Author Topic: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici  (Read 89942 times)

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Mme Chauchat

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #300 on: 18-05-2011, 17:41:21 »
Nisam, Mercedes nisam čitala uopšte, moram da priznam. Evo šta sam ubola preko Gugla za ovih pet minuta:


Quote
As for Lalasa and Tiane (gay), Rosethorn (bi), and Lark (gay), I don’t make a big deal of it because I’m not writing about being gay; I’m writing about people whose friends live their own sexual lives. What I want is for the characters’ sex lives to be their own business, not the issue around which my characters’ lives revolve. I’m also sticking fairly close to the main characters’ stories, which doesn’t leave me a lot of time/room to go into the private lives of those around them.

If I make a point of who is gay, then suddenly that’s all anyone will talk about: the gay characters. If I were writing about what it means to be gay, that would be fine, but I’m writing about the empowerment of the underdog, particularly female underdogs. Sexuality is one of those things where, once you lay it on the table, it’s all people will see.

http://tpwords.wordpress.com/category/lgbt/

Priznajem, mislila sam da je eksplicitnije nego što ona ovde kaže, ali videćemo jednog dana, kad izađe još prevoda.  :)

Nightflier

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #301 on: 18-05-2011, 18:02:01 »
Pa da, tako je kao što piše u tom citatu. Ima likova koji nisu strejt, ali to se gotovo i ne primećuje. U svakom slučaju, ta serija romana namenjena je učenju dece nekim zajedničkim vrednostima, prevazilaženju prepreka itd. Možda je nameravala da se dotakne seksualnosti u trećem kvartetu, iz kojeg je na moju užasnu žalost objavljena samo jedna knjiga.

Inače, ako ti se Tamora dopala, dopašće ti se i Mercedes.

Zanimljivo je da sam je ja otkrio istovremeno sa Martinom i da mi se čak i u poređenju sa njim veoma dopala. Naravno, ona ima i te kako prosečnih romana, ali ima i izvrsnih, uključujući i veoma dobre alternativne istorije. Nisam čitao baš sve što je napisala, ali ogromnu većinu jesam.

Inače, ona se smatra lošim piscem.
Sebarsko je da budu gladni.
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Mme Chauchat

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #302 on: 18-05-2011, 18:40:35 »
Hvala na preporuci! Čula sam za nju, ali uvek u nekom mešovitom kontekstu i do sad nikako da se odlučim na čitanje. Videćemo...

Nightflier

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #303 on: 18-05-2011, 19:11:56 »
Hvala na preporuci! Čula sam za nju, ali uvek u nekom mešovitom kontekstu i do sad nikako da se odlučim na čitanje. Videćemo...

Imaš li neki način da čitaš elektronske formate? Tablet, kindl, laptop...
Sebarsko je da budu gladni.
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Mme Chauchat

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #304 on: 19-05-2011, 10:08:03 »
Imam laptop (dobro, očigledno je da imam nekakav komp), ali on sedi kod kuće, uglavnom zajedno sa mnom  :)

Nightflier

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #305 on: 19-05-2011, 12:59:23 »
Imam laptop (dobro, očigledno je da imam nekakav komp), ali on sedi kod kuće, uglavnom zajedno sa mnom  :)

Ako ti ne predstavlja problem da čitaš sa laptopa (ja upravo ležim sa laptopom i čitam jedan ARC dok ovo kucam, a žena mi je za desktopom), mogu da ti pošaljem nešto knjiga Mercedes Leki, ili šta god hoćeš drugo, zapravo. Imaš moj mejl u profilu.
Sebarsko je da budu gladni.
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Nightflier

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #306 on: 31-08-2011, 11:06:52 »


Enter Ye Myne Mystic World of Gayng-Raype: What the “R” Stands for in “George R.R. Martin”

George R.R. Martin is creepy.

There! I said it! In days of yore, before the Striding Elves sailed West to Sygmagfhdflkglll, and giants did waylay travelers throwing stones carved from the mighty Tghfarghfr Mountains, and yon Good Queen Sady had not yet been assailed in that great war known as the Rage of Nerds, led by those black-hearted, dishonorable brigands known as the Knights of Rowling, joined later by those who would overthrow the land of Tiger Beatdown itself in the name of the Nameless King called Who — I will NEVER! READ! TIGER BEATDOWN! AGAINNN!!!! rang their rallying cry, feared of all who stood at the Gate of Twitter @ Replies — I maybe would have tried to downplay this conclusion a little.

But, nope! Today is a different day, my friends. Because here’s how it goes, when you criticize beloved nerd entertainments: You can try to be nuanced. You can try to be thoughtful. You can lay out your arguments in careful, extravagant, obsessive detail. And at the end of the day, here is what the people in the “fandom” are going to take away: You don’t like my toys? I hate you!

So, get it out of your system now, because, guess what, George R.R. Martin fans? I don’t like your toys. Deal with that. Meditate for a while. Envision a blazing bonfire in a temple, and breathe in its warmth and serenity. Then, imagine me dumping all your comic books and action figures and first-edition hardback Song of Ice and Fire novels INTO the bonfire, and cackling wildly. Because the fact of the matter is, in my ever-masochistic quest to be hip with what is happening in pop culture these days, I read the first four novels in the series. And my conclusions were: Dear God, George R.R. Martin is creepy. Quite possibly the creepiest author I’ve read in QUITE SOME TIME.

I could get into the reasons why, here. I could try to construct some kind of nuanced argument for you. I could talk about how the impulse to revisit an airbrushed, dragon-infested Medieval Europe strikes me as fundamentally conservative — a yearning for a time when (white) men brandished swords for their King, (white) women stayed in the castle and made babies, marriage was a beautiful sacrament between a consenting adult and whichever fourteen-year-old girl he could manage to buy off her Dad, and poor people and people of color were mostly invisible — or how racism and sexism have been built into the genre ever since Tolkien. I could acknowledge the plotty, cliffhangery aspects of Martin’s writing as a selling point: So-and-so was dead! But now he’s alive! But now he’s dying! But now he’s a zombie! But now he’s the Prince of Sblarghlhaar, because he was IN DISGUISE! I could try to look at the positives, before I get to the criticism. But you know what? I’m still going to criticize the books. And if these are your toys, you’re going to be mad no matter what, because criticism of your favorite things exists. On the INTERNET, no less! SCANDAL!

So why don’t we just cut to the chase, here? George R. R. Martin is creepy. He is creepy because he writes racist shit. He is creepy because he writes sexist shit. He is creepy, primarily, because of his TWENTY THOUSAND MILLION GRATUITOUS RAPE AND/OR MOLESTATION AND/OR DOMESTIC VIOLENCE SCENES. And I could write a post about those, to be sure. But you know what would be easier? I could just count them. One by one by one.

And, if you’ve gotten this far? Spoilers.

