ZNAK SAGITE — više od fantastike — edicija, časopis, knjižara...

vidim da nemamo topik o ovom filmu, a čini mi se da ga zaslužuje.

ja sam bio mrtav ladan prema ovome sve dok nedavno nisam video trejler, koji me je naveo na pomisli da bi ovo moglo biti znatno pametnije i uzbudljivije od onog smor-festa, batman beginsa, koji je za mene 1 od najbezveznijih i najglupljih high-profile filmova po stripu.

sad, kritike su pretežno hvalospevne, a hit ledžer je, po svemu sudeći, zaista dao životnu ulogu u filmu (jel bilo već slučaja da neko posthumno dobije oskara - mislim, ne za životno delo i sl, nego baš za konkretnu ulogu-režiju itd?)

a evo, vidim vesti, razbucao i na blagajnama:

   
'Dark Knight' sets weekend record with $155.34M

"The Dark Knight" took in a record $155.34 million in its first weekend, said Dan Fellman, head of distribution for Warner Bros., which released the "Batman Begins" sequel.

That topped Hollywood's previous best of $151.1 million, set by "Spider-Man 3" in May 2007.

Nista ne znaci, ali: http://www.imdb.com/chart/top?tt0468569

Nemam sad vremena... film je skroz o.k., malcice predug, imam neke zamerke ali nisu mnogo krupne,  Hit Ledzer je odlican!

Svud gde se okrenem na netu svi ga hvale, a  pritom ne mislim na sajtove o filmovima.

No, bitnije od toga, Ghoulu se nije dopao Batman Begins?! :gasp shock pancakes:  :o

Zabavan film. Ima malo Killing jokea, malo Long Halloweena, malo odstupanja, ali koga briga... Ledger je, sto bi mladi rekli, isporucio. Doduse, imao je i odlicnu masku, ali shavatam zasto ljudi pricaju da mu je ovo zivotna uloga. Uhvatio sam sebe kako razmisljam da je steta sto nece moci da glumi u nastavku. Bejl mi je i dalje antipatikus (a jos tuce i majku i sestru!).
Moracu jos jednom da ga gledam da bi mi se misli razbistrile, i to kod kuce na nekom dvd ripu. Odvikao sam se od bioskopa potpuno. Toliko da mi je smetala sva ona gomala ljudi oko mene i da me je to u par navrata dekoncetrisalo u pracenju filma.
Zabavan film.

e odgledah,ovo je potpuno drugaciji Betmen nego sto sam ocekivao od ostalih nastavaka..film je manje vizuelno stripovski vise je priblizno akcioni film..dobro je izreziran,vrlo dobro privlaci paznju svakog gledaoca,ovaj Dzoker je car koja legenda,zalim sto ga vise necemo videti njegove naredne uloge,podsetilo me je na "Vranu" sa Brendon Lijem jedna vrsta uklete maske :cry:  Toliko je dobro glumio kao da je bio u drogiranom stanju  :shock: moguce je  da je umro od onih lekova droga ko zna sta..u svakom slucaju cu jos jednom odgledati  :!:

Mene je žena sinoć odvukla u Dom Sindikata.

Dakle, ja sam prestao od ovakvih filmova da očekujem išta što bi bilo iole problematično za prosečnog osmogodišnjaka, kako na intelektualnom, tako i na vizuelnom planu i u tom smislu Dark Knight je tipičan film za svoj žanr. Zaplet je toliko prepun rupa da kroz njih može da prođe Titanik, vizuelno, Betmen je i dalje lutka koja bi nas naterala u napad smeha a ne u napad drhtavice, da ga sretnemo u mračnoj ulici (raskopčana šlica) a gluma je komično hipertrofirana. Sigurno su u pitanju moji nezemaljski visoki standardi ali priče o tome da je Heath Ledger ovom ulogom zaslužio oskara su, da tako kažemo, grossly exaggerated. Ledger žešće preglumljuje, mada mu je maska dobra, i nikad mi nije bilo jasno zašto se u Holivudu smatra da psihotike treba glumiti tako što se kreveljiš i neubedljivo 'ludački' smeješ. Enivej, Ledger je svojevremeno (dok je bio živ, najverovatnije) tvrdio da se za ulogu pripremao čitajući Murov Killing Joke, ali njegov Džoker mi je i dalje slabiji od Nikolsonovog koji je uspeo da liku udahne dovoljne doze infantilnosti, džentlmenstva i ubilačke strasti da bude uverljiv.

Da se razumemo, Ledžerov Džoker u Dark Knightu je svakako bolji od Bejlovog Betmena. Ja Bejla volim i mislim da je kao Bruce Wayne on vrlo dobar izbor. Ali kad god je u prvom filmu bio u kostimu imao sam utisak da sam odjednom počeo da gledam crtani film. I to retardiran crtani film.

Ni ovde stvari nisu mnogo bolje. Nolanu svaka čast, ali stvarno mislim da je problem ako svaki put kad se Betmen pojavi na ekranu ja dobijem nesavladiv napad smeha. Delom je to stvar režije: Betmena skoro ni jednom ne vidimo kako hoda, ili pravi bilo koji gest koji bi normalni ljudi pravili u svakojakim situacijama, većina njegovih scena su 'ikoničke', artificijelne, namerne da protagonistu prikažu kao, jelte, superheroja i sve to, ali to čak ni u stripu uglavnom ne može da prođe na duže staze (ja volim kad u stripu vidim Betmena u 'normalnim' pozama i situacijama jer to podseća da je ispod kostima SAMO čovek. Čovek sa strahovitom voljom i intelektom i sociopatskim problemom, ali čovek) a u filmu ume da iritira.

Delom je to stvar i glume jer Bejlov pedofilski šapat (kojim govori uvek kad je u kostimu) malo prejako šalje poruku - a koja bi ipak trebalo da je suptilno sugerisana - da je Betmen jedan težak ludak kome ne biste dali dve nacrtane ovce da čuva. Ovo je problem jer film uopšte ne igra na ovu kartu i koliko god poenta o Dark Knightu (heroju kakvog Gotam, kvaran kakav je, zaslužuje) bila centralna za završnicu filma, Betmen NIJE prikazan kao čudovište i psihotik, što je opet u oštroj koliziji sa Bejlovom glumom...

Dalje, imam problem sa koreografijom borbi. Nolanu svaka čast, ali ako je u prošlom filmu potrošio onoliko vremena da nam pokaže Wayneov nindža trening, zašto su mu borbe koreografisane kao da su tuče u kafani? Pogotovo što u kostim zaista možete da stavite svakoga, pa i Džeta Lija i da dobijete zaista spektakularnu borbenu koreografiju. Stvarno priželjkujem da sledećeg Betmena režira Takashi Miike....

E, sad, ovo sve ispada kao da sam ja užasno nezadovoljan filmom, ali zapravo, ovo su sve stvari koje sam ja očekivao od njega, tako da me je zapravo, film prilično pozitivno pogodio. Scenario je interesantan, jer i pored rupa u zapletu varira nekoliko interesantnih motiva  - na primer kontrast između Harvija Denta, javnog heroja, belog viteza i Betmena, heroja koji se skriva, mračnog viteza. Jedan od njih je heroj kakvog Gotam ne zaslužuje ali mu je potreban, drugog Gotam zaslužuje, jelte.

Dalje, Dentova karakterizacija ja, iako karikirana, prilično dobro razrađena i Nolan vrlo uspelo vodi film tako da gledalac prolazi kroz identičan misaono-emotivni proces kao i Bruce Wayne, shvatajući da ga Dent, iako privatno iritira, kupuje svojom energijom i čestitošću.

Dalje, u filmu se gine i to pošteno. To treba pozdraviti. S obzirom da sam navikao da u stripovima body count ne znači ništa jer se par epizoda ili godina kasnije čak i likovi koji su bili pregaženi valjkom, spaljeni a zatim razbijeni u atome ponovo pojavljuju, lepo je videti da je Nolan u ovom filmu uspeo da smrti nekih od likova učini tako da izgledaju zadovoljavajuće konačne i da to ima svoju emotivnu težinu.

Dalje, Džoker, pored sve moje kritike, ima zanimljivu priču koju priča. Mislim da ona nije dobro realizovana u filmu jer njegov nihilizam i odbijanje da prihvati da deli istu realnost sa ostatkom sveta ne deluju dovoljno konzistentno, ali ovde treba imati na umu da to ni u stripovima poslednjih šezdeset godina nikada nije delovalo do kraja konzistentno, tako da su Nolanovi i Ledžer verovatno uradili najviše što se moglo.

Plus, film jeste mračan u smislu da iako u određenm smislu dobri momci na kraju ipak trijumfuju, ovo je zaista pirova pobeda, odnosno pobeda koja samo podcrtava svu težinu rata koji se nastavlja. Što je prilično zadovoljavajuće za gledaoca.

Sve u svemu, ne naročito dobar FILM ali solidan superherojski pokušaj.

Zaboravih da pomenem da verovatno najbolju ulogu u filmu ostvaruje Gari Starac. Uzdržan, bez kreveljenja, a ekspresivan i uverljiv.

Ali ja opet nisam imao osecaj da gledam Gordona na velikom platnu. To je i dalje Garavi Oldmen, samo nosi brkove.

Meni generalno smeta u svim modernim filmskim verzijama što je Batman više oklopljen nego "kostimiran".

Ledzer veoma dobar, isporucio je drugog interesantnog negativca u filmovima o Betmenu. I to je opet Dzoker, nazalost ovaj ne ostavlja kez na mrtvima. Deluje uznemiravajuce, nepredvidivo, pokretima i dikcijom. Cenim kada prikaza u prasnjavom ljubicastom sakou izazove nelagodu. Led.
Ostale uloge ne odskacu posebno, premda je podela dobra.
Osim toga, film nista ne valja. Na momente, cini se da Nolan pokusava da imitira Mana, ili sam barem pozeleo da isti ovo snimi, gledajuci scene - mada, nije dovoljno imati kolorit, potrebno je dati ton, a to jedino uspeva u Ledzerovim scenama. Jer film maltene i nije sastavljen, to su samo nabacane nekakve akcione scene bez kraja i konca - agonija koju sam u poslednjem satu prozivljavao u stolici moze se porediti sa onom gledanja ratova zvezda, ili, nedajboze, gospodara prstenova. Prema scenariju rezija deluje kompetentno, tipicna Holivudska papazjanija - iz tacke A doci cemo neocekivano do tacke B, po cenu da tacka B ponisti tacku A a do tada postane tacka C na kojoj pise da je tacka B. Odnosi pucaju, suludo je brojati rupe. Betmenov glas...moralo se to bolje resiti. Takodje, dizajn Dentove polovine pripada vise Bartonovom Betmenu. Strci.
Scena sa nestankom olovke dobro ilustruje nestanak eksplicitnosti kao umetnickog, ne-eksploatatorskog sredstva.

Quote from: "cutter"to su samo nabacane nekakve akcione scene bez kraja i konca - agonija koju sam u poslednjem satu prozivljavao u stolici moze se porediti sa onom gledanja ratova zvezda, ili, nedajboze, gospodara prstenova. Prema scenariju rezija deluje kompetentno, tipicna Holivudska papazjanija - iz tacke A doci cemo neocekivano do tacke B, po cenu da tacka B ponisti tacku A a do tada postane tacka C na kojoj pise da je tacka B. Odnosi pucaju, suludo je brojati rupe. Betmenov glas...moralo se to bolje resiti. Takodje, dizajn Dentove polovine pripada vise Bartonovom Betmenu. Strci.

ODLIČNO!

A kako bi trebalo da bude režiran? I ko da ga režira?

Teo Angelopulos, Vim Venders, DŽim Džarmuš, Nikita Mihalkov, Lars fon Trir, Jirži Mencl, Kusturica...?

Zar ne pomenuh da mi je zalicio na imitaciju Majkla Mana? Vec smo govorili o klimi komisija koja moze, uz nekompetentnu reziju i standardno idiotski scenario da napravi savrsenu oluju. Nemam nista protiv da iskljucim mozak ponekad, al ovde dosta pricaju, a ja ipak pazim...
Ne mozemo prenebregnuti pitanje ekonomske isplativosti, zarade i uslova da ovo bude pusteno na sto vise projektora.
Ali ako to ostavimo po strani, voleo bih da se time pozabavi neki Azijat, zasto da ne i kao suprotnost turskim ratovima zvezda. Ili Evropljanin. Ali poenta nije u tome da Ameri nemaju dobre rezisere i scenariste, poenta je u USLOVIMA - i sticanju istih -recimo, nemogucim izmestanjem fransize u drugu kinematografiju. Mogao bih nabrojati znacajan broj rezisera, scenarista, nacina pristupa, zelja i pozdrava...ali to je za neku fantasy temu. Kada bi se savladala ta klima straha od/i litigacije i uvredjenosti, ne mislim da bi "nasilniji" Betmen bio manje gledan, naprotiv. I ne mislim da je tako nesto nemoguce postici, tu klimu promeniti.
Problemi ovog filma su mnogo veci od pukog PG-13 sakacenja. Predugacak je, lose reziran, scene akcije i dijaloga su prosto nasivane jedna na drugu, i napisan (najbolje recenice su srecom date Dzokeru) i dobro, na trenutke odlicno, glumljen.
Meni je zao sto je nakon PRESTIZa napravio, i brat mu napisao (doduse, ne sam), ovako los film.

Quote from: "cutter"Zar ne pomenuh da mi je zalicio na imitaciju Majkla Mana? Vec smo govorili o klimi komisija koja moze, uz nekompetentnu reziju i standardno idiotski scenario da napravi savrsenu oluju. Nemam nista protiv da iskljucim mozak ponekad, al ovde dosta pricaju, a ja ipak pazim...
Ne mozemo prenebregnuti pitanje ekonomske isplativosti, zarade i uslova da ovo bude pusteno na sto vise projektora.
Ali ako to ostavimo po strani, voleo bih da se time pozabavi neki Azijat, zasto da ne i kao suprotnost turskim ratovima zvezda. Ili Evropljanin. Ali poenta nije u tome da Ameri nemaju dobre rezisere i scenariste, poenta je u USLOVIMA - i sticanju istih -recimo, nemogucim izmestanjem fransize u drugu kinematografiju. Mogao bih nabrojati znacajan broj rezisera, scenarista, nacina pristupa, zelja i pozdrava...ali to je za neku fantasy temu. Kada bi se savladala ta klima straha od/i litigacije i uvredjenosti, ne mislim da bi "nasilniji" Betmen bio manje gledan, naprotiv. I ne mislim da je tako nesto nemoguce postici, tu klimu promeniti.
Problemi ovog filma su mnogo veci od pukog PG-13 sakacenja. Predugacak je, lose reziran (prosto sivanje scena akcije i dijaloga) i napisan (najbolje recenice su srecom date Dzokeru) i dobro, na trenutke odlicno, glumljen.
Meni je zao sto je nakon PRESTIZa napravio, i brat mu napisao (doduse, ne sam), ovako los film.

