Posle mojih radosnih hvala
Palimpsestu knjigu je pročitao i Melkor, koji je sličnog mišljenja. Čini mi se da sam to video i napismeno na forumu, a ne samo kroz dno čaše u Bridž
klubu pabu, al ne mogu sad da nađem, a žurim.
Dve priče Katarine Valente su dostupne za čitanje:
- "The Radiant Car Thy Sparrows Drew" by Catherynne M. Valente (http://clarkesworldmagazine.com/valente_08_09/). Ima i audio verzija! (http://clarkesworldmagazine.com/podpress_trac/web/audio_08_09/0/clarkesworld_08_09_valente.mp3)
- "Urchins, While Swimming" by Catherynne M. Valente (http://www.magicalrealism.co.uk/issue1/urchins.php)
Overite dok su tu
Uzeo i ja da citam Palimpsest.
Dobro je ovo - stil, stil i samo stil.
kako je krenula i kuvar da napise uzeo bih da citam......
A za sve vas i nas kojima se dopao Palimpsest evo i prvog poglavlja iz Novembrine omiljene knjige:
The Girl Who Circumnavigated Fairyland In A Ship Of Her Own Making
http://www.catherynnemvalente.com/fairyland/ (http://www.catherynnemvalente.com/fairyland/)
The Ballad of the Sinister Mr. Mouth (http://literary.erictmarin.com/archives/Issue%2022/ballad.htm)
The Maiden-Tree (http://www.cabinet-des-fees.com/issue1/maiden-tree.html)
Thread: A Triptych (http://literary.erictmarin.com/archives/Issue%2014/thread.htm)
Kad. Sve. Pročitati. :x :x :x
A Buyer's Guide to Maps of Antarctica (http://clarkesworldmagazine.com/valente_05_08/) (Clarkesworld #20, May 2008) World Fantasy Award Nomination for Best Short Story 2009.
Bones Like Black Sugar (http://www.fantasy-magazine.com/2005/11/bones-like-black-sugar/) (Fantasy Magazine #1, Winter 2005)
Pasiphae's Machine (Heliotrope #1 (http://www.heliotropemag.com/Issue01/pdf/Heliotrope_Full.pdf), August 2006) (poezija)
Jel se njena ljubav prema Pavicu racuna kao plus ili kao minus? ;)
http://yuki-onna.livejournal.com/548043.html (http://yuki-onna.livejournal.com/548043.html)
Quote from: Jevtropijevićka on 06-12-2009, 19:16:59
Jel se njena ljubav prema Pavicu racuna kao plus ili kao minus? ;)
http://yuki-onna.livejournal.com/548043.html (http://yuki-onna.livejournal.com/548043.html)
Ja nisam mogao da poverujem koliki su rispekt Paviću odali svecki blogovi posvećeni sffu, a bogme i pisci.
Stono kazu: niko nije prorok u svome selu...
Bogme, meni je to plus. Ja sam "Hazarski rečnik" doživeo kao čistu nad-žanrovsku fantastiku, koja mi je podjednako dobro legla kao, recimo, Donaldson ili Legvinova, samo poetskije, i u jeziku/mitologiji koju dublje razumem. Slično iskustvo sam imao sa Basarom i "Famom o biciklistima" i nastavkom mu.
Najveći prostor koji je Lokus ikada posvetio nekom jugoslovenskom piscu bio je tekst o Paviću i Hazarskom rečniku, krajem osamdesetih.
Pavić je pisac koji je prvo dobio priznanje u svetu, pa ga je onda domaći kružok zapazio.