1. A Game of Thrones, or, The One That Got Turned Into A TV Show

Major Female Characters: CATELYN STARK, The Hero’s Wife; SANSA STARK, The Hero’s Prissy Daughter; ARYA STARK, The Hero’s Tomboy Daughter; CERSEI LANNISTER, The Evil Queen Who’s Fucking Her Brother; DAENERYS TARGARYEN, The Blondest Girl In The World

PLOT SUMMARY: Everything was going fine for Ned Stark, until he got promoted to be Vice President of Westeros, and his son Bran got pushed out a window. Turns out, Bran was peeping on the Queen’s royal fuck times. They were with her brother, gross! Bran is now in a Soap Opera Coma. Regardless, Ned and his daughters have to move to the capital of Westeros, where there is a dark fuck-times-related mystery which he must investigate. Intrigue ensues. Meanwhile, Bran awakes from his Soap Opera Coma. He has Soap Opera Amnesia! And is paralyzed! How will he ever tell anyone about the queen’s fuck times now? Ned is still with the intrigue. After approximately 700 pages of intriguing, Ned solves the mystery. Turns out, the queen was having royal fuck-times with her brother. Which we found out 700 pages ago. But still! Ned is shocked at this illicit use of royal fuck times! He is going to expose this corruption! Ned promptly gets his head chopped off. Meanwhile, in an apparently unrelated plotline, The Blondest Girl In The World hatches some dragons.

FEMALE CHARACTER SCORE CARD:

Meet Catelyn! She’s a dutiful, obedient wife and mother. Also, her husband is the hero. She will, therefore, be a sympathetic figure. Catelyn’s an all-around swell gal, and seems pretty sharp and competent, too, except when she is (a) getting all hysterical and non-functional because HER CHILDREN, (b) stupidly kidnapping members of the royal family on a whim because HER CHILDREN, and (c) being a total bitchface to Ned’s illegitimate son because he is not HER CHILDREN. Remember, kids: Women are meant to be wives and mothers. Also, they are meant to be kept away from sharp objects and heavy machinery at all times. Because they are always thinking with their baby-makers! Oy!

Meet Sansa! She’s 13. She likes gossip and parties and pretty dresses and handsome boys. We are meant to believe that, for these reasons, Sansa completely sucks and deserves everything that’s coming to her. Which is unfortunate, because what’s coming to her is inadvertently betraying her entire family for her crush Prince Joffrey and/or learning in the final pages of the book that Joffrey enjoys beating girls up and threatening them with rape. Sansa’s entire plot, from this point forward, will consist of an ongoing competition to molest Sansa, in which every male character in her immediate vicinity will participate. Ha ha, serves you right for being such a girl, Sansa!

Meet Arya! She’s 9. Arya is not girly. She likes her Dad and swords and wolves and rough-housing. For these reasons, she does not suck as much as Sansa, because girly things suck and we hate them, right? Nothing sexist there, for sure! Arya trains to be a sword-fighting ninja. She’s going to be fine.

Meet Cersei! Cersei is fucking her brother. She also hates her husband, King Robert, and won’t ever give him the good sex. Sooner or later, she schemes to kill him and/or Ned. Oh, coincidentally? King Robert beats Cersei up. One slap that we see, a long history of beatings disclosed by Cersei. Never mind, though. She won’t give him the good sex. Also, she talks sometimes. Totally worth a slapping.

Meet Daenerys! Oh, brother. Here is my problem: I really want to like Daenerys. She’s molested by her brother; she’s sold, at 13, into “marriage” with a grown man; she emerges from all this as a hardcore warlord, and one of her first actions is to ban rape, and I really want to like that particular story. And yet, there are these two leeeetle problems. Problem One: CREEPY PEDO SHIT. Despite being effing terrified of her grown-assed adult husband, we’re led to believe that Daenerys really gets off on being fucked by the guy. At least, at first. Subsequently, he maybe rapes her a little. But then they fall in love, so that’s fine. Again: DAENERYS IS 13 YEARS OLD. We are treated to several graphic, eroticized scenes of a 13-year-old child “having sex” with and “falling in love” with a grown man. In other words: Creepy pedo shit. But even if you got rid of that, you would still have to deal with Problem Two: BLATANT MOTHERFUCKING RACISM. Daenerys, you see, has been exiled to “the East,” where everyone has “bronze skin” and “almond eyes” and is “savage.” Her husband, Drogo, is pretty much modeled on Genghis Khan. The Easterners’ religion is mystical and magical and barbaric, the way religions from “the East” tend to be when white people make them up, and at their weddings, they engage in “savage dances” and public gang rapes. When they win a battle? ALSO public gang rapes, surprisingly. The savage mystical barbarous brown Eastern people: Always gang-raping! And Dany, as The White Lady In These Scenes, has to educate them that rape is wrong. So when your Daenerys scenes are NOT composed of Creepy Pedo Shit, they are comprised of Enlightened White Savior Shit and/or How Will I Ever Communicate With These Superstitious Natives Shit and/or After Our White Women Shit. What I’m saying is, I want to like Daenerys. But her scenes? They are shit. They are shit. They are shit some more. And then there are dragons.

2. A Clash of Kings, or, The One That Was Really Boring

MAJOR FEMALE CHARACTERS: CATELYN STARK, The Hero’s Mother; SANSA STARK, The About-To-Be-Molested; ARYA STARK, Sword-Fighting Ninja Runaway; CERSEI LANNISTER, The Evil Queen Who Fucked Her Brother; BRIENNE, Ser Restrictive-Beauty-Standards; DAENERYS TARGARYEN, The Chosen Blonde.

PLOT SUMMARY: What’s more interesting than medieval battle tactics? If you answered “LITERALLY EVERYTHING,” you’re going to hate A Clash of Kings. So, anyway, it turns out that Recently Headless Ned had a variety of sons who did not get pushed out of windows. One of them is Robb, and he wants to be King of Mystical Dragon Land! But Cersei has a son, Joffrey. He is the current King of Mystical Dragon Land! So Robb has to overthrow Joffrey, but also, Dead King Robert had brothers, who have figured out that Cersei’s babies were caused by illicit, brother-in-law fuck-times. And you’re not going to believe this, but Brother One (Renly) and Brother Two (Stannis) BOTH want to be King of Mystical Dragon Land! Then there’s Daenerys. She, too, wants to be Queen of Mystical Dragon Land, but is currently side-tracked, what with her being worshiped by various non-white populations. And yet! Robb had a foster-brother, Theon, who comes from a disgraced house of Viking equivalents. Theon is convinced that Viking equivalents should be the Kings of Mystical Dragon Land! Who will emerge victorious as the One True King of Mystical Dragon Land? I sure hope you didn’t want an answer to that, because it turns out there are like five more books in this series. Meanwhile, in an apparently unrelated plotline, Headless Ned’s other son Jon is fighting zombies.

FEMALE CHARACTER SCORE CARD:

Catelyn is a dutiful mother to Robb. Since she mostly focuses on attaining a man’s goals for him, rather than assuming leadership or decision-making power for herself, she remains competent and non-hysterical.

