Arapske revolucije

[SIMERIJANAC]

The real Mercenaries in Benghazi Libya.... Peaceful Protesters ha!!!!!! Part 1

[lilit]

Јбт, дошло ми је да се бацим с терасе

А да ли си размишљала да на комшију примениш метод из оне поучне приче Артура Кларка о Ерминтруди палац (Sirius 9) - оне млађе упућујем на СФ библиографију...

Kad već pomenu Sirius, zašto je traženo od SF tima da skine skenirane brojeve s neta?
Mislim, jasno mi je koji razlog bi mogao da figurira, ali mi je sumanut.

[scallop]

Ko je tako nešto tražio? Jel' to bilo juče?

[lilit]

Navodno tražio HP. Ne znam detalje.

[Mica Milovanovic]

Kako misliš, zašto je traženo? Pa kako neko može da stavlja nečije radove na net, a da ne pita? Ti su tekstovi pod kopirajtom. Svako može da ih tuži zbog toga, ako želi.

[lilit]

Ma razumem, naravno, ali opet sam happy što je to odrađeno.
Plus, nadam se i da "tražioci" nikad nisu s neta skinuli bilo šta što je pod kopirajtom.

[Mica Milovanovic]

To nema nikakve veze sa legitimnošću zahteva.

Ja takođe volim da me neko pita pre nego što bilo šta moje stavi na internet.
Svima dozvolim, ali volim da me pitaju.

[lilit]

To nema nikakve veze sa legitimnošću zahteva

Nema, al dozvolićeš da je malo licemerno. Meni bar.  

[Mica Milovanovic]

Ne bih se složio.

[scallop]

Ne bih se složio.

A što bi se nesložio, ako te već niko ne pita? HP nije vlasnik nikakvih prava na Sirius. Mene šetaju po netu kol'ko 'oćeš i niko me nije pitao, osim Libartes-a. S kim da se tužim sa ovakvim pravosuđem? Koga ugrožavaju oni koji dižu prastara palp izdanja? Prodavce na pijaci?

[Mica Milovanovic]

Pa, tu ima i njegovih priča, uvodnika, i slično, na primer.

Hoćeš da mi kažeš da bi bilo u redu da neko stavi Grbovnik na net i da te ništa ne pita? Da bi to pozdravio.

A što se tiče pravosuđa, nisam baš siguran da ne bi bilo moguće da se neko tuži zbog kršenja autorskih prava i da se relativno brzo presuda donese.

[Tex Murphy]

Pa ovo je vrlo interesantno pitanje. Može li Hrvoje, koji je bio urednik samo jednog dijela brojeva, da traži da se skinu SVI brojevi, a ne samo oni koje je on uređivao? I, na kraju krajeva, u tim brojevima koje je uređivao, ima li pravo da traži da se skinu samo njegovi uvodnici ili bilo koji tekst? Sirius je valjda izdavao Vjesnik, jel' to čudo postoji još uvijek?

[scallop]

Мехо, немам ништа против да причамо о "Грбовник"-у. Неко је тако турио и новелу "Дошљак са планете лудака" на Нет. Једва сам сазнао. Знам ко је једини то имао. Шта мислиш колико би суђење трајало? Ево, моја жена две деценије покушава да добије свој стан у кући коју је њен деда сазидао и сви, суд, адвокати, па и фамилија жене која ни не живи у том стану годинама, чекају да она умре, па ћемо се онда судити са потомцима из ко зна ког колена. Немој ми помињати Хрвоја и његове тлапње. Данас се не зна ни ко је правни наследник Вечерњег листа. Која би будала покренула судски поступак? Немој плашити људе који су направили - добро дело.

[Melkor]

Мехо,

[Melkor]

Adm Mike Mullen told a US Congress committee Col Gaddafi's troops still had 10 times the rebels' firepower.

At the same hearing, Defence Secretary Robert Gates reiterated the US would put no "boots on the ground" in Libya.

Rebels and pro-Gaddafi forces appear to have reached a stalemate in their fight for control of the country.

In recent days, rebels have been urging international forces to conduct more air strikes.

Adm Mullen told the House of Representatives armed forces committee that bad weather had stopped them from identifying targets over the past three or four days.

