RUSSIA TODAY

[Meho Krljic]

Za promenu malo balansiranija analiza Putina, Rusije i toga šta je zapad učinio i šta treba da učini povodom Ukrajine, na Salonu:

Vladimir Putin goes rogue: Ukraine, NATO, nuclear weapons — and a very dangerous new reality                       

On Aug. 22, a convoy of more than 200 white-painted trucks carrying, according to the Russian government, humanitarian aid trundled into war-ravaged eastern Ukraine, suddenly and without permission from Ukrainian authorities, through a border post under the control of pro-Russian rebels.  There were suspicions that the vehicles were really transporting Russian troops and materiel, but humanitarian aid (mostly food and water) was, in fact, reported the BBC, the cargo.  Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko nevertheless quickly denounced Russia's dispatch of the trucks as a "direct invasion," the United States demanded Russia withdraw the convoy, and German Chancellor Angela Merkel decried the affair as "a dangerous escalation."
But a day later the trucks turned around and trundled back out of Ukraine.  Once again, Russian President Vladimir Putin had managed to wrong-foot observers and heads of state both, and show his population that Russia would act independently to defend its national interests (which, in this case, meant helping mostly ethnic Russians survive the separatist war Russia itself has fomented).  In fact, on Aug. 26 the Russian government announced it planned to send yet another such convoy into Ukraine – an event that may be overshadowed by today's reports of a real Russian invasion purportedly happening now.
Perhaps Western leaders should have expected Russia to act alone in defiantly dispatching its convoy or in pursuing a full-scale invasion of eastern Ukraine.  Putin is, after all, defending what his government considers a strategic priority: keeping NATO, a foreign military bloc inherently adversarial to Russia, out of Ukraine, the birthplace of Kievan Rus and historically a buffer zone against Western incursions.  He has said as much on numerous occasions, and NATO itself, fearful of antagonizing Moscow, back in 2008 refused to offer Ukraine (and Georgia) Membership Action Plans, all the while declaring that both countries will one day become alliance members.  Still wary of Russia, NATO is not planning on inducting Ukraine any time soon, but Ukraine has already signed what might reasonably be viewed as the document – the Association Agreement with the European Union – that could precede joining.  The membership lists for both entities are almost identical.
Putin recently laid out how his government will deal with the world, and surprise, unquestioning respect for the post-Cold-War status quo has lost its place in his foreign policy agenda.  On Aug. 14, in the Crimean seaside town of Yalta, the Russian president convened members of his government and the various fractions of the State Duma at an event largely ignored by the international media and, puzzlingly, given little play on the country's Kremlin-controlled airwaves.  (Live coverage was promised but then canceled inexplicably at the last minute.)  During the course of a speech (mostly dedicated to plans for integrating Crimea into the Russian Federation) and a much more wide-ranging session of questions and answers, Putin talked in relaxed, at times even conciliatory, tones about Russia and the West, his governance ("we have made mistakes and will make more mistakes"), and his desire to create an environment attractive to investors.  But he also issued veiled threats with serious, long-term strategic implications that should prompt the Obama administration, NATO and the European Union to reconsider the policies that have so far proved strikingly ineffectual at breaking Russia's grip on Crimea or quenching the fires of war in the provinces of eastern Ukraine.
It's worth noting that the Q&A followed a wildly bellicose address by the extreme nationalist politician Vladimir Zhirinovsky, the leader of the grossly misnamed Liberal Democratic Party of Russia.  Since the fall of the Soviet Union, Zhirinovsky has frequently played the role of dastardly court jester floating outlandishly jingoistic ideas that nonetheless seem calculated to please Putin and appeal to Russians angry over their country's loss of superpower status.  (Zhirinovsky made headlines earlier in August when he announced on the television station Rossiya 24 that the decision to start World War III had "already been made" and warned the "leaders of the little dwarf-states" of Eastern Europe and the Baltics that they would be "carpet-bombed" for hosting NATO bases.)  In Yalta he did not disappoint.  He spouted more belligerent invective, denouncing elections as a sham concocted in the West, finding fault with Stalin for not attacking the Germans first in 1941, and mooted the possibility of sending Russian tanks against Brussels.  Ever a suck-up to the Kremlin, he also suggested restoring the Russian empire and crowning Putin as the "supreme leader."
After Zhirinovsky quit the podium, Putin complimented him on his oratorical skills and, laughingly, announced that what the LDPR chief said was "his own opinion, which doesn't always coincide with the official position of the Russian Federation."  He added that "the principles of our foreign policy must be peaceful."  But then came the remark of import: "All our partners" – such is the term disingenuously used by Russian officials to describe the U.S. and Europe – "in the world have to understand that Russia, like any other large, powerful sovereign state, has at its disposal a number of methods and means of protecting its national interests including . . . the armed forces."  He hardly needed to point that out, but that he chose to do so, and not, for example, to directly criticize Zhirinovsky's rant, seemed to validate it, if in an understated way.
But in Zhirinovsky's tirade there was little to laugh about.  Having tripled its defense budget since Putin became president in 2000, Russia has been engaging in an unprecedented military buildup, and has conducted large-scale military exercises, including one in its Baltic enclave of Kaliningrad (bordering Lithuania and Poland, both NATO members) and another simulating a nuclear attack on Poland – one of the places Zhirinovsky earlier threatened to bomb.  Russia retains a formidable nuclear arsenal – the only one capable of incinerating the United States (as one Russian TV commentator provocatively  pointed out during the early months of the Ukraine crisis).  Yes, Russia is, in other respects, a less than impressive adversary — its GDP accounts for only 3 percent of the world economy, for instance.  But its potential as a nuclear troublemaker is what counts here.  Among officials of a nuclear-armed power, there should be zero room for gratuitous talk of attacking neighbors.
The assembled State Duma deputies began putting questions to Putin that offered no cause for levity either.  Yelena Mizulina, author of the law banning "gay propaganda" to minors (and much other retrograde legislation), denounced the European Court of Human Rights as a "primitive tool for putting political pressure on Russia" and a "channel for interfering in Russia's internal affairs."  She also declared that "norms of international law" operate "only when they benefit the U.S. and leading countries of the West" – observations with which few Russians (and many non-Russians) would disagree.  Her conclusion, which she put to Putin: Russia must rewrite its constitution and ponder the annulment of Article 15, which designates "norms of international law and the international agreements of the Russian Federation" as an "essential component" of the country's legal system.