Arya is being taken away to safety by the Night’s Watch. It doesn’t work out. She gets kidnapped! She escapes! She runs away! She gets kidnapped! She escapes! She runs away! There’s an interlude of particularly gratuitous rape-threatening. Then she gets kidnapped! WILL SHE ESCAPE? Yes! Other likely events include: Running away! You guys, Arya will be fine.

Cersei: Still evil, not currently being beaten by her husband.

Daenerys is still in “the East.” Refreshingly, we learn that there is more than one skin tone in “the East,” and in Mystical Dragon Land; somewhat less refreshingly, we learn that everyone in the East is still very mystical and decadent and barbaric and Orientalist-stereotypey, and they are still cultural Others, and they all have racialized/Other-ized names like “Pyat,” “Xaro Xhoan,” and “Jhogo,” as opposed to Dragon Land names like “Ned,” “Catelyn,” and “Jon.” Also, the Other-ized Easterners seem kind of unsettlingly eager to worship the little blonde foreigner. So, there’s that.

Meet Brienne! She’s ugly. So, so ugly. If you saw her, what you would think would be: “She’s ugly.” Catelyn feels super-sorry for her, because of how ugly she is. Very, is how ugly she is. Also? She’s the only female knight that we’ve met thus far. Because female competence can only evolve in the absence of sexiness, or if you are a nine-year-old girl. Did you know that most of the women in the Fortune 500 are in fifth grade? Well, that is because I just made that up! Go with it. Anyway, Brienne is a knight because she has a crush on Renly, and this was the only way to get close to him, because he’s hot, and she is, as previously stated, an uggo. Also, Renly’s gay. And recently dead. Really, this relationship is doomed on any number of fronts. Meanwhile,

Who’s Molesting Sansa Stark? Thus far, the leading contender would appear to be Prince Joffrey, who has his men beat her up, strip her naked in front of him, and then beat her up some more for his amusement. Strong showing from bodyguard Sandor Clegane, however, who climbs into her room and plans to rape her! He changes his mind, however, thus yielding the field to Joffrey once more.

3. A Storm of Swords, or, The One Where Everyone Is Dead

Major Female Characters: CATELYN STARK, The Hero’s Mother; SANSA STARK, The Perpetually-About-To-Be-Molested; ARYA STARK, The Frequently Kidnapped; CERSEI LANNISTER, The Queen Who Used To Fuck Her Brother; BRIENNE, Ser Self-Destructive-Dating-Patterns; DAENERYS TARGARYEN, Hail The Conquering Whitey.

PLOT SUMMARY: Oh, man. This thing is 1,500 pages long, so take a deep breath. When last we visited Mystical Dragon Land, there were approximately 900 candidates for King. You know what that means? Yup. Time to die, everyone! Renly? Dead. Theon? Apparently dead. Robb? He’s doing fine, except for the fact that he pissed off that old dude whose daughter he was  supposed to marry, but that’s a fairly minor slip-up and I’m sure it won’t… oh, shit, that old dude killed him! Robb is dead!!! Catelyn is dead! SO MANY PEOPLE ARE DEAD! Anyway, that leaves Daenerys, Stannis and Joffrey, and since Stannis’s forces are decimated and Daenerys is currently busy conquering every single Eastern civilization she can get her hands on, I guess Joffrey is the undisputed King of Mystical Dragon La… oh, shit! Joffrey’s been poisoned! Joffrey is dead! But we all know that the power behind the throne is Cersei’s dad Tywin, so this shouldn’t disrupt… OH MY GOD CERSEI’S DAD IS DEAD??? I guess that means… whoa, that means Cersei is in charge of everything! Woo-hoo! I’m sure we won’t be given any unfortunate, sexist lessons on the evils of irrational/slutty/catty/bitchy female leadership. Especially now that Catelyn has emerged… as a vengeful zombie!!! Meanwhile, in an apparently unrelated plotline: The 9,000 other characters in this book.

FEMALE CHARACTER SCORE CARD:

Catelyn, unfortunately, attempts to do something in this book: Setting the Queen’s captive brother/boyfriend Jaime free, under Brienne’s guard, in exchange for HER CHILDREN (subset: Sansa and Arya). Like all independent Catelyn operations, it immediately backfires. Later, she gets hysterical and rips her own face off because of HER CHILDREN (subset: Robb), tries to avenge HER CHILDREN (subset: Robb), and dies. Sorry, Catelyn! You know bad things happen when you try to do stuff! Try to be more careful next time. Because there will be a next time. Because you are now a zombie.

Arya is still getting kidnapped. And escaping. And running away. And getting kidnapped. And escaping. And… you know what? Arya’s going to be fine. Let’s not check in with her again unless something changes.

Brienne gets her own plot line. Or, rather, JAIME, the queen’s brother-boyfriend, gets a plot line with Brienne in it. In this plot line, we learn that Jaime — recently seen pushing a seven-year-old child out of a window — is really a good guy, at heart! He’s just in really, really into having consensual royal fuck-times with his sister! That’s not so creepy, right? Yeah, no, it’s creepy. Anyway, we learn that Brienne is valorous, honorable, and pure of heart. We also learn that George R. R. Martin’s favorite thing to do with Brienne is to surround her with guys who attempt to gang rape her, at which point, she requires rescue. By Jaime. The guy who pushes kids out windows. On whom she now has a crush. Yeah, I KNOW.

Cersei is evil, eeeeeevil. How do we know she’s evil? She’s consensually fucking more than one dude, OBVS. Also, she’s saying things like “that time you betrothed me to a guy when I was a kid, and then I had to sleep with him even though I didn’t want to? That was basically rape” and “there’s no reason I shouldn’t be allowed to exercise power just because I’m a woman” and “nobody has any problems if a DUDE sleeps around, but when I do it it’s somehow the most damning evidence against my character” and “given the patriarchal slant of our society, sometimes I wish I was a guy!” So, just to be clear: The only female character who consistently levies an institutional critique of sexism in these books? Evil. Eeeeeevilllllllll! You surprised?

Daenerys: Oh, here we fucking go. Daenerys, you see, has discovered that the mystical, barbaric cities of the Orient have one particularly barbaric custom of which she disapproves heartily. That custom? Is slavery. And so, Daenerys must save these other cultures from themselves, by going city to city and systematically destroying them, imposing her own standards upon them all. Here’s a problem, though: We, the European and/or American readers, also know slavery to be a bad thing. And here is how we know this: White people enslaved people of color. For generations. We brutalized people of color, we institutionalized the rape of people of color, we committed genocide against people of color, we devastated the cultures of people of color. And here is how we white people rationalized that: We told ourselves that these people of color were barbaric, that they were savages, that European standards should be universal, and that we were saving these people from themselves. So, for those keeping track: The rationale behind Daenerys’s campaign to abolish slavery? IS THE RATIONALE THAT CREATED SLAVERY. Daenerys: Mystic Dragon Land’s leading producer of UGH.