"[The weather] has more than anything else reduced the impact... reduced the effectiveness, and has allowed the regime forces to move back to the east," the AFP news agency quoted him as saying.

Despite the weather, he said the air strikes since the beginning of the operation had wiped out between 20% and 25% of Col Gaddafi's forces.

"We have actually fairly seriously degraded his military capabilities. That does not mean he's about to break, from a military standpoint, because that's not the case," he said.

[Albedo 0]

Gadafi je prizvao nevrijeme!

[Meho Krljic]

Libyan opposition sets conditions for cease-fire

By BEN HUBBARD and RYAN LUCAS, Associated Press Ben Hubbard And Ryan Lucas, Associated Press – 44 mins ago
BENGHAZI, Libya – Libya's rebels will agree to a cease-fire if Moammar Gadhafi pulls his military forces out of cities and allows peaceful protests against his regime, an opposition leader said Friday.

Mustafa Abdul-Jalil, head of the opposition's interim governing council based in Benghazi, spoke during a joint press conference with U.N. envoy Abdelilah Al-Khatib. Al-Khatib is visiting the rebels' de facto stronghold of Benghazi in hopes of reaching a political solution to the crisis embroiling the North African nation.

Abdul-Jalil said the rebels' condition for a cease-fire is "that the Gadhafi brigades and forces withdraw from inside and outside Libyan cities to give freedom to the Libyan people to choose and the world will see that they will choose freedom."

The U.N. resolution that authorized international airstrikes against Libya called for Gadhafi and the rebels to end hostilities. Gadhafi announced a cease-fire immediately but has shown no sign of heeding it. His forces continue to attack rebels in the east, where the opposition in strongest, and have besieged the only major rebel-held city in the west, Misrata.

Abdul-Jalil said the regime must withdraw its forces and lift all sieges.

He stressed the ultimate goal was Gadhafi's ouster.

"Our aim is to liberate and have sovereignty over all of Libya with its capital in Tripoli," he said.

The U.N. said Al-Khatib, arrived Thursday in Tripoli.

Forces loyal to Libya's leader of nearly 42 years spent much of this week pushing the rebels back about 100 miles (160 kilometers) along the coast, and the opposition was trying to regroup. The rebels had mortars Friday, weapons they previously appeared to have lacked, and on Thursday night they drove in a convoy with at least eight rocket launchers — more artillery than usual.

The rebels also appeared to have more communication equipment such as radios and satellite phones, and were working in more organized units, in which military defectors were each leading six or seven volunteers.

The rebels' losses this week, and others before airstrikes began March 19, underlined that their equipment, training and organization were far inferior to those of Gadhafi's forces. The recent changes appear to be an attempt to correct, or at least ease, the imbalance.

A Libyan opposition official said rebels will be able to buy more arms thanks to an oil deal they reached with the tiny Arab nation of Qatar.

Ali Tarhouni, who handles finances for the opposition's National Transitional Council, said Qatar has agreed to market oil currently in storage in rebel-controlled areas of southeastern Libya.

Tarhouni didn't say when the deal was signed or when oil shipments will begin. He said one sticking point is how to truck the oil out of the country.

Tarhouni said money from oil sales will be put into an escrow account the opposition will use to pay for weapons, food, medicine, fuel and other needs.

It was unclear where the front line was Friday. Rebels were holding journalists back at the western gate of Ajdabiya, far from the fighting.

Thursday the opposition had moved into Brega, about 50 miles (80 kilometers) east of Ajdabiya, before Gadhafi's forces pushed them out.

Gadhafi's greatest losses this week were not military but political. Two members of his inner circle, including his foreign minister, abandoned him Wednesday and Thursday, setting off speculation about other officials who may be next. The defections could sway people who have stuck with Gadhafi despite the uprising that began Feb. 15 and the international airstrikes aimed at keeping the autocrat from attacking his own people.

Libyan state TV aired a phone interview with intelligence chief Bouzeid Dorda to knock down rumors that he also left Gadhafi.

"I am in Libya and will remain here steadfast in the same camp of the revolution despite everything," Dorda said. "I never thought to cross the borders or violate commitment to the people, the revolution and the leader."

Gadhafi struck a defiant stance in a statement Thursday, saying he's not the one who should go — it's the Western leaders who attacking his military with airstrikes who should resign immediately. Gadhafi's message was undercut by its delivery — a scroll across the bottom of state TV as he remained out of sight.