Putin rejected the idea of changing the constitution, but agreed with Mizulina that the European Court's verdicts were "politicized," and not concerned with upholding the law.  He suggested that should such rulings continue to come down, Russia would withdraw from the court's jurisdiction.  He added, to a burst of applause, that "The U.S.," to protect its national security, "unilaterally abrogated the treaty limiting offensive nuclear weapons . . . .  We will do exactly the same thing, if we decide it's necessary and in our interests."  Specifically, he appears to have had in mind the Bush administration's 2001 decision to withdraw from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty the Nixon administration concluded with the Soviet Union in 1972; the New START Treaty the Obama administration signed with Russia in 2010 remains in force.  (This was a rare lapse on Putin's part – he is usually in command of the relevant facts and figures for any given issue.)  But the gist of his words is nevertheless ominous: Russia may begin tearing up the documents on which peace and stability in the post-Cold War world has depended.
Putin also announced that Russia may ditch another key atomic weapons control agreement – the Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces Treaty (which bans the sort of missiles the Soviet Union once aimed at Europe, and led to the U.S. withdrawing its own similar missiles from the continent), signed with the United States in 1987.  Putin had already, as far back as 2007, declared the treaty as against Russia's interests, and he reaffirmed this position in Yalta.
The United States on multiple occasions has already accused Russia of violating the INF treaty, prompting the Foreign Ministry in Moscow to issue strongly worded denials.  But worries about the INF agreement seem almost beside the point.  In Yalta Putin also spoke of soon "surprising the West with our new developments in offensive nuclear weapons about which we do not talk yet" – and this, after Russian strategic nuclear bombers, say U.S. defense officials, violated American airspace 16 times in the past week and a half.
What are we to take away from the Yalta conference, with Putin's veiled threats to cease observing landmark treaties and international law?  And most important, what are we to do about it?
Based on what Russia under Putin has done both before and during the Ukraine crisis, we can expect Russia to continue turning away from the West, away from agreements with Western countries signed when the Soviet Union, or post-Soviet Russia, was at its weakest.  We should expect Putin to keep destabilizing Ukraine as long as that country may lurch westward, toward NATO, even if prospects for alliance membership are distant.  We should count on Putin never ceding Crimea to Kiev (in Yalta he explicitly called the peninsula's return to the Russian fold "absolutely legal").  We should not be surprised if Russia, citing as precedents the many questionable, even criminal, American interventions abroad in recent decades, acts unilaterally to defend its interests, which may mean disrupting the post-Cold War status quo.  We should, in other words, prepare ourselves for further, and far greater, turmoil on the international arena.
There is a way out. However distasteful the Obama administration finds Putin, it must learn to talk to him and cut deals.  Peace across the globe is threatened if the nuclear standoff between the United States and Russia resumes.  (If, for whatever reason, a conflict with NATO broke out and Russian conventional forces began to lose, is it reasonable to expect Russia to forgo deploying its stronger assets against alliance countries?)  If we have not paid attention to Russia before – the Obama administration is singularly guilty in this regard – we should start doing so now.  The world is not going to be as it was before the Euromaidan protests deposed Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych and Russia annexed Crimea.
In sum, we face a newly dangerous future, with the threat of a shooting war erupting between Russia and the West — unless we act, and act fast, to reestablish a working relationship with the Kremlin that recognizes legitimate Russian interests.  To do so, for starters, we should stop listening to our own declarations about NATO posing no threat to Russia.  NATO's troops, missiles, bases and where they are will be what counts for Russia, not mere verbiage.  To Americans, Putin's position vis-à-vis NATO should be comprehensible; the United States would not tolerate Soviet missiles in Cuba in 1962, and no doubt, following the Monroe Doctrine, it would permit no similar meddling around its borders today.
Peace across the globe is threatened if the nuclear standoff between the United States and Russia resumes in full force.  Even if it does not, we need to talk to the Russians.  The evacuation for NATO troops soon to be withdrawn from Afghanistan runs through Russia.  Russia wields considerable influence with Iran, with which the U.S. is trying to cut a nuclear deal, and Syria, the odious ruling regime of which could be a de facto ally in defeating the barbarous Islamic State.
Russia never bought into the liberal, "values-based" world order that American and European leaders believed (wishfully and quite erroneously) had prevailed over balance-of-power relations starting with the fall of the Soviet Union.
No informed, far-sighted statesman could have expected Putin to acquiesce to Ukraine joining an alliance created to counter his country militarily.  The architect of the United States' successful, Soviet-era containment policy (and thus no dove) George Kennan famously opposed the alliance's move east, calling it a "tragic mistake" that would likely end in a "hot" war.  And so it has turned out to be.  The United States and NATO need to publicly disavow any intention to induct Ukraine (and Georgia), which would remain non-bloc and neutral, just as Finland has. Russia in return would have to withdraw its troops from the country and forswear all attempts at destabilizing it. If they do intend to invite Ukraine, they need to explain what good the new members will bring the alliance, and ready themselves and their peoples for a potential  nuclear confrontation with Russia.
(In one respect, it may be too late.  In addition to tripling air patrols over the Baltics and scheduling military exercises in Poland this fall, NATO has just announced preliminary plans to set up new bases in Eastern Europe.  A final decision will take place at the NATO summit next month in Wales.)
The former head of U.S. Strategic Command, Gen. Lee Butler, famously remarked two decades ago that the United States and the Soviet Union managed to avoid a nuclear war "by some combination of skill, luck, and divine intervention, and I suspect the latter in greatest proportion."  To avert catastrophe, we will need considerably more "divine intervention" this time around, as history prepares to repeat itself not as farce, but as tragedy.  One (occasionally) rogue nuclear power was bad enough.  The world cannot abide two – and survive.                                       Jeffrey Tayler is a contributing editor at The Atlantic. His seventh book, "Topless Jihadis -- Inside Femen, the World's Most Provocative Activist Group," is out now as an Atlantic ebook. Follow @JeffreyTayler1 on Twitter. 

