Arapske revolucije

[Albedo 0]

4. Što bi neko drugi na njihovom mestu bio mnogo gori nego oni.

ovo je zanimljivo, jer se stvarno tako ponašaju. Kao kad bi mi Ameri otišli bilo bi vam još gore, samo još važnije je što bi Amerima bilo gore u svakom slučaju ako bi se odrekli (belo)svjetske uloge.

Mi imamo opcije: biće nam ili bolje ili gore. Njima će sigurno biti gore.

[Albedo 0]

Kolega objašnjava ljudskopravaški sistem:

Situacija je sada već malo jasnija. Bombardovaće i vojne i civilne ciljeve nevezano za to da li imaju konkretan povod, jer žele da razjebu državu, nanesu joj teške materijalne gubitke i slome moral stanovništva koje podržava Gadafija. Usput ako pobunjenici zauzmu još koji grad, ako ne - napraviće se de facto podela tamo gde se trupe zateknu. Staće oni sa napadima u nekom trenutku, do Tripolija se neće ići odmah, jer bi to zahtevalo još žešće bombardovanje, još veće žrtve i kopnenu intervenciju i okupaciju. Ali, opstanak Gadafija na vlasti u delu zemlje (makar to bio i veći deo) neće biti dugotrajan - teritorijalno okrnjena država sa zonom zabranjenog leta nad sobom, u ekonomskoj izolaciji i sa slomljenim moralom ljudi, neće imati šanse da funkcioniše ni izbliza kao do sada, dok je bila neka vrsta dobro uređene socijalne države. I onda će Zapad i njegovi klijenti reći: "Gadafi je kriv za to što nemate šta da jedete, smenite ga i ukidamo izolaciju". Kao što su svojevremeno Miloševića skinuli, ne bombama, već tako što su narod doveli u ekonomski nepodnošljivu situaciju da bi ga ovaj sam smenio, jer drugog izlaza nije imao. Samo što ovde situacija neće ispasti ni blizu ružičasta kao u Srbiji - plemenski sukobi tek će da se rasplamsaju nakon pada Gadafija, oko nafte tek ima da se biju i domaći i strani subjekti i eto novog građanskog rata i potrebe za stranom okupacijom koja će da završi još gore od onih u Iraku i Avganistanu.

[Meho Krljic]

Pa, dobro, to je valjda jasno. Ovo zvuči kao scenario razuman svima nama koji smo to već prošli.

Nego, naše vlasti su konačno skucale izjavu. Kojja je urnebesna i mogla bi se sažeti u "Mi bi da se jebemo ali da nam ne uđe". Još luđa od izjave koju je čitao Jeremić je priča DS-a, iz usta Nade Kolundžije (koju ja inače seksualno fetišizujem) a koja bi se mogla svesti na "Jebiga, vidi šta rade ovi Amerikanci, ali dobro, nemoj sad mi tu da se mešamo, jebiga, mali smo, pusti principe, gledaj dupe." Čeda je, iznenađujuće dao najpošteniju izjavu :

Србија забринута због ситуације у Либији

Влада Србије забринута због ситуације у Либији и угрожавања живота цивила. Шеф српске дипломатије Вук Јеремић позвао на прекид ратних разарања и прекомерну употребу силе, која проузрокује старадање цивила.

Министар спољних послова Вук Јеремић изјавио је да је Србија "забринута и несрећна" због тренутне ситуације у Либији и додао да је сада најважније да престану борбена дејства и страдања цивила.


Јеремић је, на конференцији за новинаре после сусрета са португалским колегом Луишом Амадом, рекао да Србија као одговорна чланица међународне заједнице подржава све одлуке Савета безбедности Уједињених нација, али да, са друге стране, подржава територијалну целовитост и суверенитет Либије.

Поводом ваздушних напада на Либију, шеф српске дипломатије је рекао да је Србија имала горко искуство са ваздушним нападима и да зато позива на прекид ратних разарања и прекомерну употребу силе која проузрокује старадање цивила.

Поводом ситуације у Либији, где већ четврти дан траје интервенција међународне коалиције против снага лојалних Моамеру Гадафију, први пут се огласила и Влада Србије, изражавајући забринутост због угрожавања живота цивила у сукобима.

У саопштењу Владе се наводи да Србија позива на поштовање Резолуције Савета безбедности УН број 1973 и међународног хуманитарног права, како би се хитно зауставило страдање цивила и даља разарања.

"Србија у потпуности подржава територијални интегритет и целовитост Либије", саопштила је Канцеларија за сарадњу са медијима Владе Србије.

О Либији се прво говорило у српском парламенту, на иницијативу Либерално-демократске партије, која је затражила да се Влада Србије изјасни и саопшти став у вези са дешавањима у Либији и страдањем цивила.

Лидер ЛДП-а Чедомир Јовановић је рекао да је Влада Србије нема пред "бруталним обрачуном Гадафија према својим грађанима" и позвао је на хитну реакцију и осуду страдања цивила.

"Оно што се тамо данас дешава је само страдање других цивила, цивила у Триполију и то није политика са којом ми треба да се солидаришемо, то је политика коју треба да осудимо и да предложимо мере којима ће тај проблем бити превазиђен и решен, а очигледно је да ћутимо због тога што смо прво били Гадафијеви кловнови, а сада бисмо да будемо Обамини кловнови", оценио је Јовановић.

Тим поводом, шефица посланичке групе "За европску Србију" Нада Колунџија рекла је да се Србија залаже за поштовање људских права и да бомбардовање неке земље није најсрећнији начин да се та права и остваре.

"Важно је да је јасан став Србије да се залаже за поштовање људских права са једне стране, али са друге стране, Србија има разлога да верује да бомбардовање неке земље није најсрећнији начин да се остварују људска права", рекла је Колунџија новинарима у републичком парламенту.

Одговарајући на питање какав став Србија треба да заузме поводом дешавања у Либији, Колунџија је рекла да није упутно да Србија "превише троши своје ограничене спољно-политичке ресурсе".

[Albedo 0]

ocenio je Čeda klovn.

[Джон Рейнольдс]

Vlasi, da li ste se setili? 

[Albedo 0]

[mac]

Vidi koliko Betmena!