Ti hoćeš nasilnije filmove o Betmenu!? Nisi za PG 13 ?

Hoćeš da azijati režiraju??? Pa da, znaju oni šta su super heroji i kako to treba. Setimo se azijatske superheroine - pčelice Maje. I Godzila je super heroj. Amerikanci, oni pojma nemaju.

Ipak si ti pobrkao neke stvari - Betmen je omiljeni lik i heroj DECE pre svih! Pa onda i starijih koji su pričice o njemu zavoleli kad su bili deca.

Betmen nije Petak 13, Masakr motornom testerom ili Hostel pa da mu treba da bude nasilniji!

Kako ono kažu - ne uči oca kako se prave deca.

Ne uči amerikance kako se pravi superherojski film, čak ako si azijat.

Pretpostavicu da nisi trol.
Stoga, procitaj moja pisanija koliko puta je potrebno da se razbrcis.
Zatim, pozabavi se bavljenjima Betmenom u popularnoj kulturi.
Ali u pravu si, reci da Azijati mogu uciti Amerikance kako se pravi superherojski film bi bilo isto kao reci da ih mogu uciti kako se pravi vestern.

Zar nije Pcelica Maja nemacki projekat?

Vaistinu nemacki

http://www.diebienemaja.de/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_the_Bee

Joker will appear in Super Max (sort of)
July 23rd, 2008
Author Kevin Melrose



Marvel's not the only one planting Easter eggs in superhero movies.

The Dark Knight screenwriter David S. Goyer, who penned the Green Arrow-goes-to-prison movie for Warner Bros., tells MTV.com that audiences will catch a glimpse of The Joker — if in name only.

"His name is a throwaway. He's on a cell," Goyer says. "You don't actually see him, just his name on a cell. It's a real Easter Egg. That's one cross-pollination we would stay away from [doing more with]."

The film, which has been referred to as Super Max, Supermax and, simply, Green Arrow, takes place in a penitentiary for supervillains in the DC Universe. That means on opportunity for Goyer to use a variety of DC bad guys. Also: Amanda Waller.

Quote from: "Usul"Vaistinu nemacki

http://www.diebienemaja.de/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_the_Bee

Usule, jel ti čitaš tekstove na koje daješ linkove?

Perhaps the most popular and widely known adaptation of the story is the anime television series みつばちマーヤの冒険 (Mitsubachi Māya no Bōken, "The Adventures of Maya the Honeybee"). Originally aired on Japanese TV in 1975, the anime has been dubbed into numerous languages and screened on television in various territories, including Australia, Germany, the United States, South Africa, Portugal, Canada, Belgium, France, Latin America, Israel, Iran, Italy, Greece, Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Slovenia, Bosnia, Slovakia, Spain, Serbia, Finland, Poland, Croatia, Hungary, Russia, Turkey, Lebanon as "Zena", and Iran as "Nikoo" (نیکو). The Japanese TV series was preceded by Tokyo Kodomo Club's musical play based on the short story, presented as Mitsubachi Māya ("Maya the Honeybee"), distributed on a LP album.

Dakle, ona Maja o kojoj govorim(o) NIJE nemački projekat, bez obzira na podrijetlo. I Hajdi je Japanka.

Pa kad tražiš da čitam pažljivije:

Quote from: "cutter"Zar ne pomenuh da mi je zalicio na imitaciju Majkla Mana? ma isti je film ko Poslednji Mohikanac - plagijat  Vec smo govorili o klimi komisija klima komisija? nisam bio tu kad ste govorili, kakva se komisija klima, ko klima komisiju? koja moze, uz nekompetentnu reziju ma šta zna taj Nolan o režiji?! standardno idiotski scenario ma u USA samo idioti pišu scenarije da napravi savrsenu oluju. a ne Savršenu oluju je Volfgang Peterson snimio! Nemam nista protiv da iskljucim mozak ponekad, ne isključuj mozak i kad pišeš o filmu  al ovde dosta pricaju, a ja ipak pazim...
Ne mozemo prenebregnuti pitanje ekonomske isplativosti, zarade i uslova da ovo bude pusteno na sto vise projektora. projektori su krivi za sve
Ali ako to ostavimo po strani, voleo bih da se time pozabavi neki Azijat, Azijat - Kurosava recimo, ali on je umro?! zasto da ne i kao suprotnost turskim ratovima zvezda. turski SW zaslužuju omaž  Ili Evropljanin. Ali poenta nije u tome da Ameri nemaju dobre rezisere i scenariste, poenta je u USLOVIMA - i da, oni nemaju dobre uslove!  sticanju istih -recimo, nemogucim izmestanjem fransize u drugu kinematografiju. Mogao bih nabrojati nemoj da nabrajaš  znacajan broj rezisera, scenarista, nacina pristupa, zelja i pozdrava...ali to je za neku fantasy temu.  e ako je to neka fantazija, može Kada bi se savladala ta klima straha od/i litigacije i uvredjenosti, ne mislim da bi "nasilniji" Betmen bio manje gledan, naprotiv. I ne mislim da je tako nesto nemoguce postici, tu klimu promeniti. Betmen sa motornom testerom?
Problemi ovog filma su mnogo veci od pukog PG-13 Podgorica br13?
sakacenja. Predugacak je, lose reziran, scene akcije i dijaloga su prosto nasivane jedna na drugu, još nisu smislili da ih ređaju jedne preko druge i napisan (najbolje recenice su srecom date Dzokeru) i dobro, na trenutke odlicno, glumljen.
Meni je zao sto je nakon PRESTIZa napravio, i brat mu napisao (doduse, ne sam), ne, svastika, zaova i jetrva mu pomažu i šurnjaja. ovako los film.

Mislim da je Cutter ipak velikim delom u pravu. I ja sam spomenuo da bi bilo zanimljivo videti azijski tejk na Betmena, pogotovo što u stripu već imamo nekoliko takvih, od kojih jedan trenutno izlazi:

http://www.upps-sajt.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=786&Itemid=48

i mora se priznati da je vrlo zanimljiv i osvežavajući. Ostalo što je Cutter napisao o komisijama, PG-13, nekompetentnoj režiji (iako je meni Nolan jedan od boljih režisera in biznis videti moj komentar na režiju scena sa Betmenom), skarabudženom scenariju, uglavnom mogu da potpišem. Jedino se razilazimo po pitanju glume, bojim se, jer je meni Ledger definitivno preglumljen i prekarikiran...

Zaista bi bilo zanimljivo videti ozbiljan film o Betmenu, makar u rangu Dark Knight Returns, ali to Holivud, izgleda ne može da snimi.

neće Holivud to da snimi

Što mu izađe na isto.

možda, ali sam hteo da se to "ne može" oslobodi prizvuka nemoći i impotencije.

mogu oni da snime šta god hoćeš, ali zašto bi?
da bi udovoljili meni i tebi koji zahtevamo ozbiljnije filmove o superherojima - sigurno ne.

takođe mogu da dovedu koga hoćeš iz evrope ili azije da im snimi betmena. verovatno za manje pare od nolana.

ali pravo da ti kažem, zabrinjavajući broj holivudskih producenata koje sam upoznao na superherojske filmove već od početka gleda kao na neozbiljne i uopšte ne vide u čemu je potencijal za nekakvu "umetničku nadgradnju" tih filmova. za njih su to dečija posla za namicanje para. nužno zlo. radije bi snimali filmove po tolstojevim i de lilovim romanima, nemoj da misliš. ali ti filmovi ne donose para koliko jebeni Betmen. ili Spajdermen.

i zato će ga raditi kao titograd 13, i biće šareniša i sapunice, i preterivanja u glumi, zvučnih glumačkih i rediteljskih imena koji prodaju film iako možda ne briljiraju, i šta god još zatreba.

razmisli, uostalom. ti si upravnik, takoreći chairman, neke velike kompanije. recimo, warnera. imaš prava na betmena, i procena tvojih saradnika i analize tržišta i konkurencije pokazuju da ne bi bilo loše snimiti nastavak.

na šta ti kažeš, "ajde da uzmemo nekog japanca da napiše scenario, i da bude nasilnije, a da režira ovaj mali iz Koreje što je režirao Chaser".

nemojte me zajebavati.

Quote from: "Alex"Dakle, ona Maja o kojoj govorim(o) NIJE nemački projekat, bez obzira na podrijetlo. I Hajdi je Japanka.

A po čemu bi to prepoznao, Alex, sem ako se ne baviš genealogijom? Pretpostavimo samo za trenutak da je vizuelna prepoznatljivost anima (animea, kako god) u krupnim očima likova. Onda bi ti bio jedini čovek na kugli zemaljskoj koji tvrdi da mongoloidna rasa ima najkrupnije oči  :lol: . A tek ženske ... visoke, vitke, velikih grudi, plavokose...   :!:  Ne, upravo uspeh anima na Zapadu se i sastoji dobrim delom u toj neprepoznatljivosti, simboličnom prikazivanju, jer bi likovi zaista mogli biti i sa Zapada, vizuelno (ali nije to bilo u nameri autora, drugi put više o tome).
Drugo, Maja je japansko-nemačka ko-produkcija (he, he, stari su to saveznici :wink: ).
Treće, spominješ Takahatinu Hajdi? Pa upravo je odlika tog režisera i njegovog učenika Miyazakija da čine likove Ljudima, ne Amerikancima, Nemcima ili Japancima, kakvo god da je njihovo poreklo, ili nikad ne bi mogli biti popularni u svetu kao što jesu.

Nisam gledao novog Betmena, još. Ali da sledećeg radi neko sa Istoka, ne bih imao ništa protiv. Nekad je dobro videti stvari iz drugog ugla.

Quote from: "Meho Krljic"Stvarno priželjkujem da sledećeg Betmena režira Takashi Miike....

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! :x  :x  :x  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:
Sorry, Meho, morao sam. Inače nisam poznat kao ljubitelj Miikea, da se zaključiti. Jedino mi se dopala Audicija. Ali, naravno, bilo bi glupo kada bismo svi voleli potpuno identične stvari.

nije ovde rec o nerealnim mastarijama, vec korisnoj raspravi o nacinima na koji se nesto moze uraditi - gledanje preko tarabe ucinilo je cuda za vestern, npr. nesporno je da novi blokbasteri dobro zaradjuju, cak i ako se ne slepuju na slavi predaka. ne mozemo ignorisati to da se tim koji zaradjuje ne menja.
takodje, ja sam pomenuo eksplicitnost, koja naravno ne znaci da ocekujem klanje i creva na podu, niti je sinonim za nasilje (koristio sam i navodnike). pogledajmo, recimo, serijal "umri muski" - u najnovijoj inkarnaciji brus vilis nije smeo ni da opsuje, kamoli da zapali cigaretu. da ne ulazimo u strah od rase i seksualnosti.
politicka korektnost direktno udara na biznis model i sasvim je razumljivo sto se filmovi time sakate. setimo se spilbergove nebuloze pri reizdanju ET:baterijske lampe namesto pistolja? stvara se strah od svega sto ne korespondira sa health & safety uzusima, a znamo da su zatvori najsigurnija mesta. dakle,
TO nije nuzno, i nije utopija nadati se da moze biti opovrgnuto. to ne bi vodilo nasilnom izivljavanju, vec mogucnosti da reziser uradi ono sto zeli bez razmisljanja ko ce mu skociti za vrat i koliko platna ce dobiti. svakako, ovo je uvek sputanije kako film postaje veci i finansiraniji, ali stvari se mogu graditi na mnogo zdravije sapetim osnovama.
mnogi filmovi koji imaju R rejting ga uopste ne zasluzuju, osim mozda u histericnim dubinama peskovitih vagina. dakle, izmene u sistemu rejtinga ne bi negativno uticale na zaradu u konacnici, i o tako necemu je smisleno diskutovati, bez tupog idealizma. a buduci da to vristi iz vecine novih filmova sa zapada, tesko je ignorisati tu zamornu predvidivost.
veliki broj pejstovanih clanaka u strange but wierd teme ovog foruma sadrzi upravo te prohibicijske nebuloze. ergo, ta klima ne obuhvata samo film, vec utice na celokupnu kulturu kroz crimethink newspeaka.
no, ovog betmena to ne bi ucinilo boljim.

Izgleda da je Amerikancima sinulo da ako ukinu nasilje na filmu, u stripu, na TV-u, značajno će umanjiti i stopu zločina u državi, možda će i siromašni biti zadovoljniji, a depresivni će naći volje da gledaju s nadom napred... :lol:
Amerikanci su bili na dobrom putu da budu primarna strip kultura na svetu. Međutim, pritisak javnosti je bio toliki da su izdavači sami sebi nametnuli takozvani Comics Code (1954, ako me sećanje služi), tako da su samo politički korektni stripovi objavljivani posle toga, u prevodu, superheroji. Put kojim se kretao E.C., najveći izdavač horora i misterija u stripu, je bio takav da, da je nastavljen, mi bismo danas verovatno zaista imali Betmena sa motornom testerom. Uporedite to sa razvojem mangi, koje su osetile sličan pritisak, ali su pobedile, jer su izdavači bili lukaviji.

Quote from: "Zika Kisobranac"možda, ali sam hteo da se to "ne može" oslobodi prizvuka nemoći i impotencije.

mogu oni da snime šta god hoćeš, ali zašto bi?
da bi udovoljili meni i tebi koji zahtevamo ozbiljnije filmove o superherojima - sigurno ne.

takođe mogu da dovedu koga hoćeš iz evrope ili azije da im snimi betmena. verovatno za manje pare od nolana.

ali pravo da ti kažem, zabrinjavajući broj holivudskih producenata koje sam upoznao na superherojske filmove već od početka gleda kao na neozbiljne i uopšte ne vide u čemu je potencijal za nekakvu "umetničku nadgradnju" tih filmova. za njih su to dečija posla za namicanje para. nužno zlo. radije bi snimali filmove po tolstojevim i de lilovim romanima, nemoj da misliš. ali ti filmovi ne donose para koliko jebeni Betmen. ili Spajdermen.

i zato će ga raditi kao titograd 13, i biće šareniša i sapunice, i preterivanja u glumi, zvučnih glumačkih i rediteljskih imena koji prodaju film iako možda ne briljiraju, i šta god još zatreba.

razmisli, uostalom. ti si upravnik, takoreći chairman, neke velike kompanije. recimo, warnera. imaš prava na betmena, i procena tvojih saradnika i analize tržišta i konkurencije pokazuju da ne bi bilo loše snimiti nastavak.

na šta ti kažeš, "ajde da uzmemo nekog japanca da napiše scenario, i da bude nasilnije, a da režira ovaj mali iz Koreje što je režirao Chaser".

nemojte me zajebavati.

