Fosil iz Etiopije, star 4,4 miliona godina, bacio u vodu teoriju da smo postali od bića sličnog šimpanzama
Izuzetno arheološko otkriće, koje su naučnici godinama u tajnosti proučavali, konačno je prestavljeno široj javnosti. Čovekova daleka pretkinja Ardi bila je visoka 120 santimetara, teška oko 50 kilograma i malo je hodala na dve noge, a malo se verala po drveću.
Prilično kompletan skelet hominida iz vrste Ardipitekus ramidus, iz milošte nazvan Ardi, deo je blaga otkrivenog još 1994. u egipatskoj oblasti Avaš i prestavlja najvažnije arheološko otkriće za poslednjih sto godina koje rasvetljava evoluciju čoveka, složna je naučna zajednica.
Ovaj i još 35 fosila pronađenih na istom mestu u periodu od nekoliko godina bacili su u vodu teoriju da smo postali od bića sličnog šimpanzama, kaže vođa naučnog tima profesor Tim Vajt sa univerziteta Berkli.
Na severu Etiopije, u pesku blizu sela Aramis, pronađen je najpre jedan zub, a zatim i ostaci lobanje, karlice, kostiju šake i stopala, u sendviču između vulkanskih stena na osnovu kojih su datirani na period od pre 4,4 miliona godina.
Naučnici su narednih godina sklapali kockice mozaika da bi juče u specijalnom izdanju američkog naučnog časopisa ,,Sajens" u ukupno 11 naučnih radova objavili detaljan opis vrste Ardipitekus ramidus.
Iako ne predstavlja ,,kariku koja nedostaje" – zajedničkog pretka šimpanza i ljudi koji je živeo pre pet do sedam miliona godina – Ardi je najbliža toj karici u odnosu na sva dosadašnja otkrića.
Fosilizirano drvo, seme i drugi biljni ostaci pronađeni takođe između vulkanskih stena govore da je Ardi živela u pošumljenom kraju, gde su na mestu današnje pustinje rasla smokvina stabla i palme. To znači da pada u vodu i teorija da su praljudi ,,prohodali" u savanama, kaže paleoantropolog Si Oven Lavdžoj sa univerziteta Kent u Ohaju, jedan od 47 naučnika iz celog sveta koji su učestvovali u istraživanju.
Iako po težini i visini slična današnjem šimpanzi, neke Ardine karakteristike primitivnije su u odnosu na moderne čovekolike majmune, što govori da su čovek na jednoj strani, a šimpanze i gorile na drugoj, značajno evoluirali otkako su se pre otprilike sedam miliona godina ,,odvojili" od zajedničkog pretka.
Ardi pokazuje da su evoluirale i šimpanze, suprotno raširenom stavu među naučnicima da se oni nisu mnogo menjali i da po njima treba praviti model zajedničkog pretka.
,,Darvin je bio veoma mudar kad je govorio o tome. Rekao je da moramo da budemo baš oprezni. Jedini način da zaista saznamo kako je izgledao zajednički predak jeste da ga pronađemo", kaže profesor Vajt.
Ardi nas je tome približila više nego išta do sada. Njen skelet je više od milion godina stariji od fosila čuvene ,,Lusi" iz vrste Australopitekus afarensis, koja je pronađena u drugom delu Etiopije 1974. i pokazala da su naši preci hodali uspravno pre nego što im se mozak povećao.
Kompjuterski rekonstruisana lobanja Ardi, koja je pronađena sasvim smrskana, navela je naučnike na zaključak da je u pitanju žensko stvorenje.
Iako je mnogo vremena provodila verući se po drveću, karlica joj je bila prilagođena uspravnom hodu. Imala je veoma dugačke ruke i duge prste na šakama.
Po isturenoj vilici ličila je na majmuna, ali po drugim karakteristikama lobanje sasvim je različita od šimpanza.
Analiza zubne gleđi ukazuje da se hranila voćem, smokvama, lišćem i manjim sisarima. Oblik zuba (kockasti zubi, a ne šiljasti kao kod današnjih majmuna), kao i približno ista veličina mužjaka i ženki, navodi na pretpostavku da se mužjaci Ardipitekusa nisu borili za ženku, kao što to rade šimpanze i gorile. To po mišljenju profesora Lavdžoja govori da su bili na putu ka monogamiji i da su više brinuli za podmladak, mada drugi osporavaju ovakva nagađanja kao ,,čistu glupost".
http://www.politika.rs/rubrike/Svet/Pretkinja-Ardi-rasvetlila-teoriju-evolucije.lt.html (http://www.politika.rs/rubrike/Svet/Pretkinja-Ardi-rasvetlila-teoriju-evolucije.lt.html)
pa ko je tvrdio da su ljudi nastali od majmuna?
postoji zajednički predak iz koga su se razvili svi ljudi i svi majmuni, ali je do razdvajanja došlo pre više od 10 miliona godina.
