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Amerika na ivici propasti?

Started by Ghoul, 16-09-2008, 02:12:43

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tomat

Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics: even if you win, you're still retarded.

Meho Krljic

Start-ups Fund Wall St. Protest 
Quote

They're protesting big banks and corporations, so which start-ups are Occupy Wall Street looking to for collecting donations and financing a new media endeavor?
The Occupy Wall Street protesters who have been camping out in Lower Manhattan's Zuccotti Park since September 17 may be rallying against big-bank policies, but they've simultaneously needed an efficient method to fund their own efforts. To that end, they've turned away from large companies, instead working with start-ups in the online-payment and crowdfunding space.
The primary method employed by the protesters to collect donations has been through an account with WePay, an online payment-collection service start-up. Based in Palo Alto, California, WePay was founded in 2008 by Rich Aberman, a dissatisfied law student, and Bill Clerico, a disgruntled investment banker. The company's site bills itself as "taking the pain out of payments," and the site also allows donation-collection from the masses. Hero Vincent, a facilitator and informal PR representative for Occupy Wall Street, says that the group's online coffers have received a steady flow of donations from both domestic and international supporters through the site.
"We've had so much donated to the cause that we don't know what to do with it," Vincent said. "We've had donations for generators, we've had donations for food."
The loose group of activists who helped plan the beginning of the protest, which started at Bowling Green at the southern tip of Manhattan on September 17, made a WePay account back in the summer to raise $30,000 for the event. That's when WePay first heard of the protest plan, weeks before it had any on-ground presence or national-media attention, said Julia Kung, WePay's director of marketing.
That first effort at fundraising collected $29,724.73, just short of the protesters' goal. But subsequent efforts through WePay have surpassed goals. One campaign to raise money for a generator set a goal of $1,760 and raised $1,990. Another fund drive for "tickets back to Occupy Wall Street," aimed to raise $650.00. The stranded protesters, who raised almost double that amount in only a few hours, promised to use the rest of the money to buy supplies for the crowd in Zuccotti Park.
Kung stressed that WePay is apolitical. "However," she said, "we do understand the frustration with large corporations and big banks. It's why WePay was created."
Another online fundraising start-up is helping enable efforts of the protesters. Kickstarter, the Web-based crowd-funding platform, is a favorite of musicians, filmmakers, and artists looking to launch a one-time project. But it's also been used by designers and other start-ups to get an initial—informal—round of funding that resembles a "friends and family" round.
When groups of Occupy Wall Street protesters grew frustrated with what they felt was their lack of control over the way their message was presented in print, they began printing a publication of their own, the impishly named Occupy Wall Street Journal. The newspaper debuted this past Saturday with an initial run of 50,000 copies, which were distributed from the protester's base in Zuccotti Park.
The publishers turned to Kickstarter, which was founded in 2009, and claims to have since generated more than $75 million to fund several thousand projects. The Occupy Wall Street Journal's Kickstarter profile explained its objectives this way: "The idea is to explain what the protest is about and profile different people who have joined and why they joined. We will explain the issues involved and how the general assembly process operates at Liberty Plaza. It will also offer resources and ways to join. The emphasis will be on quality content, design, photography, and artwork that uses incisive humor to make it a lively read."
When a project goes up on Kickstarter, organizers can initiate a ticking clock, counting down to donation goal. The Occcupy Wall Street Journal was looking for $12,000 by October 9 to publish another issue of the paper. As of midday Friday, 1244 backers had contributed nearly $55,000.

scallop

Šta je? Još te čudi što se ljudi polako dižu protiv kockaske institucije Wall Street?
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

Meho Krljic

Ne čudi me, nego da notiram zanimljive informacije u vezi cele priče.

scallop

Onoga dana kada su bankarski krediti postali "proizvodi", bilo je jasno da je svet upao u krađu i prekrađu para. Ja više volim kad su proizvodi špenadle i kupus.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

varvarin

Jedna cinična dama o okupaciji Volstrita:

http://www.politika.rs/pogledi/Zeljka-Buturovic/Vruca-jesen.sr.html

Жељка Бутуровић, доктор психологије

Врућа јесен 

Српски медијски простор је, из неког разлога, екстремно америкоцентричан. Новинским вестима господаре догађаји из САД праћени огромним бројем коментара читалаца. Док велика већина вероватно не би могла да састави две реченице о питању пореских стопа у Румунији, Бугарској или чак Србији, све врви од жалопојки над пореским системом у САД. Стога не чуди да су недавни протести у америчким градовима наишли на топао пријем код српске публике. Обе групe краси не само завидан јаз између умишљеног и реалног разумевања америчког друштва и политике него, много горе, и једна општа политичка незрелост. Нажалост, оно што је у САД политичка филозофија остарелих хипика у Србији је далеко распрострањеније.