[scallop]

Razumem ja zašto se Rusija petlja u Ukrajini, ali mi nije jasno koliko se urođenik u SAD razume u petljanje njegove zemlje u Ukrajinu. I zašto, bre, trežnjenje uvek dolazi posle opijanja? Ameri bi jednom mogli i da razmisle pre nego krenu u kafanu. KO PIJE NE VOZI!

[Meho Krljic]

Ali pritom, ajde što se Amerika petlja, nego se petlja preko leđa Evrope, tako što Evropu antagonizuje sa Rusijom, Evropa treba da podnese veliku ekonomsku žrtvu i, ako se krene u ozbiljnije ratovanje, da ona ratuje uz nekakvu američki podršku eventualno. Naravno, američki hegemonistički interesi su jasni, ali Evropa je trebaloda ima pametniji način da obezbedi ravnotežu moći. Taj način je za sada upropašćen ponašanjem evropskih političara prema Rusiji i Ukrajini.

[scallop]

SAD su članica EU kao trajni predsedavajući.

[Meho Krljic]

Sa ekskluzivnim pravom veta 


Zanimljivo je da je Evropska komisija i dalje firma u kojoj se dobar deo odluka donosi konsenzusom:

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2013/06/11/decisions-made-by-consensus-in-the-council-of-the-european-union-emerge-from-the-coalition-building-behaviour-of-individual-governments/

Tu je ideja da ne mogu priču da diktiraju stalno najjače zemlje, ali nisam ni siguran da je ovo bolje rešenje...

[Meho Krljic]

U najmanje iznenađujućim novostima ovog meseca, Putin je počeo da priča o potencijalnoj "državnosti" istočnog dela Ukrajine:


  Putin seeks 'statehood' talks for east Ukraine

Moscow (AFP) - Russian President Vladimir Putin on Sunday sharply raised the stakes in the Ukraine conflict by calling for the first time for statehood to be considered for the restive east of the former Soviet state.
Putin's defiant remarks came just hours after the European Union gave Moscow -- which the bloc accuses of direct involvement in the insurgency -- a week to change course or face new sanctions.
"We need to immediately begin substantive talks... on questions of the political organisation of society and statehood in southeastern Ukraine," the Russian leader was quoted by Russian news agencies as saying.
Moscow has previously only called for greater rights under a decentralised federal system to be accorded to the eastern regions of Ukraine, where predominantly Russian-speakers live.
But Putin has this week sparked renewed speculation that he may be seeking to create a statelet in south-east Ukraine, after he employed a loaded Tsarist-era name "Novorossiya" to refer to the region.

Putin's tough talk also comes as rebels turned the tide on advancing Ukrainian troops, by snatching a series of towns and trapping the army in some.

Kiev has warned that it was on the brink of "full-scale war" with Moscow that Europe fears would put all of the continent at risk of conflict.
The European Union agreed to take "further significant steps" if Moscow did not rein in its support for the rebels, with new sanctions to be drawn up within a week.


Kiev said the invigorated rebel push of the past days has included substantial numbers of Russian regular army contingents who are now concentrating forces in big towns across the region.

"Terrorists and Russian soldiers continue to concentrate personnel and equipment in regional centres," said security spokesman Andriy Lysenko.
A ragtag mix of volunteer battalions and local residents were meanwhile bracing for a desperate defence of Mariupol, a strategic port city on the Azov Sea coast.


"We can hold them off, but for how long? We don't have the strength to beat them," said Panther, a tattooed fighter with the Azov battalion, said to be one of the most radical nationalist groups fighting in the area.
- 'Today Ukraine, tomorrow Europe' -
NATO last week accused Moscow of sending at least 1,000 troops to fight alongside the rebels, and presented satellite imagery showing artillery, tanks and armoured vehicles crossing the border.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel said the new sanctions would build on existing measures against Russia which mainly cover financial services, armaments and energy.
Lithuania's President Dalia Grybauskaite, whose Baltic nation is wary of the resurgent power on its eastern border, warned that "Russia is practically in a state of war against Europe" and urged EU military assistance to Kiev.


Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko urged in Brussels to take tougher steps against Russia's "military aggression and terror" and warned that a "full-scale war" with Moscow is closer than ever.
"Today we are talking about the fate of Ukraine, tomorrow it could be for all Europe."
Poroshenko said he expected the West to ramp up its arms supplies to Ukraine after discussions at a NATO summit in Wales on Thursday and Friday.
Although Russia continues to deny direct involvement in the conflict, there have been media reports of secret military funerals for those sent to fight in Ukraine.
Moscow admitted that Russian paratroopers had been captured in Ukraine, but alleged they crossed the border by accident.


On Sunday Russian and Ukrainian officials confirmed that a prisoner swap had taken place on the northeastern border with Ukraine.
"Nine Russian paratroopers were given to the Russian side" on Saturday evening, Lysenko said. A few hours later, 63 Ukrainian soldiers were handed over by Russia.
- Last city standing -
Rebels have pushed a lightning offensive around Ukraine's Azov Sea in the past week, prompting speculation of a possible attempt by Moscow to establish a corridor between Russia and the Crimean peninsula it annexed in March.
The rebels have advanced swiftly along the coast, capturing the town of Novoazovsk last Wednesday, just one day after Poroshenko met with Putin for talks that failed to achieve any breakthrough.
Alexander Zakharchenko, prime minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, told Russian media on Saturday that the insurgents were "preparing a second large-scale offensive."
At Mariupol, volunteers manning the barricades fear their trenches and barbed wire will be little match for the insurgents' tanks, but recognise the importance of their task.
"It is the last big town in the region under Ukrainian control, home to half a million people," commander of Ukraine's Azov battalion, Andriy Biletskiy told AFP.

Ili bar tako tvrde zapadnjaci. Russia Today ima istu vest u kojoj se kaže da Putin samo veli da treba da se diskutuje o uređivanju situacije:

Putin: Impossible to say when political crisis in Ukraine will end

Russian President Vladimir Putin has called on Kiev to start substantial talks on deescalating the crisis in eastern Ukraine. He added that it's an illusion to expect that the rebels would calmly watch their homes being destroyed.