Who’s Molesting Sansa Stark? A very competitive round, here! Joffrey, the returning champion, is still in the lead here, until a stunning second-quarter turnaround, in which Sansa is force-married to Tyrion “Raging Dinklage” Lannister himself! Tyrion gets total boners thinking of Sansa, who is STILL 13 YEARS OLD, but refuses to actually rape her (what a guy), and Joffrey is cleared from the field with poison! My god! It’s anyone’s game now! Sansa escapes the castle, and… could it be that NO-ONE is going to molest Sansa this season? What an upset! Wait, no, who’s that I see… why, it’s Littlefinger, that wormy guy from the first book! After a brief fumble in which one of Littlefinger’s servants attempts to rape Sansa and nearly takes the goal, Littlefinger emerges as a clear winner, as he instructs Sansa that he intends to care for her as a father, and then totally Frenches her! Wow! A thrilling conclusion to a great game of Who’s Molesting Sansa Stark! Be sure to tune in next installment, for more long-running plots constructed entirely around child molestation.

4. A Feast for Crows, or, I’m Sorry I Forgot To Write The Next Installment Of My Book

MAJOR FEMALE CHARACTERS: BRIENNE, Ser Author’s-Excuse-For-Feminism; ARYA STARK, She’s Going To Be Fine; CERSEI LANNISTER, The Evil Queen Who Broke Up With Her Brother; SANSA STARK, The Still-Being-Molested-After-Four-Solid-Books; ARIANNE MARTELL, The Filler Content. Special Guest Appearance by ZOMBIE CATELYN.

PLOT SUMMARY: This is the book that got them mad. The one that dropped all the central plot threads, resolved none of the cliffhangers, and cut out all of the “important” characters and “fan favorites,” instead focusing on some side characters no-one really cares about. And here’s a startling revelation: The side characters no-one cares about? Were the women. Daenerys is gone, but otherwise, it’s the girls who got left over. And yes, they are boring as hell. Brienne is trying to find Sansa, which consists of wandering around asking people if they’ve seen Sansa. Arya has finally found refuge, and is training to be an assassin, which consists of wandering around in spooky caves. Sansa’s with Littlefinger. You know what’s going on with Littlefinger. The only real semblance of a plot consists of what’s going on with Cersei, who has claimed the throne for herself. Meanwhile, in an apparently unrelated plotline: The plotline. But no worries! The afterword says that the sequel will be out in a year! Wait! What’s that you say? This afterword was published… in 2004?

FEMALE CHARACTER SCORE CARD:

Brienne is wandering around all “have you seen Sansa?” No-one has. You know what they HAVE seen, though: An exciting opportunity to threaten Brienne with gang rape some more! So, that happens. As usual. Brienne fights them off and/or is rescued by the nearest male, until she is eventually captured and possibly killed by Zombie Catelyn. Catelyn is mad at Brienne for setting Jaime free and going off to look for Sansa and Arya. Which is… what Catelyn told her to do? Turns out, Zombie Catelyn is an even less effective strategist than Regular Catelyn. And you thought it couldn’t happen!

Arya is training to be an assassin. She’s going to be fine. She’s always fine. She’s…. oh, shit, they blinded her? Darn.

Who’s Molesting Sansa Stark? Littlefinger. Still. It’s gross, and Stockholm-Syndrome-y, and he keeps calling himself her father, and… oh, my God, can we please move on?

Arianne Martell is a princess of Dorne, where they believe in equal inheritance. Girls inheriting shit! Boys inheriting shit! Everybody’s inheriting, in the wacky land of Dorne! Arianne is sassy and strategic and sexy and other s-words, and she has a plan to place Cersei’s daughter on the throne and thereby run shit, which seems alarmingly non-sexist. Fortunately, this is A Song Of Ice and Fire, so she promptly fucks up, gets everybody on her side killed, and is imprisoned, at which point her father shows up to tell her he has a much smarter plan which she must now go along with. Women: Don’t come up with your own plans! Ever! Remember the sad example of Zombie Catelyn! Or, for that matter,

Cersei Lannister. Cersei is Queen. Cersei, as Queen, wants to run shit. But, guess what? It turns out that she’s just too slutty and irrational and bitchy and catty to do it right. Surprise! Cersei’s always fucking dudes, and being mean to dudes, and making decisions out of personal preference and emotion rather than logic, and refusing to bone her brother (which is now… bad? Look, it’s a complicated story), and it turns out she’s just really insecure because her seven-year-old son’s thirteen-year-old wife might be prettier than she is, and basically, what you need to know is, the woman who’s spent the past three books scheming her way into dominating an entire continent becomes an incompetent, screeching harpy the moment she actually exercises power. Women bosses. Am I right?

FINAL SCORES:

NOVELS READ: Four.

FEMALE CHARACTERS: As of Book 4, eight women have had chapters written from their point of view. Six of those women have had long-running, major plotlines. Those six female characters are Cersei Lannister, Catelyn Stark, Arya Stark, Sansa Stark, Brienne, and Daenerys Targaryen.

PERCENTAGE OF MAJOR FEMALE CHARACTERS ABUSED, RAPED, or THREATENED WITH SAME: “Abuse,” in this scenario, means “physical partner violence,” because if we had to count everyone with a dysfunctional family, the list would never end. So, as of Book 4, the major female characters who have been abused, raped, molested, or threatened with same are: Cersei Lannister, Daenerys Targaryen, Brienne, Arya Stark, and Sansa Stark. That is five out of six, or about 83%. The only major female character to go without a single rape, attempted rape, sexual assault or incident of partner violence? Catelyn Stark. Who, as you may recall, is dead. And a zombie.

BONUS POINTS — SYMPATHETIC RAPISTS AND WIFE-BEATERS: Sure, fine, this is a little startling. But those rapists and abusers are all villains, right? Joffrey, Littlefinger, Daenerys’s child-molester brother, etc; these are bad guys. Ah, but not so fast! King Robert, lovable but ineffectual ruler whose death kicks off the series, beats his wife. The Night’s Watch, an honorable band of brothers devoted to defending the world against zombies, is largely comprised of convicted rapists. The Dothraki are portrayed as an entire civilization of dedicated, enthusiastic rapists, because racism; Khal Drogo, Daenerys’ beloved husband, gives a speech about it. The Ironmen, Viking equivalents, are another entire civilization of gang-rapists. Victarion Greyjoy, a heroic old Ironman, beat his ex-wife to death for cheating. Sandor Clegane, who planned to rape Sansa, gets a late-stage character redemption. And then, we have Tyrion Lannister. Hero Tyrion Lannister. Fan favorite Tyrion Lannister. Author favorite Tyrion Lannister. Who has, to date, participated in the gang-rape of his first wife, gotten boners for his 13-year-old second wife, and strangled his favorite prostitute for bad behavior.

PERCENTAGE OF MAJOR FEMALE CHARACTERS WHO ARE LITERALLY CHILDREN: Sansa Stark, Arya Stark, Daenerys Targaryen; 50%.