But that's exactly zašto kažem da Holivud ovo 'ne može' da snimi. U smislu da bi takav projekat bio suprotan postojećem biznis modelu i filozofiji koja trenutno vlada u Holivudu. Ne da nema pameti ili kompetencije, već da je ta komisijska klima (odbori, fokus grupe, checkbox mentalitet itd.) ono što efektivno sprečava određenu vrstu kreativnog razvoja. U drugim smerovima itekako ima kreativnosti, da ne bude zabune...

Pritom, stvari su davno prešle granicu apsurda. Razlika između PG-13 i R ratinga se, kad se sve ostalo apstrahuje svodi na to da li se reč fuck u filmu izgovara više od dvaput. Što je bio priličan problem za Die Hard 4, jelte...

Quote from: "ridiculus"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!      
Sorry, Meho, morao sam. Inače nisam poznat kao ljubitelj Miikea, da se zaključiti. Jedino mi se dopala Audicija. Ali, naravno, bilo bi glupo kada bismo svi voleli potpuno identične stvari.

Ma opusti se, ionako sam to najpre rekao imajući u vidu koreografiju borbi u Big Bangu.

Quote from: "Alex"
Usule, jel ti čitaš tekstove na koje daješ linkove?

Dakle, ona Maja o kojoj govorim(o) NIJE nemački projekat, bez obzira na podrijetlo. I Hajdi je Japanka.

Mene je ubedilo ovo

QuoteThe Adventures of Maya the Bee (In French: Maya l'abeille, in German Die Biene Maja In spanish La abeja Maya) is a German book, comic book series and animated television series, first written by Waldemar Bonsels and published in 1912.

Ono sto si ti naveo je malo ispod :) treba citati do kraja

(https://www.znaksagite.com/diskusije/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bodybymilk.com%2Fbatman%2Fdownloads%2Fbatman_ad.jpg&hash=b683027c3b9c56cb6cf28f0a7873e6d92aad2f38)

Sad kad 'po danu' vidim kostim, sviđa mi se još manje (a nije mi se svideo ni tokom filma).

Quote from: "DušMan"
Sad kad 'po danu' vidim kostim, sviđa mi se još manje (a nije mi se svideo ni tokom filma).

Izgleda ko Gillete brijach

(https://www.znaksagite.com/diskusije/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg95.imageshack.us%2Fimg95%2F5729%2Fgillettetq1.png&hash=c04deac204fc479b6cf4a0a7bb33b874324f2dbd)

B92:

Quote
25. jul 2008. | Piše: Ana Kržavac
Best. Superhero. Movie. Ever

Za početak, da se poslužim rečenicom prodavca stripova iz Simpsonovih: "Best. Superhero. Movie. Ever". Ali to je samo za početak.

Ko bi rekao da ćemo posle dva sata i 32 minuta pričati više o nekim drugim, bitnijim stvarima, nego o samoj radnji filma. Tehnički, ovo je i najveće moguće dostignuće bilo kojeg umetničkog dela - da vas natera da mislite o drugim stvarima. A u slučaju Mračnog viteza, te "druge stvari" su toliko mnogobrojne, toliko teške i, po samoj radnji filma, mnogima toliko neshvatljive da će vas ovaj spektakl za sva čula ostaviti zapanjenim.

Tako da i nije iznenađenje ako vas oni koji vas budu sreli po izlasku iz bioskopa budu upitali: "Why so serious?"

Verujem da o Mračnom Vitezu znate već sve što se iz medijske kampanje i opšte poznate istorije Betmen strip i filmskog serijala može saznati.

Doskoro najpotcenjeniji dragulj glumačkog zanata, Kristijan Bejl reprizira svoju ulogu jedinog superheroja koji van svojih noćnih dužnosti vodi neviđeno komotan i bahat život. Pored njega, nijedan član glumačke ekipe u ovom ostvarenju nije se u svojoj ulozi našao slučajno, i doslovno svi, bez izuzetka, blistaju.

Aron Ekhart će istovremeno bolno verno prikazati i proždrati korporativne američke aspiracije u liku okružnog tužioca Harvija Denta, koji se, oh tako prikladno, verio sa Vejnovom bivšom devojkom, Rejčel Dos (glumi je Megi Džilenhol).

Filmski genije Geri Oldmen ovoga puta nije dozvolio svom uobičajenom izboru šizofreničnih likova, koje inače glumi, da pomrače slavu poručnika Džima Gordona, jednog od veoma retkih dobrih i poštenih ljudi u Gotam Sitiju. Iz scene u scenu, uprkos večito suvoparnom materijalu koji se dodeljuje likovima policajaca, briljira koliko i Ekhart i Bejl, i na kraju predstavlja možda i jedinu istinski humanu kariku u lancu beznađa i totalnog ludila koje je ovladalo Betmenovim gradom i progutalo njegove heroje.

Tu su i nezaoblizani ser Majkl Kejn kao Alfred Penivort, Vejnov kućepazitelj i brižna očinska figura, kao i Morgan Frimen kao Lusijus Foks, nepodmitljivi predsednik Vejn korporacije, i čovek koji nadgleda svaki Betmenov korak. Pored njih, u filmu se nalazi i dosta glumaca (Erik Roberts, između ostalih) koji su tu da bi prikazali ozloglašene kriminalne organizacije. I jedan, bez imalo ustezanja ću reći, najveći filmski zlikovac svih vremena, u jednoj od najbolje odglumljenih uloga svih vremena - pokojni Hit Ledžer kao stravični Džoker, koji bez imalo napora na videlo iznosi sav užas modernog doba.

U krajnjoj liniji, "Mračni vitez" je više realni horor film, nego bilo šta drugo. Radnja se odvija u Gotamu, u kojem bande ponovo haraju i svoju nezajažljivu potrebu za novcem ispoljavaju bez trunke morala. Sve to uz pomoć, kako policajaca, tako i običnih građana.

Nebo iznad grada je večito sivo i ljudi su bez osmeha, ali sa tračkom nade i velikim očekivanjima. Svoje moguće izbavljenje i veru u bolje sutra poveravaju okružnom tužiocu Harviju Dentu, koji je ništa manje do arhetip požrtvovanog i poštenog političara-borca. E, sad pokušajte da zamislite da tako nešto postoji.

Naizgled nepokvarljiv, njegova potreba da bude spasitelj, "beli vitez" Gotama koji će zlikovce smestiti iza rešetaka, nadmašuje svaku mogućnost da ga neko potkupi ili pomrači njegovu plemenitu nameru. On je ujedno i verenik Vejnove jedine prave ljubavi u životu, visprene Rejčel, koja je i Vejnu obećala da će se udati za njega - ako prestane da bude Betmen. Tu počinje veliki lični problem za ovaj trio.

Za razliku od Denta i Gordona, koji svoje bitke vode protiv čitavog sveta, pa i ličnih pomoćnika kojima ne znaju da li smeju da veruju, Rejčel i Brus, bitke vode sami protiv sebe. Uprkos spoznaje svih aspekata Vejnovog karaktera, odnosno njega kao borca protiv nepravde, to i dalje nije dovoljno da mlada Rejčel Dos ostavi Denta, koji je voli do ludila. A Brus Vejn je priča za sebe. Kao zgodni milijarder, u sadašnjosti vodi lagodan život, kakav Piter Parker i ostali namučeni heroji ne bi mogli ni da zamisle. Ipak, to je samo njegova svakodnevica. U biti, on je, kao i svaki drugi tragični heroj, vođen osećajem krivice.

Ispred sebe, kao Betmen, ima mafijašku porodicu Falkone koju mora da zaustavi zbog neraščišćenih poslova lične prirode iz prošlosti, ali i ljubav svog života koja ne želi da bude sa njim sve dok on živi dvostruki život superheroja. Pored svega toga, Betmen se suočava sa kritikama javnosti, kao i velikim brojem imitatora koji neretko stradaju pokušavajući da pomognu: "Želeo sam da inspirišem dobro, a ne ludilo", razočarano kaže Vejn kada shvati da se sve oko njega otima kontroli.

Linearna radnja filma je, kao takva izuzetno komplikovana, pošto nam prikazuje korupciju i raspad, truljenje pojedinaca i grupa, Gotama kao grada, pa i čitavog ljudskog roda.

Kako priča odmiče Betmenova ličnost se menja uvođenjem nove komponente u priču - Džokera.

Džoker predstavlja element haosa, nema nikakve posebne planove, osim da razotkrije identitet Betmena, i pritom ubije što više ljudi je moguće. On to radi unoseći sumnje u svakoga, a ponajviše u samog Vejna, koji ni sam više ne zna ko ili šta bi morao da postane ne bi li zaustavio nekoga koga (citat) "nema čime da napadne".

Moralne dileme, ljubavni i oni "ljudski" problemi oteraće Betmena u formu ludila koja se graniči sa još jednim Bejlovim poduhvatom, "Američkim psihom". Kao i "Psiho" Bejtmen, i Vejn je imućni biznismen (čak je zabavna sličnost između dva filmska lika u tom delu). S tim da noću Bejtmen svoje frustracije ispoljava tako što veruje da ubija ljude u naletima psihoze, dok Vejn, kako film odmiče, takođe, počinje da gubi kompas, i ne može da shvati da li spasava, ili ubija ljude svojim delima. Vejn sve vreme ostaje "čovek sa pravilima", koji iznad svega želi da pomogne društvu, i spreman je da žrtvuje svoj ljubavni život i zabavu zarad toga. Vejn veruje da nijedan kriminalac nije komplikovan, i da su svi kriminalci ljudi sa motivima, od kojih je novac uglavnom na prvom mestu. Oni su potkupljivi, često kukavički, i generalno moralno slabi i plašljivi. Oni su defektni ljudi. I tu upravo leži najveći Betmenov problem. Kada je Betmen u pitanju, Džoker nije čovek.

Kao ni Klint Istvud u nekoliko navrata, ni Džoker nema ime. Nema čak ni otiske prstiju ili neki drugi nadimak, ništa što bi ga činilo čovečnim. On je istinski, čisti prikaz anarhije i nasumičnog delanja u okviru haosa, koji dela, ne samo u suprotnosti sa onim što čini nekoliko dobrih ljudi Gotama, već i u suprotnosti sa onim što rade kriminalci. On je antiteza i protivravnoteža svega, i kao takav ne sme da bude nimalo ljudski, već sakriven iza debele fasade šminke. Zapamtite ovu izjavu za kasnije.

Ono što je simptomatično za ovaj, film neslućenih moralnih, psiholoških, pa i neo-socio-filozofskih razmera, jeste to da se u njemu gotovo uopšte ne dotiče za sva dela slične tematike tipično "ends vs. means" pitanje. Ovde se sve vreme koncentrišemo samo na "means", odnosno na način postizanja nečega. Ciljevi svih likova u filmu donekle su marginalizovani da bi se argumentovala i na svaki način naglasila moralna dilema pri svakom delovanju lika koji, ili pokušava da postigne svoj (pa i tuđi cilj), ili pokušava da spreči nekog drugog da postigne svoj cilj.

Nama nije bitno zašto Betmen želi da bude Betmen, već kako se on ponaša ne bi li bio Betmen; nije nam ni bitno šta Džoker planira da uradi sa novcem koji će dobiti ako naškodi Betmenu, niti čak sam novac, već način na koji on dolazi do toga i razmišljanja kojima se pritom koristi (ili izbegava da se koristi, zavisi kako gledate na to).

Ovakva postavka relevantnih detalja u filmu takođe nam omogućuje da se bez prevelikog uplitanja lako krećemo dalje, te se tih dva sata i 32 minuta uopšte i ne oseti. Priča ide iz klimaksa u klimaks, i to bez klišeiziranih dijaloga, scena ili prevrata - sve u ovom filmu čini se nekako novim i svežim. Nekima će se činiti da se ekipa "Viteza" tendenciozno survala u krajnost što dalju od svakog banalnog smeha i šarenila, prvenstveno da bi nam dokazala da je Mračni vitez mnogo, mnogo više od superheroja, Betmen, akcionog ili holivudskog filma. Još jedna jednako mračna istina je da za veran prikaz stvarnog sveta taj napor uopšte nije bio potreban.

"It is said that the Joker may not be insane, but has some sort of "super-sanity" in which he creates himself each day to cope with the chaotic flow of modern urban life."

Ovo je možda I tužna okosnica filma, ali i realnost. Da biste se odista nosili sa svim katastrofama modernog života, možda stvarno ne možete da budete konvencionalno normalni. Konvencionalno normalni su najviše i patili u ovoj priči. Zato na scenu stupa po svakom parametru nekonvencionalna ličnost.

O Džokeru se previše toga može reći, mahom zato što nemamo pojma ko je on. Šta je on, to je svima jasno- faca toliko jeziva da čak ni kada se ludački smeje, dokona omladina u bioskopima ne sme da reaguje, lopov kojeg krađa uopšte ne zanima, diler kome novac i biznis ne znače ništa, ubica kojem bukvalno ljuštenje slojeva ličnosti žrtava donosi devijantnu satisfakciju. On je istovremeno i sve i ništa, i kao takav izmiče svakoj definiciji.

Ono što je najjezivije kod njega jeste to što je opipljivo harizmatičan i sposoban da razmišlja brže, bolje, i efikasnije od svih naših heroja zajedno. Čak je toliko ozbiljan u nedostatku svojih namera (da, sve oko njega je paradoksalno, i u suprotnosti sa zdravim razumom), da deluje kao jedini iskren od svih koje vidimo u filmu. Govori sa tolikim razumevanjem svoje okoline i situacija da se čini normalnijim da njega slušate više nego sve ostale likove koji su predstava konfuzije.

Ipak, Džoker ima i bol, iako nema slabu tačku. Njegov bol je u tome što ga svi likovi uvek i bez izuzetka, naglašeno zovu "klovn", "nakaza", "nastrani ludak", omalovažavajući sve što je on načinio krucijalnim za svoje postojanje - haos i uništenje, i njegovu bezgraničnu moć da izaziva patnju tako što nemate gde da ga napadnete. To je I razlog zbog kojeg on često govori u sporim kadencama, pokušavajući ljude da natera da shvate da je opasniji od svega što znaju, i da apsorbuju svaku njegovu reč, kako god on to zamisli. On postepeno uništava sve više, ubija sve veći broj ljudi i granice bezumlja pomera do nezamislivih, sve samo da ga okolina shvati ozbiljno.