The White House said the strongman's inner circle was clearly crumbling with the loss of Foreign Minister Moussa Koussa, who flew from Tunisia to England on Wednesday. Koussa is privy to all the inner workings of the regime, so his departure could open the door for some hard intelligence, though Britain refused to offer him immunity from prosecution.

Ali Abdessalam Treki, a former foreign minister and U.N. General Assembly president, announced his departure on several opposition websites the next day, saying "It is our nation's right to live in freedom and democracy and enjoy a good life."

Gadhafi accused the leaders of the countries attacking his forces of being "affected by power madness."

"The solution for this problem is that they resign immediately and their peoples find alternatives to them," the Libya state news agency quoted him as saying.

His government's forces have regained momentum on the rapidly moving front line of the battle with opposition forces, retaking the town of Brega after pushing the rebels miles back toward the territory they hold in eastern Libya.

The rebels said they were undaunted, taking heart from the departures in Gadhafi's inner circle.

"We believe that the regime is crumbling from within," opposition spokesman Mustafa Gheriani said in Benghazi, the rebels' de facto capital.

Libyan officials, who initially denied Koussa's defection, said he had resigned because he was sick with diabetes and high blood pressure. Government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim said Koussa was given permission to go to Tunisia, but the regime was surprised to learn he had flown to London.

"I talked to many people and this is not a happy piece of news, but people are saying, 'So what? If someone wants to step down that's his decision,'" Ibrahim said.

Nations behind the campaign of international airstrikes that have hobbled Libya's military hailed Koussa's resignation as a sign of weakness in Gadhafi's reign. They're hoping for nonmilitary solution, in part because the rebels have been seriously outgunned.

The U.S. has ruled out using ground troops in Libya but it is considering providing arms to the rebels.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates, however, told Congress on Thursday that the U.S. still knows little about the rebels, and that if anyone arms and trains them it should be some other country.

Asked by a lawmaker whether U.S. involvement might inevitably mean "boots on the ground" in Libya, Gates replied, "Not as long as I am in this job."

NATO is among those saying a new U.N. resolution would be required to arm rebels, though Britain and the U.S. disagree. Several world leaders oppose arming rebels, including Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who said in London that it could "create an environment which could be conducive to terrorism."

___

Lucas reported from Ajdabiya, Libya. Hadeel Al-Shalchi in Tripoli and Maggie Michael in Cairo contributed to this report.

U našem slučaju su albanski separatisti barem samo hteli kontrolu nad Kosovom, ovi libijski ustanici hoće da kontrolišu celu zemlju. 

[mac]

Voleo bih da je interesovanje ljudi za američke dokumente na Wikileaksu bilo istog intenziteta kao što je interesovanje za američku vojnu intervenciju u Libiji. Meni su ti dokumenti veća senzacija nego ovaj "deliverance incident".

[varvarin]

Večerašnje vesti:
NATO pozvao pobunjenike da prilikom napada na vladine snage... ne napadaju civile.  

[Meho Krljic]

Ups:

UN Workers 'Beheaded' In Afghan Koran Protest

UN workers were among as many as 20 people reportedly killed in northern Afghanistan after a Koran burning protest turned violent.

Demonstrators stormed their compound in the city of Mazar-i-Sharif, opening fire on guards and setting fires.

They had gathered in a mass protest following reports that an American pastor had recently set a copy of the Muslim holy book ablaze in Florida.

Police said the dead included three foreign members of the UN, five Nepalese United Nations guards and three Afghan protesters. Two are said to have been beheaded.

UN officials have been reported saying as many as 20 have died.

Other reports said several hundred demonstrators were peacefully protesting against the Koran burning when the violence broke out.

Afghanistan had earlier condemned the "disrespectful and abhorrent" burning of the Koran by evangelical preacher Pastor Wayne Sapp in a Florida church on March 21, calling it an effort to incite tension between religions.

It was carried out under the supervision of Terry Jones, who planned to burn a pile of the holy books last year to mark the anniversary of the 2001 terrorist attacks in New York.

He aborted the move under pressure from world leaders including the US president, who has strongly criticised the latest violence.

The pastor described Friday's incident as "tragic and criminal". "The time has come to hold Islam accountable," he said.

