Author Topic: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni  (Read 112100 times)

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Truman

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There is neither creation nor destruction, neither destiny nor free will, neither path nor achievement. This is the final truth.
Sri Ramana

Labudan

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #251 on: 02-08-2018, 13:53:17 »
eto, i Bezos je vlasnik Vašington Posta, koji napada Trampa

sve je jasno!
šta će mi bogatstvo i svecka slava sva kada mora umreti lepa Nirdala

Truman

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #252 on: 02-08-2018, 14:23:01 »
Колико год подржавао идеологију неолиберализма не могу а да не кажем да ми се гаде овакве газде као што је Безос. Апсолутно бездушно.
There is neither creation nor destruction, neither destiny nor free will, neither path nor achievement. This is the final truth.
Sri Ramana

Labudan

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #253 on: 02-08-2018, 14:24:22 »
If today in the United States or western Europe the relatively poor can have a car or a refrigerator, an airplane trip or a radio, at the cost of a reasonable part of their income, this was made possible because in the past others with larger incomes were able to spend on what was then a luxury. The path of advance is greatly eased by the fact that it has been trodden before. It is because scouts have found the goal that the road can be built for the less lucky or less energetic. What today may seem extravagance or even waste, because it is enjoyed by the few and even undreamed of by the masses, is payment for the experimentation with a style of living that will eventually be available to many. The range of what will be tried and later developed, the fund of experience that will become available to all, is greatly extended by the unequal distribution of present benefits; and the rate of advance will be greatly increased if the fi rst steps are taken long before the majority can profit from them. Many of the improvements would indeed never become a possibility for all if they had not long before been available to some. If all had to wait for better things until they could be provided for all, that day would in many instances never come. Even the poorest today owe their relative material well- being to the results of past inequality.

podržavaš ovo?
šta će mi bogatstvo i svecka slava sva kada mora umreti lepa Nirdala

scallop

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #254 on: 02-08-2018, 14:48:02 »
Koješta!
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

mac

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #255 on: 09-08-2018, 10:15:49 »

Meho Krljic

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #256 on: 09-08-2018, 13:40:05 »
“What Have We Done?”: Silicon Valley Engineers Fear They've Created a Monster

Quote
Gig-economy companies like Uber and Instacart are on the verge of overtaking the traditional economy. And the only people who understand the threat are the ones enabling it.

Meho Krljic

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #257 on: 10-08-2018, 07:59:34 »
A-ha!
New York City just voted to cap Uber and Lyft vehicles, and that could make rides more expensive

Naslov ne pominje ali se i nameće obaveza obezbeđene minimalne zarade.

Labudan

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #258 on: 10-08-2018, 22:16:16 »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grylEdBOMeI

Belloq: You and I are very much alike. Archeology is our religion, yet we have both fallen from the pure faith. Our methods have not differed as much as you pretend. I am but a shadowy reflection of you. It would take only a nudge to make you like me. To push you out of the light.
Indiana Jones: Now you're getting nasty.
Belloq: You know it's true.
šta će mi bogatstvo i svecka slava sva kada mora umreti lepa Nirdala

Truman

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #259 on: 11-08-2018, 00:37:50 »
http://www.dragas.biz/fiat-fsa-2017/

Бато, ево твог неолиберализма на српски начин. Држава и даље субвенционише ФИАТ док Талијани не плаћају што су се обавезали уговором.
There is neither creation nor destruction, neither destiny nor free will, neither path nor achievement. This is the final truth.
Sri Ramana

mac

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #260 on: 17-08-2018, 10:25:07 »
Senator Elizabet Voren će u sredu predstaviti predlog zakona "Accountable Capitalism Act"

https://www.vox.com/2018/8/15/17683022/elizabeth-warren-accountable-capitalism-corporations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accountable_Capitalism_Act

"no less than 2/5 of the directors shall be elected by employees". Amerika i Engleska biće zemlja proleterska!