"We have agreed on a plan, so its realization must be pursued," Putin told Channel 1 TV, adding that the Ukrainian government "must immediately start substantial talks – not a technical discussion – on the political organization of society and the state in southeast Ukraine so that the interests of people who live there are protected."
The plan, according to Russia's leader, puts negotiations at the center of the peace process. In a clear reference to the toppling of Viktor Yanukovich by the Maidan movement in February, Putin said that mistakes such as a power takeover should be avoided and called it the main cause of today's crisis.
The Russian president called on Kiev to consider the upcoming autumn and winter period and think about the heating season. The devastated infrastructure of the southeast requires full repair otherwise people might just freeze to death, he said.

"It looks as if only Russia cares about that. The first most essential condition is to stop combat operations and begin reconstruction of the infrastructure, replenish inventories, do the necessary repairs and scheduled maintenance to be ready for the cold season."
Putin said that, while the resolution of the crisis now mostly depends on Kiev, it is impossible to say when it may end. He said it could be explained by the upcoming Ukrainian parliamentary elections. Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko dismissed the country's parliament on August 25 and called parliamentary elections for October 26.
"All the participants in the electoral race will want to show how cool they are," Putin said. "Everyone will want to show they are strongmen or strongwomen, and as the political struggle sharpens it is hard to expect anyone to seek a peaceful resolution and not a military one."
At the same time, it is an illusion that the rebels would sit and patiently wait for the promised talks to start, Putin said, especially when they see "cities and towns in southeast Ukraine shelled to the ground with direct fire."  'Kiev used ceasefire to bring in more troops'  The Russian leader accused the Ukrainian military of reorganizing their forces during the ceasefire in humanitarian corridors granted by eastern self-defense militia to the trapped Ukrainian troops.
[The Ukrainian military] "used this pause to bring more troops and attempt to break the entrapments by force and lead their troops out," said president, pointing out that such actions created distrust and led to extensive fatalities.


In the 10 days of August self-defense militia trapped four large groups of Ukrainian troops, estimated at 7,000 personnel and hundreds of military vehicles.
President Putin called for self-defense militias in Ukraine to provide Kiev's military units blocked in the east of the country with a safe humanitarian corridor to leave the combat area and "reunite with their families."
The trapped Ukrainian troops were told to disarm and leave through the humanitarian corridors without their military hardware.
Kiev authorities never gave a definite answer to the initiative, however, and ordered their troops to break out by force. That explains the latest reports about a very limited number of Ukrainian servicemen surrendering, while the rest must have perished in suicidal attempts to break out.  'EU might find it hard to return to Russian market'  Commenting on the new batch of sanctions against Russia threatened by western countries, Putin advised his counterparts to think again about what they are advocating.
"What are the so-called European values then? Support for an armed coup, suppression of opponents with armed forces – so these are 'European values'? I believe our colleagues should be reminded of their own ideals," the president said.
As for the countermeasures Russia has taken, imposing a ban on certain food imports from the US, EU and several other countries, Putin believes the sanctioned European countries might find it hard to return to the Russian market. He expects new importers from Latin America, China and Russia's eastern neighbors to secure the market during the year, and then it would "very difficult, almost impossible to budge them."

[Meho Krljic]

Tvrdi se da su "ruske" ili "pro-ruske" snage masakrirale stotine ukrajinskih vojnika/ dobrovoljaca koji su se predali. To doduše ne javlja ni jedna krštena agencija ali polutabloidni sajtovi da. Zapadanjačka propaganda na delu ili primer ruske krvožednosti? Kakva dilema!!!!!!!



http://www.inquisitr.com/1445124/russian-troops-reportedly-massacre-ukranian-soldiers-waving-white-flags/

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/russian-troops-kill-hundreds-ukrainian-soldiers-report-article-1.1923064

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/hundreds-ukrainian-troops-massacred-pro-russian-4142110

[scallop]

Otkud toliko nesigurnosti? Znamo ko besomučno laže.

[Meho Krljic]

Ma, lažu i Rusi, nije da su oni istinoljubiviji od nekih drugih, nego je ovo prilično indikativno - ni Rojters ni AP ni niko nema ovu vest ali se ona proteže po nekakvim žutim medijima... Strašno je koliko tu nema minimalnog novinarskog morala.

[Meho Krljic]

Inače, ovo imate na aerodromu u Vladivostoku 

[ALEKSIJE D.]

Meho, Meho... Zar ti lepo nije onaj Lavrov objasnio kako je u pitanju velika video igrica i kako se ništa tamo ne dešava: ljudi šetaju, beru cveće i nemaju pojma o tome kako svet drhti nad njihovom sudbinom. Ameri, sa druge strane, gledaju to na TV, Obama pre svega, kao što je gledao likvidaciju onog bradonje (zaboravih mu već ime, zamisli!) a može biti da je gledao i prenos ragbi utakcimice na kojiu se kladio, a pustli mu igricu Cal of duti operacija Ukraina.
Isto kao i sa nama. To da je ovde bio rat, nije tačno. Eto vidiš da se svi sad prave kao da ništa nije bilo. Sad lepo da se izljubimo, pozdravimo, Merkelova će da spremi ručak, a Medlin će da ti oprosti što te bila i to je to...

[scallop]

Ma, lažu i Rusi, nije da su oni istinoljubiviji od nekih drugih, nego je ovo prilično indikativno - ni Rojters ni AP ni niko nema ovu vest ali se ona proteže po nekakvim žutim medijima... Strašno je koliko tu nema minimalnog novinarskog morala.

Rojters i AP i ostali će "preneti" vest i tako obezbediti sebe. Lopovi su to, moj Meho.

[Meho Krljic]

Ja se nadam da neće i da će time makar povući razdelnu liniju između koliko-toliko ozbiljnijih medija i ovog propagandnog treša...