Anyway, i Jon Stewart ima da kaže nešto na temu Libije. Prvo ide uvod u rat, problem s novcem i ratni novogovorom (novi buzzword: enabling), a u drugom delu dokrajčava s ponudom "freedom package". Na kraju se podsećamo kako je Amerika počela svoj imperijalizam, od Kube do Havaja. A mustsee.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/mon-march-21-2011-sarah-vowell

[Melkor]

Genijalno

[Melkor]

Kad smo kod genijalnog:

The US military would not give the exact location the F-15E Eagle came down, but said both crewmen suffered only minor injuries after ejecting.

The aircraft was based in England and was operating out of Aviano in Italy. It was on a mission against a Gaddafi missile site, the Pentagon said.

One Libyan who came across the crashed jet told Britain's Daily Telegraph that one pilot held his hands in the air and said "OK, OK", but was quickly thanked by locals for his participation in the air strikes.

Younis Amruni told the Telegraph: "I hugged him and said 'don't be scared, we are your friends'."

A reporter for Britain's Channel 4 said six villagers were shot and injured as a US helicopter attempted to rescue the crew. She said one man expected his young son to lose a leg due to a bullet wound but that the locals did not appear resentful over the shootings.

A ako ste se pitali kako znaju sta Gadafi radi:

Fighting between Col Gaddafi's forces and the rebels continued on Tuesday, despite the declaration of a ceasefire by the government:

    * A doctor in Misrata - the last rebel-held city in western Libya - told the BBC that residents had suffered another night of shelling by government forces, with 22 deaths and 100 injuries
    * In Zintan, near the Tunisian border, one resident told Reuters at least 10 people had been killed in a Gaddafi bombardment
    * In Yafran, 130km south-west of Tripoli, at least nine people were killed in clashes, residents said
    * Gaddafi forces continue to hold rebels on the eastern frontline near Ajdabiya

Many of the reports of overnight strikes and fighting cannot be independently confirmed.

[Джон Рейнольдс]

"Many of the reports of overnight strikes and fighting cannot be independently confirmed."

How yes no.

[Albedo 0]

Jon Stewart pokidao

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-march-21-2011/odyssey-dawn---unconstitutional-war

[scallop]

Šta će im sad potvrda, "proveravaće" kasnije.

[Meho Krljic]

E, sad:

Stanje na terenu redovno:

Snipers, shells, tanks terrorize key Libyan city

By HADEEL AL-SHALCHI and RYAN LUCAS, Associated Press Hadeel Al-shalchi And Ryan Lucas, Associated Press – Tue Mar 22, 11:25 pm ET
TRIPOLI, Libya – Moammar Gadhafi's snipers and tanks are terrorizing civilians in the coastal city of Misrata, a resident said, and the U.S. military warned Tuesday it was "considering all options" in response to dire conditions there that have left people cowering in darkened homes and scrounging for food and rainwater.

The U.S. is days away from turning over control of the air assault on Libya to other countries, President Barack Obama said. Just how that will be accomplished remains in dispute: Obama spoke Tuesday with British Prime Minister David Cameron and French President Nicolas Sarkozy in hopes of quickly resolving the squabble over the transition.

"When this transition takes place, it is not going to be our planes that are maintaining the no-fly zone. It is not going to be our ships that are necessarily enforcing the arms embargo. That's precisely what the other nations are going to do," the president said at a news conference in El Salvador as he neared the end of a Latin American trip overshadowed by events in Libya.

Gadhafi, meanwhile, made his first public appearance in a week, promising enthusiastic supporters at his residential compound in Tripoli, "In the short term, we'll beat them, in the long term, we'll beat them."

Libyan state TV broadcast what it said was live coverage of Gadhafi's less-than-five-minute statement. Standing on a balcony, he denounced the coalition bombing attacks on his forces.

"O great Libyan people, you have to live now, this time of glory, this is a time of glory that we are living," he said.

State TV said Gadhafi was speaking from his Bab Al-Aziziya residential compound, the same one hit by a cruise missile Sunday night. Reporters were not allowed to enter the compound as he spoke.

Heavy anti-aircraft fire and loud explosions sounded in Tripoli after nightfall, possibly a new attack in the international air campaign that so far has focused on military targets. Two explosions were heard in the city before daybreak Wednesday.

One of Gadhafi's sons may have been killed, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told ABC News on Tuesday. She cited unconfirmed reports and did not say which son she meant. She said the "evidence is not sufficient" to confirm this.

Clinton also told ABC that people close to Gadhafi are making contact with people abroad to explore options for the future, but she did not say that one of the options might be exile. She said they were asking, "What do we do? How do we get out of this? What happens next?"

Despite the allies' efforts to keep Gadhafi from overwhelming rebel forces trying to end his four-decade rule, conditions have deteriorated sharply the last major city the rebels hold in western Libya.

Residents of Misrata, 125 miles (200 kilometers) southeast of Tripoli, say shelling and sniper attacks are unrelenting. A doctor said tanks opened fire on a peaceful protest Monday.

"The number of dead are too many for our hospital to handle," said the doctor, speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisals if the city falls to Gadhafi's troops. As for food, he said, "We share what we find and if we don't find anything, which happens, we don't know what to do."

Neither the rebels nor Gadhafi's forces are strong enough to hold Misrata or Ajdabiya, a key city in the east that is also a daily battleground. But the airstrikes and missiles that are the weapons of choice for international forces may be of limited use.

"When there's fighting in urban areas and combatants are mixing and mingling with civilians, the options are vastly reduced," said Fred Abrahams, a special adviser at Human Rights Watch. "I can imagine the pressures and desires to protect civilians in Misrata and Ajdabiya are bumping up against the concerns about causing harms to the civilians you seek to protect."

It is all but impossible to verify accounts within the two cities, which have limited communications and are now blocked to rights monitors such as the International Committee for the Red Cross.

Most of eastern Libya is in rebel hands but the force — with more enthusiasm than discipline — has struggled to take advantage of the gains from the international air campaign, which appears to have hobbled Gadhafi's air defenses and artillery and rescued the rebels from impending defeat.

The coalition includes the U.S., Canada, several European countries and Qatar. Qatar was expected to start flying air patrols over Libya by this weekend, becoming the first member of the Arab League to participate directly in the military mission.

The Obama administration is eager to relinquish leadership of the hurriedly assembled coalition. A NATO-led operation would require the unanimous support of member nations but two of them, France and Turkey, do not want the alliance to take over.