За почетак, ту је незаобилазан култ младости. За грађанина Србије, који је навикао да су му министри људи који нису прешли тридесету, где су странке у вечитој потери за ,,младим лидерима" и где се студентима одавно приписују политичка права која премашују права осталих грађана, нема боље гаранције да је неки протест на правом путу од те да њиме доминирају млади. Млади су, наиме, неискварени животним искуством па су самим тим најпоузданији морални компас сваког друштва.
Попут адолесцентских бунтовника, амерички демонстранти и њихови српски навијачи су убеђени да отвореном критиком Волстрита раде нешто јако храбро – да се боре против опаког система, да говоре истине које други ни не слуте, а и кад би их знали не би смели да их кажу; да се уздижу изнад гомиле и њеног конформизма – а све понављајући милион пута изречене полуистине и општа места уз пуну подршку филмских звезда, непосредног окружења и стопроцентну сигурност да ама баш никаквих озбиљних последица неће бити.

Демонстранти су огорчени статистикама о материјалним разликама у популацији као да се цео живот врти око предмета и новца. Умишља се да у САД хара сиромаштво иако се ради о људима чији је животни стандард виши од стандарда 99 одсто људи у историји цивилизације. Велика већина статистичке категорије ,,сиромашних" нису никакви изгладнели бескућници већ више него добро ухрањени људи који живе у становима који имају клима-уређај, машину за сушење веша и више од једног телевизора.
Демонстранти са Волстрита и њихови навијачи су убеђени да је за светску кризу крива некаква ,,дерегулација", иако се количина прописа која регулише најситнија правила пословања свакодневно увећава стотинама страница. У реалности, основни узрок последње финансијске кризе јесте униформност понашања банака коју су произвели силни компликовани прописи: ако констелација прописа има неку ману – а што је немогуће предвидети управо због њиховог броја и комплексности – погрешиће не једна или две него све институције. Једноставно, тамо где је све прописано нема места да се мисли другачије...

Anomander Rejk

Eto, rešen problem. Šta se koji đavo bune, imaju mašinu za sušenje veša, klima uređaj i televizor...
Tajno pišem zbirke po kućama...

scallop

Ovo je pacijent psihologije. Ona pojma nema o čemu govori, od trenutka kad počne da piše o dve grupe, a do kraja teksta ih ne razdvoji. Mene zapanjuje da to Politika objavljuje.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

Father Jape

Objavljivali su oni i gore njene tekstove.
Blijedi čovjek na tragu pervertita.
To je ta nezadrživa napaljenost mladosti.
Dušman u odsustvu Dušmana.

džin tonik

Quote from: scallop on 12-10-2011, 16:15:33
... Mene zapanjuje da to Politika objavljuje.

ova ti je dobra! stvarno dobra!  xrofl 

scallop

Šta je, bre? Svetska revolucija počinje a mi ništa. Muka je što će Ameri jednog dana pričati kako su oni prvi započeli.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

mac


Father Jape

Zamišljam skalopa kako kuva džinovski lonac nekog neverovatnog paprikaša, i onda nosi do Vol strita da nahrani raju ispred.
Blijedi čovjek na tragu pervertita.
To je ta nezadrživa napaljenost mladosti.
Dušman u odsustvu Dušmana.

scallop

Ja ću da hranim ovde takve kao ti kad vam dođe iz dupeta u glavu.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

Father Jape

Blijedi čovjek na tragu pervertita.
To je ta nezadrživa napaljenost mladosti.
Dušman u odsustvu Dušmana.

Albedo 0

Quote from: scallop on 12-10-2011, 16:15:33
Ovo je pacijent psihologije. Ona pojma nema o čemu govori, od trenutka kad počne da piše o dve grupe, a do kraja teksta ih ne razdvoji. Mene zapanjuje da to Politika objavljuje.

pa što bi ih razdvajala kad tvrdi da su isti?

tekst je naravno loš, to stoji, posebno jer je taj isti Volstrit podržavao hipike u demonstracijama protiv rata u Vijetnamu.

scallop

Ajde, kad već tvrdiš da si toliko pametan, napiši nešto pametno. Nema kredita za Џ.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

Albedo 0

da pišem o čemu?

Ako želiš prosvjetljenje, imaš sto tekstova na blogu 8-)

Milosh

"Ernest Hemingway once wrote: "The world is a fine place and worth fighting for." I agree with the second part."

http://milosh.mojblog.rs/

Meho Krljic

Nije u Americi nego u Rimu, ali povodi su, hm, američki:

Police Fire Tear Gas as Protesters Riot in Rome 
Quote

  By ALESSANDRA RIZZO and MEERA SELVA Associated Press  ROME October 15, 2011 (AP) 
   