Mislim, ovo nit su Arapi nit su revolucije, ali ajde, ima neke tematske veze. Pa vi posle pričajte o paljenju Kurana...

[Meho Krljic]

Naravno, neki elementi prethodne vesti su bili... malo preterani:

UN Staff Killed In Afghan Koran Protest

The United Nations has condemned an attack on a compound in Afghanistan that has left at least 12 people dead including seven UN staff. Skip related content


Protesters stormed the compound in the northern city of Mazar-i-Sharif, grabbing weapons from guards and opening fire.

They had gathered following reports an American pastor in Florida had set a copy of the Koran on fire.

Initial reports said up to 20 UN workers had been killed. Two people are said to have been beheaded.

As well as condemning the violence members of the UN Security Council called on the Afghan government to bring those responsible to justice.

An Afghan official said police had arrested the suspected mastermind behind the attack. He was one of more than 20 detained by officers.

One of the victims was Lt Col Siri Skare, a 53-year-old female pilot from Norway. A 33-year-old Swede and four UN guards from Nepal were among the others.

The nationality of the seventh UN worker to die has not been released, although he or she is not thought to be British.

Several hundred people were holding a peaceful demonstration against the Koran burning when the violence broke out.

Afghanistan had earlier condemned the "disrespectful and abhorrent" burning of the Muslim holy book by evangelical preacher Pastor Wayne Sapp in a Florida church on March 21.

It was carried out under the supervision of controversial pastor Terry Jones, who was barred from entering the UK in February after organising a similar stunt last year

Mr Jones planned to burn a pile of the holy books to mark the anniversary of the 2001 terrorist attacks in New York, but aborted the move under pressure from world leaders including US president Barack Obama.

Speaking to Sky News, the pastor attempted to defend the burning of the Koran and launched another attack on Islam. He described Friday's deaths as "tragic and criminal".

President Obama condemned the killings and called for restraint on both sides. UN secretary-general Ban Ki-moon also denounced the attacks, calling them "outrageous and cowardly".

UK Foreign Secretary William Hague said: "I call upon the Afghan government to investigate this incident and bring the perpetrators to justice."

[Melkor]

Do juce smo pratili svaki predjeni kilometar u Libiji, svaku izjavu u Siriji i Jemenu... Danas, Libija je 5. u vestima, nema minute by minute update-a... hmmm.

[Lord Kufer]

Ovo je početak krstaškog rata. Nije teško isprovocirati one budale...

[Truba]

Do juce smo pratili svaki predjeni kilometar u Libiji, svaku izjavu u Siriji i Jemenu... Danas, Libija je 5. u vestima, nema minute by minute update-a... hmmm.

očito gadafi vodi
a ima i ona da je sve vijest 3 dana

[Lord Kufer]

NATO je danas bombardovao ove druge...

[Truba]

očito se neko dobro zajebo misleći da će gadafi odmah pasti

[Lord Kufer]

Pošto ovi pobunjenici traže bolje uslove života i rada, teško da će im pokvareni zapadnjaci pomoći. Mislim da su ih prosto navukli a sad ima da izginu... kao heroji

[scallop]

Ma, opekli su se kad su slali oružje u Afganistan pre kusur godina, pa dobili Al-Kaidu. Onako zamotane teško ih je razlikovati, ne vidi im se čelo i šta piše na njemu.

[Lord Kufer]

Što jes - jes! Tačno se zna ko je Gadafi

[Meho Krljic]

Ovo smo već viđali kod nas:

Libya: Rebels 'Die In Western Air Strike'

Libya's rebel force has claimed 13 of their fighters and seven civilians were accidentally killed in a coalition air strike near Brega in the east of the country.

And one of the rebels' spokesmen said civilians may have died in a separate air raid that could have been carried out by their planes outside the same town.

Brega is one of a string of oil towns along the coast that have been won and lost by the opposition in recent weeks.

After coalition airstrikes began on March 19, the rebels raced forward to recapture the towns of Ajdabiyah, Brega and Ras Lanuf.

But instead of advancing towards Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's home town of Sirte and the capital Tripoli, the rag-tag rebel group has been forced to retreat and is struggling to hang on to many of its gains.

Opposition fighters have now taken up defensive positions near Brega following their dramatic reversal of fortune.