PERCENTAGE OF FEMALE CHILDREN SEXUALLY ASSAULTED or THREATENED WITH SAME: Sansa Stark, Arya Stark, Daenerys Targaryen; 100%. Arya is threatened with rape only once; Daenerys and Sansa are successfully molested by multiple characters. Daenerys falls in love with one of her molesters (Drogo) and Sansa gets a crush on one of hers (Sandor Clegane).

A NOTE ON ARRANGED MARRIAGE and CHILDREN: Yes, it’s true; in Ye Olde Medieval Europe, female tweens were oft wed to the grown-ups. A Song of Ice and Fire is known for being “gritty” and “authentic,” so really, aren’t I just objecting to the realism? Reader, here are the things that George R. R. Martin changed about Ye Olde Medieval Europe, when he set out to write A Song of Ice and Fire: Religion. Geography. History. Politics. Zombies. Werewolves. Dragons. At one point, when asked why his characters were taller, healthier, and longer-lived than actual Medieval people, George R. R. Martin explained that human genetics and biology do not work the same way in Westeros as they do in the real world. So George R. R. Martin considered that he could change all of that while maintaining “authenticity.” Here’s what he left in, however: Institutionalized pedophilia. So:

WHERE WILL YOU END UP IN MYSTICAL DRAGON LAND? If you are an unmarried woman, it is 100% certain that you will be raped or experience attempted rape (4/6: Arya, Sansa, Daenerys, Brienne). If you are married or engaged, there is a 75% chance that your husband or fiancee will beat or sexually assault you (3/4: Sansa, Cersei, Daenerys). If you are an adult woman who exercises authority, you will be killed (Catelyn) or imprisoned (Cersei), because your attempts to exercise said power will backfire (Catelyn, Cersei). If you are a child who exercises authority, you will not be killed or imprisoned, and will be seen as competent (Daenerys). It helps if your subjects are cultural Others, in which case your superiority is assumed (Daenerys). As with all female children, however, you will be sexually assaulted (Arya, Sansa, Daenerys). If you have a traditionally male role, with traditionally male skills, you will merely be threatened with rape (Brienne, Arya); if you are traditionally feminine, or occupy a traditionally feminine role, attempts to sexually assault or beat you will be successful (Sansa, Cersei, Daenerys). If you are the rare character who is an adult, occupies a position of authority, exercises power, and has not been sexually assaulted or beaten by her partner (Catelyn), don’t worry: You’re not getting out of this story alive.

VERDICT: George R.R. Martin is creepy.

YOU: Can be as mad about that as you want. It will still be true.
Sebarsko je da budu gladni.
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Mme Chauchat

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #307 on: 31-08-2011, 11:12:16 »
Quote
Brienne gets her own plot line. Or, rather, JAIME, the queen’s brother-boyfriend, gets a plot line with Brienne in it. In this plot line, we learn that Jaime — recently seen pushing a seven-year-old child out of a window — is really a good guy, at heart! He’s just in really, really into having consensual royal fuck-times with his sister! That’s not so creepy, right? Yeah, no, it’s creepy. Anyway, we learn that Brienne is valorous, honorable, and pure of heart. We also learn that George R. R. Martin’s favorite thing to do with Brienne is to surround her with guys who attempt to gang rape her, at which point, she requires rescue. By Jaime. The guy who pushes kids out windows. On whom she now has a crush. Yeah, I KNOW.

 :| Najstrašnije je što je ovo potpuno tačno. A ja svejedno obožavam taj podzaplet.

Джон Рейнольдс

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #308 on: 31-08-2011, 11:52:49 »
Ne vidim u čemu je problem što se Brijana zaljubljuje u Džejmija. Ona ne zna da je ovaj gurnuo dete, pa se komentar autora može protumačiti samo kao puko moralisanje.

Džejmi je do "zahlađivanja" odnosa sa sestrom bio odličan lik, veliki junak, kontroverzna ličnost, ali težak ljigavac i degenerik (kao uostalom većina Lanisera, što je takođe sjajno). Međutim, njegova potonja razmišljanja i premišljanja nikako ne idu uz čoveka koji hladnokrvno gurne dete da pogine. Martin se našao na klizavom terenu, ali pošto nije to jedini problem serijala, već on polako pada u čabar po više nivoa, nije ni bitno.

Obrni-okreni, može se ispostaviti da je bolje bilo da je Brenov pad bio slučajan - hteo bolje da vidi kresanje, pa se okliznuo. Ovako je Džejmijev lik od prvog trenutka zapečaćen i njegove nedoumice u vezi s nadimkom koji nosi u senci su Brena.
America can't protect you, Allah can't protect you… And the KGB is everywhere.

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Josephine

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #309 on: 31-08-2011, 21:04:00 »
Quote
he maybe rapes her a little
xrofl

Martina sam uzela iz biblioteke u nekom razredu gimnazije. Gledali se knjiga i ja, gledali se crni konjanik u snegu i ja, gledali se poglavlja i ja. I na kraju sam odustala. I nikad se nisam pokajala.

Ne gledam ni seriju.

Nightflier

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #310 on: 31-08-2011, 21:05:38 »
Martina sam uzela iz biblioteke u nekom razredu gimnazije.

Fak mi sajdvejz! Osećam se matoro...
Sebarsko je da budu gladni.
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Джон Рейнольдс

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #311 on: 31-08-2011, 21:13:06 »
Pa, da. Što bi čitala, bolje je da pišeš.

Nego, kad si ti to završila gimnaziju? "Igra prestola" je izašla 2003. i ne verujem da je u školske biblioteke mogla da dođe pre 2004.
America can't protect you, Allah can't protect you… And the KGB is everywhere.

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Josephine

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #312 on: 31-08-2011, 21:17:29 »
Džone, dušo, opet si mi za vratom. Ima tamo i drugih učesnika foruma.

Ne sećam se tačno, ako nije bila gimnazija, bilo je neposredno nakon njenog završetka. Uzela sam ga u vršačkoj biblioteci, brat mi je preporučio, a sva moja školska sećanja na čitanje vezana su za tu biblioteku. No, povremeno sam svraćala i kada sam bila na faxu, vikendom.

Svejedno je. Ima lepših i pametnijih štiva za uživanje.

Джон Рейнольдс

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #313 on: 31-08-2011, 21:29:10 »
Gle, sad ti ne odgovara pažnja i interesovanje. Lepo sam te pitao kad si to završila gimnaziju jer ako sad imaš tridesetak godina, gimaziju si (teoretski) završila krajem devedesetih, pa mi je bilo čudno kako sad Martin u školskoj biblioteci... Pet-šest godina kasnije?
America can't protect you, Allah can't protect you… And the KGB is everywhere.

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Josephine

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #314 on: 31-08-2011, 21:33:47 »
Pa ne odgovara kada počinješ već ofucanom uvredom (ko je nekulturan sad?)... Idem da spavam. Ljubac.