trazeci slicicu za upravo citam, njene listmaniatm liste na amazonu
Journeys to the Otherworld
http://www.amazon.com/Journeys-to-the-Otherworld/lm/1SR9X42H2E4WI/ref=cm_lmt_srch_f_1_rsrsrs0 (http://www.amazon.com/Journeys-to-the-Otherworld/lm/1SR9X42H2E4WI/ref=cm_lmt_srch_f_1_rsrsrs0)
Books To Imparadise Your Mind
http://www.amazon.com/Books-To-Imparadise-Your-Mind/lm/3OXW39QVOL226/ref=cm_lm_byauthor_title_full (http://www.amazon.com/Books-To-Imparadise-Your-Mind/lm/3OXW39QVOL226/ref=cm_lm_byauthor_title_full)
Locus:
Experimental Serbian novelist Milorad Pavic, 80, died November 30, 2009 in Belgrade of complications from a heart attack. Pavic's novels, which all had fantasy elements, were translated into over 30 languages. Pavic also published short stories, poetry, and non-fiction. Born October 15, 1929 in Belgrade, Pavic obtained a doctorate at the University of Zagreb and taught philosophy at the University of Novi Sad and later the University of Belgrade. He is survived by his wife Jasmina Mihajlovic, a daughter, and a son.
Locus najavljuje i detaljniji prikaz u januarskom broju
Valente o Levoj ruci tame:
http://yuki-onna.livejournal.com/621090.html?thread=17853474#t17853474 (http://yuki-onna.livejournal.com/621090.html?thread=17853474#t17853474)
Jebote, dated rather badly, on the gender front??? Posle nek me neko pita što moje mišljenje o Katarini varira od očaranosti do popljuvavanja.
Aaaa, Jevtropijevićka juzd "J" word... :shock: :lol: :lol:
Enivejz, i gospojica Valente svrhovito rantuje uz tu reč...
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Warning: This Post Is an F-Minefield
I am having one of those weeks where I look at everything happening on the internet and I can't even think of anything to say about it. I have nothing to contribute. Yes, Internet, there really is a limit. And I hit it. So here's what I have to say about the past fortnight.
Fuck James Frey. Fuck MFA programs that think charging $50k for a degree that leaves its students so innocent and lamb-like in their naivete concerning the very industry that degree was meant to prepare them to take part in that people like Frey know damn well that the MFAs are who you hit first when you want to scam a writer. Fuck the $50k MFA. Fuck Cooks Source and fuck the dogpile that ensued just because for once it was so completely clear who the bad guy was. Fuck hating on Nanowrimo and speed writing in general and backpedaling when people considered "real writers" admit to starting out through Nano (as I did).
Fuck the new Cancer or Molestation? menu at the TSA. Fuck my brain for adding cake or death to the end of that sentence. Fuck not even having to show photo ID to get on a train but being treated like a criminal for flying.
Fuck constantly refreshing my Amazon rating. Fuck worrying, constantly, about books and book doings and talking endlessly about The Industry until I feel like Tim Robbins in The Player. Fuck being a well rounded person who doesn't just talk about her job all the time.Fuck feeling like I should be further along, like I should have done more, done better, done sooner. Fuck comparing myself to other writers, fuck comparing myself to some invisible measuring stick, fuck comparing myself to the person myself thought I should be. Fuck my procrastinating habits and fuck all the things I haven't finished yet.
Fuck the workplace filters that keep people from reading my blog because I use the word fuck but let in Perez Hilton. Fuck everyone who will say this is a super negative entry and I should lighten up and not take things so seriously, because everyone needs to say fuck it once in awhile and taking things seriously is like what I do professionally.
Fuck feeling like shit about my weight. Fuck avoiding looking at Facebook photos people upload because I don't want to see my own face. Fuck reading gossip blogs that hate on women's bodies constantly and yet I never stop reading them, or stop feeling like crap because my weight makes me a failure no matter what else I ever do with my life. Fuck knowing that it matters so damn much whether or not I'm pretty in the world of cons and corsets and sparkly and shiny, and that if I were a male writer I really could say fuck it and mean it and the mattering would be so much less. Fuck feeling like every time someone sees me in person they're disappointed.
Fuck having to deal with other people's bullshit financial decisions even though I had nothing to do with them. Fuck being cryptic about crap I don't want to share online. Fuck not being able to share everything online. Fuck apologizing for my opinions, fuck having them in the first place. Fuck my ducks for getting out of their pen in the middle of the night so I had to chase them around in the mud and fuck googling for reviews and fuck everything but writing and love and my silly dogs and cats and Maine and autumn and pumpkins and Thanksgiving. Those things can stay.