It was about 10 miles east of the town that the coalition air raid happened, according to a rebel official.

Issa Khamis said the four civilian victims were an ambulance driver and three medical students from the second city of Benghazi, who were part of a rebel convoy of five or six vehicles.

Rebel fighters were reportedly shooting tracer fire into the air to celebrate a group of them advancing into the city when the air strike happened.

But one rebel fighter Mustafa Ali Omar claimed some of Col Gaddafi's forces had sneaked in among the rebels and fired anti-aircraft guns in the air.

"After that the Nato forces came and bombed them," he added.

A Nato spokeswoman said the coalition was looking into the reports.

But the opposition force remains defiant even as Col Gaddafi's forces renew attacks on Misratah - the main city the rebels still hold in western Libya.

Residents said government forces have continued their intense bombardment, and medical officials claim six civilians were killed by sniper fire and the army shelling the area on Saturday.

Doctors said 243 people have been killed and 1,000 others wounded in more than a month and a half of fighting between the two sides.

Amid fierce battles, rebel leaders said they would accept a ceasefire if Col Gaddafi's forces withdrew from key areas they have besieged.

But the regime mocked the offer, dismissing it as "mad".

Libyan government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim said: "The rebels never offered any peace.

"We are the ones who offered peace weeks ago, and we said we are going to talk, and let's sit down.

"The rebels - you're not offering peace if you are making impossible demands. It's a trick."

Furthermore, reports of the rebel deaths come after the Libyan government claimed Western airstrikes at a village nine miles from Brega killed at least 12 civilians and wounded dozens more.

The attack hit a truck carrying ammunition for Col Gaddafi's forces and the resulting explosion destroyed two homes.

However, rebels have told Sky News it was their aircraft that was flying that day.

Security editor Sam Kiley, reporting from Ajdabiya, said if that is true, it showed Nato was prepared to be highly flexible in its interpretation of the no-fly zone.

"One might have assumed the no-fly zone applied to all aircraft," he said.

"But clearly, in negotiation with Nato - which is responsible for policing that no-fly zone - there is a possibility the rebels can get into the air.

"The rebels told us that they were able to conduct some airstrikes between 5.10pm and 6.30pm local time on Wednesday.

"They have not been in the air since. They don't have many planes and they're not of the sophisticated type that Nato has.

"Therefore there's more vulnerability to the civilian population for deaths."

Nato airstrikes have been reduced considerably in the past three days due to adverse weather conditions.

Officials have said cloud cover and sandstorms have made it difficult to distinguish between Col Gaddafi's forces, rebels and civilians.

Speaking on Sky News, Defence Secretary Liam Fox hit back at Libyan claims that coalition air strikes were killing civilians.

He said the military intervention had avoided hitting targets where innocent people might be hurt and insisted its leaders held the "moral high ground".

"Isn't it the ultimate in hypocrisy for them to talk about casualties among the civilian population when they are on a daily basis, shelling housing, schools, hospitals, mosques in cities like Misratah, inflicting who knows what death and destruction on their own people?"

"The international coalition has been extraordinarily careful to avoid civilian casualties where at all possible.

"We are there to try to stop the Gaddafi regime indiscriminately killing people inside their own country."

Meanwhile, the US is preparing to withdraw its planes from the allied military operation.

US Defence Secretary Robert Gates said American combat missions would end on Saturday, with Nato partners and other coalition nations picking up the slack.

Mr Gates said no one should be surprised by the move, although he called the timing "unfortunate".

The US will continue to help with aerial refuelling, search and rescue, and aerial reconnaissance.

[sinisa123]

2. Обама ионако не вуче потезе већ то раде Јевреји, али не обични Јевреји, забога има и међу њима дивних људи, а и култура им није лоша  , него су за све криви Ционисти. 
3. Најгоре од свега је што због тих Јевреја Американци гину на Блиском Истоку, ето не би они ишли да ратују - они су доказано мирољубив народ, види се то кроз историју. 
4. И свега тога не би било да су ови Арапи демократе као Американци, а то што не иду на Сауди Арабију је само због пара, не због тога што они мисле да је тамо демократски режим. 
5. Уствари, боље би било да нема тих Јевреја, ионако сви проблеми од њих потичу. Све је било дивно док не добише државу. 