A compromise was emerging that would see NATO take a key role, but the operation would be guided by a political committee of foreign ministers from the West and the Arab world.

Obama defended U.S. involvement against criticism from several members of Congress, including some fellow Democrats.

"It is in America's national interests to participate ... because no one has a bigger stake in making sure that there are basic rules of the road that are observed, that there is some semblance of order and justice, particularly in a volatile region that's going through great changes," Obama said.

Visiting post-revolution Tunisia, U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon called on all nations to support the coalition effort in Libya. "Thousands of lives are still at stake. We could well see a further humanitarian emergency," Ban said.

Germany, which abstained in the U.N. Security Council vote, took a concrete step Tuesday to underline its reservations, pulling its ships and crews from NATO operations in the Mediterranean to avoid taking part in the operation against Libya,

Ajdabiya, a city of 140,000 that is the gateway to the east, has been fought over for a week. Outside the city, a ragtag band of hundreds of fighters milled about on Tuesday, clutching mortars, grenades and assault rifles. Some wore khaki fatigues. One man sported a bright white studded belt.

Some men clambered up power lines in the rolling sand dunes of the desert, squinting as they tried to see Gadhafi's forces inside the city. The group periodically came under artillery attacks, some men scattering and others holding their ground.

"Gadhafi is killing civilians inside Ajdabiya," said Khaled Hamid, who said he had been in Gadhafi's forces but defected to the rebels.

Ahmed Buseifi, 32, said he was in Libya's special forces for nine years before joining the opposition. He said other rebellious special forces had entered Ajdabiya and Brega, another contested city, hoping to disrupt government supply lines. The airstrikes, he said, leveled the playing field.

"If not for the West, we would not have been able to push forward," he said.

A U.S. fighter jet on a strike mission against a government missile site crashed Monday night in eastern Libya, about 25 miles (40 kilometers) outside the rebel capital of Benghazi. Both crewmen ejected safely as the aircraft spun from the sky during the third night of the U.S. and European air campaign.

The crash, which the U.S. attributed to mechanical failure, was the first major loss for the U.S. and European military air campaign.

By Tuesday afternoon, the plane's body was mostly burned to ash, with only the wings and tail fins intact. U.S. officials said both crew members were safe in American hands.

One of the pilots parachuted into a rocky field and hid in a sheep pen on Hamid Moussa el-Amruni's family farm.

"We didn't think it was an American plane. We thought it was a Gadhafi plane. We started calling out to the pilot, but we only speak Arabic. We looked for him and found the parachute. A villager came who spoke English and he called out, 'We are here, we are with the rebels,' and then the man came out," el-Amruni said.

A second plane strafed the field where the pilot went down. el-Amruni himself was shot, suffered shrapnel wounds in his leg and back. He propped himself up with an old broomstick and said he bore no grudge, believing it was an accident.

The pilot left in a car with the Benghazi national council, taking with him the water and juice the family provided. They kept his helmet and parachute.

Since the uprising began on Feb. 15, the opposition has been made up of disparate groups even as it took control of the entire east of the country. Only a few of the army units that defected have actually joined in the fighting, as officers try to coordinate a force with often antiquated, limited equipment.

In Misrata, the doctor said rebel fighters were vastly outgunned.

"The fighters are using primitive tools like swords, sticks and anything they get from the Gadhafi mercenaries," he said.

Mokhtar Ali, a Libyan dissident in exile who is still in touch which his family in Misrata, said rooftop snipers target anyone on the street, and residents trapped inside have no idea who has been killed.

"People live in total darkness in terms of communications and electricity," Ali said. "Residents live on canned food and rainwater tanks."

U.S. Navy Adm. Samuel J. Locklear said intelligence confirmed that Gadhafi's forces were attacking civilians in Misrata, Libya's third-largest city, and said the international coalition was "considering all options" there. He did not elaborate, but Misrata is one of the cities that Obama has demanded that Gadhafi forces evacuate.

Airstrikes overnight into Tuesday hit a military port in Tripoli, destroying equipment warehouses and trucks loaded with rocket launchers. Col. Abdel-Baset Ali, operations officer in the port, said the strikes caused millions of dollars in losses, but no human casualties.

But while the airstrikes can stop Gadhafi's troops from attacking rebel cities — in line with the U.N. mandate to protect civilians — the United States has so far been reluctant to go beyond that. The Libyan leader was a target of American air attacks in 1986.

U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates and others said the U.S. military's role will lessen in coming days as other countries take on more missions and the need declines for large-scale offensive action.

Two dozen more Tomahawk cruise missiles were launched from U.S. and British submarines, a defense official said earlier in the day. Locklear, the on-scene commander, didn't give details but confirmed that brought to 161 the number of Tomahawk strikes aimed at disabling Libyan command and control facilities, air defenses and other targets since the operation started Saturday.

Locklear said the additional strikes had expanded the area covered by the no-fly zone.

Asked if international forces were stepping up strikes on Gadhafi ground troops, Locklear said that as the "capability of the coalition" grows, it will be able to do more missions aimed at ground troops who are not complying with the U.N. resolution to protect those seeking Gadhafi's ouster.

___

Lucas reported from Zwitina, Libya. Associated Press writers Maggie Michael in Cairo; Robert Burns and Pauline Jelinek in Washington and David Rising in Berlin contributed to this report.

Dakle, Gadafijevi čauši napadaju mirne proteste, granatiraju gradove, narod u njima ostao bez hrane, skuplja kišnicu itd. Pobunjenici se bore protiv naoružane i mehanizovane kamarile mačevima i štapovima...

Dalje. Ko su uopšte ti pobunjenici? Ni Amerikanci nisu sigurni. Samo je jasno da oni žele da izgrade pravedno demokracko društvo:

Who are the Libyan rebels? U.S. tries to figure out

When a U.S. Air Force pilot ejected from his crashing F-15 Eagle fighter jet and landed in rebel-held eastern Libya overnight Tuesday, he soon found that he was in friendly hands.

"He was a very nice guy," Libyan businessman Ibrahim Ismail told Newsweek of the initially quite anxious American pilot. "He came to free the Libyan people." Rebel officials dispatched a doctor to attend to the pilot and presented him with a bouquet of flowers, according to Newsweek.