Fuck it all, fuck it repeatedly. I want to watch Jem and eat curry and put on my earmuffs and not hear any of it. I want a cup of tea and some damn snow up in here because what is 55 degrees in late November all about? I want everyone to stop acting like it's Christmas until the day after Thanksgiving at the EARLIEST. I want a good movie in the damn theaters and I want a PEPPERMINT MOCHA and for GLEE TO STOP SUCKING. I AM UNREASONABLE AND I DON'T CARE.
But seriously, and most thoroughly of all, fuck James Frey.
(blasted đender išue iz mejbi... a bit finiki za mz Valente... to je maltene provejavalo iz njenog odgovora na Stephen Fry lapsus... :))
Ova Valenteova počinje da mi se dopada :lol:
Psujem ja, kad me muka natera. Valente lepo piše, cenim kod nje i feminizam i znanje klasičnih jezika, ali otpisivanje onog remek-dela zbog toga što za androgine junake koristi gramatički muški rod? AMAN.
Mogu samo da zaključim:
- ideologija može da zaslepi u najgorem trenutku
- neki ljudi zbilja ne kapiraju poentu rodne ravnopravnosti, sa obe strane. Sećam se tribine o Ursuli na kojoj se predavač žalio kako bi ona da feminizira i poništi sve muškarce. Do Džoane Ras tom prilikom nismo stigli :twisted:
Ja sam sa Mehom onomad zakrvio oko "Leve ruke tame." Obećah da ću ponovo pročitati i dati objektivan sud, ali nažalost, još to obećanje nisam održao. Ali planiram. :lol:
Hm... zar si i ti smatrao da nije dovoljno feministička?? Sine Brute! ;)
Ma kak'i, ja sam samo kazao da mi se nije svidela i da je "Svet se kaže šuma" ostavila povoljnije utiske. Ja ne gotivim feminizam u knjigama; čak i ženske likove, sem nekih serijala koji su me dobrano oduševili svojom postavkom i glavnim ženskim likom (čitaj: "Black Jewels trilogy"). Nau, krusifaj mi! :evil:
Quote from: Perin on 02-12-2010, 00:13:31
Ja ne gotivim feminizam u knjigama; čak i ženske likove, sem nekih serijala koji su me dobrano oduševili svojom postavkom i glavnim ženskim likom (čitaj: "Black Jewels trilogy"). Nau, krusifaj mi! :evil:
Pa, u Levoj ruci tame
nema ženskih likova... kao takvih... Masa androgina i jedan muškarac. Bolje možeš naći samo u knjigama o manastirima, zatvorima, vojsci i mornarici (od pre).
A inače... ovaj... idem po eksere i čekić.
Jes', nema ženskih...ali ima nuftera :)
Ja se ne sećam zakrvljenja, mora da sam bio pijan. Sećam se da smo pominjali nešto Levu Ruku Tame...
Ja to uopšte nisam doživeo kao feminističku knjigu u užem smislu (Houston, Houston mi je daleko feminističkije delo ako već pričamo o feminizmu u nju vejvu). Kao knjigu koja napada tradicionalne rodne uloge, da, ali odatle pa do feminizma koji ipak podrazumeva ideologiju, mislim da je potrebno nekoliko koraka. Hoću reći, Ursula je feministkinja (ili je bila u to vreme) ali LRT nije nekakav ideološki pamflet nego propisno umetničko sočinjenije.
Da ne bude zabune, meni je i Svet se kaže šuma draga knjiga, ali LRT je ambicioznija i isporučuje višije.
Perinu možda smeta što u LRT nema muževnih muškaraca.
Većina muškog sveta kod Ursule deluje nedoraslo. :lol:
Meni to načelno smeta uvek i svugde, ali mi kod vintage Ursule nije smetalo. Kad malo provrtim film, mislim da je u većini knjiga iz originalnog hainskog ciklusa nivo muževnosti sasvim prihvatljiv za mene. U Gradu Opsena protagonista je baš po mom ukusu, isto je i u Rokanonovom svetu.Muški protagonisti Planete izgnanstva su takođe sasvim muževni po mom shvatanju. Čak i u Dispossessed koja najdalje ide u obezkurivanju glavnog junaka, nisam osećao neprijatnost i mislim da je sačuvao muževnost u razumnoj meri. Takođe, u Čapljinom oku (koje ne spada stvarno u HC ali tu je negde) gde je "ženski" princip vrlo izražen, nisam imao nikakav problem sa muškim protagonistima.