I sada onaj najveći Džokerov paradoks - iako je za Betmena on sušta suprotnost ljudskosti, Džoker je "više čovek nego čovek". I to strašno napaćen čovek. U malim detaljima razasutim tokom čitavog filma, može se naslutiti Džokerova trauma, čiji je jedan deo preokrenuo u svoju izopačeno manipulatornu pripovedačku korist, dok je drugi mahom u malim stvarima koje govori, i koje ljudi ignorišu. Dok je kristalno jasno da je Džoker prototip žestokog posttraumatskog stresa, njegova moć razgovora koristi se kao faktor zabave i dokaz Ledžerovog nadljudskog umeća u filmu. Ne propušta priliku da kaže da "nije lud", i to više puta zaredom ako je potrebno. Perverzno zadovoljstvo čak nalazi i u mogućnosti da sofisticiranim razgovorom i "planovima kojima ne treba planiranje" demonstrira kako je možda normalniji od svake druge osobe oko njega, ali kako to nije bitno, jer ga za život navodno ništa ne vezuje. Osim opsesivne potrebe da natera Betmena da skine masku i pokaže svetu ko je. Simbolično do srži. Dok se on šminka i skriva, sve što želi je da spreči Betmena da učini isto. Džoker priča razne priče o tome kako je dobio svoje čuvene ožiljke, i kako vreme odmiče, više vam i nije važno koja je i da li je i jedna istinita. Njegov pogled u taoca koji liči na njegovog oca , njegovo dodirivanje Rejčel, sve nam govori kako on ne može da pobegne od svoje mržnje i iskustava, ali kako je toliko inteligentan i, o da, nečovečan, da to projektuje u sopstvenu korist, primoravajući ostale da se suoče sa svojim demonima preko trauma, dok je on izbegava. Kao da ih sve ubija ne bi li ih udaljio od sebe. A Betmen ih sve spasava iz istog razloga.

Naš ultimativni zločinac nije suprotnost Betmenu, više komplement, ali po nuždi. Kao što mu i kaže u sobi za saslušavanje "Ti si za njih ista nakaza kao i ja". I ova izjava odjekuje bolom koji ne možemo da zamislimo jer nam on, za razliku od našeg heroja-šišmiša, to ne dozvoljava. Posle čak ide toliko daleko da Betmenu pokušava da "otvori oči" prikazom sveta koji je propao i smrdljiv i bez njega: "Pri prvom znaku nevolje, ovi civilizovani ljudi- oni će pojesti jedni druge". To je još jedna moralna mozgalica, u kojoj, ako hoćete da dođete do imalo određenog odgovora, morate da posmatrate te "ends" koje nismo imali u ovom filmu (ako ne računate haos). Ovako je sve otvoreno.

I naš Betmen se tu postavlja kao Kempbelov Monomitski heroj, koji po definiciji "prelazi iz običnog sveta u mračan svet čudnih događanja. Njegov prelaz u ovaj svet nije svojevoljan, već ga nešto ili neko primorava na to. Ako se odazove izazovu, heroj će se na putu do razrešenja sresti sa mnogim preprekama, od kojih će poslednja biti najveća. Ako i nju uspe da prevaziđe, dobiće veliki poklon koji će moći da ponese sa sobom nazad u običan život i pomogne svetu". Ako se uopšte opredeli da se vrati i povuče, to jest. Šta će Betmen na kraju, zbog čega, i kako odabrati ne treba da vam kažem, ali je lako shvatiti da su traume i ožiljci svakog lika, vidljivi ili ne, preveliki i preduboki da bi nam obezbedili potpuno razrešenje, a kamo li hepiend. Još jednom napominjem, poruke i strahote ovog filma su samo za najjače, a ono što najviše doprinosi tome je što uglavnom niste svesni toga ko je istinski heroj, a ko oportunista, ili šta je zločinac uopšte, i da li određena dela imaju opravdanje.

Razlika između "heroja" i "zločinca" ipak nije samo u percepciji, iako nas film kontinuirano podseća da prvo na to treba da obratimo pažnju- postoje i objektivni faktori koji nekoga svrstavaju u jednu ili drugu kategoriju. Doduše, u svetu u kojem ne možemo da igramo bekgemon i da sve imamo predstavljeno crno na belo, ta racionalno definisana linija bledi, pa se i potpuno dezintegriše. Kada shvatite da sve što radite u okviru društva uključuje i žrtvovanje, pa neminovno i teške izbore - ne samo ono što izaberete, već i način na koji to izaberete razvrstaće vas bolje nego magični šešir iz Hogvortsa. Za ovo su najbolji primer bili sekundarni likovi u filmu, koje će prvenstveno Džoker naterati da dokažu gde leži njihova lojalnost I da li u njima ima imalo čovečnosti. Nečiji su motivi iskreni, čak altruistični, nečiji sebični i nezreli, ali na kraju svi plaćaju cenu. Jer su svi doprineli da se nalazimo u stanju haosa u kojem je "onaj klovn ludak" Džoker više mesija i podsetnik na zdrav razum koji gubimo, nego što bi to heroj, bilo onaj koji narodu treba ili onaj koji narod želi, to mogao da bude.

Eto još jednog svevremenskog paradoksa.

Sve u svemu, pošto ne bih da otkrivam završetak i najveće preokrete filma, uskraćena mi je određena sloboda opisa morala i prividnog morala, očitog nemorala i bizarne kombinacije svega navedenog, ali činjenica ostaje- "Mračni vitez" je učinio nešto što je, kako bi rekla družina iz "Autostoperskog vodiča kroz galaksiju", "veoma malo verovatno". Ne samo što je prerastao sve okvire i tužne sprege holivudske korporativne zamajalice za mase, već je komotno uspeo da bude i nešto što svi oni evropski filmići koji se nadaju nagradama po "elitnim" festivalima tipa Kan i Berlin bezuspešno pokušavaju da budu: vizuelno i scenarijski savršen, sa glumom holivudskih majstora kojima nema premca.

zao mi da boldujem... :shock:  :?  8)  :P  :oops:  :cry:  :!:  :D  :arrow:

Sad shvatam zašto je 'comic book geek' isključivi stereotip muškaraca. Žene se ne razumeju u strip. A ni u film. Zapravo, žene služe za kuvanje ručka. I za seks. Ostalo treba prepustiti muškarcima.

Quote from: "DušMan"Zapravo, žene služe za kuvanje ručka. Ostalo treba prepustiti muškarcima.

Ispravio sam ti post.

Ja bih samo da kazem da vecina muskih utisaka koje sam citao se poklapaju s ovim gore. Pritom mislim na mmuske utiske iz US of A.

Da li to znaci da su americki musakrci kao srpske zene - dobri samo za kuvanje u cuvanje potencijalnog okota?

:?   Leleeee! Ako se ovoga dokopaju raznorazne zenske grupe, nevladine organizacije.... Obrali ste bostan i to zelen!    
  :evil:    :twisted:

Quote from: "Father Jape"Da li to znaci da su americki musakrci kao srpske zene - dobri samo za kuvanje u cuvanje potencijalnog okota?

To! Amerikanci su žene! Samo nisu lepi kao srpske žene. Eto. ovom rečenicom sam otklonio bes svih domaćih ženskih grupa i NGO-ova.

Quote from: "DušMan"Sad shvatam zašto je 'comic book geek' isključivi stereotip muškaraca. Žene se ne razumeju u strip. A ni u film. Zapravo, žene služe za kuvanje ručka. I za seks. Ostalo treba prepustiti muškarcima.

Ako više veruješ muškarcima (onim koji se razumeju u film) Milan Vlajčić juče u Blicu kaže, otprilike: čudo od filma, šekspirovska priča, mračni spektakl koji treba gledati više puta...

Blic su ženske novine. Čak sam i video da se zovu 'Blic ŽENA'. Therefore, ljudi koji tamo pišu su žene.

Neverovatno kako se sve može lako objasniti.

Vlajčić je ili posenilio pod stare dane, ili ga plaćaju da piše to što piše...

Aj ovako: izasao sam da izblejim u film tipa shega ,shora i machevanje, u reizdanje lika koga sam pratio u 'Eks Almanahu'  kad sam imao 12 13 godina i shta dobijesh? Film u kome imash 10 minuta dosade, onda malo monologa tipa Jokerovog nesrecnog detinjstva, onda opet 15 minuta dosade i dremke osim ako se ne pojave Frimen ili Kejn (ali ni oni ne mogu da izvade losu pricu), pa opet monolog? Jel to kad vide da imaju malo jaceg glumca, od vremena Kuma i monologa glavnog matorca i Al Pacina, daju 3minutne monologe svakom ko mozda moze da bar malo pomeri publiku ?

Drugo, stvarno ne znam sta bih radio da sam poveo osobu od 12 godina koja voli Betmena iz stripa sa sobom, mada s obzirom da ta generacija voli GTA mozda sam malo staromodan.

I na kraju, Batman nije Dart Vejder da menja glas , nije Punisher pa da lomi noge ljudima ili ih bije nekontrolisano, a Joker nije iskalkulisan lik koji gospodari situacijom i ima sve isplanirano 3 ili bolje receno 30 koraka unapred...a i Oldman je suvishe young da bi bio ubedljiv Gordon, i Gordon non stop furnja cigare.

'Dark Knight' grosses $300M, shattering record :D


By CHRISTY LEMIRE, AP Movie Critic 1 hour, 59 minutes ago

LOS ANGELES (AP) — "The Dark Knight" continues to obliterate box office records, crossing the $300 million mark in just 10 days.
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The epic Batman saga grossed $75.6 million in its second weekend in theaters, pushing its domestic total to $314,245,000, Warner Bros. head of distribution Dan Fellman said Sunday.

That surpasses the record set in 2006 by "Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest," which took 16 days to make $300 million.

The latest Batman installment already had broken records for best opening weekend at $158.4 million and best single-day with $66.4 million. It's also busted records in its showings on IMAX screens, making $16.3 million in its first 10 days.

Fellman expects that "Dark Knight" could reach $400 million in about 18 days, which would beat the record "Shrek 2" set in 2004 when it made that much money in 43 days.

"What can you say? We've been getting a lot of repeat business coming in," Fellman said. "Our audience is expanding, like you would expect with terrific word-of-mouth and strong reviews. Our audience is getting a little bit older, that's the good news. We're finding the younger demographic, male and female, coming back."

He called it "a big surprise," adding: "To do $300 (million) plus in 10 days, we just couldn't have predicted it."

"The Dark Knight" could pass "Titanic" as the highest-grossing film in U.S. history, said Paul Dergarabedian, president of Media By Numbers. James Cameron's 1997 extravaganza made $600,788,188 domestically, a record no other movie has come close to touching.

"The `Titanic' record has sat in a lock box for 10 years. It's a tall order but if any film has a chance to surpass that number, it's got to be `Dark Knight,'" Dergarabedian said.

Director Christopher Nolan's follow-up to his 2005 origin story "Batman Begins," which again stars Christian Bale as the tormented comic-book crime fighter, initially benefited from the mystique of the late Heath Ledger giving his masterful, last performance as the Joker, Dergarabedian said.

"Now, it's all about word-of-mouth," he said. "The first weekend, there was this huge, pent-up demand and eagerness by audiences to see this movie. Now, it's like a freight train — it seems to be unstoppable."

Part of the film's visual allure comes from the fact that 30 minutes of it were shot with IMAX cameras, including an elaborate bank-heist scene at the start.

"Chris (Nolan) has clearly hit upon something," said Greg Foster, chairman and president of IMAX Filmed Entertainment. "There are many important filmmakers who we've spoken with in the last couple of weeks about shooting with IMAX cameras."

THE DARK KNIGHT

I got an email from Scott L. requesting a review of THE DARK KNIGHT, because he's seen all these HYPERBOLIC!!!!!!!! reviews that have been springing up on all the websights and thought I might be a good outsider perspective to temper his expectations. I was happy to oblige because I liked the BATMAN BEGINS movie so I was already planning to see this one at a midnight show with a bunch of kids dressed up as the joker and jacked up on Monster and Mountain Dew High Voltage.

This story is about Batman, the caped vigilante of Gotham City, who is trying to stop some crime. There are many other characters such as Bruce Wayne, etc. I won't give away who is Batman because I'm gonna try not to have spoilers. Also if you were a little confused because "Batman" is not in the title you are not alone. I kept wondering "is this a Batman movie?" Pretty weird.

Okay, disregard that last paragraph, that was just typing practice. Scott L., I have failed you. Although I haven't read too many of the other reviews, I'm guessing I loved it at least as much as those weiners. THE DARK KNIGHT is a hell of a movie. It's not so much a comic book movie as a super hero procedural. They took Batman and the Joker and put them in an epic crime drama - I thought Michael Mann more than I thought Tim Burton. Hell, Batman even talks like Clint Eastwood. It's only slightly about people in funny costumes punching each other - mostly it's about a cooperative effort between the well-funded vigilante, the head of the Major Crimes Unit of the police department, the district attorney's office and the mayor, with the goal of breaking the back of organized crime and giving hope to the citizens of Gotham, showing them that not everything is corrupt and broken.

Even BATMAN BEGINS, which was so smart about being a reality-based character drama, turned a little "comic booky" as it got to the end and had a big special effects based monorail/bomb-to-destroy-the-city thing going on. For this one they got out the mops and scrubbed clean every last drop of that "comic book atmosphere" that Tim Burton did so well back in '89ish or whenever it was that Batdance came out. The opening is like a '70s caper movie, the city is always shot like a real city, no gothic exaggerations. Lots of epic overhead shots of the buildings and most of it even takes place during the daytime (which is when the mafia comes out because they're afraid of Batman).

In BEGINS I thought Bruce Wayne was a great character but I was a little less into it whenever he actually turned into Batman, partly because that armored costume (as great of a job as they did explaining it) looks kinda stupid. So although the little tag at the end left me excited for the next chapter there was also part of me thinking maybe a second one wouldn't be as good because he'd have to be Batman more. Well, luckily this Batman has stepped up his game. The costume is still goofy but you almost don't notice because what he's doing is so exciting.

(Keep bustin'.)

All super heroes have one weakness. Superman is allergic to Kryptonite, Captain America is afraid of mice, Wonder Woman has horrible B.O., Popeye once got E Coli from spinach and Blade alienates friends and loved ones by being too awesome. Oh yeah, and Spider-man will start dancing if you put a chair near him. In BATMAN BEGINS Batman's weakness was not-good-enough staging and photographing of action. I mean there was that great car chase, but I didn't like how the fights were close-up and handheld, you couldn't really tell what was going on, plus they committed the all time number one movie sin of having a scene where the hero betrays an entire clan of ninjas on top of a mountain in a burning temple and then not going into an awesome martial arts battle royale. I mean come on, who does that?