Labudan

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #261 on: 17-08-2018, 13:46:59 »
In media coverage following Elizabeth Warren's Wall St Journal op-ed, the Bill was described as a plan to "save capitalism" and a "bold new plan to reshape American capitalism".

uostalom, Vorenova samo preleće sa američkog na germanski neoliberalizam, al suštinu ne mijenja.
šta će mi bogatstvo i svecka slava sva kada mora umreti lepa Nirdala

akhnaton

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #262 on: 17-08-2018, 14:00:01 »
Mda, a neupućeni su mogli da od click baita pomisle da se hram kapitalizma pretvara u reboot Radničkog samoupravljanja i da će predložiti Edvarda Kardelja za posthumnu noblesovu nagradu iz ekonomije. Šašavi ti ameri. To što će koju deceniju nakon tog "uvođenja" JuEs of Ej da pandrkne rasparčan na 50 međusobno zaraćenih država, to niko ne pominje. U stvari tamo će svako sa svakim da se bije, a sve će da počnu belci pesmom "Oj Teksasu iz tri dela, ponovo ćeš biti celaaaa" komponovanom nakon što je na Rio Grande, tadašnji guverner rekao okupljenim teksašanima "niko vas ne sme da bije"..... Ako, ako, sve će se vrne....
Politically Incorrect member of "Snage Haosa i Bezumlja"

ankh Em Maat  since 1973.

Labudan

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šta će mi bogatstvo i svecka slava sva kada mora umreti lepa Nirdala

Labudan

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šta će mi bogatstvo i svecka slava sva kada mora umreti lepa Nirdala

akhnaton

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #265 on: 21-08-2018, 11:34:29 »
Fuko? Jedan od očeva kancera koji razjeda svet? Hmm, jadan anti neoliberalizam.
Politically Incorrect member of "Snage Haosa i Bezumlja"

ankh Em Maat  since 1973.

Labudan

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #266 on: 23-08-2018, 22:00:35 »
šta će mi bogatstvo i svecka slava sva kada mora umreti lepa Nirdala

Truman

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #267 on: 23-08-2018, 23:14:00 »
Ово ми мирише на вештачку интелигенцију. Гоу гугл гоу!
There is neither creation nor destruction, neither destiny nor free will, neither path nor achievement. This is the final truth.
Sri Ramana

Labudan

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #268 on: 23-08-2018, 23:26:35 »
Ово ми мирише на вештачку неолиберализам. Гоу гугл гоу!

фиксд
šta će mi bogatstvo i svecka slava sva kada mora umreti lepa Nirdala

Truman

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #269 on: 23-08-2018, 23:47:51 »
чак не знаш ни граматику српског језика, а оћеш да учиш људи правим вредностима.  :x Погледај линк који поставих на трамп теми...шта твој идол каже о себи самом.
There is neither creation nor destruction, neither destiny nor free will, neither path nor achievement. This is the final truth.
Sri Ramana

Labudan

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #270 on: 24-08-2018, 00:12:09 »
mislio sam da sam izbriso veštačku, promaših...


Ово ми мирише на неолиберализам. Гоу гугл гоу!

фиксд!
šta će mi bogatstvo i svecka slava sva kada mora umreti lepa Nirdala

Labudan

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #271 on: 26-08-2018, 14:16:17 »
Google shuts down YouTube channels in expansion of state-directed online censorship

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/08/25/cens-a25.html
šta će mi bogatstvo i svecka slava sva kada mora umreti lepa Nirdala

akhnaton

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #272 on: 27-08-2018, 07:58:20 »
Google shuts down YouTube channels in expansion of state-directed online censorship

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/08/25/cens-a25.html

????? Ша је ово? Држава наредила цензуру? Ахахахахахахахаха, па ко тамо управља? Конгрес? Председник? Или Фукоовски деридаријанци? Ко? Ови гори него Србија бре....
Politically Incorrect member of "Snage Haosa i Bezumlja"

ankh Em Maat  since 1973.

Labudan

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #273 on: 31-08-2018, 18:12:18 »
The competitive order possesses the quality of nearly ideal social substructure for a democratic political order [Staatsordnung],for it is based upon the idea of coordinating free human beings as much as possible by intelligently taking into account psychic reactions, social rules of the game, and the order of civil law, while at the same time employing the method of subordinating men to human command and the power of planning only to the extent necessary for the protection of the order of freedom and for the prevention of typical social injustices.... A purified competitive order will have to go much further in admitting coercion and governmental control than was done in the past.

Franz Bohm, Wirtschaftsordnungund Staatsverfassung (Tiibingen, J. C. B. Mohr. 1950), p. 49.