The Thing

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #315 on: 02-09-2011, 13:23:09 »
Quote
Brienne gets her own plot line. Or, rather, JAIME, the queen’s brother-boyfriend, gets a plot line with Brienne in it. In this plot line, we learn that Jaime — recently seen pushing a seven-year-old child out of a window — is really a good guy, at heart! He’s just in really, really into having consensual royal fuck-times with his sister! That’s not so creepy, right? Yeah, no, it’s creepy. Anyway, we learn that Brienne is valorous, honorable, and pure of heart. We also learn that George R. R. Martin’s favorite thing to do with Brienne is to surround her with guys who attempt to gang rape her, at which point, she requires rescue. By Jaime. The guy who pushes kids out windows. On whom she now has a crush. Yeah, I KNOW.

 :| Najstrašnije je što je ovo potpuno tačno. A ja svejedno obožavam taj podzaplet.

Mislim da nije baš tako.

*SPOILER za prve četiri knjige (petu još nisam čit'o)!  :lol:*

Stvar sa Džejmijem je što on, isprva, nije lik koji mnogo razmišlja, već koji samo dela. On je toliko fizički superioran da će samo uraditi prvu stvar koja mu padne na pamet i neće dozvoliti da ga bilo kakve skrupule ili moguće posledice zadrže. Čak je suviše ponoson da bilo kome pravda svoje postupke (ubistvo Erisa - jedini put kada to uradi je kada je grozničav i teško povređen) i odbija da oseća bilo kakvo kajanje zbog njih.

Tek kada bude osakaćen on počinje da se menja. "Ruka koja drži mac" je ono što je njega definisalo do tada, i kada jednom izgubi desnicu on započinje introspekciju i shvata da nikad nije bio ništa više od čoveka "čija je čast - sranje". Naravno, presudni su i interakcija sa Brijenom, koja stavlja život na kocku samo da bi ispunila dato obećanje, kao i momenat kada se suoči sa svojom stranom u Beloj knjizi.

Dakle, tek kada postane bogalj, i kada više nije u stanju da sam ubije svakoga ko mu se ne dopadne on pokušava da osmisli svoj život na drugi način - tj. pokušajem da povrati svoju davno zasranu čast. I nigde se u knjigama naravno ne insinuira da je on sad "good guy". To što on pokušava da bude dostojan Lord zapovednik kraljeve garde je sasvim druga stvar.
A što se Brena tiče, mislim da svi zaboravljaju kako se taj događaj tačno odigrao. Džejmi prvo uhvati Brena, podigne ga, pogleda sestru, pogleda dete i sa gađenjem kaže: "things I do for love", i tek onda ga gurne. Taj čin njemu uopšte nije bio mio.

Brijena ZNA da je Džejmi gurnuo Brena (bila je tu kada ovaj prizna Ketlin), ali ju je ovaj ipak spasio u dva navrata, ispričao joj za Erisa, priznao je za dostojnog ratnika i dao joj sopstveni mač. Sasvim dovoljno da ona razvije izvesnu simpatiju za njega kad se uzme u obzir kroz šta su sve zajedno prošli.
Dalje, ovaj zaboravlja da napomene da i Brijena spase Džejmija (kada gurne onu stenčugu na njihove progonioce), jednako kao i on nju, kao i činjenicu da sama, uz neznatnu Podrikovu pomoć ubije tri brave companions-a, a kasnije i još jednog, možda i najgoreg od svih. Da ne pominjemo što je na Renlijevom turniru propisno izmlatila većinu svojih "udvarača" kao i da se SAMA spasila od silovanja tako što je Houtu odgrizla uho. Dakle, nije ona uopšte tako bespomoćna ali to je, naravno, prećutano ovde jer ne ide u prilog retardiranoj poenti teksta koji je jedno najobičnije, detinjasto karikiranje i izvrtanje činjenica zarad dokazivanja glupe poente, koju svako ko je malo pažljivije čitao knige može da ospori bez ikakvih problema.
Šta sad, svet inspirisan dark middle agesom treba da bude politički korektan i bezazlen? Ja Martina i volim baš zato što je "creepy", zato što u njegovom svetu likovi bivaju prodani, silovani, osakaćeni, zlostavljani, ubijeni... da nije tako, ne bih ni čitao. Uloga žene u tom periodu je, nažalost, bila takva kakva je bila - i zašto je sad problem prikazati kako je to izgledalo? A sem toga, Martin ima sasvim dovoljno ženskih likova koji odstupaju od tih nekih stereotipova, tako da nema realnog razloga za negodovanje. I nije uopšte istina da je neka grupa posebno diskriminisana, svi podjednako pate, i muško i žensko i staro i mlado i zapadno i istočno.

дејан

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #316 on: 09-09-2011, 12:55:40 »
нема оног клањајућег смајлија... :(

има кинез...али није то исто
...barcode never lies
FLA

The Thing

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #317 on: 09-09-2011, 19:47:57 »
Pa, hvala! Drago mi je da se neko slaže.

Josephine

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #318 on: 09-09-2011, 19:57:46 »
Eh, samo da je rečenicu

Quote
Uloga žene u tom periodu je, nažalost, bila takva kakva je bila - i zašto je sad problem prikazati kako je to izgledalo?

napisao na početku, pa da na vreme prestanem da čitam... :(

Stipan

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #319 on: 10-09-2011, 09:03:42 »
Grešiš! Martin je fantastičan pisac. Potraži "Kraljeve peska" i "Portrete njegove dece".
Kad to pročitaš ponovo razmotri "Igru prestola"...

ridiculus

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #320 on: 10-09-2011, 10:57:45 »
Kao da je Martin puno bolji prema muškim likovima...  :roll: Stara dobra Kejtlin Stark je svojim postupcima uzrokovala mnoge nesreće, ali je takođe i stari dobri Ned Stark svojim ne-postupcima uzrokovao mnoge nesreće.

Jedna stvar se svakako nije promenila od srednjeg veka: napad na "dela umetnosti" sa moralnog stanovišta. Ovaj tekst koji je Nightflier ljubazno preneo jedan je od glupljih koje sam čitao u poslednje vreme. U umetnosti nije najbitnije o čemu se govori, već KAKO.
Znate... u početku beše Šala, i Šala beše...itd

Melkor

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #321 on: 07-11-2011, 12:42:06 »

Posted on November 6th, 2011 by Sherwood Smith             
by Sherwood Smith


The Crystal Ceiling: Is there still a distinction between “women’s” and “men’s” fantasy and horror?

I  found it interesting, and disappointing, that the panel participants were all women:  Kate Elliott, Charlaine Harris, Nancy Kilpatrick, Jane Kindred, and  Malinda Lo.I don’t know how many men volunteered, who picked the  panelists, whether it was a man or a woman, but when I walked into that  panel and saw all women getting up on the podium, I thought “Here’s our  conclusion before a word is spoken.”

C.H. talked about the  organization Sisters In Crime. They count reviews, as they have found  that male writers consistently get reviewed far more frequently than  female writers, and by a significant ratio. They contact magazines and newspapers to make them aware of this fact.