But the U.S. government, now engaged in a fourth day of air strikes against Libyan regime military targets, does not know very much about the rebels who now see it as a friendly ally in their fight to overthrow Muammar Gadhafi.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton held a 45-minute, closed-door meeting with Mahmoud Jibril, a leader of the newly formed Libyan opposition Interim National Council in a luxury Paris hotel earlier this month. But in a clear signal of America's wariness about all the unknowns, Clinton gave no public statement after their meeting and did not appear in photographs with the rebel leader. (By contrast, a week earlier French President Nicholas Sarkozy bestowed formal diplomatic recognition on the Council and was photographed shaking hands with its emissaries Jibril and Ali Essawi on the steps of the Elysee Palace.)



Middle East policy watchers note a glaring disconnect between the buoyant expectations of some rebel supporters that the international military coalition will provide direct air support for their armed struggle, and the insistence of U.S. military commanders that their mandate allows for no such thing.

The coalition mission doesn't include protecting forces engaged in combat against Libyan leader Muammar Gadhafi's forces, Gen. Carter Ham, the commander of U.S. Africa Command, told reporters Monday. His mission, Ham said, is narrowly confined to preventing Gadhafi forces from attacking civilians, getting Gadhafi's forces to pull back from rebel-held towns, and allowing civilians humanitarian access to food, water, and electricity/gas supplies, Ham said.

So who are the Libyan rebels with whom we now seem (for better or for worse) to be joined with in a shared fight against Gadhafi?

One view has it that the Libyan rebels are basically peaceful protesters who found their demonstrations against Gadhafi met with bullets and had no choice but to resort to violence.

"The protesters are nice, sincere people who want a better future for Libya," Human Rights Watch Emergencies Director Peter Bouckaert told South Africa's Business Day. "But their strength is also their weakness: they aren't hardened fighters, so no one knows what the end game will be."

"This is not really a civil war between two equal powers--it started as a peaceful protest movement and was met with bullets," Bouckaert continued. "Now you have a situation where you have a professional and heavily equipped army fighting a disorganized and inexperienced bunch of rebels who stand little chance against them."

Still, the rebels are largely unknown to the American government, despite initial tentative meetings such as Clinton's and some meetings held by U.S. Ambassador to Libya Gene Cretz with opposition representatives. (Cretz is now working out of the State Department, as the United States has withdrawn its diplomatic presence.) Last week, President Barack Obama appointed an American diplomat, Chris Stevens, to be the U.S. liaison to the Libyan opposition.

"We don't have the comfort level with the rebels," said the National Security Network's Joel Rubin, a former State Department official. "We certainly know some things about them, had meetings. It's not as if there's complete blindness. But I don't think at this stage the comfort level is there for that kind of close coordination."

But the Libyan rebels seem to have found western consultants who have offered advice on reassuring buzzwords the West would like to hear. On Tuesday, the Interim National Council issued just such a soothing statement from their rebel stronghold of Benghazi.

"The Interim National Council is committed to the ultimate goal of the revolution which is to build a democratic civil state, based on the rule of law, respect for human rights including ... equal rights and duties for all citizens, ... equality between men and women, " the Council said in their statement.

The Council also "reaffirms that Libya's foreign policy will be based on mutual respect and ... respect [for] international law and international humanitarian law," the group said.

(Photo, top: Libyan rebels on the road between Benghazi and Ajdabiyah: Suhaib Salem/Reuters. Photo, middle: France's President Nicolas Sarkozy shakes hands with Libyan Interim National Council emissaries Mahmoud Jibril (R) and Ali Essawi after a meeting at the Elysee Palace in Paris March 10, 2011: Gonzalo Fuentes/Reuters)

Dakle, nismo sigurni ko su niti šta hoće, ali tu smo da im se nađemo. Krstareći projektil ovde, lovac-bombarder onde i demokratija se nekako porodi.

S druge strane, u Jemenu predsednik koji je na vlasti skoro 32 godine (nepunu deceniju kraće od Gadafija) i čije su snage ubile 40 civila na demonstracijama upozorava da bi moglo doći do rata. Zapadni zaštitnici civila za sada ne uleću sa bombarederima jer je Ali Abdulah Saleh dobar drugar sa Amerima. U Vašingtonu kažu da se nadaju mirnom rešenju. Da vidimo dokle će to da ide i da li će ga pustiti niz vodu:

Power crumbling, Yemen leader warns of civil war

By AHMED AL-HAJ and LEE KEATH, Associated Press Ahmed Al-haj And Lee Keath, Associated Press – Tue Mar 22, 9:24 pm ET
SANAA, Yemen – Yemen's U.S.-backed president, his support crumbling among political allies and the army, warned that the country could slide into a "bloody" civil war Tuesday as the opposition rejected his offer to step down by the end of the year. Tens of thousands protested in the capital demanding his immediate ouster, emboldened by top military commanders who joined their cause.

Ali Abdullah Saleh's apparent determination to cling to power raised fears that Yemen could be pushed into even greater instability. In a potentially explosive split, rival factions of the military have deployed tanks in the capital Sanaa — with units commanded by Saleh's son protecting the president's palace, and units loyal to a top dissident commander protecting the protesters.

The defection on Monday of that commander, Maj. Gen. Ali Mohsen al-Ahmar, a powerful regime insider who commands the army's 1st Armored Division, has been seen by many as a major turning point toward a potentially rapid end for Saleh's nearly 32-year rule.

The question is whether the Yemeni chapter of the uprisings sweeping the Middle East will read more like Egypt — where the resignation of President Hosni Mubarak set the country on a relatively stable, if still uncertain, move toward democracy — or like Libya, which has seen brutal fighting between armed camps.

Already, clashes broke out late Monday between Saleh's Republican Guard and dissident army units in the far eastern corner of the country. On Tuesday, Republican Guard tanks surrounded a key air base in the western Red Sea coastal city of Hodeida after its commander — Col. Ahmed al-Sanhani, a member of Saleh's own clan — announced he was joining the opposition.

The turmoil raised alarm in Washington, which has heavily backed Saleh to wage a campaign against a major Yemen-based al-Qaida wing that plotted attacks in the United States.

U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates, on a trip to Russia, said Tuesday that "instability and diversion of attention" from dealing with al-Qaida is a "primary concern about the situation." He refused to weigh in on whether Saleh should step down.