šta će mi bogatstvo i svecka slava sva kada mora umreti lepa Nirdala

Father Jape

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Blijedi čovjek na tragu pervertita.
To je ta nezadrživa napaljenost mladosti.
Dušman u odsustvu Dušmana.

mac

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #275 on: 31-08-2018, 18:27:23 »
Bato, sve će to AI da reši. Ljudske mane sprečavaju ljude da budu dobri vladaoci, u monarhiji, u demokratiji.

Labudan

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #276 on: 31-08-2018, 18:47:49 »
"if 1% of the population controls most of the disposable wealth, what we call ‘the market’ reflects what they think is useful or important, not anybody else"

inače, nešto čačkam na ovu temu oko wikipedije, koja realno slično funkcioniše

Samo se preslikava slika svijeta iz glava onih sa najvećim kapitalom.

i zato na wiki stranici Hajeka piše da je klasični liberal

ili postoji više wiki stranica o Antarktiku koji se topi nego o siromašnima u Africi



Bato, sve će to AI da reši. Ljudske mane sprečavaju ljude da budu dobri vladaoci, u monarhiji, u demokratiji.

oće, oće, al za čiju babu?

imaš ti i sovjetsku kibernetiku al čisto sumnjam da će nju da implementiraju


danas u stvari imaš app za sve, i cilj je uvećati performanse za bilo šta

umjesto poboljšati život, učiniti ga boljim, što je sasvim druga vrsta zadatka od uvećanja performansa
šta će mi bogatstvo i svecka slava sva kada mora umreti lepa Nirdala

Labudan

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #277 on: 31-08-2018, 18:49:34 »
ima li ko iskustva s editovanjem wikipedije, oću mali eksperiment da napravim

prvo da izmijenim Cybernetics stranu, gdje u dijelu o kibernetici u ekonomiji stoji samo o Sovjetima a ne o neoliberalima

kad to izmijenim i pokažem da Hajek drvi o kibernetici, onda idem direkt na njegovu stranu i editujem jedan mali dio

cijenim da će doći do brisanja ekspresno
šta će mi bogatstvo i svecka slava sva kada mora umreti lepa Nirdala

mac

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #278 on: 31-08-2018, 23:11:35 »
Moraš da navedeš reference, ali pitanje je šta sve može da bude izvor. Vikipedisti ne primaju instrukcije od nekog neoliberalnog centra, niti ih poučavaju neoliberali u senci, pa može da se desi da ti niko ne protivureči. Moguće je i da su neki vikipedisti u službi izvesnih organizacija, ali ako ti neko zadaje muke možeš da zatražiš pomoć od drugih vikipedista, pod uslovom da ih ubediš da menjaš sadržaj u dobroj nameri i sa proverenim informacijama.
Ali mislim da je pojam neoliberala "loaded", i da čim spomeneš tu reč automatski te niko ne uzima za ozbiljno.

Labudan

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #279 on: 31-08-2018, 23:13:27 »
pa izvor je direktno Hajek

ništa tumačenja, ovi ili oni interpretativni pogledi

samo činjenica da je u par svojih knjiga i članaka spominjao kibernetiku

meni je apsurdno da nema ni slovca o tome ni na Wikipediji niti na Google Books
šta će mi bogatstvo i svecka slava sva kada mora umreti lepa Nirdala

mac

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #280 on: 31-08-2018, 23:18:19 »
Napiši nešto pa da vidimo. Vodi samo računa da to što napišeš bude relevantno sa temom. Šta ako je Hajek promašio temu kad je pričao o kibernetici? Ali neka, napiši, a ja mogu da pročitam i dam sud da li to liči na uradak vredan pojavljivanja u Vikipediji.

mac

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #281 on: 31-08-2018, 23:20:59 »
Gledam sad odeljak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybernetics#Cybernetics_and_economic_systems i vidim da nema tu mnogo teksta. Ako dodaš mnogo teksta o Hajeku biće zrelo za brisanje, ali ako dodaš dve rečenice o tome kako Hajek to vidi onda možda i neće.
A moraće neko da ti pomogne i oko engleskog jezika, jer inače tekst automatski gubi na verodostojnosti.

Labudan

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #282 on: 31-08-2018, 23:31:09 »
Naravno, i ne mislim više od 2-3 rečenice.