K.E. spoke of an  article she read recently in which a woman in Australia, who was looking  at the content of reviews, observed that “Men’s work can be flawed but  still important. If women’s work is considered flawed, that it can’t be  important.”

C.H. mentioned an encounter with somebody at which  she was told that she was lucky to have such good sales. She went away  from that thinking, “Is it possible that I have good sales because I’m a  good writer?”

N.K. said it is far worse for women in the horror field.

Question: is there a difference between men and women’s fantasy and horror?

C.H. said yes. It begins with cover choices, marketing, and pay.

At  that point, K.E. made what I thought was the most significant contribution to the entire panel. This is something that she has talked about on her LiveJournal from time to time, and that is that the male gaze is still the default cultural point of view. That means, whenever men look at is important, from persons to politics to entertainment. It is important for everybody. Whatever women look at is for women, of lesser significance.
Her daughter went to a museum where quilts were on display. The information made it clear that the female quilters were considered craftspersons.  Lo and behold, among the many displays by female quilters,  there was one by a man. His quilts were labeled as “art” quilts. In subsequent discussion about this topic on my blog the other day (substantively the same post, but some very interesting discussion in the comments) it became clear that there is a distinction between quilts made for art and those intended to be used, but still. The only art quilt was one made by a man? Really?

Anyway, back to the panel, which was pretty much personal experience corroborating this observation about the male gaze being considered the default authority. Males are expected to point out what’s important; men tend to take up more personal space than women. (Notice my post illo, taken from a medieval drawing.)

That male gaze thing certainly holds  true in fantasy. Even when women write epic fantasy on a large scale,  covering the same sorts of subjects that male writers do, the male  writers are interviewed, they are consulted when the subject of fantasy  comes up, their works are reviewed everywhere. Very few women get that  sort of attention–we can just about name them all.

The  conclusion of the panel was not a downer, however. Everybody agreed that  one of the ways to change things is to use our voices, and the media  available to us. Talking about women’s work, its significance, its  entertainment value, and who might enjoy it if you like X, Y, or Z, and  linking to interesting discussions, is one way of getting the word out  about books that are otherwise ignored by the standard media.

Therefore I invite you to discuss this topic, but also, if you’ve read a good book in spec fic written by a woman, a book you haven’t seen reviewed everywhere, mention it here! Let’s get some discussion going! I’ll start. I’m in the middle of Rae Carson’s debut Young Adult Fantasy, The Girl of Fire and Thorns. The sixteen-year-old heroine is a princess who is married off to a neighboring king for reasons she slowly discovers before adventure takes her by surprise. She’s smart and wow, I  have to force myself to put this book down or I’d get nothing done.
"Realism is a literary technique no longer adequate for the purpose of representing reality."

Melkor

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #322 on: 27-11-2011, 17:22:28 »
How women are winning sci-fi's battle of the sexes

Say farewell to the Barbarella stereotype as rise in female authors drags genre into 21st century


For a generation of science-fiction and fantasy readers who grew up with heroic male leads and women cast, all too often, in the role of scantily clad, Barbarella lookalikes and sidekicks, it is nothing less than a revolution. Whereas the sci-fi market has been dominated by novels written, mainly, by men for men, a series of bidding wars has erupted between publishers eager to secure novels by women.

In the most recent skirmish, Lauren Beukes's new book, The Shining Girls, which features time travel, was secured last month by HarperCollins for a six-figure sum. Similarly, Karen Thompson Walker's The Age of Miracles, about a giant earthquake which knocks the world off its axis, slowing down time, was bought earlier in the year by Simon & Schuster for almost £500,000. And Deborah Harkness's historical fantasy, A Discovery of Witches, has been the toast of recent international book fairs.

Such large advances are increasingly rare, even for established mainstream authors, and virtually unheard of in the sci-fi and fantasy genre. Experts suggest the deals signal a shift in attitude towards the genres by major publishers, which have in the past been accused of genre-snobbery.

Publishers say they are now receiving many more manuscripts from female authors writing sci-fi. Gillian Redfearn, at Gollancz, the biggest UK publisher of sci-fi and fantasy, said: "Far more women are submitting their manuscripts... and they are often really fantastic. I think, on the whole, we had seen fewer manuscripts from women than men because men write them and think, 'oh, this is brilliant', and send them in. Women write manuscripts and think: 'oh, I need to revise it, it needs to be perfect'. We took on a debut by Elspeth Cooper earlier this year: it took her 10 years – not just to write – but to submit her novel. Within two weeks she had deals in the UK, US, France and Germany."

Women writers have always had a strong presence in sci-fi and fantasy fiction – Mary Shelley's Frankenstein is one of the first examples – yet they have often been over- shadowed by male counterparts. Until 1960 only 1,000 stories published in sci-fi magazines by around 200 female-identified writers had been documented – making up just 10 to 15 per cent of contributors. Many women authors used male pen names to help their cause.

Earlier this year, accusations of sexism were levelled at the British Fantasy Society (BFS) after a collection of interviews with 16 horror writers failed to include a single woman.

Lauren Beukes believes the image of women in sci-fi epitomised by films such as Barbarella and the "orgasmatron" are in the past. "The stuff I was reading in my teens were books like the Dragonlance Chronicles, and there were really strong female characters in those... There is more of a stage now for female writers."

Ally Condie

Crossed

The second in a trilogy, Crossed, out in the UK next week, is a young adult romance set in a dystopian future. Disney bought the rights to film the trilogy before the books were even written.

Elspeth Cooper

Songs of the Earth

The first instalment of The Wild Hunt trilogy was completed after Cooper was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in 2004.

Cinda Williams Chima

Heir Trilogy

The fantasy writing of the best-selling author from Ohio is said to have been influenced by her fortune-telling grandmother and Celtic magical beliefs.

Lauren Beukes

Zoo City

South African Beukes won this year's Arthur C Clarke Award, the UK's top sci-fi prize. Judges said it showed "stunning imagination to produce a world recognisably ours and obviously different."
"Realism is a literary technique no longer adequate for the purpose of representing reality."