After a month of street protests — led mainly by students and pro-democracy advocates — against his nearly 32-year rule, Saleh became dramatically more isolated after security forces opened fatally shot more than 40 demonstrators on Friday.

The killings set off an avalanche of defections by top figures in his ruling party, influential tribal leaders and, most damagingly, al-Ahmar and a string of other top generals.

In a meeting Tuesday with his still-loyalist military commanders, Saleh railed against the dissidents, calling them "weak" and saying they "dropped away like autumn leaves."

"Those who want to climb to power through a coup should know that things won't stabilize. The nation won't be stable, it will turn into a civil war, to a bloody war, so they should think carefully," he said.

At the same time, he issued a softer statement, saying he "sympathizes with the youth" and calling on protesters to enter a dialogue. He said he believed their movement could "renew the democratic energy" in the country."

Monday night, Saleh pledged in a meeting with senior officials, military commanders and tribal leaders that he would step down by the end of the year, according to a presidential spokesman, Ahmed al-Sufi. Saleh had earlier rejected such a proposal, making a more limited concession of promising not to run for re-election when his term ends in 2013.

But the opposition said the new offer was too little, too late.

"The president's statements are just another political maneuver," said chief opposition spokesman Mohammed al-Sabri. "What was acceptable yesterday is not acceptable for us today."

"There is only one option, that the president announces his resignation and hands over power. Only then can we meet with the president to agree on transferring power," he said.

In Washington, State Department spokesman Mark Toner said Saleh's resignation at year-end would be positive "if this is something that many people respond to and it meets their aspirations."

"What we're looking for is dialogue that leads to a peaceful solution," Toner told reporters.

Protesters massed by the tens of thousands Tuesday afternoon in the downtown Sanaa plaza they have dubbed "Taghyeer," or "Change" square. Crowds ululated, chanted and painted each other's faces in the red, white and black colors of the national flag. Conservative tribesmen bought their wives to the protest, and the women bought their children, all basking in a carnival atmosphere.

The wave of defections and resignations since Friday have included army commanders, ambassadors, members of Saleh's ruling party, lawmakers, provincial governors and some managers of the state-run media. With most pillars of his rule knocked away, Saleh's strongest card remains his family and the loyalist military units they command.

Throughout his rule, Saleh has stayed in power through manipulation and patronage. He has used money to keep the loyalty of powerful tribes, seeded the military with close family members and courted Islamic fundamentalists, using militants as pro-regime fighters against opponents.

Even while his hold on power in Sanaa seemed entrenched, the deeply impoverished nation has been crumbling around him for several years. A powerful secessionist movement has torn apart the south, which was once an independent nation. In the north, Shiite rebels rose up against his military. In many parts of the mountainous nation, which has little infrastructure, discontented tribes all but shook off his authority.

The defections, however, throw the protest movement into the thick of Yemen's deeply complicated politics. The new factions joining in are hardly a unified force.

Al-Ahmar is mistrusted by some. He had a complex relationship with Saleh, seen as both a key ally and a potential rival. He also has close ties to Yemen's Salafis, an ultraconservative Islamic movement that in some ways mirrors al-Qaida's ideology. Yemen's most influential Salafi, Sheik Abdul-Majid al-Zindani, already announced his support for the protesters.

Al-Ahmar is also unpopular in the south, where secessionists have largely backed the protests against Saleh. Al-Ahmar is a veteran of the 1994 civil war that saw Saleh's army suppress an attempt by southern Yemen to secede.

Some protesters expressed fears their movement, which has focused on establishing democratic rule, could be hijacked.

"There are worries, especially after some extremist Salafi and military elements joined," said Bushra al-Maqtari, a leading activist among the protesters. "But we are watchful ... We don't refuse anyone who supports the revolutionaries, even those once linked to the regime. But we are all in agreement that they don't have the right to speak in the name of the revolution."

Also joining the protesters have been top figures from Yemen's most powerful tribe, the Hashid, to which Saleh himself and al-Ahmar belong. Among them are the tribe's leader Sheik Sadeq al-Ahmar and his brothers — Hamid, an influential businessman who has long been a critic of the president, and Himyar, formerly the deputy parliament speaker.

Sheik Sadeq spoke to protesters in Change Square on Tuesday, trying to reassure them. "Don't be afraid or listen to rumors that say that the tribes or military will hijack the revolution," he said. "We are with you. We will support your demands. We will not be an alternative. Don't listen to rumors."

But the Hashid support also raised worries the tribe is seeking to maintain its status by backing Ali Mohsen al-Ahmar as a successor to Saleh.

A top American concern is that al-Qaida or other Islamic militants could fill any power vacuum. Several hundred al-Qaida militants are believed to be operating in the country, taking refuge in remote areas.

Late Tuesday, Yemen's Interior Ministry said in a statement that 12 al-Qaida fighters had been killed in clashes with the army in the town of Lawder in the southern province of Abyan.

The country has a strong Islamic radical movement, not directly belonging to al-Qaida, including thousands of veterans of "jihad" in other countries.

Ironically, those radicals could also be a card in Saleh's hand. In the south in particular, his regime has used militants to put down seccessionists.

For the past two days, armed Islamic militants have been on a rampage in the southern city of Aden, breaking into nightclubs, throwing out patrons and setting fire to buildings. They spraypainted graffiti on buildings around the city, reading "The people want the rule of God."

[Meho Krljic]

Nego, za promenu jedan izbalansiran i inteligentan tekst iz Tajma (doduše sa Tajmovog bloga....):


The Libya Dilemma: Should the Coalition Provide Air Support for a Rebel Offensive?

President Barack Obama seems determined to relinquish the hot potato of U.S. leadership over the Libya air war as quickly as possible, although disputes within NATO have prevented the Alliance stepping up to take charge of a mission whose strategic objectives remain unclear.  Having effectively prevented Colonel Gaddafi from sending armored columns to attack rebel-held cities, the question that increasingly faces nations waging a campaigne whose declared aim is simply to protect Libya's civilian population is: What are the coalition's responsibilities when it is rebel forces who are on the attack? Clearly, the rebels themselves are expecting the sort of close air support that the NATO countries provide to their own troops in Afghanistan and other conflicts. But enabling a rebel offensive against towns held by Gaddafi's contravenes the spirit of the U.N. Security Council resolution that enabled the operation, whose stated goal is to stop the fighting and enable a negotiated political settlement.