[Meho Krljic]

Nego, Putin. Izjave vađene iz konteksta ili naprosto izmišljene, ali zapadni građani drhte od ovog novog Hitlera:



Vladimir Putin Continues Soviet Rhetoric by Questioning Kazakhstan's 'Created' Independence

Fears are growing in Kazakhstan over Moscow's rhetoric towards the country following Russia President Vladimir Putin's claim that "Kazakhstan never had any statehood", it was "created".
The Russian leader told a pro-Kremlin youth camp at Lake Seliger near Moscow that Kazakhstan's President Nursultan Nazarbayev had "created a state on a territory that never had a state."
"Kazakhs never had any statehood, he has created it," he said.
It is believed by analysts that Putin's statement of Kazakh independence only being achieved because of Nazarbayev is a warning that it could easily vanish when the 74-year-old is no longer in office.
In response, Nazarbayev warned that Kazakhstan may leave the Russian-led Customs Union, an economic coalition which includes Belarus, if it feels that its independence is threatened in any way by Moscow.
"Kazakhstan has a right to withdraw from the Eurasian Economic Union," he told the Kazakh television station Khabar.
"Kazakhstan will not be part of organisations that pose a threat to our independence."
Kazakhstan was the last Soviet republic to declare independence from the Soviet Union when it finally did so in December 1991.
"Our independence is our dearest treasure, which our grandfathers fought for," Nazarbayev added. "First of all, we will never surrender it to someone, and secondly, we will do our best to protect it."
Putin's comments conjure memories of a statement he made to former US President George Bush in 2008 when he said that "Ukraine is not even a state!" during a Bucharest summit.
According to The Moscow Times, many Kazakhs have taken to social media in counter Putin's claims that Kazakhstan "never had any statehood", demanding that people "send a history textbook to Putin".
Russia's annexation of the Crimea Peninsula and its alleged incursion into eastern Ukraine and support of pro-Russian separatists have contributed to fears in Astana that Moscow may set its sights on other areas of the former Soviet Union.

Ali ovo je zanimljivije:



Ukraine Crisis: 'If I Want, I Will Take Kiev in Two Weeks', Putin Warns EU's Barroso

Russian President Vladimir Putin has issued a threat to outgoing European Commission President Jose Manual Barroso that he could "take Kiev in two weeks" if he wanted, Italian media reports have said.
According to Italian newspaper La Repubblica, the Russian leader made the belligerent statement in a phone call with the outgoing EU leader, who is set to be replaced by Luxembourg's former prime minister Jean-Claude Juncker.
Despite the escalating tensions between all parties involved, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has told negotiators in the Belarussian capital of Minsk that an "immediate ceasefire" is Russia's priority.
However, both Ukraine and European Union member states accuse Russia of supporting the rebels fighting Kiev's forces with military supplies and personnel in eastern Ukraine.
Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko accused Russia of "direct and open aggression" in the eastern rebel-held cities of Luhansk and Donetsk.
Ukrainian forces have now withdrawn from Luhansk airport in the restive eastern region after firefights with pro-Russian separatists. Ukraine's security council confirmed that the troops had withdrawn "in an organised manner".
The reported exchange between Putin and Barroso comes as the Russian leader continues to refer to eastern Ukraine as 'New Russia" or "Novorossiya".
Fears are also growing in Kazakhstan over Moscow's rhetoric towards the country, following Putin's claim that "Kazakhs never had any statehood" and the country was simply "created".
In response, Nazarbayev warned that Kazakhstan may leave the Russian-led Customs Union, an economic coalition which includes Belarus, if it feels that its independence is threatened in any way by Moscow.
"Kazakhstan will not be part of organisations that pose a threat to our independence," he told the Kazakh television station Khabar.
The massing of thousands of Russian troops on Ukraine's border and reports of Russian incursions into Ukraine have put a spotlight on Moscow's intentions in the post-Soviet states bordering the member nations of the Nato military alliance.
UN agencies estimate that more than 2,600 people have been killed in the fighting between pro-Russian separatists and the Ukrainian military since April.

[Anomander Rejk]

Pa da, dosta je bilo mira i prosperiteta. Dajte malo straha, Putina i Islamske države, treba nam NATO, ulaganja u vojnu industriju i ratove. To je svetla budućnost.

[scallop]

Nego, Putin. Izjave vađene iz konteksta ili naprosto izmišljene, ali zapadni građani drhte od ovog novog Hitlera:

Sad zapadna štampa može da citira srpski sajt.

[Джон Рейнольдс]

Него, шта би с оним малезијским авионом? Нестаде и тај?

Али шалу на страну, оно чега се прибојавам ту у Украјини јесте неки озбиљан false flag пошто Империја Зла неће стати док не буде грубом силом заустављена, а flase flag операције су им с још увек приметном медијском супериорношћу играње на сигурно. Баш је пре неки дан кроз медије провучена причица о највећој украјинској нуклеарној електрани која је ту негде, иза ћошка где се рокање и није пропуштено да се нагласи да је стара и да не би поднела директно гранатирање. Оно што је занимљиво јесте да ту елекрану (заборавих јој име и мрзи ме сад да тражим) сада обезбеђује Национална гарда, а то су углавном нацисти из Десног сектора и сличан олош, а налази се на потезу ка Одеси где столује Коломојски, тајкун који је по свој прилици организовао, платио и заташкао масакр о коме, гле чуда, западни медији слабо пишу.

[SIMERIJANAC]

Командант укро батаљона Донбас Семјенченко показао лице.
А мислили смо да је маску носио да сакрије свој идентитет.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvIQbcPG7I4



Са оваквим командним кадром није ни чудо што су им толики губици на фронту.

[SIMERIJANAC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XTAQJqzYpU

[ALEKSIJE D.]

OVO dole desno je stvarno taj lik?
Mon Blan i Pelikan! Pa taj je u rangu onog nervoznog što je za vreme Olimpijade u Kini preduzeo ofanzivu i u toku tv prenosa jeo sopstvenu kravatu!

[SIMERIJANAC]

Ополченци прекидоше нацисте кд им је било најлепше.

[SIMERIJANAC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe3qfm_hlTw

[Loni]

Izgleda da je potpisano primirje što je i najbitnije. Da ljudi ne ginu.

[Anomander Rejk]

Ne verujem ja puno u primirje, bez jasnog političkog rešenja. U Hrvatskoj je svojevremeno bilo, 14 primirja, i manje više su kršena, i manje više su služila da se kupi vreme jednoj strani da se bolje naoruža.
Sve više sam ubeđen da je kriza i izazvana da se vrati hladni rat, očvrsne NATO i oslabe veze Rusije i Evrope.
Koristi od svega ima jedino SAD.
http://www.b92.net/info/vesti/index.php?yyyy=2014&mm=09&dd=05&nav_category=78&nav_id=896500

[Loni]

Koristi imaju zapravo svi osim Ukrajine.
I SAD i EU i Rusija.