Šta ima tu da on promaši, zna svako šta je negative feedback

skuckaću jedan dan, sad samo pripremam


al eo npr citata

The frequent recurrence of such undeserved strokes of misfortune affecting some group is, however, an inseparable part of
the steering mechanism of the market: it is the manner in which the
cybernetic principle of negative feedback operates to maintain the
order of the market. It is only through such changes which indicate
that some activities ought to be reduced, that the efforts of all can be
continuously adjusted to a greater variety of facts than can be known
to anyone person or agency, and that that utilization of dispersed
knowledge is achieved on which the well-being of the Great Society
rests. We cannot rely on a system in which the individuals are
induced to respond to events of which they do not and cannot know
without changes of the values of the services of different groups
occurring which are wholly unrelated to the merits of their members. It is a necessary part of that process of constant adaptation to
changing circumstances on which the mere maintenance of the
existing level of wealth depends that some people should have to
discover by bitter experience that they have misdirected their efforts
and are forced to look elsewhere for a remunerative occupation.

ništa izmišljeno, sve piše

šta će mi bogatstvo i svecka slava sva kada mora umreti lepa Nirdala

Labudan

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #283 on: 31-08-2018, 23:33:12 »
The
process of adaptation operates, as do the adjustments of any selforganizing system, by what cybernetics has taught us to call
negative feedback: responses to the differences between the
expected and the actual results of actions so that these differences
will be reduced. This will produce an increased correspondence of
expectations of the different persons so long as current prices
provide some indications of what future prices will be, that is, so
long as, in a fairly constant framework of known facts, always only
a few of them change; and so long as the price mechanism operates
as a medium of communicating knowledge which brings it about
that the facts which become known to some, through the effects
of their actions on prices, are made to influence the decision of
others



eo i najluđeg

One of the most important of these self-generating orders is the wide-ranging division of labour which implies the mutual adjustment of activities of people who do not know each other. This foundation of modern civilization was first understood by Adam Smith in terms of the operation of feedback mechanism by which he anticipated what we now know as cybernetics. The once popular organismic interpretations of social phenomena, that tried to account for one unexplained order by the analogy with another equally unexplained, has now been replaced by system theory, originally developed by yet another Viennese friend, Ludwig von Bertalanffy, and his numerous followers. This has brought out the common features of those diverse complex orders which are also discussed by information and
communication theory and semiotics.
šta će mi bogatstvo i svecka slava sva kada mora umreti lepa Nirdala

mac

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #284 on: 31-08-2018, 23:37:53 »
Nemci i njihove rečenice. Čitam, i ništa mi ne ulazi u glavu.

Labudan

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #285 on: 31-08-2018, 23:45:37 »
pa kako drugačije da laže narod nego kenjajući

paz kolko sere u prvom citatu, negativna povratna sprega da se spontano pojavi, pa to ne biva

svjesno upravljanje društvom i ekonomijom, to je kibernetika
šta će mi bogatstvo i svecka slava sva kada mora umreti lepa Nirdala

mac

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #286 on: 01-09-2018, 01:35:37 »
Ček sad, pa negativne povratne sprege postoje u prirodi. Cela ekologija je šuma negativnih povratnih sprega, i nedao nam bog da uđemo u neku pozitivnu. Čovek može da bude uzrok svakakvih sprega, i pozitivnih i negativnih, i ne znajući šta čini.
A na stranici o Hajeku ima i poglavlje o "spontanom poretku", što je valjda to na šta se žališ. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Hayek#Spontaneous_order


scallop

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #288 on: 01-09-2018, 08:15:48 »
Ne znam ko nije pominjao kibernetiku. :|
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

Labudan

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #289 on: 01-09-2018, 09:21:37 »
Čovek može da bude uzrok svakakvih sprega, i pozitivnih i negativnih, i ne znajući šta čini.


al to nije kibernetika

"the scientific study of control and communication in the animal and the machine."

wiki definicija

u suštini, matematička disciplina fokusirana na problem kontrole i upravljanja

pa šta znači kiber nego krmanoš
šta će mi bogatstvo i svecka slava sva kada mora umreti lepa Nirdala

Labudan

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #290 on: 01-09-2018, 09:30:51 »
eo "spontanog" poretka!!!