The question of how far the coalition goes in supporting a rebel offensive cuts to some of the basic principles involved in the Libya intervention.

One of the key reasons cited by Western governments for intervening in Libya was the damaging "demonstration effect" that would result if Colonel Gaddafi survived in power by ruthlessly crushing the rebellion. Autocrats everywhere would contrast his fate with that of President Hosni Mubarak, who was ousted after refraining from ordering a bloodbath, and conclude that fighting their way out of a political crisis was the best option. So, best to make an example of  Gaddafi -- rather than on allies like Yemen's President Ali Saleh or the Saudis orchestrating a violent crackdown in Bahrain, whose regimes are far more important to U.S. strategic interests. And, of course, once the President of the United States has declared unambiguously that Gaddafi must go, his survival in power is viewed by many in Washington as an unacceptable erosion of U.S. credibility.

Charges of  double standards aside, there's a deeper problem with the "demonstration effect"  logic: It fails to reckon with the "demonstration effect" of intervening to realize the goals of an armed rebellion about which precious little is known.

Kosovo is often cited as an example of a successful humanitarian intervention that saved many lives by ending a campaign of "ethnic cleansing" by Serb forces. But what's worth remembering is that the Serb campaign in Kosovo was a brutal retaliation for the growing insurgency of the Kosovo Liberation Army, a hardline separatist group that systematically killed Serbian policemen, administrators and civilians in what was legally a province of Serbia despite its ethnic-Albanian majority. The KLA were not necessarily nice guys. They had been on the State Dept. list of terrorist organizations until 1998 because of their attacks on civilians. The organization was believed to rely on criminal activity for its funding -- indeed, a European Union investigation last December accused the movement's leader,  current Kosovo president Hashem Thaci, of heading a crime syndicate. (Thaci and his government furiously reject that charge.)  After the war, a number of the group's commanders were also convicted of war crimes by the Hague Tribunal. Kosovo remains partitioned between a small Serbian enclave in the north and the ethnic Albanian remainder, and despite the best efforts of the NATO countries, its declaration of independence has been recognized by less than half of U.N. member states.

So, while ostensibly waged to simply protect a civilian population under threat, the Kosovo war was also a great success story for a small hardcore group that  had provoked the Serbs into launching a campaign of retribution so ugly and vicious that  it drew in NATO to accomplish what the KLA itself had been unable to accomplish -- driving the Serbs out of their rebellious province of Kosovo.

Libya's rebellion, of course, has nothing in common with the KLA; there was no small group of conspirators mounting increasingly damaging attacks over a two-year period; instead a relatively spontaneous protest movement for democratic rights was greeted with a brutal crackdown by Gaddafi, prompting mass defections from the army in Benghazi and other eastern cities in what quickly became a popular armed rebellion.

Still, the danger of a reverse demonstration effect is obvious: Intervening to stop Gaddafi from cracking down on the rebellion may or may not deter other despots from following suit; but providing the air cover that allows the rebellion to triumph, as the rebels expect the West to do,  could also encourage a belief among rebels elsewhere that if they take up arms against a tyrant, NATO will fly to their rescue.

Already, the situation on the ground is highlighting the dilemma in the Western intervention: Air strikes have stopped Gaddafi's march on Benghazi, but fighting continues at close quarters there and in other cities. And a rebel drive to recapture Ajdabiya on Monday on the back of the bombing campaign appeared to flounder under fire from regime tanks guarding the northern entrances to the city. Many of the rebel fighters on the ground made clear they were expecting Western warplanes to open the way to Ajdabiya and beyond. That's not a role with which U.S. commanders are comfortable.

to be viewing the NATO planes as the close air support of their own infantry campaign -- a role that the operation's commanders appear reluctant to embrace.

The Washington Post reports:

From a point about five miles from the northern entrance to Ajdabiya, rebels jumped into dozens of vehicles and made a massive push toward the city Monday when they heard jets in the air and the sounds of bombardment. But after about half a mile, the rebels came under fire from loyalist tank and mortar shelling and promptly turned back.

Afterward, rebel commanders said they plan to wait for more allied airstrikes against Gaddafi's forces before pushing forward again.

But in Stuttgart, Germany, the commander of coalition forces involved in the Libya campaign, U.S. Army Gen. Carter F. Ham, said the allied mission was to "protect civilians from attack by the regime ground forces" and not to provide close air support for the rebels or "support opposition forces if they engage in offensive operations."

But it appears unlikely, right now, that the rebels can prevail in offensive operations without considerable foreign air support. And Western powers appear reluctant to intervene to enable a decisive military victory by  a rebel force about whose nature and intentions they know precious little. If the regime were, in fact, to suddenly lose control of the capital, the fact that so many people have been armed and with so little discipline or organizational structure threatens to create the sort of chaos that would require the insertion of peacekeeping forces -- a potentially perilous mission that none of the Western powers is willing to contemplate.

President Obama insists that the burden of responsibility for and leadership of the mission must be shared between the U.S. and its allies. First, however, they may need to agree on a coherent strategy beyond simply stopping Gaddafi from butchering civilians.

[Albedo 0]

ejsbuk - Srpska grupa podrške pukovniku udarna vest na libijskoj TV
Građani Srbije uz Gadafija
Na popularnoj društvenoj internet stranici Fejsbuk osnovana je grupa za podršku Moameru el Gadafiju iz Srbije (Support for Muammar al Gaddafi from the people of Serbia), kojoj se za samo četiri dana priključilo 35.211 ljudi, a taj broj iz minuta u minut raste. Ogromna podrška naroda Srbije, prvenstveno preko Fejsbuka, bila je preksinoć udarna vest na libijskoj televiziji.
Srbi su osnovali i grupu ,,Stop NATO agresiji na Libiju" (Stop NATO Aggression on Libya), koja je stekla manju popularnost i broji 1.389 članova.
Inače, pravi internet rat vodi se na Fejsbuku otkako su koalicione snage počele da bombarduju Libiju. Članovi grupa koje podržavaju napade na tu severnoafričku zemlju sve češće pozivaju administratore Fejsbuka da ugase sve grupe koje podržavaju pukovnika Gadafija, nazivajući ga tiraninom. Njihova pažnja usmerena je prvenstveno na grupu ,,Support for Muammar al Gaddafi from the people of Serbia", jer je za kratko vreme stekla ogromnu popularnost.
Tako toj grupi preti potencijalno gašenje, jer ima ljudi koji ostavljaju, između ostalog, neprimerene komentare koji obiluju rasnom, verskom i nacionalnom mržnjom, kao i polnom diskriminacijom.