Taj predak je bio veličine mačke i u zavisnosti od okolnosti, razvijao se za život na drveću ili hodanje savanom.
Savršena emisija na ovu temu je o lemurima na Madagaskaru.
Oni su tamo izdvojeni neki milion godina i već ih ima vrlo različitih vrsta; od onih koji su se smanjili na veličinu miševa sa ogromnim repom do onik koji se kreću na dve noge jer su se nastanili na terenima gde nema zgodnog drveća za veranje.
Suština je samo da krene razvoj inteligencije, a to se dobija ishranom, prelaskom na meso, naravno... prilično sam siguran da bi dvonožni lemuri sa madagaskara na nivou 5 miliona godina uz odgovarajuću ishranu razvili nadmajmunsku inteligenciju.
Quote from: Boban on 03-10-2009, 12:21:42
pa ko je tvrdio da su ljudi nastali od majmuna?
Suština je samo da krene razvoj inteligencije, a to se dobija ishranom, prelaskom na meso...
To je dobar zaključak, lave.
Ostaje pitanje šta će biti sa vegetarijancima? Hoće li im se mozak smanjiti? Hoće li ponovo postati majmuni? Da li su u opasnosti ako trče po savani ili učestvuju u maratonima? Da li prava opasnost vreba tek kad počnu da se penju po drveću? :o
pa na nivou milion godina evolucije, vegetarijanstvo će garant umanjiti inteligenciju.
Nema bre dobre misli ako nije uvijena u životinjski holesterol.
Ja sam probao da budem vegetarijanac jednom prilikom, i već posle 14 minuta osetio sam kako mi mozak zastajkuje.
I traje...
Nažderao se lav antilopinog mesa i povukao u duboki 'lad, da odmori.
Sa grane, majmun pruži ruku i mazne komad mesa koji je visio sa strane antilope. Zaglaba ga.
"Džaba, majmune, nikada od tebe neće biti lav...", lav frkne iz 'lada.
"Bre, lave, pojma ti nemaš šta je dugoročno planiranje. Ja ću jednog dana postati kapitalista." brecnu se majmun i nastavi da ždere.
Quote from: Boban on 03-10-2009, 17:36:13Ja sam probao da budem vegetarijanac jednom prilikom, i već posle 14 minuta osetio sam kako mi mozak zastajkuje.
izgleda da od tada do današnjeg dana više nisi probao meso...
je li to trebalo da bude smešno?
Quote from: Boban on 03-10-2009, 19:09:22
je li to trebalo da bude smešno?
pojedi parče mesa pa vidi - možda ti bude jasnije.
meni je već toliko stvari jasno da je napredak naprosto nemoguć.
Beskrajna belina. Ko slika arhanđela Mihajla kod Mirjane Novaković.
Teo sam da navatam matoranca, a ono bucov. Za ciglih 14 minuta! :x Nešto mi nije u redu sa mamcem.
Quote from: Boban on 03-10-2009, 12:21:42
postoji zajednički predak iz koga su se razvili svi ljudi i svi majmuni, ali je do razdvajanja došlo pre više od 10 miliona godina.
Pa ne bas tako jednostavno i tako davno. Grana iz koje su nastali orangutani se odvojila ranij,e pa onda grana koja je dala gorile, i tek mislim onda simpanze i ljudi, pre 6-7mil, ako se ne varam. Nisu se razisli svi u istom momentu
pa naravno da nije jednostavno; ni taj zajednički predak nije mogao postojati u jednom obliku, već u ko zna koliko raznih grananja kroz milione...
22 December 2010 Last updated at 18:03 GMT
Ancient humans, dubbed 'Denisovans', interbred with us
By Pallab Ghosh Science correspondent, BBC News
Professor Chris Stringer: "It's nothing short of sensational - we didn't know know how ancient people in China related to these other humans"
Scientists say an entirely separate type of human identified from bones in Siberia co-existed and interbred with our own species.
The ancient humans have been dubbed "Denisovans" after the caves in Siberia where their remains were found.
There is also evidence that this population was widespread in Eurasia.
A study in Nature journal shows that Denisovans co-existed with Neanderthals and interbred with our species - perhaps around 50,000 years ago.
An international group of researchers sequenced a complete genome from one of the ancient hominins (human-like creatures), based on nuclear DNA extracted from a finger bone.