Italian police fired tear gas and water cannons as protesters in Rome turned a demonstration against corporate greed into a riot Saturday, smashing shop and bank windows, torching cars and hurling bottles.
The protest in the Italian capital was part of "Occupy Wall Street" demonstrations against capitalism and austerity measures that went global Saturday, leading to dozens of marches and protests worldwide.
Black smoke billowed into the air in downtown Rome as a small group broke away from the main demonstration and wreaked havoc in streets closed to the Colosseum.
Protesters clad in black with their faces covered threw rocks, bottles and other objects at police in riot gear. Some had held clubs, others had hammers. They threw an incendiary devices and firecrackers at banks, destroyed bank ATMs and set trash bins on fire, news reports said.
   null   AP  A hooded protestor holding a Euro sign walks... View Full Caption  A hooded protestor holding a Euro sign walks up to the gate of the NYSE Euronext stock exchange in Amsterdam, Netherlands, Saturday Oct. 15, 2011, during a demonstration in support of the Occupy Wall Street movement. Demonstrators in hundreds of cities all over the world are protesting against what they call corporate power and the banking system. (AP Photo/Peter Dejong) Close      Two news crews from Sky Italia were assaulted.
TV footage showed police in riot gear charging the protesters and firing water cannons at them.
The ANSA news agency said some protesters trashed offices of the Defense Ministry and of a labor agency, smashing windows with clubs and setting cars on fire.
Police were out in force as up to 100,000 protesters were expected a day after Premier Silvio Berlusconi barely survived a confidence vote in Parliament. Italy is rapidly becoming a focus of concern in Europe's debt crisis.
"People of Europe: Rise Up!" read a banner in Rome. Some peaceful demonstrators turned against the violent group and tried to stop them, hurling bottles, Sky Italia and ANSA said. Others fled, scared by the violence.
At least one man was injured as he tried to stop some protesters from hurling bottles.
Anarchist groups have often infiltrated demonstrations in Italy in the past. ANSA said four people from an anarchist group were arrested Saturday morning before the demonstration, with police seizing helmets, anti-gas masks, clubs and hundreds of bottles in their car.

pokojni Steva

Ja već navlačim NPK, pa da mućkamo.
Jelte, jel' i kod vas petnaes' do pola dvanaes'?

Meho Krljic

Oooo, slatko: dvoje su se tako smuvali:

  'Will you occupy the rest of my life?' proposal gives Occupy Wall Street a romantic tinge 
Quote

  For one Brooklyn couple, nothing is more romantic than the Occupy Wall Street protest.
Brian Douglas, 33, popped the question to his girlfriend of more than two years, Deb Szczepkowski, 32, at the downtown Manhattan sit-in on Saturday - and a video of the proposal has become a huge hit with netizens who like a good love story.
Holding a diamond ring, Douglas grabbed a microphone - normally used to rally and inform the faithful - and uttered the eight words every unmarried protester wants to hear:
"Will you occupy the rest of my life?" he asked.
Szczepkowski said yes, they embraced and the crowd went wild.
"We were going to be together [regardless of the engagement]," Douglas told The Daily News. "I just wanted it to be a memory."
He said he was overcome with a desire to put a ring on Szczepkowski's finger while they were at the protests recently.
The huddled masses howling for social change, he said, simply inspired him to propose because it was "the first time I felt optimistic."
"I'd been down there a couple of times and I just pictured [using] the people's microphone [to propose] and realized I could take Deb down there and bring all of our friends," Douglas said of his thinking.
Once he had made up his mind, he said he had to scramble to pull off his plan because of talk the city was going to clear out the protest's Zuccotti Park base to allow for a scrubdown.
"I have to do this as soon as possible because I was so scared the cops were going to shut it down," he recalled thinking.
"She had no idea."
That weekend he went ring shopping and found a perfect 1920s vintage diamond - and the rest is history, as recorded in a video that was posted online on Sunday and went viral the very next day.
The couple lives in Bushwick. They have an 8-month-old son, a reality that Douglas admitted speeded up their courtship to a degree.
"When she told me she was late, I just hugged her because I was scared she was going to break up with me when she said, 'We need to talk,'" he remembered. "So when she said, 'I'm late,' I was just so happy!"
As the video of their Occupy moment continues to splash through the Internet, Szczepkowski said the challenge they now face is planning their big day. They hope to say their vows sometime in the coming year.
"We just want to find a place where we can fit as much of our friends and family as we can," she said.
While most of the comments that were posted to the video on YouTube were positive, Douglas, who works as a web developer, admitted he was disturbed by the venom that some people used to describe the protesters.
"I have a job," he said in response to the haters. "I'm not one of those people who can sleep there (in the park). I have to go home and be with my family."
Szczepkowski, who works as a video editor, said she wanted to join the protest because she felt it represented her first chance to really make a change in the world.
"I vote, but I don't feel like I do much as a small person," she said. "I feel this movement is a lot of people who feel like they aren't being represented."
She added: "It's something that I feel could be positive, instead of feeling like the future is spiraling out of control."
nmandell@nydailynews.com

OccupyMyLife.MOV

Karl Rosman


postoji nekoliko prikladnih topica za ovo...





:(
"On really romantic evenings of self, I go salsa dancing with my confusion."
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won over it"

Savajat Erp

Niste mi verovali da ću da pucam?!
ZAŠTO MI NISTE VEROVALI?!!!!

angel011

@Karl: taj beskućnik će imati smeštaj na duže vreme...
We're all mad here.