[Tex Murphy]

Je! Ponosan sam što sam član te grupe!

[Meho Krljic]

Skaj Njuz veli da ima materijalne dokaze o masakru koga su izvršile Gadafijeve snage u gradu Zavija:

Evidence Of Massacre By Gaddafi Forces

The Gaddafi regime continues to deny any massacre took place in the Libyan town of Zawiyah.


Instead the government spokesman in Tripoli has asked Britain to produce "evidence" of any civilians dying at the hands of Gaddafi forces there.

Well, Dr Moussa Ibrahim, Sky News has that evidence. A Sky News team of three was trapped in Zawiyah as Gaddafi unleashed the might of his toughest brigade on the town - for days and days.

We saw civilians battling for their lives and we saw far too many of them dying. We saw the regime's soldiers firing on ambulances (including one we were travelling in).

We saw the colonel's men shelling residential apartments and firing so close to the main hospital that the windows rattled and the nurses were barricading the windows. We saw wounded children and women who had been shot in the head.


We were inside the town as Gaddafi's military attempted to strangle it to death, encircling it with tanks and other military vehicles and cutting off the internet, the mobile phone network and eventually power and water supplies.

The British Ministry of Defence's strategic communications officer, Major-General John Lorimer, has used an aerial photograph of the town's mosque, in Martyrs Square where most of the battle took place, to demonstrate how the landscape of this town changed.

One photograph showed the town with its mosque intact, the other with the mosque destroyed, its dome collapsed.

"This shows just what Gaddafi is capable of," said Major-General Lorimer. Not even a sacred holy place was considered off-limits to Col Gaddafi's men.

We cowered in a storeroom in the mosque with half a dozen other civilians as we witnessed the bombing and constant fighting outside.

My colleagues, Sky's deputy foreign editor Tim Miller and cameraman Martin Smith, and I were there from Friday, March 4 until Sunday, March 6.

We moved from the main hospital to the mosque to the square a number of times whenever the firing and fighting died down. With the help of people who put their lives at risk for us, we somehow managed to smuggle the pictures out.

We were told over and over again how important it was for us to deliver the pictures and show what had happened.


"They will try to stop you broadcasting these pictures," they told us. "They will lie and deny it happened."

From the government-controlled hotel which houses most of the Western journalists, they did just that. And they are still saying that.

Dr Ibrahim told my colleague Lisa Holland in Tripoli that the military would never fire upon its own people because they are "Libyan children" and the soldiers could not even if they wanted to.

Well, they did.

Tim, Martin and I were there when one wounded soldier from the Kharmis brigade was brought in with both his ankles blown away. He had ID which showed his brigade unit and his nationality. He was Libyan and he was a tank commander.

He was also conscious and able to answer my questions. I asked how many military vehicles he had come into the town with. He said 25 to 30.

He went onto say - as his wounds were being tended to - that he never expected to be treated so humanely.

"We were told you were all al Qaeda terrorists," he said. "But you are good people."

Na linku imate i embedovan desetominutni video na kome se vidi... dosta toga. (Mada, da li se baš vidi "masakr"... to je pitanje.)

[SIMERIJANAC]

Fotka oborenog  F-15E Eagle.
Amerikanci kažu da je pao zbog kvara.
Kvar se pojavio u vidu rupa na avionu.

[varvarin]

To je od vazduha iznad mora, ako letiš nisko...  Ima puno soli.

[Melkor]

Ode 10 minuta mog zivota na onaj video, a video sam vise pokojnih vladinih vojnika nego civila (koji se onako goloruki dobro naunistavase tenkova - da su nasi znali da to moze kad su tenkovi izasli u Beogradu...).

Inace, u onoj bolnici rodjena je moja sestra, mislim, i to je bila najbolja bolnica u Libiji. Nasi je izgradili i opremili

[Meho Krljic]

Da, moram da каžem da se tu "masakr" baš ne vidi. Vide se povređeni ljudi i uništena vozila, ali...

[scallop]

Ma, jok. Vidi se. Samo treba da se potrudimo.

[Джон Рейнольдс]

Videće se na eventualnom suđenju Gadafiju.

[SIMERIJANAC]

Economic Hitmen

[mac]

Čovek je objasnio.

[SIMERIJANAC]

Libijski Otporaši kivni na srpske hakere.

Gadafija čuvaju srpski hakeri

Više od 50.000 internet korisnika iz Srbije već danima ugrožava borbu libijske opozicije protiv režima Muamera el Gadafija, tvrdi opozicioni Libijski omladinski pokret.


Nedavno je u Beogradu održan i protest podrške Gadafiju



Internet korisnici iz Srbije aktivnim pružaju podršku Gadafiju i njegovom režimu i vode sajber rat protiv snaga koje se bore protiv Gadafija.

"Korisnici iz Srbije pokrenuli su progadafijevski pokret na Facebooku,Twitteru, MySpaceu, YouTubu i drugim društvenim mrežama i mi, posle konsultacija sa administratorima tih mreža, procenjujemo da je više od 50.000 Internet korisnika iz Srbije aktivno uključeno u pružanje podrške Gadafiju", navedeno je u saopštenju te organizacije dostavljenom Tanjugu.

Mediji poklanjaju veliku pažnju ovim aktivnostima koje su privukle Gadafijeve pristalice iz drugih zemalja, a libijska državna televizija redovno emituje ono što pišu Gadafijeve pristalice iz Srbije, kako bi pokazala da on i dalje ima podršku u drugim zemljama, navodi libijski pokret.

Pored toga, veliki broj korisnika iz Srbije vodi rat na Internetu protiv antigadafijevih grupa i veb sajtova i oni hakuju, spemuju ili obaraju veb sajtove povezane sa snagama koje se bore protiv Gadafija, NATO, SAD, Francuskom, Velikom Britanijom, istaknuto je u saopštenju.

Libijski omladinski pokret primećuje da za tako malu zemlju poput Srbije, sa relativno skromnim brojem Internet korisnika, organizovanje više od 50.000 aktivnih Gadafijevih pristalica koji zajedno deluju na Internetu predstavlja grandiozni poduhvat i zahteva veliku količinu rada, predanosti i novca.