For this one the style is similar and occasionally confused me but they upped the ante so much that it almost didn't matter. Sometimes the disorientation is intentional, because Batman is this force that appears out of nowhere behind a guy or all the sudden comes through the window like a man-sized brick and the note attached is a serious ass-whooping. He glides on his wings, he jumps off of skyscrapers, he goes to Hong Kong to kidnap a guy, he takes a guy's rifle and dismantles it as he continues down the hall. (That seems like a good approach to gun control.) And the car chase scene in this movie is jawdropping. I'm not sure the one in the last movie will seem as cool anymore, this one is so good.

I've seen a bunch of reviews saying Batman's not in it enough or is overshadowed by the other characters, but I don't agree with that at all. This is by far the smartest and most capable Batman I can remember seeing. He does detective work, he does cutting edge forensics, he uses his business deals as undercover missions to ferret out crooked companies, he plans and executes complex operations with soon-to-be-commissioner Gordon.

He also goes over the line, beating the Joker in a police interrogation room, illegally wiretapping the whole city (whole world?). Usually Batman has these batplanes and shit but you don't really question the ethics of how far he should go. This one intends to make you wonder where he should draw the line with the technology he creates. But the movie is so awesome the relevance doesn't set in until later.

I have one major complaint, and that is the character of Two Face, the half-scarred villain that Aaron Eckhart's district attorney Harvey Dent turns into. Unfortunately this new version is not very faithful to the original version played by Tommy Lee Jones in BATMAN PART 3. For some reason this one is half normal and half burned, half good and half vengeful. That is not at all true to Tommy Lee's version which was half normal, half purple-zebra striped. He would flip a coin and if it landed on the bad side he would turn into a totally outrageous party animal. But if it landed on the good side he would re-flip it. That was way better.

Nah, just fuckin with you. Actually he's one of many great characters in this movie, even (maybe especially) before he turns super. You've already heard how amazing and scary poor Heath Ledger is in it, and they ain't lying. Such a great twist on this type of villain too. It used to be cool that they would have some tragic backstory, but now it's such a part of the formula that they were smart to avoid it. This Joker tells more than one story about his origin, so you realize he's lying and you'll never know where the fuck he actually came from. And he's real smart and devious but his schemes don't seem like your usual super villain scheme. Even Liam Neeson in the last one had some silly machine involved in his plan. The Joker is more like a terrorist or a serial killer. He made me think more of the Zodiac killer, or at least Scorpio in DIRTY HARRY, or the threat to blow up schools in DIE HARD WITH A VENGEANCE.

The city is in a total panic, complete post 9-11 bedlam, and the beauty of it is that it's kind of Batman's fault. At the end of BEGINS Gordon talked to Batman about "escalation," and it seemed like a clever way to explain the use of cartoony characters like The Joker. But it turned out to mean alot more than that. There are numerous copycat Batmen in home made suits trying to help, and when the real Batman tries to stop them they question why he should be allowed to do it and not them. The various gangs have to team up and follow the Joker's plan in order to stay in the game with Batman on the scene. Cops and loved ones get killed, lives get ruined, buildings get destroyed. He's rich enough to create all these weapons, and smart enough to use them well, but is he really just fanning the flames? The movie seems to lean in that direction. Poor bastard is trying to make things better but he's making them worse. But he's still a beginner. Stick at it, Batman. I had to write reviews for years before most people stopped calling me illiterate.

I want to mention the score. It's perfect, even more minimalistic than the first movie. Sometimes it's just simple keyboard riffs or drones, sometimes a violin squeal that goes on uncomfortably long. About as different from Danny Elfman as you could get, so it's not what you expect in a movie about a guy in a cape.

I would also like to point out that this is a $180 million movie that features Michael Jai White, Tommy "Tiny" Lister, Eric Roberts and Anthony Michael Hall, and all of them do a good job! So there's hope for Dolph Lundgren in my opinion.

My colleague at The Ain't It Cool News Mr. Beaks described the movie as "devoid of hope." He meant it as a compliment, but I gotta disagree. There's a very important scene showing that the Joker is wrong and that people are not inherently cruel. And unlike many movies (including HELLBOY II) where the people turn on the hero for no reason, Batman makes a conscious decision to not be seen in a good light by them. (hard to explain without spoiler). The movie is all about giving people hope even if it's not by believing in Batman. And if the text of the movie isn't enough how about the fact that it only took 11 years for this character to go from literally one of the worst movies ever made to a triumph like this that people are seriously talking about as a best picture contender? Doesn't that give you some hope, Mr. Gloomypants?

This is a movie I think most people would like - except maybe not kids. It's kind of a miracle that they even got to make this movie. Not so much because it's disturbing and scary but because it just never seems like it even occurred to them to make a movie that a kid might watch. This is squarely aimed at adults who don't mind if the one guy happens to have bat ears. It never feels like they're following a marketing plan or even a comic book movie formula. It honestly feels like it's a story that's about something, that happens to have a Batman in it, and not the other way around.

When the movie ended I had fuckin goosebumps. The guy sitting next to me told me it was "a triumph," so I re-used his word in this review. As I was leaving the theater I did hear one guy listing off the things he was disappointed in, such as "the appearance of the Joker." Man, I get nitpicking but this is minutes after the movie ended and he's already in talkback whiny mode. I should've told him to give it up because, sorry dude, a movie this good is one in a million. If that direct shot to the heart doesn't get you high then you are immune. The movie you want will never be made. Time to head to the mountains or somethin. Forget about comics and movies and learn to grow organic fruit and vegetables to sell at the farmer's market.

In my expert opinion this is probaly the best comic strip movie ever made. Yes, better than POPEYE. Yes, better than BARBARELLA, although if I was stranded on a desert island please forgive me for choosing BARBARELLA, for personal reasons. And yes, there is a vague possibility that it is even better than the BLADE movies, although that has not been proven in clinical trials and probaly is better left unexplored. Anyway, the point is I never expected a movie this good. I don't care what anybody says, this is the best movie summer in fuckin forever. I don't know what we did to deserve it, but I accept.

Vern

America: Our 'Dark Knight'? Watching Batman with Zizek


In contrast to the simplistic opposition of good guys and bad guys, spy thrilers with artistic pretensions display all the "realistic psychological complexity" of the characters from "our" side. Far from signaling a balanced view, however, this "honest" acknowledgement of our own "dark side" stands for its very opposite, for the hidden assertion of our supremacy: we are "psychologically complex," full of doubts, while the opponents are one dimensional fanatical killing machines.
~ Slavoj Zizek, In Defense of Lost Causes

The same, I think, could be said of superhero movies with artistic pretensions. Take The Dark Knight. Batman's psychological complexity, his struggle with the moral ambiguity related his own actions, and his status as a "Dark Knight", do not level the playing field between Batman and the evil he resists. For the Joker is, in his own words, "a dog chasing cars", he is evil and violent, simply for the sake of being evil and violent. He promotes chaos for the sake of chaos. The Joker has no psychological complexity, no internal moral struggle, he is a "fanatical killing machine". He is thus completely, and utterly, insane. Hence, Batman's inner turmoil functions as a sign of his supremacy over the forces he resists, personified in the Joker.

Of course, many people have noted that this moves Batman from the realm of the heroic, into the realm of the anti-hero, and that's all well and good (i.e. that's where Batman has always belonged), but it doesn't take us very far.

You see, Zizek's remarks about "our side" refer to the ideology of the liberal democratic West, and the United States in particular. The Dark Knight functions as a powerful spectacular (think Debord) defense of that ideology.

In today's world, America can no longer hold on to her heroic pretensions. It is clear that she is waging an illegal war, breaking UN Charters, and refusing to respect decisions made by the World Court. America can no longer be sustained with stories of innocence, and heroism, and fictions about cowboys and savages. That innocence has been lost, and many of the actions America has engaged in appear morally ambiguous (at best -- in reality they only appear morally ambiguous to Americans and their allies, the rest of the world is aware that those actions are morally deplorable!). Thus, according to contemporary American ideology, things go like this: aware of the ways in which she will be (unjustly) villified, America still shoulders the burden of engaging in necessary violent actions for the sake of others (like going to war to save the world from terror), even if those others go on to condemn her for those very salvific actions!

Thus, America has become an anti-hero. She is a vigilante, engaging in actions that others condemn, actions that are illegal, for the sake of the greater good. Like Batman. And The Dark Knight ennobles this ideological (but utterly false) vision of America. Batman represents America and her allies, while the Joker represents all the forces of terror that America is fighting. Not only does this become clear through moments in the film -- say when Batman is standing at the site of an explosion, a scene that looks a lot like Batman imposed upon 'ground zero' in New York, or when Batman decides to covertly use communication technology to spy on others (an act like phone-tapping), a deplorable but necessary act given the Joker as the creator of 'the state of exception -- it is also clear in the way in which the film was marketed. On one of the posters advertising The Dark Knight, we see Batman standing below an office building. Some of the windows of the building have been blown out, and a fire is burning inside. It is up to the reader to decide whether or not the shape created looks more like a bat-symbol, or more like the gap created by a plane flying into a building (cf. http://blog.ugo.com/images/uploads/DrakKnightPoster-4-24-08.jpg). Significantly, this scene never appears in the movie.

Note, then, some of the things that are masked by this ideology, and its recent spectacular defense in The Dark Knight.

(1) Bruce Wayne, Batman in 'real life', is portrayed as one of the wealthiest men in the world. This is significant, not only because it allows Batman to have the best technology for his suits and other toys, but because it portrays Batman as a person without any needs. This, then, highlights the altruistic nature of his character. Wayne acts, not for his own sake, or in his own defense, but in defense of others -- especially those who cannot defend themselves. Now, when Batman is used as a stand-in for America, we receive the myth of an altruistic America, acting solely out of her desire to see others living free and democratic lives.

This is a complete reversal of the reality well expressed by Henry Kissinger: "America doesn't have friends. America only has interests." Granted, like Bruce Wayne, America is one of the wealthiest powers out there today. But, unlike Bruce Wayne, she is not independently wealthy. She is wealthy because she has been plundering other nations for decades -- all the while posing as if she had those other nations' best interests in mind!

Therefore, although the altruistic Batman is unjustly reviled, and becomes something of a martyr for the sake of the masses he loves so much (or so the story goes), we must not be so foolish as to draw the same conclusion about America's actions on the world stage today. America is reviled because she is plundering and killing the innocent and those who are without defense against her power, so let us be careful that Hollywood doesn't confuse us on this point.

(2) As America cannot be equated with the altruistic Batman, so also those who struggle violently against America and her interests -- notably groups that are labeled 'fanatical Jihadists' or something like that -- cannot be equated with the Joker. On this point, let me mention another passage from Zizek's In Defense of Lost Causes. In discussing the ways in which our society forces certain perspectives and presuppositions upon us, Zizek mentions the Serbsky Institute that existed in Soviet Moscow. This institute existed to torture any who internally opposed the Soviet Union, for "[t]he overriding belief was that a person had to be insane to be opposed to Communism." Zizek then argues that the same sort of attitude was operative in response to Mel Gibson's drunken anti-Semitic outburst in 2006. With all the talk of Gibson's need for rehabilitation and counselling, Zizek argues that our society tells us that "a person has to be insane to be anti-Semitic". He then draws this conclusion:

This easy way out enables us to avoid the key issue: that, precisely, anti-Semitism in our Western societies was -- and is -- not an ideology displayed by the deranged, but an ingredient of spontaneous ideological attitudes of perfectly sane people, of our ideological sanity itself. (To be clear: Zizek isn't defending anti-Semitism in this passage or elsewhere -- he believes that Gibson's attitude, and the popular response to that attitude, are both problematical.)

What I think Zizek is doing in this pasage, is arguing for the importance of exploring the ideological beliefs that inspire and sustain the actions that we perform. He wants to expose those ideologies, and he wants to ask, "why is this particular ideology appealing to this person? Is there, perhaps, some good or understandable reason why this person holds to this belief (say, for example, the person who resists Communism)?" and so on and so forth.

However, this is precisely the sort of discussion that America does not want to engage in. Hence, it promotes the view that terrorists are insane, that they are lovers of death and chaos, operating strictly out of madness and inexplicable hatred. Thus, the Joker perfectly represents the 'enemy' as America wishes us to perceive that 'enemy.'

However, the truth is that most of our 'enemies', most 'terrorists', are quite intelligent and are perfectly sane. Consequently, we must engage in precisely the sort of discussion that Zizek recomends. Yet, this quickly reveals that some people actually have understandable reasons for becoming militant fundamentalists -- American businesses stole our land, and led my family into starvation and poverty; American planes fire-bombed my village; American companies sold weapons to the people who shot my family; and so on and so forth. This, then, is part of the reason why some people would be drawn toward a militant form of fundamentalism, but it is precisely this sort of thing that America must repress. Better to represent the enemy as a Joker. A mad dog chasing cars.

(3) Notice, also, the way in which political acts of lying and deception are justified. Apart from one moment, The Dark Knight portrays the people as always on the verge of hopelessness that quickly turns into anarchic violence and self-destructive chaos. Therefore, the people must be presented with a fictional "White Knight" in order to provide them with hope, and so that order can be sustained. Thus, continuing with Zizek's comments in In Defense of Lost Causes, the only way to sustain Order is, paradoxically, by transgressing that Order (Agamben's state of exception, again). But this comes with a price: "The price we pay for this is that the Order which thus survives is a mockery of itself, a blasphemous imitation of Order."

Unfortunately, what The Dark Knight offers is a noble vision of this transgression. Sure, it may not be presented as ideal, but it certainly is presented as the best possible option for us -- and it's hella cool. Thus, how can we not agree when Dick Cheney tells us that "we also have to work... sort of the dark side... A lot of what needs to be done here will have to be done quietly, without any discussion." We become incapable of seeing that this sort of Order is actually Disorder, and that this sort of structure is only the systematisation of chaos -- the very thing it claims to counteract, it perpetuates (which is why America is always a nation at war, or encouraging, supplying, and funding wars elsewhere).

However, we the people -- or, rather, the multitude (which Hardt and Negri carefully distinguish from the concept of 'the people') -- should take offense at such portrayals of the public. The violence that runs just beneath the surface of us is not a self-destructive, insane expression of chaos. Rather, it is a violence that we wish to direct towards the powers-that-be, towards the political persons who lie to us and deceive us. As such, it is an expression of hope, not hopelessness. America, and The Dark Knight, would have us believe that we need to be saved from ourselves, but in reality it is the powers-that-be who know that they are the ones who may need to be saved from us. Consequently, they portray themselves as our saviours, and in this act, they continue to hold sway over us. In reality, we have nothing to lose but our chains, and the blood of others -- our brothers and sisters around the world -- that has been poured out over our hands, staining our clothes, the fuel we consume, and the food that we eat.

http://poserorprophet.livejournal.com/143330.html

inače, valja imati na umu i dejvida s. gojera koji je pisao priču za betmena (kreditovan kao "a story by", nije mala stvar).

inače sam otprilike sličan utisak kao ovaj gore neutešni bloger imao i ja tokom gledanja filma. ne baš tako sentimentalan, ali otprilike u tom pravcu.

inače, najsmešnije mi je bilo kad helikopter sleti na zgradu, a dr kunac iz publike kaže: "Stiže Lepa Brena". :)

Ja sam otputovao pre nego sto je DARK KNIGHT izasao. Medjutim, moram priznati da nemam velika ocekivanja od tog filma, posto nisam siguran da je Nolan dorastao tom zadatku, ne samo u kreativnom vec u cisto zanatskom smislu, sto su INSOMNIA i BATMAN BEGINS pokazali, i raduju me sveza misljenja koja se ne izrazavaju u superlativu vec stosta dovode u pitanje...