Karl Rosman


Quote from: angel011 on 20-10-2011, 23:16:18
@Karl: taj beskućnik će imati smeštaj na duže vreme...


That's what she said....
"On really romantic evenings of self, I go salsa dancing with my confusion."
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won over it"

Josephine

Quote from: angel011 on 20-10-2011, 23:16:18
@Karl: taj beskućnik će imati smeštaj na duže vreme...

On je, verovatno, imao ideju da to bude na nekoliko meseci...  :roll:

Meho Krljic

Bizaran primer američke policijske brutalnosti:

Postgame Haka dancers in Utah pepper sprayed by police 
Quote

Controversy has erupted in Utah after police reacted aggressively to a traditional Maori dance being performed by men and high school students after a small town football game on Thursday night.

According to the Associated Press, Deseret News and Salt Lake Tribune, among other sources, a group of relatives of a player for the Roosevelt (Utah) Union High football team was attacked with pepper spray by police officers in Roosevelt, Utah while performing the dance shortly after Uintah's 17-14 victory. The group performing the Haka reportedly blocked the exit from the field, and while their dance was destined to be a quick one -- as practically all Hakas performed by sports teams are -- police insisted that they move from the area to allow players and others to leave the field.
When they began dancing instead, Roosevelt police began using pepper spray to displace the crowd.
"I've never seen anything like it," Union fan Jason Kelly told the Deseret News. "It was totally unprovoked."
[Related: Utah High school team pays tribute to paralyzed teammate]
The Haka has become a more popular pre-game or postgame attraction for sports teams across American sports after its use by the New Zealand All Blacks rugby team spread globally. The All Blacks, who perform an intimidating Haka before every game, won the 2011 Rugby World Cup on Sunday in an 8-7 victory against France.
The pepper spray spread far beyond the performers, reaching players and fans at the game and causing fans to run from the scene with watering eyes.
You can see video of the Haka melee above, which shows police officers insisting that the dancers "make a hole," in their formation to allow players and others to leave the field. As onlooker Zack Aguiniga told the Salt Lake Tribune, the dancers may not have been able to hear that command because they were in the middle of their Haka performance, chanting loudly in unison and drowning out surrounding noise.
As the police officers sprayed the crowd, either a dancer or onlooker could be heard yelling "I'm going to sue you guys," at the officers.
Nearly all who reported witnessing the incident said the dancers posed no security threat and questioned why police had acted the way they did.

"Five seconds into it, the police officers started coming at them with their clubs, telling them to make room," Union fan Jessica Rasmussen told the Tribune. "They started spraying Mace."
Shawn Mitchell, who was at the game with his son and mother-in-law, also categorized the police response as a clear overreaction when interviewed by the Deseret News.
"I didn't see anything that looked like there could be a threat," he said.

Ima i video zapis:

Tongans get maced while performing Haka at high school football game

Meho Krljic

Ad for gun training bars Muslims and Obama voters 
Quote
A radio ad for a handgun training class that bars Muslims and Obama voters has sparked an investigation in Texas.
"We will attempt to teach you all the necessary information you need to obtain your [Concealed Handgun License]," the ad says. Then towards the end, it adds: "If you are a socialist liberal and/or voted for the current campaigner in chief, please do not take this class. You have already proven that you cannot make a knowledgeable and prudent decision under the law."
And then: "If you are a non-Christian Arab or Muslim, I will not teach you the class with no shame; I am Crockett Keller, thank you, and God bless America."
The ad ran for six days on KHLB, Mason's local station. It's also been heard tens of thousands of times on Youtube.
Keller, 65, has said in media interviews that he just regards the message is just common sense. "The fact is, if you are a devout Muslim, then you cannot be a true American," he told local news station KVUE, while fielding calls congratulating him for his stance. "Why should I arm these people to kill me? That's suicide."
"I call it exercising my right to choose who I instruct in how to use a dangerous weapon," he added.
But the state of Texas may disagree. The Department of Public Safety said in a statement that certified instructors of handgun training are required to comply with all applicable state and federal laws, and added: "Conduct by an instructor that denied service to individuals on the basis of race, ethnicity or religion would place that instructor's certification by the Department at risk of suspension or revocation." The department has said it has begun an investigation.
It seems unlikely that Keller will back down, though. "I'm not going to do it," he told the local news. "I will give up my license to teach before I will teach them," he said, referring to Obama voters and Muslims.