'Sensational' find
According to the researchers, this provides confirmation there were at least four distinct types of human in existence when anatomically modern humans (Homo sapiens sapiens) first left their African homeland.
Along with modern humans, scientists knew about the Neanderthals and a dwarf human species found on the Indonesian island of Flores nicknamed "The Hobbit". To this list, experts must now add the Denisovans.
The implications of the finding have been described by Professor Chris Stringer of the Natural History Museum in London as "nothing short of sensational".
Scientists were able to analyse DNA from a tooth and from a finger bone excavated in the Denisova cave in southern Siberia. The individuals belong to a genetically distinct group of humans that were distantly related to Neanderthals but even more distantly related to us.
The finding adds weight to the theory that a different kind of human could have existed in Eurasia at the same time as our species.
Researchers have had enigmatic fossil evidence to support this view but now they have some firm evidence from the genetic study carried out by Professor Svante Paabo of the Max Planck Institute in Leipzig, Germany.
"A species of early human living in Europe evolved," according to Professor Paabo.
"There was a western form that was the Neanderthal and an eastern form, the Denisovans."
The study shows that Denisovans interbred with the ancestors of the present day people of the Melanesian region north and north-east of Australia. Melanesian DNA comprises between 4% and 6% Denisovan DNA.
David Reich from the Harvard Medical School, who worked with Svante Paabo on the study, says that the fact that Denisovan genes ended up so far south suggests they were widespread across Eurasia: "These populations must have been spread across thousands and thousands of miles," he told BBC News.
One mystery is why the Denisovan genes are unique in modern Melanesians and are not found in other Eurasian groups that have so far been sampled.
(https://www.znaksagite.com/diskusije/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbcimg.co.uk%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2F50547000%2Fgif%2F_50547826_human_family_tree304.gif&hash=a806565c46c12c391787cc41c3045a295ebd5d30)
'Fleeting encounter'
Professor Stringer believes it is because there may have been only a fleeting encounter as modern humans migrated through South-East Asia and then on to Melanesia.
Denisova cave The remains were excavated at a cave site in southern Siberia
"It could be just 50 Denisovans interbreeding with a thousand modern humans. That would be enough to produce this 5% of those archaic genes being transferred," he said.
"So the impact is there but the number of interbreeding events might have been quite small and quite rare."
No one knows when or how these humans disappeared but, according to Professor Paabo, it is very likely something to do with modern people because all the "archaic" humans, like Denisovans and Neanderthals disappeared sometime after Homo sapiens sapiens appeared on the scene.
"It is fascinating to see direct evidence that these archaic species did exist (alongside us) and it's only for the last few tens of thousands of years that is unique in our history that we are alone on this planet and we have no close relatives with us anymore," he said.
The study follows a paper published earlier this year by by Professor Paabo and colleagues that showed there was interbreeding between modern humans and Neanderthals as they emerged from Africa 60,000 years ago.
Ha! Sad možemo da se vratimo rasnim predrasudama. Francuzi i Kinezi, Afrikance možemo da otpišamo... I, preostaju Krapinci i Dasovani. Konačno mi je sve jasno o poreklu Balkanaca. :shock:
U knjizi "Forbidden Archeology: The Hidden History of the Human Race" autori Michael A. Cremo i Richard L. Thompson detaljno i gradacijom iznose otkrića koja su odavno trebala ozbiljno uzdrmati i srušiti teoriju evoluciju, i naterati naučnike da se zapitaju koliko je to ljudski narod zaista ovde ? Naravno, to može pokazivati da su naše metode određivanja starosti, loše, ali s obzirom na broj slučajeva u knjizi recimo ako je samo 1 tačan, Darvinizam pada u vodu.
Obrati pažnju da nisi opovrgao evoluciju ako opovrgneš Darvinovu teoriju evolucije. Samu evoluciju apsolutno niko ne dovodi u pitanje. Well, osim kreacionista i nekoliko nut-kejsova. Ono što je pod lupom je mehanizam evolucije, to jest ne znamo tačno kako evolucija radi.
Gledo sam Kremoa kad je gostovo kod Miška u emisiji Na rubu znanosti. On i njegova ekipa su navodno našli ljudske ostatke toliko stare da aspolutno nisu mogli da nastanu evolucijom, osim eventualno uz pomoć kakvog eksperimenta s vremeplovom (obratiti pažnju da je ovaj argument upravo suprotan onome što zastupa young Earth kreacionizam). U toj emisiji su pričali još sa nekim naučnicima čija otkrića su ignorisana (tj. "sklonjena" sa uvida javnosti) jer su se kosila s teorijom evolucije.
mac, moja greška, mislio sam na Darvinovu teoriju evolucije i postanka čoveka.