MOVIES
Secrecy cloaked 'Dark Knight'
Warner Bros. took painstaking care to thwart pirates ahead of the film's premier, and the effort paid off.
By Dawn C. Chmielewski, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
July 28, 2008
For Warner Bros., the mission was to keep "The Dark Knight" from seeing the light of day.

In an era of instantaneous digital copying and widely available high-speed Internet access, the premature and unauthorized release of a movie to the public -- especially a coveted summer blockbuster -- can spell disaster. If the movie's a stinker, the word will travel at the speed of a mouse click, ruining chances of making back money. And if the movie's popular, piracy can rob ticket sales and cut into revenue.

Executives at Warner Bros. knew they didn't have to worry about the first scenario: Buzz had been building for months about late actor Heath Ledger's performance as the Joker and director Christopher Nolan's dark rendition of the Batman legend. And marketing surveys pointed to a record-smashing opening weekend for "The Dark Knight" at the box office.

Instead, Warner Bros. was worried about what would happen if a copy of the movie slipped into public before the theatrical opening, which would result in it competing against pirated DVD copies. The ardent fan-boy appeal of "The Dark Knight" created opportunity and risk in equal measure for the studio.

The Batman sequel's core audience of superhero geeks is the same group of young men who gravitate to online file-sharing communities. Fear that pirated copies would pop up on the Internet during the film's crucial opening weekend prompted Warner to devote six months to an unprecedented anti-piracy strategy, painstakingly locking down the movie as it moved from production to post-production to movie theaters.

Warner created a "chain of custody" to track who had access to the film at any moment. It varied the shipping and delivery methods, staggering the delivery of film reels, so the entire movie wouldn't arrive at multiplexes in one shipment, in order to reduce risk of an entire copy being lost or stolen. It conducted spot checks of hundreds of theaters domestically and abroad, to ensure that illegal camcording wasn't taking place. It even handed out night-vision goggles to exhibitors in Australia, where the film opened two days before its U.S. launch, to scan the audience for the telltale infrared signal of a camcorder.

Warner Bros. executives said the extra vigilance paid off, helping to prevent camcorded copies of the reported $180-million film from reaching Internet file-sharing sites for about 38 hours. Although that doesn't sound like much progress, it was enough time to keep bootleg DVDs off the streets as the film racked up a record-breaking $158.4 million on opening weekend. The movie has now taken in more than $300 million.

The success of an anti-piracy campaign is measured in the number of hours it buys before the digital dam breaks.

"One of the reasons why it's so important to try to protect the first weekend is that it prevents the pirate supply chain from starting," said Darcy Antonellis, president of Warner's distribution and technical operations. "A day or two becomes really, really significant. You've delayed disc manufacturing that then delays distribution, which then delays those discs from ending up on street corners for sale."

Piracy experts say such tight security measures are now commonplace among studios seeking to protect big-budget summer blockbusters.

Studios fear a reprise of the "Hulk" piracy debacle. A rough, early version of Ang Lee's 2003 summer movie made its way to the Internet two weeks before the film's scheduled premiere, provoking negative reactions from the comic-book film's devoted fans, whose opinion carries far more weight in determining the success of this film genre than that of mainstream film critics.

"A lot of people decided not to go near it. Hollywood argued, correctly, that many more people would have gone to see it, had online buzz not been so critical of the movie," said Eric Garland, chief executive of BigChampagne Online Media Measurement, which monitors file-sharing networks and is a consultant to the entertainmentindustry.

"Hulk" still had an impressive opening, grossing $62 million in its first weekend. But by the second week, mediocre reviews and corrosive word of mouth pushed grosses down 70%. The studios aren't eager to give the audience advance -- and uncontrolled -- viewings of its tent-pole films.

"If the movie's a stiff, and word gets out too early that it's a stiff, it's devastating to the business model," Garland said.

Paul Kocher, president of Cryptography Research Inc., a San Francisco company that develops anti-piracy technology, said that unlike with music, one viewing of a film -- even in blurry, camcorded form -- often is enough.

"With rare exception, once you've seen the movie you're unlikely to watch it a second time," Kocher said. "You don't have the benefit the music guys have, that piracy can help build buzz. For the movie industry, it's purely a destructive force."

Studios use tracking methods to keep tabs on who handles a film and when, and mark the prints sent to theaters. That makes it possible to identify where a pirated copy was recorded, Kocher said.

The thorniest issue, when it comes to anti-piracy measures, is advance screenings. Studios balance the desire to perform the kind of rigorous bag checks that would make airport security blush against the fear of antagonizing critics.

"That's the one where there's the endless debate about what you do," Kocher said.

Big-budget summer popcorn flicks hold powerful lure for Internet bootleggers. Last year's Disney/Pixar Animation Studios animated film "Ratatouille" leaked out five days ahead of its cinematic premiere, and George Lucas' 2005 film, "Star Wars: Episode III Revenge of the Sith," similarly found its way to file-sharing networks days before it reached the big screen. The illicit Star Wars copy contained time codes indicating it slipped out of post-production. It nonetheless went on to gross $380 million domestically.

Michael Robinson, the Motion Picture Assn. of America's director of North American anti-piracy, said all the studios had improved security at post-production facilities. The trade group, in turn, uses a combination of gumshoe tactics and technology to crack down on piracy after the fact, going so far as to follow suspected pirates into theaters.

"At any given time, there are only a handful of truly professional camcorders out there who are recording," said Robinson, who spent 30 years in law enforcement, including a dozen years as head of the Michigan state police. But all it takes is one good-quality recording to generate thousands of Internet downloads and bootlegged DVDs sold at swap meets.

MPAA investigators used the lure of "The Dark Knight" to catch a suspected bootlegger in the act during a 9:40 a.m. showing in a theater in a southeast suburb of Kansas City, Mo.

A Lee's Summit Police Department spokesman said the MPAA investigators spotted the man in the back row of the theater, trying to cloak his video camera with black tarps as he allegedly made an illicit recording. A subsequent police search of the man's home turned up hundreds of DVDs that are believed to be pirated, the spokesman said. The case has been referred to the FBI.

"This wasn't necessarily one of our most covert operations," Robinson said. The investigators in the theater looked like G-men from central casting, wearing MPAA letters emblazoned on their shirts. "It was kind of brazen on this guy's part. Maybe he thought all the MPAA did was rate the movies."

It's hard to quantify how the broad availability of pirated online copies of films affects box-office receipts. But a study commissioned by the MPAA found that Hollywood's major studios lost $6.1 billion to film theft in 2005.

Warner Bros took no chances with "Dark Knight," a movie that opened in 12 overseas markets before it reached the U.S. It even maintained a swat team of sorts, composed of the piracy and production teams, which remained in constant contact as they continuously scanned the pirate networks throughout the weekend for illicit copies.

"As we have often said, we view piracy as a competitor," Warner distribution chief Antonellis said.

Still, the anti-piracy hurdles are enormous, and in the end success is determined by how long a studio can stave off the inevitable.

The first pirated copy of "The Dark Knight" was available on a top-level pirate site by Friday night, two days after its Australian premiere, said Mark Ishikawa, chief executive of BayTSP Inc., a Los Gatos firm that does online tracking of copyrighted works. By Sunday, it could be downloaded on BitTorrent file-sharing sites or viewed on YouTube, he said.

"Such a widely released film in such high demand, by virtue of its following, significantly increased chat and overall online interest in the title within pirate networks," Antonellis said. "Whenever those factors come together, it makes our challenges from an anti-piracy perspective much harder."

Film censor defends Batman rating

The BBFC has justified giving The Dark Knight a 12A certificate after getting more than 80 complaints about the Batman film's disturbing content.

The film regulator's spokeswoman Sue Clark* said the sequel was a fantasy movie with only implied violence.

But she admitted that the British Board of Film Classification had carefully considered giving it a 15 rating.

The 12A rating states that a film should not "dwell on violence" and "does not emphasise injury or blood".

The film contains a scene in which The Joker, played by the late Heath Ledger, is beaten repeatedly by Batman in a police cell.

QuoteThe Dark Knight should be a 15 certificate

Keith Vaz MP**, Home Affairs Select Committee chairman

Fans denied

The BBFC ruled that the blows were "masked from the camera" and there was "no sign of injury".

It conceded that there was a "good deal of violence" in the movie, but said it adhered to the rules of the 12A certificate.

But Keith Vaz MP, who chairs the Home Affairs Select Committee, said the 12A certificate was too low, adding that he was concerned by The Joker's use of a knife in the film.

He told The Independent newspaper: "The BBFC should realise there are scenes of gratuitous violence in The Dark Knight to which I certainly would not take my 11-year-old daughter. It should be a 15 certificate."

Ms Clark emphasised the fantasy nature of The Dark Knight and its basis in comic books.

"Batman can jump off buildings and fly and The Joker is not a realistic character and bounces back with a smile on his face."

She added that a 15 certificate would have denied an important part of the superhero's fan base the chance to see the film.

"Younger teenagers would not have been able to see it, and they are the very people who are going to love it.

"We would have ended up with far more complaints from people who wanted to see the film and couldn't," said Ms Clark.

She added that the number of complaints was low relative to the number of people who had seen the film.

Some 4.7 million tickets for The Dark Knight have been sold in the UK to date.

Box office success

Meanwhile, The Dark Knight is on track to become the second-biggest movie of all time after topping the North American box office for a third week.

The film took $43.8m (£22.2m), taking its total US haul to $394.9m (£200m).

Warner Bros said it expected the Batman film to take at least another $100m (£51m), surpassing Star Wars - the number two movie of all time in the US.

The sci-fi film took $461m (£234m). The current number one is 1997's Titanic, which took $601m (£305m).

*
http://www.out-law.com/page-7030
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2002/jun/12/localgovernment.2002inreview
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4159/is_20040613/ai_n12756630

**
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1137824.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/3659120.stm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/2234527/Gordon-Brown-under-pressure-over-%27reward%27-for-Keith-Vaz-over-terror-bill.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1321059/Vaz-in-deep-trouble-over-%27missing%27-election-cash.html

Heh... Keith Vaz....

Nego, da ne ispadne da sam ja jedini koji se iščuđavao Bejlovom dejtrejp glasu:

http://movies.yahoo.com/mv/news/ap/20080803/121779624000.html

QuoteMonday Movie Buzz: Bale's Batman voice too much?
Sunday August 3 1:44 PM ET


Though "The Dark Knight" has been a bona fide cultural event, boasting rave reviews and boffo box office, it hasn't been immune to criticism. Some have quibbled with its political undercurrents, and others have criticized a muddled theme.

But here's the critique most widely held: Why does Batman talk like the offspring of Clint Eastwood and a grizzly bear?

Donning the costume for the second time, Christian Bale has delved deeper into the lower registers. As Bruce Wayne, his voice is as smooth as his finely pressed suits. But once he puts the cape on, the transformation of his vocal chords is just as dramatic as his costume change.

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Particularly when his rage boils over, Bale's Batman growls in an almost beastly fashion, reflecting how close he teeters between do-gooder and vengeance-crazed crusader.

"The Dark Knight" hauled in $43.8 million to rank as Hollywood's top movie for the third straight weekend, fending off "The Mummy: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor" which opened a close second with $42.5 million. It has earned $394.9 million in just 17 days, according to studio estimates Sunday.

Though much of the voice effect is Bale's own doing, under the guidance of director Christopher Nolan and supervising sound editor Richard King, the frequency of his Batman voice was modulated to exaggerate the effect.

Critics and fans have noticed.

"His Batman rasps his lines in a voice that's deeper and hammier than ever," said NPR's David Edelstein.

The New Yorker's David Denby praised the urgency of Bale's Batman, but lamented that he "delivers his lines in a hoarse voice with an unvarying inflection."

Reviewing the film for MSNBC, Alonso Duralde wrote that Bale's Batman in "Batman Begins" "sounded absurdly deep, like a 10-year-old putting on an `adult' voice to make prank phone calls. This time, Bale affects an eerie rasp, somewhat akin to Brenda Vaccaro doing a Miles Davis impression."

Before the similes run too far afield, it's worth considering where the concept of a throaty Batman comes from.

In his portrayal on the `60s "Batman" TV series, Adam West didn't alter his voice between Bruce Wayne and Batman. Decades later when Tim Burton brought "Batman" to the big screen in a much darker incarnation, Michael Keaton's inflection was notably but not considerably different from one to the other.

But it was a lesser-known actor who, a few years after Burton's film, made perhaps the most distinct imprint on Batman's voice. Kevin Conroy, as the voice of the animated Batman in various projects from 1992's "Batman: The Animated Series" right up until this year's "Batman: Gotham Knight," brought a darker, raspier vocalization to Batman.

Conroy has inhabit the role longer than anyone else and though animated voice-over work doesn't have the same cachet as feature film acting, there are quarters where Conroy is viewed as the best Batman of them all certainly superior to Val Kilmer or George Clooney.

The animated series are notable because they drew on the DC Comics of Batman as envisioned by Frank Miller, whose work heavily informs "Batman Begins" and "The Dark Knight." (Bale and Nolan were unavailable to comment for this story.)

As Batman has gotten darker, his voice has gotten deeper. As some critics suggest, Bale and "The Dark Knight" may have reached a threshold, at least audibly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2yv8aT0UFc
:)

Heh, heh, baš tako. :D  :D  :D

"Are you speaking bat? Is that what bat sounds like?"

"enunciate, enun-tsch!"  :P :evil:

http://www.popboks.com/tekst.php?ID=6637

Izašao novi YC i u njemu tri kritike Dark Knighta; ja sam mu dao 4+ što je zaokruženo na 5, dok je u novom Huperu je ta ista ocena mutirala u 3+, pa sad ispadoh šizofrenik budući da su kritike gotovo iste tj. u Huperu je extended verzija teksta.  :)

Kao veliki ljubitelj filma 'Batman Begins', od 'Dark Knight-a' sam očekivao da bude ili istog ili malo boljeg kvaliteta. Dobio sam film koji je i bolji i gori, a sveukupno je impresivan i nipošto nije razočarenje.