Melkor

Adolf Hitler in Custody Battle                   
adolf hitler
Adolf Hitler is one of the most evil men to ever walk the face of the planet. He also happens to be a little boy in New Jersey. Adolf Hitler Campbell was taken away from his parents in 2009 because welfare officials said that his name was a form of abuse.
And Adolf Hitler isn't the only strange name in the Campbell family. Heath and Deborah Campbell named their daughter JoyceLynn Aryan Nation Campbell. But is an offensive name reason enough to divide a family?
Here's a news report filmed shortly after Adolf Hitler was taken away from his parents.
<a href="Parents Lose Custody Of Adolf Hitler">Watch on YouTube.</a>
Yahoo! News reports that the Campbells are fighting to get their children back. The Campbell's say that Adolf Hitler was wrongfully taken away since there was no evidence of abuse.
Heath said:
"The judge and
[the Division of Youth and Family Services) told us that there was no evidence of abuse and that it was the names. They were taken over the children's names." Ms. Campbell added:
"I don't sleep, I don't eat much. I miss my kids. Miss their pitter patters on the floor."
The Campbell's insist that they are not neo-Nazi supporters, despite the fact that their home is decorated with swastikas. But even if the Campbells are neo-Nazis, does that mean that they aren't allowed to have children?
If Gwenyth Paltrow can name her daughter Apple. If Jason Lee can name his son Pilot Inspektor. If Bob Geldof can name his kids Fifi-Trixibelle, Peaches, Little Trixie, and Honeyblossom, then why can't the Campbells name their son Adolph?
Why can this dad dress this kid like this?
father of the year
Kids are going to be subjected to all of their parents beliefs and flaws. Whether the parents are Nazis, uber-christian preachers, extreme right nut jobs, or liberal lefty pot heads, they have the right to raise their children how they choose. Right?
Or does naming your kid Adolf Hitler cross a line?
"Realism is a literary technique no longer adequate for the purpose of representing reality."