MILOŠE  BOJANIĆU,  OPROSTI NAM!!! 

potpisujem. mada ima cionista hriscana i to ne mali broj. hilari i dzo bajden kao primjeri.

[lilit]

šta potpisuješ? mog sajko komšiju ili varvarina?

[sinisa123]

tvog sajka naravno, koji ipak nije sajko vec izgleda jedan misleci covjek.

[Meho Krljic]

Dobro je znati da iza američkog predsednika koji je verovatno musliman, a skoro sigurno nije američki državljanin (barem su tako tvrdili njegovi politički oponenti i među republikancima i među demokratama) stoji cionistički lobi. Odmah se čovek bezbednije oseća. Ipak su ti cionisti ekipa sa pedigreom i tradicijom.

[Meho Krljic]

Inače:

'Koran Burn Preacher' To Protest At US Mosque

A militant preacher in Florida whose Koran burning triggered deadly riots in Afghanistan has vowed to lead an anti-Islam protest outside the biggest mosque in America.

The planned demonstration could further inflame tensions over the Koran burning, which led to two days of protests in Afghanistan that included the killings of UN staff and stoked anti-Western sentiment across the Muslim world.

"Our aim is to make an awareness of the radical element of Islam," pastor Terry Jones said at the church he leads in the college town of Gainesville, Florida.

"Obviously it is terrible any time people are murdered or killed - I think that on the other hand, it shows the radical element of Islam."

Jones, a former hotel manager turned pastor who claims the Koran incites violence, said he will go ahead with a protest on April 22 in front of the US' largest mosque, in Dearborn, Michigan.

US President Barack Obama denounced the act of burning a Koran but did not mention Jones by name.

"The desecration of any holy text, including the Koran, is an act of extreme intolerance and bigotry," Mr Obama said in a statement released by the White House.

"However, to attack and kill innocent people in response is outrageous, and an affront to human decency and dignity."

Government officials in Pakistan and Afghanistan have called for US authorities to arrest Jones, however his public criticism of Islam and desecration of the Koran are allowed under US laws protecting free speech.

Jones provoked an international outcry last year over his plan to burn copies of the Koran on the anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, with Mr Obama saying it would cause "profound damage" to the US.

He backed down after pleas from the US government and other world officials, but then presided over a March 20 mock trial of the Koran that included a torching of the book.

Internet footage later reverberated across the Muslim world and sparked the latest wave of violence.

[sinisa123]

Dobro je znati da iza američkog predsednika koji je verovatno musliman, a skoro sigurno nije američki državljanin (barem su tako tvrdili njegovi politički oponenti i među republikancima i među demokratama) stoji cionistički lobi. Odmah se čovek bezbednije oseća. Ipak su ti cionisti ekipa sa pedigreom i tradicijom.

obama je klonirani faraon ehnaton, islamske vjeroispovjesti i jos cipovan i programiran, znaci, drze ga na daljinskom ne moze im pobjeci nikako.
ovo su uradili iz predostroznosti jer se putin oteo kontroli pa sad tamani "ruske oligarhe" u prevodu cioniste koje rusiju drze u kandzama od 1917.

[Meho Krljic]

  Dobro zvuči.

[Meho Krljic]

Međunarodni krivični sud "zna" da je Gadafijev režim planirao da ubija civile i time spreči antivladine demonstracije:

'Gaddafi Regime Planned To Kill Civilians'

Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's regime planned to put down protests by killing civilians before the uprising began, the International Criminal Court believes.

Anti-Libyan government demonstrations which started in February soon descended into civil war after the dictator's forces opened fire on protesters.

Court prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo is to report back to the UN on May 4, and is then expected to request arrest warrants.

He said: "We have evidence that after the Tunisia and Egypt conflicts in January, people in the regime were planning how to control demonstrations inside Libya.

"They were hiding that from people outside and they were planning how to manage the crowds.

"The evidence we have is that the shooting of civilians was a pre-determined plan."

He added: "The planning at the beginning was to use tear gas and (if that failed to work) shooting."

Meanwhile, Sky News has returned to Zawiyah - a town which saw a bloody uprising put down by Col Gaddafi's troops.

Correspondent Stuart Ramsay discovered that the mosque which had been at the heart of the rebellion was razed to the ground.