Harvester, preporučujem ti da skineš
Michael.Cremo.Extreme.Human.Antiquity.DVDrip.XviD-FREE
4CD-a, gde zadnji nema potrebe da gledaš, osim ako te ne zanima njegov privatni život.
Kao što sam spomenuo, pronašli su kompletne skelete neverovatno stare, koji su se nalazili ispod slojeva koji nisu dozvoljavali komešanje tla, dakle bili su fiksirani. Ovo pominjem zbog previranja tla koje može dovesti da se skeletima u takvom zemljištu precizno odredi starost.
Što se tiče Darvina, niko da javno kaže da su majmonolike vrste čoveka misteriozno odjedanput nestajale i nove se pojavljivale.
Misteriozno je prenaglašeno. Nauke koje zavise od empirije su u bedaku, one koje zavise od empirijskih ostataka su u još gorem bedaku. Ako potez lopatom može nauku da izvrne naopačke, a ne lopatamo dovoljno.
Fossil find puts 'Lucy' story on firm footing
By Jonathan Amos Science correspondent, BBC News
New fossil evidence seems to confirm that a key ancestor of ours could walk upright consistently - one of the major advances in human evolution. The evidence comes in the form of a 3.2 million-year-old bone that was found at Hadar, Ethiopia. Its shape indicates the diminutive, human-like species Australopithecus afarensis had arches in its feet. Arched feet, the discovery team tells the journal Science, are critical for walking the way modern humans do.
"[The bone] gives a glimpse of foot anatomy and function," explained William Kimbel, director of the Institute of Human Origins at Arizona State University, US.
"It is the fourth metatarsal bone, which resides on the outside of the middle part of your foot, and which helps support the well-developed arches of the foot that we see in the soles of modern human feet.
"The bone that was recovered from the Hadar site has all the hallmarks of the form and function of the modern human foot," he told the BBC.
Arch types
Palaeo-scientists knew A. afarensis spent some of its time standing tall; that much has been clear since 1974 when they first examined a skeleton of the species, famously dubbed "Lucy", also found near the village of Hadar in the Ethiopian rift valley. But the absence of important foot bones in all of the specimens uncovered to date has made it difficult for researchers to understand precisely how much time Lucy and her kin spent on their feet, as opposed to moving through the branches of trees. Human feet are very different from those of other primates. They have two arches, longitudinal and transverse. These arches comprise the mid-foot bones, and are supported by muscles in the soles of the feet. This construction enables the feet to perform two critical functions in walking. One is to act as a rigid lever that can propel the body forwards; the other is to act as a shock absorber as the feet touch the ground at the end of a stride. In our modern ape cousins, the feet are more flexible, and sport highly mobile large toes that are important for gripping branches as the animals traverse the tree tops.
Professor Kimbel and colleagues tell Science journal that the feet of A. afarensis' say a lot about the way it lived. It would have been able to move across the landscape much more easily and much more quickly, potentially opening up broader and more abundant supplies of food, they say.
"Lucy's spine has the double curve that our own spine does," Professor Kimbel said.
"Her hips functioned much as human hips do in providing balance to the body with each step, which in a biped of course means that you're actually standing on only one leg at a time during striding.
"The knees likewise in Lucy's species are drawn underneath the body such that the thighbone, or femur, angles inwards to the knees from the hip-joints - as in humans.
"And now we can say that the foot, too, joins these other anatomical regions in pointing towards a fundamentally human-like form of locomotion in this ancient human ancestor."
A. afarensis is thought to have existed between about 2.9 million and 3.7 million years ago, and the Hadar area has yielded hundreds of fossil specimens from the species.
Long road
Commenting on the latest research, Professor Chris Stringer, a palaeoanthropologist at London's Natural History Museum, said scientists were gradually filling in the detail of this creature's position in the human origins story.
"Bipedalism in Lucy is established, but there has been an issue about how much like our own that bipedalism was," he told BBC News.
"Was it a more waddling gait or something more developed?
"And certainly there's evidence in the upper body that the Australopithecines still seemed to have climbing adaptations - so, the hand bones are still quite strongly curved and their arms suggest they're still spending time in the trees.
"If you are on the ground all the time, you need to find shelter at night and you are in a position to move out into open countryside, which has implications for new resources - scavenging and meat-eating, for example.
"If the Australopithecines were on that road, they were only at the very, very beginning of it."
Kakva god da nam je prošlost budućnost će biti ista.
Pojaviće se mašine - inteligentnije od ljudi i marginalizovati nas,
a same uređivati svet po svom nahođenju.
Da, ali ne zato što će nas porobiti, i uzeti nam našu slobodu. Ne, ljudi će je mašinama voljno predati.