mac


Meho Krljic

A na drugoj strani

Reformed skinhead endures agony to remove tattoos 
Quote

    Julie Widner was terrified — afraid her husband would do something reckless, even disfigure himself.
"We had come so far," she says. "We had left the movement, had created a good family life. We had so much to live for. I just thought there has to be someone out there who will help us."
After getting married in 2006, the couple, former pillars of the white power movement (she as a member of the National Alliance, he a founder of the Vinlanders gang of skinheads) had worked hard to put their racist past behind them. They had settled down and had a baby; her younger children had embraced him as a father.
___
EDITOR'S NOTE — A reformed skinhead, Bryon Widner was desperate to rid himself of the racist tattoos that covered his face — so desperate that he turned to former enemies for help, and was willing to endure months of pain. Second of two parts.
___
And yet, the past was ever-present — tattooed in brutish symbols all over his body and face: a blood-soaked razor, swastikas, the letters "HATE" stamped across his knuckles.
Wherever he turned Widner was shunned — on job sites, in stores and restaurants. People saw a menacing thug, not a loving father. He felt like an utter failure.
The couple had scoured the Internet trying to learn how to safely remove the facial tattoos. But extensive facial tattoos are extremely rare, and few doctors have performed such complicated surgery. Besides, they couldn't afford it. They had little money and no health insurance.
So Widner began investigating homemade recipes, looking at dermal acids and other solutions. He reached the point, he said, where "I was totally prepared to douse my face in acid."
In desperation, Julie did something that once would have been unimaginable. She reached out to a black man whom white supremacists consider their sworn enemy.
Daryle Lamont Jenkins runs an anti-hate group called One People's Project based in Philadelphia. The 43-year-old activist is a huge thorn in the side of white supremacists, posting their names and addresses on his website, alerting people to their rallies and organizing counter protests.
In Julie he heard the voice of a woman in trouble.
"It didn't matter who she had once been or what she had once believed," he said. "Here was a wife and mother prepared to do anything for her family."
Jenkins suggested that Widner contact T.J. Leyden, a former neo-Nazi skinhead Marine who had famously left the movement in 1996, and has promoted tolerance ever since. More than anyone else, Leyden understood the revulsion and self-condemnation that Widner was going through. And the danger.
"Hide in plain sight," he advised. "Lean on those you trust."
Most importantly, Leyden told him to call the Southern Poverty Law Center.
"If anyone can help," he said, "it's those guys."
___
When Widner called, says Joseph Roy, "it was like the Osama Bin Laden of the movement calling in."
Roy is chief investigator of hate and extreme groups for the SPLC. The nonprofit civil rights organization, based in Montgomery, Ala., tracks hate groups, militias and extreme organizations. Aggressive at bringing lawsuits, it has successfully shut down leading white power groups, bankrupted their leaders and won multimillion dollar awards for victims.
The SPLC hears regularly from people who say they are trying to leave hate and extreme groups. Some are fakes. Some are trying to spread false intelligence. Many are in crisis, and return to the group when the crisis passes.
"Very rarely have we met a reformed racist skinhead," says Roy.
Over the years, Roy had dubbed Widner the "pit bull" of skinheads. "No one was more aggressive, more confrontational, more notorious," Roy said.
And yet, over several weeks of conversations with Bryon and Julie, he became convinced. There was something different about this couple — a sincerity, a raw determination to put the past behind them and to seek some sort of redemption.
In March 2007 Roy and an assistant flew to Michigan. Roy still marvels at the memory of the guy with the freakish face walking out to greet them, wearing a "World's Greatest Dad" sweat shirt, holding his baby boy in one arm while a little girl clung to his other one.
Over the next few days they got to see the suffering Bryon was going through. They listened in horror when he told them he was considering using acid on his face. "He was in a bad place," Roy said. "This was a guy who was fighting for his life."
Widner shared information about the structure of various skinhead groups, the different forms of probation in some gangs, the hierarchy of others. He agreed to speak at the SPLC's annual Skinhead Intelligence Network conference, which draws police from all over the country.
For his part, Roy promised to ask his organization to do something it had never done before — search for a donor to pay for Widner's tattoos to be surgically removed. Widner didn't hold out much hope. But for now, he agreed not to experiment with acid.
Financially and emotionally, things were getting tougher. Widner found part-time work shoveling snow and odd handyman jobs, but barely enough to support a family. The vicious postings on the Internet continued. Pig manure was dumped on their cars. There were hang-up calls in the middle of the night. Anonymous callers left threatening messages: "You will die." Several times, tipped off by sympathetic friends that a crew was on the way to "take care" of them, the family fled to a hotel.
So when Roy called a couple of months later saying a donor was willing to pay for the surgery, Widner could hardly believe it. The donor, a longtime supporter of the SPLC had been moved by Widner's story — and shocked by photographs of his face.
"For him to have any chance in life and do good," she said, "I knew those tattoos had to come off."
She agreed to fund the surgeries — at a cost of approximately $35,000 — on several conditions. She wanted to remain anonymous. She wanted assurances that Bryon would get his GED, would go into counseling and would pursue either a college education or a trade.
It was easy to agree. These were all things Widner wanted to do.
It would take up to a year to find the right doctors and schedule the operations. Meanwhile, it was clear the family had to leave Michigan. The white power Web forums were wild with chatter about the race traitor couple and their family. Through local police, the FBI warned that they were in danger.
In the spring of 2008 they packed their belongings and moved to Tennessee, near Julie's father. They rented a three-bedroom house in the country, joined a church. Helped by his father-in-law and his pastor, Widner found some work. The threats subsided.
___
Dr. Bruce Shack, who chairs the Department of Plastic Surgery at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville, vividly remembers the first time he met Widner. After seeing photographs and talking to the SPLC, he had agreed to do the surgery. But he was totally unprepared for Widner's face.
"This wasn't just a few tattoos," he said. "This was an entire canvas."
It was June 2009 and the couple had driven to Vanderbilt to meet him. Shack's genial manner immediately put them at ease.
"He didn't just see the tattoos," Widner says. "He saw me as a real human being."
Shack also saw one of the biggest challenges of his career.
Shack showed Widner the laser — which looks like a long, fat pen — that would trace the exact outline of the tattoos as it burned them off his face. He explained how it would deliver short bursts of energy, different amounts depending on the color and depth of the tattoo. It would take many sessions for the ink to fade. And it would be painful, far more painful than getting the tattoos in the first place.
"You are going to feel like you have the worst sunburn in the world, your face will swell up like a prizefighter, but it will eventually heal," Shack told Widner. "This is not going to be any fun. But if you are willing to do it, I'm willing to help."
Widner didn't hesitate. "I have to do it," he said, as Julie held his hand. "I am never going to live a normal life unless I do."
On June 22, 2009, Widner lay on an operating table, his mind spinning with anxiety and hope. A nurse dabbed numbing gel all over his face. Shack towered over him in protective goggles and injected a local anesthetic. Then he started jabbing Widner's skin, the laser making a staccato rat-tat-tat sound as it burned through his flesh.
Widner had never felt such pain. Not all the times he had suffered black eyes and lost teeth in bar brawls, not the time in jail when guards — for fun — locked him up with a group of black inmates in order to see him taken down. His face swelled up in a burning rage, his eyes were black and puffy, his hands looked like blistered boxing gloves. He had never felt so helpless or so miserable.
"I was real whiny during that time," he says.
"He was real brave," says Julie.
After a couple of sessions, Shack decided that Widner was in too much pain: The only way to continue was to put him under general anesthetic for every operation. It was also clear that the removal was going to take far longer than the seven or eight sessions he had originally anticipated.
They developed a routine. Every few weeks, Widner would spend about an hour and a half in surgery and another hour in recovery, while Julie would fuss and fret and try to summon the strength to hide her fears and smile at the bruised, battered husband she drove home. It would often take days for the burns and oozing blisters to subside.
Shack and his team marveled at Widner's determination and endurance. The Widners marveled at the team's level of commitment and care. Even nurses who were initially intimidated by Widner's looks found themselves growing fond of the stubborn former skinhead and his young family.
Slowly — far more slowly than Widner had hoped — the tattoos began to fade. In all he underwent 25 surgeries over the course of 16 months, on his face, neck and hands.
On Oct. 22, 2010, the day of the final operation, Shack hugged Julie and shook hands with Bryon. Removing the tattoos, he said, had been one of his greatest honors as a surgeon. But a greater privilege was getting to know them.
"Anyone who is prepared to put himself through this is bound to do something good with his life," Shack said.
___
In a comfortable yard in a tidy suburban subdivision, Bryon and Julie Widner smoke Marlboros and sip energy drinks as they contemplate the newest chapter in their lives. Only a few trusted friends and family members know where they live — they agreed to be interviewed on condition that the location of their new home not be disclosed.
This time, they moved because they had deliberately exposed themselves to danger. After much consideration, the couple had agreed to allow an MSNBC film crew to follow Widner through his surgeries. The cameras didn't spare the details, capturing Widner writhing and moaning in agony. Widner didn't care. If anything he felt that he deserved the pain and the public humiliation as a kind of penance for all the hurt he had caused over the years.
But there was a deeper motivation for going public with his story. There was a chance that some angry young teenager on the verge of becoming a skinhead would see Widner's suffering and think twice.
Maybe he would realize that, as Widner says now, "I wasn't on any great mission for the white race. I was just a thug."
They moved the day after the documentary — "Erasing Hate" — aired in June.
Widner's arms and torso are still extensively tattooed. He is in the process of inking over the "political" ones, like the Nazi lightning bolts. His face is clean and scar free, and he has a shock of thick black hair. With his thin glasses and studious expression, he looks nerdy, Julie jokes.
His neck and hands have suffered some pigment damage, he gets frequent migraine headaches and he has to stay out of the sun. But, he says, "it's a small price to pay for being human again."
The move took a financial toll. Julie had to pawn her wedding ring to buy groceries and pay the rent. But Widner has found some work — construction and tattoo jobs. He got his GED and they both plan to start courses at the local community college.
They say they feel safe. Several police officers and firefighters live nearby; the FBI has visited and the local police know their story.
Still they can't help but worry. It's one thing getting out of the white power movement as others have done, fading into obscurity. It's another to publicly denounce the violent world they once inhabited.
Bryon has constant nightmares about what injuries he might have inflicted — injuries he can only imagine because so often he was in a drunken stupor when he beat someone up. Did he blind someone? Did he paralyze someone? He doesn't know.
But there are moments of grace. After a recent screening of the documentary in California, a black woman embraced Widner in tears. "I forgive you," she cried.
They've thrown out everything to do with their racist past, including photographs of Widner and his crew posing at Nordic fests and of the white power conferences Julie used to attend. And yet there are reminders all around, and not just the remaining tattoos. Tyrson's name — inspired by the Norse god of justice, Tyr — troubles them for its connection to the racist brand of Odinism his father practiced with the Vinlanders. But how do they ask a 4-year-old to change his name to Eddie?
The child tugs at his daddy's Spiderman T-shirt, begging him to come play video games. "OK, buddy," Widner says. "Let's go shoot a few bad guys." With that, the man who once brandished his hate like a badge of honor scoops up his son and turns on his Xbox.
Widner plays the role of Captain America. The bad guys are Nazis.
___
Helen O'Neill, a New York-based national writer for The Associated Press, can be reached at features(at)ap.org.  @yahoonews on Twitter, become a fan on Facebook      Editors' Picks 