Melkor

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #323 on: 16-12-2011, 04:40:02 »
                    Gender Bias, Case Number #219067     by Mondyboy                   
   On the latest episode of Live and Sassy*, Jonathan Strahan, in responding to a question from Alisa Krasnostein, says that a lazy default for any sort of anthology or collection should be a 30% – 70% split.  That is 30% female and 70% male.  He goes onto emphasise that this is the lazy default and that really a well read editor should get much closer to a 50 / 50 split.**
A few days ago, Gardner Dozois released his Table of Contents for the Year’s Best SF29.  Of the 35 stories featured, 7 of them are by women.  That’s a 20% / 80% split.***
Now, in the three minutes of google searching I’ve done there doesn’t seem to be much discussion in regard to the gender disparity of Dozois’ Years Best.  There may be a few reasons for this.  For one the TOC was only announced… what… 4 days ago… and it does take a little bit of time for the hive mind that is the Internet to absorb the news.  There’s also the chance that the people who usually note this sort of thing are tried of having to be the ones to stand up and say, “here we go, another example of female SF writers being ignored.”
And then there’s the fact that the anthology is edited by Gardner Dozios and it might be seen as a career limiting move – from a writers perspective at least – to bite the hand that has the potential to feed.****
But, the fact this collection does not meet the lazy default***** is something we should be talking about.  When I was younger, reading Gardner’s Years Best was the primary way I discovered what was going on in the field.  It also acquainted me with the works of so many different and exciting writers like Doctorow and Stross and Reed and Kessel and Bishop and Kage Baker (the only female author who sprung out at me at the time).  Even with the introduction of more Years Best collections on the market, the Dozois is still an influential resource.  And as a result it needs to be doing so much better when it comes to gender.
Sill, rather than yell and scream I thought I’d do something constructive and point out a few SF stories from 2011 written by woman which I thought were worthy of featuring in anyone’s Years Best:
 
  • Nancy Fulda, “Movement,” Asimov’s Science Fiction MagazineMarch
  • Rachel Swirsky, “Diving After the Moon” Clarkesworld – February (though some might debate the SFnal content of this piece)
  • An Owomoyela, “Frozen Voice” ClarkesworldJuly 2011
  • Nnedi Okorafor, “The Book of Phoenix (Excerpted from The Great Book)” ClarkesworldMarch 2011
  • Caitlin R Kiernan, “Tidal Forces”, Eclipse Four
  • Kate Wilhelm, “Music Makers”,  Fantasy & Science FictionMay/Jun
  • Ellen Klages, “Goodnight Moons”, Life on Mars
  • Nnedi Okorafor “Wahala”, Life on Mars
*A podcast that’s really beginning to hit its stride.  This episode, in particular, is recommended listening for anyone interested in the future of bookstores and the book as a physical object.
** You really you should listen to the podcast to hear exactly what Jonathan said.
*** It looks like that meeting the 30% / 70% split has been a struggle for Dozios over the last five years.
**** And I don’t blame people for remaining quiet.
***** Or for that matter Charles Stross who states that a 30% / 70% split is the minimum he requires before he will feature in a collection or anthology.  (He also requires 10% of the authors to be of a different race).
 
"Realism is a literary technique no longer adequate for the purpose of representing reality."

Father Jape

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #324 on: 06-04-2012, 12:27:00 »
Reko da okačim ovo, možda će nekog zanimati.

Dakle, na doktorskim studijama na Filološkom postoji predmet koji se zove Savremene studije kulture. Sad, ja ga nisam izabrao, ali dobijam obaveštenja u vezi s njim. Ukratko, teta koja to drži ima pored ovog predmeta gomilu obaveza, pa se često desi da drugi profesori upadnu da drže po jedno predavanje o njima bliskim oblastima. Pa tako:


U okviru Savremenih studija kulture II, profesor dr Novica Petrović održaće u subotu, 7. aprila i u subotu 21. aprila od 11 sati u Sali za sednice, predavanja na temu "Motiv mizoginije u književnosti"-jedno iz "ženskog", drugo iz "muškog" ugla.

Sala za sednice je ono gde je Gul branio doktorat. Dakle iz hola stepenice levo, prvi sprat, pa na njemu odmah desno.
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Josephine

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #325 on: 06-04-2012, 17:47:04 »
Možda dođem ja. Hvala lepo. :)

Father Jape

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #326 on: 09-04-2012, 13:28:43 »
Quote
Na molbu onih kolega kojima je profesorka Marković tada zakazala ispit, profesor dr Novica Petrović će predavanje zakazano za 21. april pomeriti na 28. april u 11 sati.
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Nightflier

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Melkor

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #328 on: 04-04-2013, 14:18:45 »
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2013/apr/04/feminist-all-male-clarke-prize-shortlist?CMP=twt_fd

Quote
The running gag for some years now has been that the industry has had a Highlander approach to women who write SF: there can be only one, at least on contract.

Quote
I am not, however, of the view that the industry is rife with sexism – at least not on an individual basis (the wider cultural context might be another issue)
"Realism is a literary technique no longer adequate for the purpose of representing reality."

Nightflier

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #329 on: 11-07-2013, 20:28:21 »
http://torbooks.co.uk/2013/07/10/sexism-in-genre-publishing-a-publishers-perspective/

Tor submissions inbox
 
Women
 
Men
Historical/epic/high-fantasy
33%
67%
Urban fantasy/paranormal romance
57%
43%
Horror
 
17%
 
83%
 
Science-fiction
 
22%
 
78%
 
YA
 
68%
 
32%
 
Other (difficult to categorise)
 
27%
 
73%
 
Total
 
32%
 
68%
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Father Jape

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Nightflier

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #331 on: 13-07-2013, 15:23:52 »
Okej, ubedio me je da pročitam "Jedra". Odustao sam negde na početku, tako da nisam stigao do rečene bamf keve.
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Nightflier

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D..

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #333 on: 30-07-2013, 13:43:21 »
Quote
http://youtu.be/sW8AQZBBJlk

Slatke su. Ovako ću i ja jednog dana...  :D

Father Jape

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #334 on: 09-11-2014, 09:55:57 »
Na povezanu notu:
https://twitter.com/saladinahmed/status/531302728463843328

"Yes, people of color were a relatively rare sight in medieval Europe. So were kings. Hasn't stopped people from writing fantasy about THEM."

:lol:
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Nightflier

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #335 on: 09-11-2014, 14:03:22 »
Što je em glup argument, em suštinski netačan. Možda je donekle važio u eri Hauarda i Lavkrafta, a možda se da na tome zameriti i Tolkinu, ali kada je o epskoj fantastici reč ta priča je odavno prevaziđena - dapače, još osamdesetih godina. Ahmedov problem je u tome što misli da fantastika počinje od njegove generacije.
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Nightflier

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Re: Mizoginija i feminizam u savremenoj fantastici
« Reply #336 on: 08-04-2015, 06:33:13 »
Zanimljivi komentari Stiva Stirlinga na FBu. Naime, njegov roman Islands in the Sea of Time je reprintovan 30. put. Izneo je podatak da je prvi print bio 5000 primeraka, što je uobičajeno za roman (tada) manje poznatog pisca objavljen u mekom povezu, dok je 2500 komaTa negde uobičajen reprint. Za ovu temu je bitno to što je Stirling svojevremeno bio u svađi sa Džimom Bejnom iz Bejn Buksa zbog toga što je protagonista ove trilogije crnkinja & lezbejka. Stirling je na kraju vratio avans i preneo knjigu u ACE (čini mi se).

Ovo je zgodna ilustracija odnosa autora i izdavača, naročito kada je izdavač Bejn, inače jedna od retkih nezavisnih izdavačkih kuća, pri tome jasno politički profilisana udesno. Međutim, taj isti Bejn je izdavač i Bižolove, koja je imala i biseksualne junake u romanima koje je objavljivala za njih, a i Erika Flinta, koji je izrazito socijalistički pisac (i aktivista).
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Nightflier

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Nightflier

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