Korist SAD - udaljavanje EU i Rusije.
Nemačko-rusko prijateljstvo postalo je toliko intenzivno sa otvorenom najavom ex Šrederove SPD da im je Nemačka značajnija od SAD, da je postojala opasnost od EU-RF planetarne jake koalicije. Ona e, posle ovog rata biti zamrznuta na... jednu deceniju otprilike.

Korist Rusije
Dobile Krim, a otvara se mogućnost da to budu još 2 regiona - Donjeck i Lugansk, u nekoj budućnosti. Uzgred, zategnute situacije uvek utvrđuju vlast koja dobija priliku da se predstavi kao spasilac.

Korist EU
Dobijena Ukrajina. Bar njen mejnstrim deo s Kijevom.
Legitimna želja svih malih naroda Evrope: Čeha, Belgijanaca, Danaca, Bugara, Estonaca itd. je da i oni budu deo neke imperije. To je naravno EU. U ovom sukobu skoro sve EU države disale su kao jedna. Naročito istočni deo.

UKRAJINA je gubitnik jer se nalazila između svetova. Između Brisela i Moskve, centara koji su vukli na svoju stranu. Baksuzluk je nalaziti se na tom mestu.

Međutim Ukrajina tu neće biti jedina. Potencijalna opasnost sledi i Srbiji.
Narod zbog slovenstva, pravoslavlja i prošlosti više okrenut Rusiji, a donacije i investicije čak 9 x stižu više od EU i od nje daleko više zavisi srpska ekonomija.
Na strani EU je i geografija. EU koja teži da bude buduća imperija sigurno neće dozvoliti rusko ostrvo usred njene teritorije. Pa i da je svih 100 % građana prorusko, EU će od Rusije otkupiti ovaj deo u zamenu za neki ustupak Rusiji (Abhazija, Južna Osetija, nezavisnost Donjecka i Luganska, Gruzija pod ruskim uticajem itd).

Srbiji najviše odgovara varijanta gde se EU i Rusija slažu. U okviru nje možeš da budeš i deo EU, a opet i prijatelj Rusiji i most ka njoj (Kao što je Portugal i deo EU i most ka Brazilu). Međutim u varijanti kada su EU i Rusija antipodi, to neće biti dobro za Srbiju pa se oko 2020. godine kad bude bio referendum za ili čprotiv pristupanja u EU, može očekivati velika mržnja međui samim Srbima oko ta dva koncepta.

[Anomander Rejk]

Ukrajina jje svakako najveći gubitnik, to nije sporno, ali gubitnici su i Rusija i EU. Jedini dobitnik je USA.
Strah od ruske imperije je najobičnija budalaština. Rusija ima jedva 120 000 000 stanovnika, i čak da ima sredstva i mogućnosti da pokori Evropu, savršeno joj je jasno da nema stanovništva koje bi je moglo držati i pokriti taj prostor. Sem Poljske, baltičkih i skandinavskih zemalja koje imaju tradicionalno loše odnose sa Rusijom i tešku istoriju s njom, niko drugi se nije primio na te američke nebuloze. Čak ni Česi, Slovaci, Mađari koji imaju vrlo loše istorijske periode s Rusijom. Mađari su čak otvoreno rekli da su sankcijE Rusiji štetne i nepotrebne. Cela priča o strahu od Rusije je debelo naduvana , da bi se naravno opravdalo širenje NATO.

Ček, ček...kako to misliš da nas EU otkupi od Rusije? ,,Ovaj deo?'' A šta bi sa onim tvojim stavovima da svaka zemlja ima pravo samostalnog odlučivanja?Ako mi npr. odlučimo na referendumu da nećemo u EU, hoće li to EU poštovati, ili će nam spakovati neko ,,događanje naroda'' tipa Majdan, pa će nas puškama ubediti da smo pogrešno glasali?

[Loni]

Rusija ima bome 146 miliona ljudi s potencijalom i za duplo više.

Što se tiče bukvalnog pogleda, naravno da svaka zemlja ima pravo da se odluči kome li će privoleti carstvu.
To jeste osnovni stub demokratije.
Međutim ja mislim na jednu daleko suptilniju igru.

Reč je o tzv. propagandi koja formira javno mnjenje.
Ništa u politici nije spontano.
Nisu Srbi većinski spontani rusofili već su to zato što ovde postoji čitav niz medija i organizacija koje tu rusofiliju propovedaju, kao i novac od Gasproma.

Ako bi recimo cela EU bila ujedinjena maltene kao jedisntvena država, a samo Srbija ostrvo u okviru nje
koje je rusofilksko, suptilnim dilom Brisel može da kaže Moskvi - Ne kvarite nam imperiju. Pustite ih niz vodu. Ne finansirajte više pokrete kao što su radikali, dveri, dss, a prestanite sa forsiranjem proruske politike u Večernjim novostima, Pečatu, Nin-u, Trećem oku, Pravdi, Informeru i Kuriru.

Mi ćemoza uzvrat da zažmurimo na dan kad Abhazija ili Lugansk budu organizovali referendum za prisajedinjenje ili ćemo vam učiniti ustupak tako što ćemo prozaopadne partije iz Gruzije koja je tik uz Rusiju, pustiti niz vodu.

Da žive i zaokružena Evropska i Ruska Imperija bez rupa u svojim stomacima.

[Anomander Rejk]

Pa to što sad pišeš nije baš utemeljeno u činjenicama. ,,Proruska'' propaganda je svedena na listove koje drže bivši socijalisti i sl., i minorne pokrete. Vlast u Srbiji nije proruska, već je čine proevropske partije. Čija je propaganda daleko veća. Daj, nemoj zezati, nema dana da u novinama i vestima ne čujem bar dvadeset puta ,,evropska unija'' , ,,evrointegracije'', ,,evroatlantske integracije'' , ,,naš evropski put nema alternativu''. Non stop nas bombarduju s tim, da nam slučajno ne bi izašlo iz malog mozga. Malo sam stariji od tebe, i pamtim da je ovako jaka propaganda za nešto postojala još samo za Broza i bratstvo i jedinstvo. Mogao bih recimo postaviti pitanje, mada ne sporim da je nenasilna propaganda legitimna, koliko mi u stvari uopšte imamo slobodu izbora, ako nas konstantno, godinama, preko svih medija, ubeđuju da nema izbora, osim tog?