       
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Explore Related Content  1 - 4 of 5 prevnext  Reformed skinhead removes tattoosPlay Video Reformed skinhead removes tattoos
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Loni

   @ Melkor, U SFRJ je poznat slučaj izvesnog Topića, Slavonca iz sela kod Nove Gradište, pristalice nacističke Nemačke i NHD, koji je svom prvom sinu, rođenom 1949. dao ime Adolf, a mlađem Benito.
 
   Možeš misliti decu, raslu u postpartizanskoj Titovoj SFRJ sa imenima Adolf i Benito?
   Zamisli oca, koji je na tako nešto osudio sinove?

   U ovu priču retko ko bi poverovao, da jedan od sinova nije postao poznat roker (doduše sa nadimkom Dado).
Posle pada komunizma, počeo je ponovo da se poptpisuje celim imenom Adolf Dado Topić.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dado_Topi%C4%87

pokojni Steva

Još posle one Pesme evrovizije sa Slađanom Milošević, na 'turnejama' po EZ se reklamirao kao Adolf Topić, bilo opšte poznata stvar, tako da 'pad komunizma' nema nikakve veze s njegovim potpisom.
Jelte, jel' i kod vas petnaes' do pola dvanaes'?

scallop

Možda ima uspon nacizma? :-?
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

Meho Krljic

Kad smo već kod nacizma:

New York City cop imprisons college student without ID for two days 
Quote
Note to tourists visting New York: Don't be caught out without your ID, or you could be caught in the city's penal system for days, if the recent experience of 21-year-old college student Samantha Zucker is anything to go by.

Actually, Zucker barely qualifies as an out-of-towner, since she hails from the Westchester town of Ardsley. And the underlying charge that led to her tour in jail was a minor trespassing citation, dismissed by a presiding judge in no time.
But no matter: A vigilant NYPD officer deemed her a sufficient threat to public safety to have her handcuffed and jailed in two different cells across the length of Manhattan.