In Tripoli, government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim appeared to admit for the first time that civilians had been killed during battles in Zawiyah.

But he blamed "armed militias" rather than Col Gaddafi's troops.

Elsewhere in Libya, Nato forces have reportedly launched air strikes on government forces near the key oil town of Brega.

It came as David Cameron said there was no future for Libya while the dictator was still in charge.

The Prime Minister said: "How could there be when he's literally been trying to butcher his own people?"

Rebels said the troops' convoy of eight vehicles was hit early on Tuesday and two trucks mounted with machine guns were destroyed.

Both sides are battling for control of the key eastern port, which has changed hands several times.

Rebel attempts to fire rockets and mortars against government forces have been met with counter-attacks, sending rebel forces scrambling many miles east towards Ajdabiya.

Opposition fighters have been asking the coalition to assist them with bombardments against the dictator's troops for days.

Sky's Sam Kiley, in Ajdabiya, said: "The fact that there have been some air strikes, we believe, should be very encouraging to them (the rebels).

"(The rebels) are very anxious to take the oil terminal at Brega so they can begin to export oil through an arrangement with Qatar."

The Libyan regime has said it is ready to discuss reforms to its political system, but insists that Col Gaddafi must be allowed to stay in the country.

Nato says its aerial onslaught has destroyed 30% of Libya's military weapons. The alliance's warplanes have flown 851 sorties since taking command of UN-backed military action last week.

Meanwhile, an oil tanker has arrived at a rebel-held eastern port in Tobruk, where it is expected to be loaded for the first time in nearly three weeks.

Hm... biće zanimljiv dokazni postupak u kome se dokazuje kako je plan, makar nerealizovan dovoljan da se neko optuži.

Doduše, ovi jesu pucali po civilima, ali da li je to bilo po planu?

[shrike]

Vođa pobunjeničkih snaga u Libiji Abdelfatah Junis optužio je danas NATO da previše sporo reaguje, ističući da će ukoliko ne budu "valjano radili svoj posao" tražiti od Saveta bezbednosti UN da suspenduje operaciju Alijanse
"Ili će NATO da radi kako treba, ili ćemo da tražimo od Saveta bezbednosti UN da suspenduju njihovu operaciju", rekao je Junis na konferenciji za novinare u Bengaziju, uporištu pobunjenika na istoku zemlje.
Takvo inertno ponašanje NATO-a omogućava snagama lojalnim Moameru Gadafiju da napreduju i svakodnevno ubijaju narod u Misrati, kazao je Junis, prenele su agencije.
"NATO je postao naš problem", naglasio je on.
U međuvremenu, Gadafijeve snage primorale su pobunjenike na novo povlačenje ka Bengaziju, tako da je front pomeren ka Adždabiju. To je najveće povlačenje pobunjenika u poslednjih nekoliko dana.

[Джон Рейнольдс]

Udri bagru, pukovniče!

Naravoučenije. Pukovnik je bio glup, pa je pokušao da se sliže s Imperijom Zla. Sad su mu blokirali račune, rade mu o glavi i ostao je bez snažnih saveznika (Srbi su snažni na fejbuku, ali vojno nisu). Što se kaže, ko s đavolom tikve sadi, o glavu mu se lupaju. Nikad aktuelnija izreka.

[Truba]

jebote kao da smo u minoriti riportu kad se ljudi osuđuju na osnovu plana

[scallop]

Ali bez Toma K(uku)ruza. Važno je da imaju optužbu, lako ćemo posle za dokaze.

[SIMERIJANAC]

Диктатори научили лекције из Гадафијевог случаја   
   
Пол Пилар   
 
понедељак, 04. април 2011. 
(The National Interest, March 25, 2011)

Северна Кореја је из интервенције у Либији извукла следећи наук: не смарајте се прављењем дила са Западом о одустајању од свог нуклеарног програма. Одвраћање је важније.