Pametno sam izbjegao da čitam bilo šta o ovom filmu, osim box office podataka. Dakle, odgledao sam ga bez pročitane kritike i hinta o tome šta će se dešavati. Na kraju sam došao do djela koje me tokom svog (nepotrebno) dugog trajanja u par navrata oduševilo više nego što sam očekivao, ali koje mi je tokom poslednjih dvadeset minuta bilo neočekivano razočarenje i drastično smanjilo konačnu ocjenu.

Što se tiče glume, sve je već rečeno, pa da se ne ponavljam. Hit Ledžer je, štosekaže, odigrao jednog potpuno novog i ozbiljno poremećenog Džokera, čije su replike pravi biseri kojih ćete se sjećati i nakon što izađete iz bioskopa. Scenario je (ako izuzmemo monolog na kraju) za klasu kvalitetniji od onoga što se očekuje u filmovima ovog tipa. Vjerovatno ću biti jedan od rijetkih koji nije razočaran Bejlovom glumom - u očajnom 'Iron Man-u' postoji jedna jedina scena u kojoj R. D. Junior izgleda kul, a to je kada izbaci onu raketu na tenk, a onda se okrene i ode. Betmen takve scene isporučuje tempom od deset u minuti. Sve što sam htio da Betmen uradi prije filma, on je i uradio. Pokazlo se da je Bejl pravi izbor za tu ulogu, i koliko god se hvalila Džokerova gluma (koja je, slično kao u 'No country for the old men', posljedica toga da je postavka lika sama po sebi intrigantna), meni je suptilni Bejl isporučio sve što sam očekivao. Taj lik zrači jednim gotovo psihopatskim mirom i arogancijom koja pokazuje poremećenost ravnu Džokerovoj. Džoker, opet, kao čovjek koji samo želi da gleda kako svijet gori, nije čovjek bez motiva. Iako se kroz film više puta provlači ono da je 'Džoker lud samo da bi bio lud', prava istina (oličena u 'White Knight' priči) je da je Džoker čovjek koji smatra da su svi ljudi poremećeni, a on je tu samo kako bi pomogao da se njihovo sopstveno ludilo izrazi. Dakle, nije Džoker to što izludi ljude - on je samo režiser koji postavlja kulise da sopstveno ludilo protagonista ispliva na površinu. Evidentan je uticaj stripa 'Watchmen' na ovaj film - recimo da je Džoker modeliran po uzoru na komedijaša, dok bi Betmen bio bogata i društveno prihvatljiva verzija Roršarha. Ova predivna postavka o ljudskom ludilu i kulisama bi porodila najbolji superherojski film ikada, kome bi dao 10/10 na neviđeno, da se u konceptu istrajalo do kraja. Kao gledalac, oduševljavala me sposobnost da predvidim kuda film vodi, pa onda sebi kažem 'ne, nema šanse da se nešto toliko dobro desi u holivudskom filmu', kad odjednom film iznenadi ciničnog mene i isporuči mi baš ono što sam očekivao. Tako se desilo da sam rekao sebi 'baš bi bilo super kad bi Džoker Betmenu dao pogrešnu adresu, te kad bi ovaj greškom spasio Harvija Denta' i gle čuda - baš to se i DOGODI. Da ne davim, takvih scena ima više. Međutim, ključni dio u filmu sa brodom, natjerao me da kažem sebi - 'Ako ovo urade, ovo je jedan od najboljih filmova ikad'. Imate scenu u kojoj gledamo dva broda pri čemu zapovjednik prvog broda ima detonator drugog i obratno. Na jednom brodu su pošteni civili, na drugom vezani zatvorenici. Ako niko nikoga ne digne u vazduh - Džoker oba broda diže u vazduh u ponoć. Postavka odlična. Moje misli: detonator na brodu diže u vazduh sam taj brod. Da sam na pravom putu za ovako nešto (što bi meni bio apsolutni vrh) pokazuju mi Džokerove laži o ožiljcima, maskiranje talaca u kriminalce, a kriminalaca u ljekare i slično. Dolazi ključna scena. Na brodu zatvorenika, zatvorenik izbaci detonator kroz prozor. Ja oduševljen. Pa ovo će da bude bolje nego što sam ja mislio - ispašće da su promijenjeni kriminalci više ljudi nego tzv. civili. Žedno čekam detonaciju, spreman da petominutno aplaudiram bez obzira na reakciju ljudi oko sebe. I stvarno, na brodu civila, civil se sprema da digne brod u vazduh. Šta se dešava? Pod jedan, Džoker nije lagao, te bi se stvarno digao u vazduh drugi brod. To bude loše, ali onda slijedi totalni let down: civil koji treba da pritisne dugme u napadu imbecilne, nerealne i sveopšte dobrote odluči da poštedi brod kriminalaca, čak i po cijenu sopstvene smrti. Ovo je prelomni trenutak u filmu poslije koga je sve otišlo dođavola. Do tada, ja sam gledao skijaša koji kod prolaznih vremena u slalomu obori svaki mogući rekord na prva četiri prolaza, ali između četvrtog i petog promaši svaku zastavicu, cilj na kraju, i još se spotakne ispred navijača i tresne na dupe nedovoljno jako da se povrijedi, ali dovoljno jako da to bude smiješno i visi na youtube. Kraj filma je zaista očajan i ja zaista ne znam šta im je ono trebalo. Stvari se ne popravljaju - potpuno suprotno, bivaju gore. Na kraju, umjesto priče o ljuskoj prirodi, dobijamo 'Dan Nezavisnosti' i jedan američki proizvod čije se jeftine propagande ne bi postidio ni 'Rambo 3'. Režiser nam poslednjom scenom kaže - jeste, djeco, Betmen je poremećen, lud, ubija ljude, može mu se... ali on to radi for greater good. Ovo 'Greater Good' treba da izaziva desničarski ponos, da osmisli sve moguće ratove koje je Amerika vodila zadnjih milion godina, ali za mene, to je 'Greater Good' iz filma 'Hot Fuzz' sa Geri Oldmanom kao američkom verzijom superiornog Timoti Daltona. Sa te strane, 'Dark Knight' je stvarno nov film. Sve do sada, amerikanci su bili good guys, ali ovaj film poručuje:'Jeste, mi pravimo sranja, ubijamo i sve, ali vi to ne shvatate, jer je velika slika toliko velika da vaši mozgovi ne mogu da je pojme.' Betmen može. Sve u svemu, velika je šteta što je univerzalna priča o ludilu i ljudskoj prirodi na kraju pretvorena u prilično prizemnu i providnu patriotsku tiradu. Zbog toga, za 20 godina, Betmen će biti prevaziđen na isti način na koji je danas prevaziđena retorika 'Ramba 3' ili 'Dana nezavisnosti' (koji već sada izgleda strašno naivno). To je velika šteta, jer ono što vidimo u prvih sat i po vremena je, za mene, najbolji superherojski film koji sam ikada gledao. Zbog ovako velikog propusta koji obesmišljava prethodne napore, jasno je da konačna ocjena ni uz najbolju volju (a ima je) ne može da prebaci 8+/10. Da ne bude zabune - ovo je za klasu iznad 'Spidermena', 'Irom-mana' i ostalog što možete da pogledate u bioskopu. Ovjeravam ga ponovo i ako mi bude bolji - javljam se opet. Pozdrav.

edit: Sad vidjeh da je Žižek napisao slično što i ja na prethodnoj strani ovog topika. Ne znam da li da se zabrinem ili radujem.

Potpisujem!
Nisam baš sasvim siguran za ovaj podtekst sa američkom propagandom (Nolan je valjda Englez?), ali nepobitno je da se inače odličan filma potpuno surva nakon pomenute scene sa detonatorom. Za vrijeme završnog Gordonovog monologa osjećao sam se kao da mi neko ukucava eksere u glavu.

A ni meni nije jasno zašto Betmen govori kao da ima problema sa tvrdom stolicom.

ja mnogo volim američke mejnstrim filmove u kojima se postavlja pitanje "da li poštovati zakon ili uzeti stvar u svoje ruke". i da li branioci zakona smeju da iznevere zakon. i po koju cenu.

mada, čekaj... pa ima li neki film da su ga proglasili "velikom umeeetnošću" a da nema ovu dilemu?... ima li nekih drugih "velikih dilema" možda?

:roll:

Reminderovali ste me na ovu, jedan Betmen film staru, foru:

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Blejde, elementi Jokerovog lika koje pominješ (smatra da su svi ludi i samo im provajduje mogućnost da to pokažu, priča različite priče o svojim ožiljcima i poreklu) su prilično verbatim prepisani iz Mooreovog The Killing Joke

http://upps-sajt.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=718&Itemid=48

Što ne treba hvatiti kao negativan komentar, da ne bude zabune, nego tebi skrećem pažnju na taj strip, možda bi ti bio interesantan.

Tokom filma u par navrata setio sam se stripa Arkham Asylum. Portreti Betmena i Džokera, njihov odnos... Strip je klasika, čak i ako zanemarimo vizuelnu stranu (koja je klasa za sebe).

Ja sam se više prisećao Killing Jokea (scena kad Beti saslušava Džokija) i recimo Long Halloweena.

Ja sam setio toga kako je Beli put najavio grafičke novele sa Betmenom.  :(

Beli šta?

Quote from: "DušMan"Sad shvatam zašto je 'comic book geek' isključivi stereotip muškaraca. Žene se ne razumeju u strip. A ni u film. Zapravo, žene služe za kuvanje ručka. I za seks. Ostalo treba prepustiti muškarcima.

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Čestitam novom članu foruma što je već svojim prvim postom pokazao da ne razume koncept ironije.  :lol:

Potpuno nevezano za tragicnu nemogucnost praivlne percepcije ironije, xkcd je najbolji web comic liek evah.  :lol:

To je matematički nemoguće (un-possible!!!) jer je najbolji web komik Dr. McNinja, kao što sam dokazao prošle nedelje na UPPSu. Ali priznajem da je u vrhu.

@ Pera u strini:
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Meho Krljic

QuoteBlejde, elementi Jokerovog lika koje pominješ (smatra da su svi ludi i samo im provajduje mogućnost da to pokažu, priča različite priče o svojim ožiljcima i poreklu) su prilično verbatim prepisani iz Mooreovog The Killing Joke

Code:
http://upps-sajt.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=718&Itemid=48

Što ne treba hvatiti kao negativan komentar, da ne bude zabune, nego tebi skrećem pažnju na taj strip, možda bi ti bio interesantan.

Hvala! Gledaću da nabavim i pročitam. Tačno sam predosjetio da je Moore influenced, pa sam zato spomenuo 'Watchmen'. Sada vidim da je on tu dobitnu kombinaciju koristio više puta, for better or worse.

Zika Kisobranac

Quoteja mnogo volim američke mejnstrim filmove u kojima se postavlja pitanje "da li poštovati zakon ili uzeti stvar u svoje ruke". i da li branioci zakona smeju da iznevere zakon. i po koju cenu.

mada, čekaj... pa ima li neki film da su ga proglasili "velikom umeeetnošću" a da nema ovu dilemu?... ima li nekih drugih "velikih dilema" možda?

Nisam siguran da se ovo, sa sve smajlijem koji prevrće očima na kraju, odnosi na ono moje da film umjesto storije o ljudskoj psihologiji i ludilu, isporuči prilično jeftinu patriotsku tiradu. Ako se misli na to, fraza "da li poštovati zakon ili uzeti stvar u svoje ruke" nije dilema, jer se ove dvije mogućnosti nužno ne isključuju. Recimo, 'Fantastična četvorka' i poštuje zakon i uzima stvar u svoje ruke (zato, između ostalog, nemaju problem sa javnim identitetom). Ako se čak može naći superherojski film koji u sebi nema ovakvu dilemu, šta onda reći za kompletan mainstream? Obaška što ne znam ko su to 'oni' koji proglašavaju nešto umjetnošću ili ne - to je, valjda, pitanje ličnog ukusa. Možda neka superherojska liga džentlmena - filmskih kričara?

Ako se, pak, misli na nešto drugo, ili nisam dobro shvatio, ili mi je nešto promaklo, please ignore. Pozdrav.

ma ne, ne... nisam imao u vidu tvoj post...

nešto sam bulaznio onako, za sebe. štaviše, couldn't agree more s tobom da je na kraju jeftina patriotska tirada. i providna pritom. a što se tiče lige kritičarskih džentlmena, da, čitao sam neke pohvale dark knightu i dubioze poput ove Kennetha Turana: "It's not the good Batman does but the vigilante nature of his methods ("Batman: Crusader or Menace?" screams a TV news report) that people focus on. Bale's dead-serious demeanor helps define a character who's troubled that no one without a mask has stepped up to help and increasingly worried that the act of taking the law into his own hands will further destabilize the situation."

eto - daj američkim kritičarima malo "jeftinog patriotskog" palamuđenja oko patriot acta, terorizma, moralnog kolapsa, i malo dilema a la Zodiac, Prljavi Hari, Street Kings - da l' da radimo sve po zakonu, ili da uzmemo mač, jer plač je plač - i odmah je u pitanju velika umetnost. prosto sam zbunjen kako se lako prime.

eto to je to. please ignore, što reče.

Evo za megagikove i za filmske profesionalce, daunloud od 52 megabajta:

http://rapidshare.com/files/140299373/The_Dark_Knight_Featuring_Production_Art___Full_Shooting_Script__2008__Mazen-DCP_.cbr

Dakle, mala priča o filmu, malo storyboardova, gomila super fotografija i ceo shooting script. Nemojte posle da kažete da vas Meho ne voli.

The Top 10 Batman Toys

http://comics.ign.com/articles/902/902788p1.html

pogledah u razmaku manjem od 24 časa i DARKA KNIGHTA i IRONA MANA, oba na odličnim DVD ripovima (uz svu dobru volju i pokušaje, nije mi se dalo da DARKA pogledam u Bgdu u bionji! :(  ).

ocene su: osrednja trojka za betmena i 2+ za gvozdena.