The whole ordeal began with a trip to Riverside Park, as Zucker recounts to New York Times columnist James Dwyer. Zucker is enrolled in a design program at Pittsburgh's Carnegie-Mellon University; together with 80 of her colleagues, she spent a long day on Oct. 21 scouting out prospective employment scenarios in New York's sprawling fashion industry. After pounding the pavement, she dropped off her bags at her West Harlem hotel. From there, she and fellow student Alex Fischer decided to stroll over to Riverside Park, to gaze out on the Hudson.
There was just one problem: The two park visitors arrived at around 3 a.m. on Oct. 22, and the park is officially closed to visitors as of 1 a.m. A police car pulled up, and the officers in it informed the two students of their trespass. Zucker and Fischer explained that they hadn't known of the park's curfew, and turned around to leave. By then, however, another NYPD car appeared, and the officer driving it announced he was citing them for trespassing, and demanded their IDs. Fischer produced his driver's license and was let go--but Zucker had left her identification back at the hotel, two blocks away. She apologized, and told the officer that she could have Fischer or another friend fetch it.
But no dice. "He said it was too late for that, I should have thought of it earlier," she told Dwyer. At that point, as Dwyer writes, the wheels of justice locked grimly into gear; Zucker was handcuffed and led into a surreal maze of detention:
For the next 36 hours, she was moved from a cell in the 26th Precinct station house on West 126th Street to central booking in Lower Manhattan and then — because one of the officers was ending his shift before Ms. Zucker could be photographed for her court appearance, and you didn't think he was going to take the subway uptown while his partner stayed with her at booking, did you? — she was brought back to Harlem.
It's not against the law, of course, to be out on New York's streets without identification--but the courts can detain people without identification in jail until their arraignment in lieu of issuing them a summons. As Zucker waited in her cell for her court appearance, she heard NYPD employees marvel that the arresting officer didn't permit her the opportunity to have a friend retrieve her ID. At another point, Zucker says, she heard two NYPD staffers say that the arresting officer--identified as Officer Durrell of the 26th District in Zucker's police records--had a "short fuse." When Zucker finally got her court appearance, the presiding judge dismissed her trespassing citation in less than a minute.
Durrell apparently worked off some tension by taunting his prisoner in her cell. "He was telling me that I needed to get a new boyfriend, that I should get a guy who takes me out to dinner," Ms. Zucker said. "He mocked me for being from Westchester." (For the record, Fischer is not Zucker's boyfriend.)
The officer also instructed Zucker--twice--to refrain from calling him a profane name that she did not in fact utter. "I said, 'Sir, I never used that word.' " Then again, projection is no crime--any more than being out in a park without an ID is.

scallop

Imaš šanse da dopreš do javnosti ako si Zucker. :evil:
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

Meho Krljic


Loni

Ja se ne sećam da je forsirao ime Adolf do pre neke godine.
Kao klinac zapamtio sam samo Dado Topić.


pokojni Steva

Jelte, jel' i kod vas petnaes' do pola dvanaes'?

angel011

We're all mad here.

scallop

Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

scallop

Pošto Meho ima druga posla ja ću da ponudim jedan link kako u recesiji mladi u SAD razmišljaju.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/17/business/economy/as-graduates-move-back-home-economy-feels-the-pain.html?_r=1&hp


Odnosno, kako o njihovoj štednji razmišljaju oni koji bi da od njih zarade.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

zakk

Ma da, pogane štediše, krcaju pare na gomilu umesto odma da ih troše...  :D Al potrošiće ih, pre ili kasnije.
Why shouldn't things be largely absurd, futile, and transitory? They are so, and we are so, and they and we go very well together.

scallop

Dobra strana je što si saznao o čemu se radi. Loša strana je što ne znamo kako se zamišlja balans između onih koji žele da opstanu i onih koji žive od njihovog propadanja. Pre par dana su razjašnjavali kako se ne isplati isplatiti hipotekarne dugove. Ako si "čist" odlaskom u penziju, kako ćeš se ponovo zadužiti, kad matori ne mogu dobiti garanciju za kredit, a za refinansiranje mogu. Neko opasno dobro živi od kamata na našu nesigurnost.


Ovih dana mi na TV govore o finansijskom poslovanju kroz kreditne aranžmane koje nazivaju - proizvodima. Jutros su mi objasnili da je finansijski sektor industrija. Sa druge strane, u doktrinama i konceptima koriste vojnu terminologiju. Misle li da su okončali rat, a da sad treba da nam utuve da su privreda? Znaju li kako to okončava ili misle da će preživeti?


Dolazite li večeras?
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

zakk

Ne dolazimo, javili bismo se... idemo na koncert nekih francuskinjica.
Why shouldn't things be largely absurd, futile, and transitory? They are so, and we are so, and they and we go very well together.

pokojni Steva

Jelte, jel' i kod vas petnaes' do pola dvanaes'?

Father Jape

Blijedi čovjek na tragu pervertita.
To je ta nezadrživa napaljenost mladosti.
Dušman u odsustvu Dušmana.