[scallop]

Naročito me je nasmejalo što si "malo stariji" od Lonija i što se sećaš "propagande za Broza". Ovaj ZS forum je čudo od dezinformacije.

[Anomander Rejk]

Da, vrlo dobro se sećam pionira, takmičenja ,,Titovim stazama revolucije'' na kojima sam kao đak i učestvovao, sećam se parola ,,i poslije Tita Tito''. Sećam se i Drvara koji je se ponosio što je dao toliko života da zaštiti tog istog Tita, a zauzvrat dobio samo dodatak Titov u nazivu. Mnogo toga je valjalo i bilo dobro, dosta bolje nego danas, ali da je bilo propagande i mazanja očiju, itekako je bilo.

[scallop]

    Bre, ni u školu nisi išao kad je Tito umro.

[Loni]

Krenomo redom...

POLITIKA - proruska;
Lazanski upravo danas piše 1000. tekst u kome se veliča ruska armija. Za borce van Ukrajine sa ruske strane kaže DOBROVOLJCI, a za one koji su došli da ratuju za UKR kaže STRANI PLAĆENICI.
Svinja jedna.  Odakle njemu pravo da sam određuje s koje strane su dobrovoljci, a sa koje strani plaćenici.
Je l to nekom umu neverovatno da pretpostavi da nekom Rusija nije u srcu nego bi ratovao za nju tek zbog love i obrnuto.
Zašto neko srcem ne bi voleo Ukrajinu?
Tu su i redovni proruski tekstovi Vukadinovića, Antonića i Smajlovićke. Hvalospevi Dodika i Kusturice.

VEČERNJE NOVOSTI - proruske:
Mirjana Bobić Mojsilović kao za KGB da radi. Mila Alečković redovno prisutna.

INFORMER - proruski; Iz aviona se vidi.

KURIR - proruski; Non stop se ističe da sa zapadne strane dolaze Pritisci.

PEČAT - na naslovnoj medved i natpis ,,Rusi dolaze''. Poenta apsolutno svakog teksta je širiti mržnju prema zapadu, a Srbima nuditi rusifikaciju.

TREĆE OKO - O ikonama svete Rusije, intervju Lava Geršmana. Porusice naravno ne propuštaju a da se ne obrate ni ljubiteljima teorija zavere. Sve šta je sa zapada je zločinačko i trulo po ovom listu. Sve šta je u Rusiji je sveto.

Ja ne mogu da se setim više nijednog medija koji je us suprotnom fazonu, osim E-Novina i Peščanika.
Premalo u odnosu na razne sajtove srpskih nacionalista i desničarke organizacije koje se roje ko pčele na livadi u rano proleće.

B92 usled promene strukture više okuplja antizapadnjake nego evropejce.   


    Sve bi to bilo logično da je naprednjačka vlast otvoreno proruska, ali nije.
    Licemeri su to. Hoće da sede na više stolica.
    Nek se opredele za jednu, pa ako su za EU onda lepo ne traži lovu i investicije sa zapada,
a ako je za Rusiju onda se ne foliraj da priznaješ Ukrajinu sa Krimom, ako navijaš za Ukrajinu bez Krima.
    Licemeri ko i postžinđićevski DS što je bio.

[scallop]

A ti si tu da nam objasniš? Da li je moguće da je nekom dojadilo stalno nasilje Zapada? Ucenjivanje EU? Istovremeno, da nije zainteresovan da Rusija zauzme poziciju Zapada? Ja sam mnogo stariji od tebe, za razliku od Anomandera i bio sam na strani SAD kad im se SSSR prišunjao do Kube. Sada su SAD voljne da se zakače na prag Rusije i ona mora da reaguje. Da li se zapitaš zašto se ne karaju na Beringovom moreuzu, nego u prenastanjenoj Evropi? Fukara je željna da se okruži "saveznicima" kako bi mogla da folira svoju naciju. Prosto je neverovatna mera nemorala u ponašanju nekoga ko se prestavlja kao svetski zaštitnik demokratije. Uzgred, reci mi da li iko na svetu ima više institucija za nadzor i kontrolu kako svoje tako i svih drugih na Zemlji od SAD.

[Loni]

Ucenjivanje EU?
Ja ga ne vidim osim ako nije reč o tome da oni nama treba da daju love.

Ko ti daje toliko donacija i ko toliko investira i ko te je oslobodio viza (uprkos hiljadama nelegalnih useljenika) ima pravo da postavlja uslove.

Da Vi meni pozajmljujete ili poklanjate novac, a ja Vama ništa, imate potpuno pravo da mi postavljate i uslove.

I druge zemlje takođe kontrolišu svoje građane itekako. Nova tehnologija omogućava da se ubica nađe na osnovu blizine žrtvinog telefona. Tehnološki je moguće mnogo toga.
A što se tiče Kube, ona je ipak drugo. Na sred Karipskog mora nije baš toliko dvorište SAD,
koliko je Srbija dvorište EU.

Ja ne idealizujem nikog, ali smatram da male zemlje Evrope njih 50 imaju pravo da žele da budu deo jedne velike imperije
kao što to već jesu građani velike Amerike, velike Kine, velike Rusije, velike Indije ili vilikog Brazila (Indonezije)...
Kad vidim te zemlje na karti kako su male, a druge kako su velike, shvatim da je upravo to najveća geostrateška nepravda.
Imamo pravo da sanjamo o EU i da se suprotstavljamo onim silama koje bi EU da sruše bilo da je reč o Americi, Rusiji ili Kini.
Kad je reč o Srbiji najveći protivnici EU su rusofili, a ne amerofili kojih ovde maltene da i nema.

[scallop]

Ajde malo se suprotstavi Americi. Za promenu.

[Albedo 0]

Ucenjivanje EU?
Ja ga ne vidim osim ako nije reč o tome da oni nama treba da daju love.

Ko ti daje toliko donacija i ko toliko investira i ko te je oslobodio viza (uprkos hiljadama nelegalnih useljenika) ima pravo da postavlja uslove.

Da Vi meni pozajmljujete ili poklanjate novac, a ja Vama ništa, imate potpuno pravo da mi postavljate i uslove.

[scallop]

Rokaj, Bato!

[varvarin]

Čitam i forum na B92, zbog OVAKVE situacije u Ukrajini baš su nešto ljuti ovi eurofanovi...