Пре пар дана сам приметио да једна од последица присиљавања Моамера Гадафија да напусти власт, што Запад - на неки начин - покушава сада да уради, је да уништи било какву могућност да другим ауторитарним режимима падне на памет да се угледају на Гадафија по питању постизања споразума са Западом о питањима као што су нуклеарно оружје или тероризам. Либијски лидер је био направио такав договор, и одустао је од тероризма и свог програма неконвенционалног оружја у замену за нормалне односе и прихватање у заједницу народа. Запад сада показује да ће, са дилом или без, у сваком случају искористити прилику да се отараси Гадафијевог режима. Јасна лекција је да Западу не треба веровати, да су бесмислене све шаргарепе које нуди, и да би други режими били наивчине ако би направили договор са Западом око нечега као што је одустајање од програма нуклеарног наоружања.

Није прошло много пре него што је најмање једна диктатура не само извукла ту поуку, већ и јавно прозборила о томе. Званична севернокорејска новинска агенција дистрибуирала је овонедељне коментаре једног званичника министарства спољних послова који је рекао да је Либија преварена када је 2003. године постигла споразум са САД и Великом Британијом. Западне силе, наводи овај званичник, играју велику игру штапа и шаргарепе. "Либијска криза пружила је међународној заједницу озбиљну лекцију", рекао је исти званичник. Он је навео да Северна Кореја неће начинити исту грешку као Гадафи и да заправо чини праву ствар тиме што задржава свако оружје које има.

Сједињене Државе су пружиле лидерима Северне Кореје не само једну лекцију, већ цео курс о томе шта чинити са својим програмом нуклеарног наоружања. Рат у Ираку као и америчка политика према самој Северној Кореји, представљају практичан пример да ако сте случајно мислили да се баците на прављење нуклеарног оружја, са тим пожурите пуном паром и осигурајте бар једну бомбу у подруму као средство одвраћања, пре него што Сједињене Државе или неко други употреби војну силу како би вас се отарасио. А у вези са либијском ситуацијом, лекција је да се треба грчевито држати за какво год нуклеарно оружје које сте већ успели да направите. Нема сумње да су владари Ирана, с обзиром да нису празноглави, извукли исте лекције. Биће веома тешко и захтеваће много времена и труда, одучити их.

Злосрећне лекције представљају неку врсту индиректне последице усмеравања премало пажње пре тако кључне иницијативе као што је војна интервенција у Либији. Далеко од тога да се никада не разматра могући ефекат на перцепцију трећих лица, али се то разматрање своди на једну једину идеју: уколико Сједињене Државе не употребе силу у датој ситуацији, њихов кредибилитет ће бити уздрман, те друге владе неће веровати да ће оне употребити силу уколико је то потребно у свакој другој ситуацији у којој су угрожени витални интереси САД. Као што је већ истакао Бенџамин Фридман, историјски наук противречи том схватању. Владе не мере кредибилитет на тај начин, зато што оно што САД чине када им витални интереси нису угрожени представља лош показатељ онога што ће урадити када буду. Насупрот томе, искуство Гадафијевог режима у пословању са Западом дá се директно применити на незгодну ситуацију у којој се налазе Иран или Северна Кореја.

Ништа од овога не би требало да изненади онога ко је добро проучио Томаса Шелинга (Thomas C. Schelling) и принципе дипломатије одвраћања и принуде. Успешно вршење утицаја зависи не само од веровања друге стране да ћете извршити претњу уколико не буде сарађивала, већ и од њеног веровања да нећете извршити претњу уколико буде сарађивала. Ваљало би да научимо ту лекцију и обуставимо банкротирање сопствене дипломатије.

Пол Р. Пилар је директор последипломских студија безбедности на Универзитету Џорџтаун и бивши национални обавештајни официр за Блиски исток и Јужну Азију

[scallop]

Šargarepe su vegetarijanska ujdurma. Uvek se završi sa mesom. Tuđim. Sitno mleveno. Pametnim bombama.

[Суба]

Хехе, прочитах јутрос уз кахву да сваки пети побуњеник ратује против Гадафија јер је јеврејског порекла.

[scallop]

Gadafi je jevrejskog porekla?

[Суба]

И ја кажем  Али ево, на ово налетех:

http://bigpeace.com/amutarjim/2011/03/02/gaddafi-is-secretly-a-jew-so-says-the-arab-press/

[SIMERIJANAC]

Tim pobunjenika sa pojačanjem iz inostranstva u sprintu pred Gadafijevim snagama.

[shrike]

Ovo može da bude i novinar.

[scallop]

Oni su druga grupa. Kenijci su već u Beogradu.