"Mi sumnjamo da iza ovog progadafijevog pokreta stoje moćne političke organizacije i političke partije i apelujemo na međunarodnu zajednicu da hitno nešto preduzme tim povodom", zakljucio je Libijski omladinski pokret.

 

Mondo

[lilit]

Srbija! 

[Джон Рейнольдс]

Jbg, ovakve akcije će me naterati da se i ja registrujem na taj usrani FB.

[SIMERIJANAC]

[lilit]

Jbg, ovakve akcije će me naterati da se i ja registrujem na taj usrani FB.

da znaš da sam i ja slično razmišljala.
ali fejs je zlo veće od amera, ipak.

[SIMERIJANAC]

[Meho Krljic]

Srbi stvarno ne razmišljaju ni sekunda pre nego što delaju. Mislim, sve u redu, ali svrstavati se uz Gadafija????

[Albedo 0]

Krip, reaguj

[lilit]

Srbi stvarno ne razmišljaju ni sekunda pre nego što delaju. Mislim, sve u redu, ali svrstavati se uz Gadafija????

Odnosno:

Ovo je priča o tome kako ce NATO poslati jos par starih tomahavka put Srbije... cisto kolateralno...a onda ce da dovuku Jamie Shea iz mirovine da objasni kako je u pitanju kompjuterska greska, najverovatnije prouzrokovana hakerskim delatnostima neidentifikovanih gadafoljuba. 
Ali mi Srbi za to ne marimo! 

[Albedo 0]

pa dobro, nisu oni predstavnici države, država je prilično mirna i tu nema frke, a svaki građanin ima pravo da izrazi sopstveni stav, jer u protivnom se oni opravdano bune.

[lilit]

ovaj albedo uvek devojci sreću kvari. 

[Albedo 0]

Albedo je stari party-pooper

[Джон Рейнольдс]

Srbi stvarno ne razmišljaju ni sekunda pre nego što delaju. Mislim, sve u redu, ali svrstavati se uz Gadafija????

Protiv Imperije Zla, a uz čoveka koji, kakav god bio, nama nikad ništa nije skrivio - štaviše, dobijali smo od njega podršku još u vreme SFRJ i svaki put kasnije; čak je napravio i mini skandal s Pacolijem? Zašto da ne.

[scallop]

Srbi stvarno ne razmišljaju ni sekunda pre nego što delaju. Mislim, sve u redu, ali svrstavati se uz Gadafija????

I u SAD više političara smatra da je sve isilovano.

[Meho Krljic]

pa dobro, nisu oni predstavnici države, država je prilično mirna i tu nema frke, a svaki građanin ima pravo da izrazi sopstveni stav, jer u protivnom se oni opravdano bune.

Pa, ja ovde i ne kritikujem državu nego narod, zapravo njegove pojedince koji stvarno ne umeju da nađu svoje mesto u koordinatnom sistemu konfuzije.

Srbi stvarno ne razmišljaju ni sekunda pre nego što delaju. Mislim, sve u redu, ali svrstavati se uz Gadafija????

Protiv Imperije Zla, a uz čoveka koji, kakav god bio, nama nikad ništa nije skrivio - štaviše, dobijali smo od njega podršku još u vreme SFRJ i svaki put kasnije; čak je napravio i mini skandal s Pacolijem? Zašto da ne.

Pa zato što je to reaktivni i emotivni pristup politici. Naravno, građani na njega imaju puno pravo ali to ne znači da treba da ga podstičemo.

Srbi stvarno ne razmišljaju ni sekunda pre nego što delaju. Mislim, sve u redu, ali svrstavati se uz Gadafija????

I u SAD više političara smatra da je sve isilovano.

Ako sad krenemo o silovanjima, bićemo ovde do jutra...

[scallop]

Ako sad krenemo o silovanjima, bićemo ovde do jutra...

Imaš nešto zgodno u vidu?

[Albedo 0]

Pa, ja ovde i ne kritikujem državu nego narod, zapravo njegove pojedince koji stvarno ne umeju da nađu svoje mesto u koordinatnom sistemu konfuzije.

Pa što bi kritikovao narod?

Sasvim je jasno da je Libiji svanulo nakon dekolonizacije i Gadafi je to učinio solino.

Libija ima duplo veći GDP od Srbije, da sad presele sve Srbe iz Srbije u Libiju imali bi istu platu kao u Srbiji

Možeš reći ljudska prava ovo ono, ne postoje ta ljudska prava ni u Srbiji ili Americi.

Pa 1990. su tenkovima ugušili pobunu u Los Anđelesu.

[Meho Krljic]

Pa ja ni ne kažem da treba da podržavamo Ameriku. Ali, mislim, Gadafi.

[lilit]

Meho, dosta tog PC-a! Bolje pogledaj kako moj stari idol drzi banku. Genije. I jos je debelo placen za to.

Nigel Farage: EU has no legitimacy or consent to take military action

[lilit]

A za NČ bih se se udala sutra, samo kad bi moglo. 
Što volim kad mi ovako počne jutro:
A Changing Arab World - Noam Chomsky Democracy now 17.02.2011

[varvarin]

http://www.politika.rs/rubrike/Rat-u-Libiji/Srpski-hakeri-pomazu-Gadafiju.lt.html

,,Mi sumnjamo da iza ovog progadafijevog pokreta stoje moćne političke organizacije i političke partije i apelujemo na međunarodnu zajednicu da hitno nešto preduzme tim povodom", zakljucio je Libijski omladinski pokret.

Plačipičke i denuncijanti. Ista škola ko i neki naši...

[lilit]

Ovo je još bolje
Noam Chomsky Warns Against U.S./U.K. Intervention In Libya 1/2

Noam Chomsky Warns Against U.S./U.K. Intervention In Libya 2/2

Evo ga i stari lisac drzi liturgiju na radiju - DOSADNO, osim dela gde proziva George W. Obamu sa "Who do you think you are?!"

Farrakhan warns, advises Obama on Libya

[scallop]

Moćni Srbi stoje iza ovih nepoznatih tipova.

[lilit]

Moćni i velikih novčanika. 

[varvarin]

Dakle, otišao na FB po prvi put, zbog Libije:  Pa tamo je zabava!!