Inače: http://www.b92.net/info/vesti/index.php?yyyy=2014&mm=09&dd=06&nav_category=78&nav_id=896835

Lukašenko: SAD nas guraju u klanicu

Za ukrajinsku krizu Lukašenko je okrivio SAD. "Ujka Sem s druge strane okeana nas gura u tu klanicu a, budimo iskreni, mnogi političari u Ukrajini izvršavaju njegove naloge", rekao je Lukašenko u današnjem razgovoru za televiziju Rosija 1, a prenosi Itar-Tass...

http://www.b92.net/info/vesti/index.php?yyyy=2014&mm=09&dd=06&nav_category=78&nav_id=896727

"Rusiji sankcije, a Putin pobednik"

...Komentatori mnogih zapadnoevropskih medija ocenjuju da je na samitu NATO bila vidljiva podela između "jastrebova" na čelu sa SAD koji su "Evropu gurali ka odmeravanju snaga i okršaju s Rusijom", kako je napisao francuski list Figaro, i onih koji su bili za to da se, uz vojno jačanje saveznika na istoku, ne sruše mostovi za moguću i celom kontinentu potrebnu saradnju s Rusijom...
...Bivši šef francuske diplomatije Iber Vedrin upozorio je da se "ne može mrzeti Putin, jer će Rusija uvek biti tu".

[Loni]

   Ne tvrdim ja da je EU bezrešna, ali da sve loše stvari u svojoj imperiji možemo ispraviti mi Evropljani.

   Srbija će od 2020. najverovatnije biti integralni deo EU i tada više neće biti ,,oni'' i ,,mi'' već samo ,,mi''.
   Biće vremena da se sve loše stvari isprave.
   

[Ugly MF]

Jeboteeeee...
Ne verovatan tip!
Loni je one of a kind!
Il je to tolko neupucen tip, il tolko ispranog mozga...ili bre nadam se da je placen da siri ovu propagandu (da mogu da ga razumem)!
On je bre skolski primer sta svi ovi "vladari" zele da naprave od nas!
Ali skroz!
Loni, ti si izgubljen slucaj!
Definitivno!

[Loni]

Isto mogu da kažem i za tebi slične.

Ispran mozak, ali vodom sa suprotnog izvora.

[Джон Рейнольдс]

Само што Империја (Зла) није ваша. Европљани.  Самим тим не можете исправити ништа и свако ко мисли да може, тај је глуп.

Да не колутам само очима, ево и мало смеха о тој "не липши магарче до 2020":

http://www.blic.rs/Vesti/Politika/492913/Ukidanje-komesara-za--prosirenje-EU-losa-vest-za-nas

[Anomander Rejk]

Loni, jel ti nas zafrkavaš?
Al ozbiljno pitam.
Kao dokaz proruskih medija navodiš mi informer i treće oko? Evo ja kao dokaz proevropske agende u Srbiji navodim časopis ,,Mogućnosti telepatskog heklanja i vezenja.'' Uticaj pomenutog časopisa na narodne mase je nemerljiv.

[Anomander Rejk]

   Ne tvrdim ja da je EU bezrešna, ali da sve loše stvari u svojoj imperiji možemo ispraviti mi Evropljani.

   Srbija će od 2020. najverovatnije biti integralni deo EU i tada više neće biti ,,oni'' i ,,mi'' već samo ,,mi''.
   Biće vremena da se sve loše stvari isprave.
   

,,Mi'' ,,ja'' , ,,ti'' nikad nećemo biti ravnopravni evropljani, niti ćemo u istoj imperiji bilo šta odlučivati. O toj imperiji se odlučuje u Vašingtonu, Berlinu i Londonu, nešto manje u Rimu i Parizu. ,,Evropljani'' iz Srbije, Bugarske, Rumunije, Hrvatske i sličnih zemalja neće odlučivati ni o čemu u toj imperiji, niti ih ko pita tamo za mišljenje. Jesi čuo nekidan premijera, kako evropljani vode s nama ,,dijalog'' ? Pošalju nam mejl na koji trebamo ofgovoriti u roku od dva sata, da se slažemo sa svime što je u njemu. Na koji način misliš da ćemo se ,,mi'' bilo šta pitati u EU Imperiji?

[Albedo 0]

pa reko ti je čovjek, mi Evropljani, ne mi Srbi

[Ugly MF]

A BRE!
KAd ce svima da postane jasno da je sto se tice nase vlade , Srbija u Eu, jednako Sargarepa za magarca.
A eu nama je " Kupi ciglu da te ne bije maler", i ti krenes da placas i placas, a on ti ne da ciglu jos uvek...

Ko to ne ukapira, nikad i nista nece!

[Ugly MF]

Isto mogu da kažem i za tebi slične.

Ispran mozak, ali vodom sa suprotnog izvora.

Pa t imozes da kazes, ali ja svoje mogu da dokazem da postoji, a ti samo lupetas sto su ti rekli, eeeej!

[Loni]

A da je Srbija deo Ruske Federacije kao bila biravnopravna sa Moskvom i sankt Peterburgom?
Ili sa onim krajevima koje imaju mnogo nafte i gasa? Tjumen i Krasnojarsk?
Bi malo sutra!

Pa ni u Srbiji nisu ravnopravni Beograd i neko tamo Vranje ili Bačko Gradište.

Kad smo već kod Beograda u ujedinjenoj EU može dosta da profitira.
Nalazi se tačno u centru Balkana. Između Jadranskog i crnog mora. Između Egejskog i srednje Evrope.
Ključni deo EU i s obzirom na središnu poziciju Srbija kao lider regiona, a ne kao slepo crevo i enklava Ruske Federacije. 

[Albedo 0]

Pa ni u Srbiji nisu ravnopravni Beograd i neko tamo Vranje ili Bačko Gradište.

zar ti ne živiš u Vranju?

[Loni]

   Nemam veze s Vranjem osim što sam jednom bio tamo.
No veoma poštujem svaki region iako važnost nije ista.

   Na kraju krajeva nije ni Kentaki u SAD jednako važan kao Kalifornija, Teksas ili Njujork, ali grabi prednosti što je deo SAD.
   To što Srbija neće biti bitna kao Francuka i Nemačka ne treba da nas pogađa. Prirodno je da je neko veći, neko manji.