šta će mi bogatstvo i svecka slava sva kada mora umreti lepa Nirdala

scallop

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #291 on: 01-09-2018, 09:33:51 »
Aman, otkriješ da kibernetika postoji i ima da nas daviš dok sve ne uveriš da ju je baš Hajek izmislio! :?
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

Labudan

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #292 on: 01-09-2018, 10:12:25 »
mnogo mi je skromniji cilj, viš da na wikipediji nema ni da je lik ikad spomenuo kibernetiku

jer onda nije slobodno tržište

propaganda klasična
šta će mi bogatstvo i svecka slava sva kada mora umreti lepa Nirdala

scallop

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #293 on: 01-09-2018, 10:23:52 »
Jebeš Wikipediju. Kibernetika samo ujednačava pristup bilo čemu. Osnovni model je input - channel - output. Recimo, meso, povrće, začini - kuvanje - jelo u tanjiru. Ono šta ti želiš je prepoznavanje modela, a ne njegovo otkriće.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

Labudan

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #294 on: 01-09-2018, 11:00:36 »
šta će mi otkriće... alo, pa kao što je mac već reko, lik laže da je za spontani razvoj tržišta, da se to potpuno slobodno razvilo, a u stvari nameće određeni model, konstantno oblikuje tržište, i čak priznaje da je inspirisan kibernetikom

to jest, ono što Franc Bem gore u citatu totalno priznaje, Hajek zakukulji u ovim svojim sumanutim rečenicama

al to je to, i čitava wikipedia laže

pa to je mrtva tačka, dok mi dođemo do modela ihahahaj
šta će mi bogatstvo i svecka slava sva kada mora umreti lepa Nirdala

scallop

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #295 on: 01-09-2018, 11:07:33 »
Ma, ne može da bude inspirisan kibernetikom. Kibernetika je samo imentovani model. U neoliberalizmu imaš cilj - sredstvo - posledice. E, pa kad praviš Ponzi dobiješ Ponzi. To je ona priča da su najbolji sirevi sa rupama. Naravno, rupe posle postanu problem.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

varvarin

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #296 on: 01-09-2018, 11:40:40 »
Jebeš Wikipediju. Kibernetika samo ujednačava pristup bilo čemu. Osnovni model je input - channel - output. Recimo, meso, povrće, začini - kuvanje - jelo u tanjiru.

To je to?  Auu...
Razmišljam da vise uopšte ne  kuvam!

scallop

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #297 on: 01-09-2018, 11:50:59 »
Nemoj ni da jedeš. Ćista kibernetika sa procesom u crevima.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

Labudan

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #298 on: 01-09-2018, 12:00:17 »
eh, kad bi to tako funkcionisalo

al Geri Beker npr tvrdi da gojaznost nije problem. Onaj ko unosi višak inputa ne treba ga korigovati ili preusmjeravati, prosto jer on troši više na tržištu hrane, one ušećerene više no organske jelte

štaviše, budući da sada troši više na hranu, kasnije će više da troši i na liječenje

dakle, tržište će da radi i u jednom i u drugom slučaju

a u oba slučaja nije stvar u negativnoj povratnoj sprezi nego pozitivnoj

i svjesno stvorenoj

isto važi i za tržište droge. Fuko npr nalazi da neoliberali sugerišu da prvi fiks umjesto da bude besplatan, kad diler daje početniku da se što prije navuče, da u stvari prvi fiks treba da bude najskuplji.

a za veterane narkomane da fiksevi budu najjeftiniji mogući. Razlog: da ne bi pljačkali i otimali kako bi platili novi fiks, uslijed bolesti zavisnosti.

naravno, izgleda da to nije i praksa, jelte, nego je i dalje prvi fiks besplatan itd...

aj sad mac da kaže da ovo nije kibernetika


poenta je da oni više ne ciljaju na iskorijenjivanje kriminala nego na kontrolisanje ponude i potražnje kriminala

ili na kontrolisanje ponude i potražnje hrane, lijekova itd

a glavni cilj se zna - neprikosnoveni ekonomski rast

šta će mi bogatstvo i svecka slava sva kada mora umreti lepa Nirdala

Labudan

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Re: Neoliberalizmi naši nasušni
« Reply #299 on: 01-09-2018, 12:03:00 »
uostalom, rekoh da čitate

http://library1.ga/_ads/2788BA428C9AD3574B1705BA18C2640C

ovo je najluđa knjiga. Lijepo imate tema koliko hoćete, svaki tekst je kratak, svako može da pročita samo ono što ga zanima i da se upozna sa ludilom

šta će mi bogatstvo i svecka slava sva kada mora umreti lepa Nirdala