BETMEN:
+ uvodna scena pljačke
+ nestajanje olovke
+ ledger (onda kad ne preglumljuje)
+ dobra dinamika, uprkos preteranom i prenabudženom trajanju, tokom većeg dela filma
+ mračni ton
+ sve u svemu, pitko i prilično zabavno

- 'MASTER wayne' – ja jesam elitista, ali nisam aristokrata i zaista mi je gnusno da navijam za lika koga najbliži prijatelj i pomoćnik i životospasitelj oslovljava sa 'GOSPODARU' a da mu ovaj ne kaže u nekom trenutku 'ma u redu je, naši smo, pređi na 'ti''!
- betmenov glas (zaista, smešno!)
- ledger onda kad preglumljuje; a povremeno čak (bizarno!) skida mimiku goldblumovog brundlefly-a (sa tikovima i treptanjem i trzanjem u stranu praćeno oblizivanjem)!
- megi gilenhal izgleda kao karikatura žene koju je nacrtao neki ženomrzac tako da mi je bila eyesore gdegod se pojavila i ukiseljivala kadar svojom pojavom.
- bejl je dosadan i kao pojava i kao lik (tj b. vejn)
- nisu dovoljno potencirali to da je on (i zašto je on) MRAČNI vitez; vejnova psihopatlogija jedva je okrznuta!
- predvidivi momenti, kao npr. gordonova 'pogibija'
- to je praćeno zaista najdebilnijim dečjim likom u mom recentnom gledalačkom iskustvu. pazi ovo: dođu pajkani kod gordonove žene i kažu da joj muž zaginuo. klinac to prati, vidi majku kako plače, shvata... sledeća scena u kojoj ga vidimo: 'mrtvi' ćale ga miluje dok ovaj spava. klinja se budi. nebeči oči. ne raduje se: 'tata! pa ti si živ?! kako...? zašto...?!' ne, ništa od toga. njegova filmska sestrica je ona šlajmalanova koja kaže 'tata, u avliji je monstrum a ja bih tela čašu vode.' tako i ovaj klinja, neuzbuđeno, ravno, kaže: 'tata, jel te to betmen spaso?' njegova opsesija betmenom je zaista bolesna, jer i na kraju filma više brige ispoljava za to kako je betmen i dal je dobro, ni brigajući ni za sebe ni za oca u smrtnoj opasnosti... zaista – ljiga!
- dobrota end čovekoljublje koje ispoljavaju ljudi na miniranim brodićima na kraju
- fali mi bre masterplan zlikovca, volim da imam preglednu priču sa jasnim ciljem, a ovo mi je prečesto delovalo nabacano (kao što cutter reče) i proizvoljno konstruisano.
- ideološki momenti, koje je blejd raner apsolvirao dovoljno da ne moram da ponavljam.
- previše je bre to stripovski za moj ukus, ne mogu da se skroz unesem u ove rabote i da ih ozbiljno svatim pa to ti je! što više potenciraju 'dramu' i 'realizam' meni to glasnije škripi. za moj groš to jedino može da bude ozbiljno onda kad se ne trsi da jeste (BATMAN RETURNS).


GVOZDEN:
+ dauni jr, moj omiljeni glumac
+ odlični viz. efekti, roboti, mehanika, dizajn, sve glatko i kako treba
+ posle megi gilenhal, čak i gvinet paltrou izgleda podnošljivo (ali jedva)!

- ideološki momenti, koje na gvozdenovom topiku niko nije razradio pa da ih samo potpišem, a mene sad mrzi da ulazim u njih
- prilično prozaičan zaplet koji se ne bavi svojom pričom, bedasto zaobilazi centralne dileme (naoružanje, war on terror etc.) i svodi se na transformers za 2-3 godine stariju publiku
- nespektakularni okršaji, a naročito finalni.
- previše je bre to stripovski za moj ukus, ne mogu da se skroz unesem u ove rabote i da ih ozbiljno svatim pa to ti je! što više potenciraju 'dramu' i 'realizam' i alizije na stvarni svet (avganistan itd.) - meni to glasnije škripi.

Idealna double bill varijanta za Dark Knighta!

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upravo pogledah...

:lol:

Bio sam malo preumoran za vreme bioskopske projekcije, pa mi (pr)ocena nije iskristalisana, ali slutim da je film remek delo sa greškom (ah, taj kraj) ili bar skoro remek-delo.
Malo je filmova danas čije akcione scene mogu da (me) impresioniraju (čak i sjajne kao u novom Indijani), ali neke scene novog Betmana upravo uspevaju to. Tempo i tenzija prisutni tokom celog filma su fascinantni. Dramatika i gluma na nivou; Ledžerova poslednja uloga je odlična (jeste opšte mesto, ali šta ću) i nikako nije preglumljena (kao ni kod Nikolsona, nekada), jer lik Džokera i treba da bude teatralan. Dijalozi su daleko od zaboravljivih.

Lepo je videti da je cela ekipa, na čelu sa Nolanom i bratom povereni Bet-zadatak shvatila tako ozbiljno. Rezultat nije izostao.

9/10 ili 10/10, moram da proverim još jedan put

"The Dark Knight" arrives on DVD shelves riding a wave of hype as the second-highest grossing film of all time, but the two-disc special edition DVD leaves much to be desired in terms of extras. Director Christopher Nolan raised the bar for comicbook movies with his second take on the Caped Crusader's evolving story but his epic crime saga deserves a better homevid release.
Despite having made the equivalent of the gross national product of a third world country on the film's initial theatrical release, Warner Bros. has decided to deprive fans with the release of this barebones edition. Sorry, but the Joker playing cards, Two-Face coins and Batman masks (available exclusively at various retail outlets) don't make up for the disappointment.

The most intriguing special feature is six episodes of "Gotham Tonight," a series of special news reports featuring Mike Engel (Anthony Michael Hall) and Lydia Filangeri (Lauren Sanchez) that serves as a helpful bridge between "Batman Begins" and "The Dark Knight." Each installment focuses on a different character or theme, and although these segments run a little long and hammer a lot of the same points, they're great fun and do a surprisingly strong job of fleshing out the world of Gotham City.

The Bruce Wayne episode provides illuminating exposition on his childhood and private life, including his parents' murder and his relationships with caretaker Alfred and longtime love interest Rachel Dawes.

Another episode about crime and justice covers plenty of territory. Talking heads debate Dent's prosecutorial misdeeds and his alleged witch hunt inside the police department, corruption amongst city officials as well as Batman's impact on Gotham; one so-called expert argues that he could inspire the whole city to take the law into their own hands.

"Gotham Tonight" saves the best for last -- an interview with newly elected District Attorney Harvey Dent, who fields live calls and fancies himself an advocate for the city while defending himself from accusations of being a publicity hound. The last episode is interrupted by breaking news of the Joker's bank heist that opens "The Dark Knight," one of six scenes available to be viewed in its original IMAX framing as intended.

There's also "Gotham Uncovered," which boasts fascinating footage of the Batpod's early test-runs and reveals secrets of the sound team as well as the crew's concern that Batman's cape could get caught in the wheel. Meanwhile, "The Sound of Anarchy" explores the sound of the Joker, which is described as "the key musical element to the film." Composer Hans Zimmer talks about how he "didn't want to write a summer blockbuster -- a happy, indulgent score." He wanted something "truly provocative, that people could truly hate," and with some prodding from Nolan, he made the conscious decision to "step out on the edge." The feature allows fans to witness the entire process from the Oscar-winning composer.

The Joker's theme reflects the story's mounting tension and the punk influence that Ledger brought to the villain. Zimmer utilized the fragmented results of razorblade and piano wire experiments and tapped a cellist to help create the edgy tone. The result, as he describes it, is a minimal sound featuring two notes that clash beautifully, like a taut string that gets tighter and tighter but never breaks, drawing you in with a whisper, rather than a scream.

The DVD also features some truly inspired poster art, a healthy number of production stills and several trailers.

As for the missing elements, where is the audio commentary? Maybe Nolan wasn't available, but surely an actor or producer could have offered their insight. If one appears on a future DVD, the omission here -- while the film is still relatively fresh on viewers' minds -- will seem like a way to gouge fans.

There's also nary a deleted scene or tribute to Heath Ledger, who tragically died before the movie was released. Both would seem worthy as an extra. The relatively brief behind-the-scenes features provide a real sense of how absolutely integral Nolan is to this franchise's success. As one production staffer puts it, the crew "becomes a part of Nolan's vision and he inspires them."

For those who missed the theatrical release of "The Dark Knight," better to wait for the Jan. 23 re-release. The diehards, however, will want to own this box office behemoth right away, even if the next edition promises to satisfy more than this one.

par brzopoteznih

dark knight je dovoljno plitak film, da ga ljudi mogu doživljavati kao epohalnog, intelektualnog i dubokoumnog. što oni i čine, te mu kače epitete i podržavaju famu
dark knight je ujedno i veliki režimski film i podilaženje masi: 'strukture ga dobro furaju' jer ističe da je heroj zakon, sustav - ljudima treba ostaviti vjeru u javnog tužitelja, jer je on taj koji se bori 'pravedno i objektivno': on iza sebe ima zakon, sustav, državu, a batman, kao pravi šonjo, prihvaća tu spiku i uperuje šišmiševskim prstom u 'objektivno-pravednog javnog tužitelja'; podilaženje masi je u njihovoj svinjskoj zavisti, masi koja razapinje bezgrešne, te tako batman mora biti istaknut kao 'mračni vitez', sa svojim demonima. umjesto da bude pravi romantičarski heroj, iz dobrih starih idealističkih vremena.

preciznije, veliki režimski desni film - tužiteljeva lijeva strana lica je čudovišna, zla, pa mu batman okreće desnu milu, plemenitu i dobru stranu kada odluči ponuditi ljudima utješnu priču o neokaljanom borcu za dobrobit svih...

+

o batman begins, o toj konačnoj istini o batmanu. kako je batman postao batman? duboko u sebi je potražio istinu i to ju je pronašao daleko na istoku, nekakvu zen-istinu. a radi se o tome da je zapravo, kao mali šmokljan, pao u najobičniju grabu. i onda se radi klasično povezivanje vanjskog i unutrašnjeg pada (pad u grabu paralelno sa padom u dubinu psihe) i tu se skriva 'istina'. istina se zove šišmiš, a još više se zove iluzija. mogao je u grabi biti dabar, npr. ovo povezivanje vanjskog i unutrašnjeg svijeta je ingeniozna klasika, i rabi se u jačim filmovima nego što su to ovi o batmanu - recimo, u veličinama tipa Aguirre, der Zorn Gottes i Apokalipsa (tamo junaci ne padaju u grabu, nego putuju na daleka suluda mjesta, u srce tame, te istovremeno putuju u ponore ludila)

Hit Ledzer posthumno osvojio Zlatni globus, za najbolju sporednu musku ulogu!

Doneo sam iz Engleske DVD izdanje i primetio da su mu nakačili neku novu zaštitu (isto važi i za Wall-E) - niti mogu da ga ripujem u avi niti da uradim backup DVD-a uobičajenim metodama. Oh, well...

Jesi li probao Alcoholom 120%?

Quote from: "mac"Jesi li probao Alcoholom 120%?

Nemam to - za ripovanje u avi koristim Gordian Knot, a za DVD - DVD Shrink.

da nisi kupio blue ray?

Quote from: "starla"da nisi kupio blue ray?

Hahaha. Nisam. Kod DVD Shrinka su simptomi sledeći: prvi put je prošao kroz Dark Knight-a da mu evaluira veličinu, a onda je jednostavno prestao da reaguje na taj disk - sa svim ostalim radi i dalje normalno, ali taj - ni da pomiriše.
A kod Wall-Ea mi je prošao kroz ceo disk i rekao da se ne može raditi kompresija.
Šta li su to smislili zlotvori?

Probaj  DVD Decrypter
http://www.dvddecrypter.org.uk/

http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2011/01/19/anne-hathaway-will-be-catwoman-in-the-dark-knight-rises/ (http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2011/01/19/anne-hathaway-will-be-catwoman-in-the-dark-knight-rises/)

'Dark Knight Rises': Anne Hathaway will be Catwoman, Tom Hardy is Bane [Updated]
Jan. 19, 2011 | 9:32 a.m.

Anne Hathaway (Getty)

Anne Hathaway will play Selina Kyle, the slinky and savage outlaw who is known as Catwoman, in next year's Christopher Nolan film "The Dark Knight Rises," according to a press release from Warner Bros.

Tom Hardy, already announced as a cast member, will play Bane, the chemically created brute who first appeared in the comics in 1993 — making him a far "younger" villain for Nolan's Batman mega-franchise, which has most prominently featured the Joker (who first appeared in 1940) , Two-Face (1942), Ras Al-Ghul (1971) and the Scarecrow (1941).

Catwoman — then just called "The Cat" –  first appeared in 1940 as the creation of Bob Kane and Bill Finger, and she has brought leather-clad sexual tension to the Batman adventures both on the page and beyond; she was portrayed by Julie Newmar, Eartha Kitt  and Lee Meriwether on the 1960s television series starring Adam West as the caped crusader, and Michelle Pfeiffer memorably cracked the whip in the role opposite of the masked Michael Keaton  in Tim Burton's 1992 film "Batman Returns." In 2004, Halle Berry starred in the character's own solo film, "Catwoman," but the film became an infamous flop and was jeered by comic-book fans after director Pitof jettisoned years of comic-book lore and character touchstones.

Nolan, in the Warner press release, said: "I am thrilled to have the opportunity to work with Anne Hathaway, who will be a fantastic addition to our ensemble as we complete our story." Of Hardy, who worked with Nolan on "Inception,"  the director said: "I am delighted to be working with Tom again and excited to watch him bring to life our new interpretation of one of Batman's most formidable enemies."

Nolan will direct the film from a screenplay he wrote with his brother, Jonathan Nolan, from a story by Nolan and David S. Goyer. Nolan will also produce the film with his wife and longtime producing partner, Emma Thomas, and Charles Roven. "The Dark Knight Rises" hits theaters on July 20, 2012.

– Geoff Boucher

Bane, znači. Sva ona nagađanja da će Riddler biti glavni negativac nisu bila istinita iako bih ja više volio njega. Smatram kako bi to više pristajalo Nolanu. Od Banea znaš što možeš očekivati, a Riddler je baš pravo zajeban.

Anne Hathaway kao catwoman. Sad tu dođe jedno veliko HMMMM...?

KUNG FU TREACHERY!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bARfFo0JHxI#ws)

Ne vidi se čitavo platno, ali sem toga nije loš snimak, pa ko ne može da izdrži...

KUNG FU TREACHERY!!!  ;)

svaka cast gde si ovo iskopao  xnerd
ovo ce za par sati nestati sa YT  i naravno da ne mozemo da izdrzimo  :!:

Sad sam proverio, nestao je... Ko još nije pogledao, ukratko: uvodni set-pis bi bez previše izmena mogao da bude uvodna scena za neki od Bond filmova, a Bejn je već uspeo da poentira sa nekoliko pamtljivih replika...

Evo i sasvim gledljive verzije (iz bioskopa) novog trejlera, jedino fali nekoliko sekundi na početku:

http://www.twitvid.com/RZTDH (http://www.twitvid.com/RZTDH)

Evo i trejlera (isto iz bioskopa) za download...

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=PXPBOF65