Ono gde jesam imao problem bilo je Pričanje (aka The Telling), napisano trideset godina kasnije u kome je politički sadržaj prilično nespretno tretiran. Mislim, čisto sa strane fenomena, zanimljivo je bilo čitati levičarku koja se obračunava sa revolucionarnim režimom što suzbija tradiciju, ali sa strane umetničkih kvaliteta nisam bio zadovoljan, glavna junakinja je bila baš ono preterana bezkurica za moj ukus (čak uzevši u obzir da je žena + lezbijka) a insistiranje na političkoj korektnosti je zasenilo kvalitet same proze.
Odmah da nešto rasčistim: ja nisam doživeo LrT kao feminističko delo. Ne, ne, ne. Moja opaska na "feminizam" jeste ta da ga ne volim u knjigama - nisam rekao da sam pronašao mnogo feminitma u LrT :)
LrT jeste dobra knjiga, ali mene nije nešto preterano oduševila; no, kao što sam obećao, kad budem u mogućnosti, pročitaću je ponovo i napisati utiske.
Jasno.
Pročitaj ponovo Levu Ruku tame, kad već ja nemam vremena. :lol:
Quote from: Jevtropijevićka on 01-12-2010, 22:55:57
... ali otpisivanje onog remek-dela zbog toga što za androgine junake koristi gramatički muški rod? AMAN.
Mogu samo da zaključim:
- ideologija može da zaslepi u najgorem trenutku
- neki ljudi zbilja ne kapiraju poentu rodne ravnopravnosti, sa obe strane.
Eh, istina je to neporeciva, ali opet... nije to mala stvar, održati zdrav balans između krajnosti. Retko kome to uspeva, da budemo iskreni. Danas sam sve sklonija da poverujem kako startna pozicija daleko više utiče na pojedinca i daleko više formira njegovu ličnost od one kojoj stremi. :(
Nego, vidi samo te koincidencije - novi blog Ursule lično se potrefio skroz relevantan za ovaj naš mali skoro-pa-oftopik:
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A Band of Brothers, a Stream of Sisters
Posted on December 2nd, 2010 by Ursula K. Le Guin
I have come to see male group solidarity as an immensely powerful force in human affairs, more powerful, perhaps, than the feminism of the late 20th century took into account.
It's amazing, given their different physiology and complement of hormones, how much alike men and women are in most ways. Still it seems to be the fact that women on the whole have less direct competitive drive and desire to dominate; and therefore, paradoxically, have less need to bond with one another in ranked, exclusive groups.
The power of male group solidarity must come from the control and channeling of male rivalry, the repression and concentration of the hormone-driven will to dominate that so often dominates men themselves. It is a remarkable reversal. The destrutive, anarchic energy of individual rivalry and competitive ambition is diverted into loyalty to group and leader and directed to more or less constructive social enterprise.
Such groups are closed, positing "the other" as outsider. They exclude, first, women; then, men of a different age, or kind, or caste, or nation, or level of achievement, etc. — exclusions that reinforce the solidarity and power of the excluders. Perceiving any threat, the "band of brothers" joins together to present an impermeable front.
Male solidarity appears to me to have been the prime shaper of most of the great ancient institutions of society — Government, Army, Priesthood, University, and the new one that may be devouring all the others, Corporation. The existence and dominance of these hierarchic, organized, coherent, durable institutions goes back so far and has been so nearly universal that it's mostly just called "how things are," "the world," "the division of labor," "history," "God's will," etc.
o0o
As for female solidarity, without it human society, I think, would not exist. But it remains all but invisible to men, history, and God
Female solidarity might better be called fluidity — a stream or river rather than a structure. The only institutions I am fairly sure it has played some part in shaping are the tribe and that very amorphous thing, the family. Wherever the male arrangement of society permits the fellowship of women on their own terms, it tends to be casual, unformalised, unhierarchical; to be ad hoc rather than fixed, flexible rather than rigid, and more collaborative than competitive. That it has mostly operated in the private rather than the public sphere is a function of the male control of society, the male definition and separation of "public" and "private." It's hard to know if women's groups would ever gather into great centers, because the relentless pressure from male institutions against such aggregation has prevented it. It might not happen, anyhow. Instead of rising from the rigorous control of aggression in the pursuit of power, the energy of female solidarity comes from the wish and need for mutual aid and, often, the search for freedom from oppression. Elusiveness is the essence of fluidity.
So, when the interdependence of women is perceived as a threat to the dependence of women on men and the child-bearing, child-rearing, family-serving, man-serving role assigned to women, it's easy to declare that it simply doesn't exist. Women have no loyalty, do not understand what friendship is, etc. Denial is an effective weapon in the hands of fear. The idea of female independence and interdependence is met with scoffing hatred by both men and women who see themselves as benefiting from male dominance. Misogyny is by no means limited to men. Living in "a man's world," plenty of women distrust and fear themselves as much or more than men do.
In so far as the feminism of the nineteen-seventies played on fear, exalting the independence and interdependence of women, it was playing with fire. We cried "Sisterhood is powerful!" — and they believed us. Terrified misogynists of both sexes were howling that the house was burning down before most feminists found out where the matches were.
The nature of sisterhood is so utterly different from the power of brotherhood that it's hard to predict how it might change society. In any case, we've seen only a glimpse of what its effects might be.
The great ancient male institutions have been increasingly infiltrated by women for the last two cenuries, and this is a very great change. But when women manage to join the the institutions that excluded them, they mostly end up being co-opted by them, serving male ends, enforcing male values.
Which is why I have a problem with women in combat in the armed services, and why I watch the rise of women in the "great"universities and the corporations — even the government — with an anxious eye.
Can women operate as women in a male institution without becoming imitation men?
If so, will they change the institution so radically that the men are likely to label it second-class, lower the pay, and abandon it? This has happened to some extent in several fields, such as the practice of teaching and medicine, increasingly in the hands of women. But the management of those fields, the power, and the definition of their aims, still belongs to men. The question remains open.
o0o
As I look back on the feminism of the late twentieth century I see it as typical of feminine solidarity — all Indians, no chiefs. It was an attempt to create an unhierarchical, inclusive, flexible, collaborative, unstructured, ad hoc body of people to bring the genders together in a better balance.
Women who want to work toward that end, need, I think, to recognise and respect their own elusive, invaluable, indestructible kind of solidarity — as do men. And they need to recognise both the great value of male solidarity, and the inferiority of gender solidarity to human solidarity — as do men.
I think feminism continues and will continue to exist wherever women work in their own way with one another and with men, and wherever women and men go on questioning male definitions of value, refusing gender exclusivity, affirming interdependence, distrusting aggression, seeking freedom always.
— UKL
2 December 2010
_____________
Bože, koliko je ovo tačno:
A: Some people I know liked the The Girl Who Circumnavigated a Dragon Tattoo Fairyland book, but it set off my Twee-o-Meter violently. Maybe not surprisingly, since the narrative voice is a great deal like the one in The Water-Babies, and I can't stand that either.
B: I kept thinking all the time I was reading that book "But I'll take down that mast of gold, and set up a mast of twee."
I actually liked a lot of it, though. "I like this!" "But twee!" "But twee!" "But I like this!" Etc.
Ja naravno nisam čitao ništa od toga, ali... nije li manje-više uobičajeno da dvanaestogodišnje devojčice poseduju ogromnu količinu tweeja?
One da, ali Valente je prevalila tridesetu... i kako da rečem, ova knjiga je jednako namenjena i odraslima, i jedan aspekt twee faktora (sladunjavosti?...) je upravo kalkulisan za njih tj. nas.
Treba biti pošten i dodati kako meni i Gejman često zalazi u tu teritoriju, posebno sa Zvezdanom prašinom, pa možda i nisam objektivan procenjivač.