A Cunning Linguist (Džejpovo ćoše za sitnice jezikoslovne)

[tomat]

Misli na preradu uopšteno. Kao od njive do trpeze. Preoblikovanje.

jeste, na to sam mislio.

inače, protočno vreme je naš prevod za cycle time, odnosno vreme koje prođe od ulaska sirovine u proizvodnju, pa do izlaska gotovog proizvoda iz proizvodnje. mislim da je i Nonković kada je prevodio Šigea Šinga sa šveckog koristio taj termin, ali moraću da proverim. vidim da sada često umesto cycle time koriste throughput time, mada nisam siguran da su sinonimi u pitanju.

[Mica Milovanovic]

Jes' vala. I mi u građevinarstvu imamo nekoliko takvih bisera. Ušlo u upotrebu nekad u prošlosti, pa se ne mere izbaciti...
Na primer "vodostan"... Aj' ti pogodi šta znači, a da nisi u materiji...

[scallop]

Mića i ja smo malo zastareli, ali da li je moguće da je cycle time suma trajanja proizvodnih operacija, a da je throughput time vreme između nabavke i isporuke.


Da se nadovežem na Mićin "vodostan". Ja sam imao frku sa neprevodivim terminom koji se koristio u Bariču. "Monootpala kiselina" je bio fabrički izraz za otpadnu kiselinu iz prve faze nitriranja glicerina.

[tomat]

ja sad kada razmislim, ne znam koji bi bio adekvatniji prevod za cycle time. možda zato što je toliko odomaćen u struci.

edit: utrča Scallop. suma trajanja operacija bi bila processing time. dakle, kada bi se preoblikovanje i tražnja lepo jahali, cycle time bi bio jednak processing time-u, ako zanemarimo vreme potrebno da se proizvod premesti sa jedne operacije na drugu. throughput bi bilo vreme obrade+vreme čekanja posle obrade+vreme transporta+vreme čekanja u redu na narednu obradu, otprilike.

ovo za monootpalu kiselinu bih možda u nekom napadu ludila i mogao da zaključim šta je, ali nemam nikakvu ideju šta bi bio vodostan.

edit2: izvinjavam se na zabuni, protočno vreme bi bilo lead time, i to je otprilike ovo što je Scallop napisao za throughput time, a cycle time je vreme ciklusa, odnosno vreme da se određeni zadatak obavi od početka do kraja. dakle, izjednačavaju lead time i throughput time.

[scallop]

Eto, kako lepo ide. A, pretpostavljam da je "vodostan" stan čuvara vodotornja, odnosno crpne stanice u stalnom nadzoru. Taj tehnološki jezik je čudo.

[tomat]

ne, vodostan je infostan ako ti je stan u Beogradu na vodi.

[scallop]

Zajebavaj se ti, ali mi reci koji veliki evropski grad nema građanski pristup ne reci, nego rekama na kojima se nalazi. A Beograd ima industrijsku zonu na Dunavu i besmisleni železnički postroj za kraj XIX veka. Ako su mangupi našli ko će da finansira onda je to vrh. Inače, između Višnjice i Čukarice pristupa nema.

[tomat]

ma nemam ja ništa protiv izlaska na reku, naprotiv. meni samo smeta kako će taj prilaz izgledati, ne ide mi uz taj kraj, previše mi je nekako moderno.

[scallop]

Nadam se da će neko otvoriti topik na tu temu. Koliko je veliki projekat moglo bi se dugo po njemu drljati. Ne ovde.

[tomat]

slažem se, a kad sam već tu da priupitam još kako bi bilo najbolj prevesti trade-off?

[scallop]

Hajde da se, za promenu, predam. Pogledao sam i Google i iz mnogih značenja pomalo shvatam o čemu se radi. Ali se ne bih upuštao dalje.

[Alexdelarge]

Nadam se da će neko otvoriti topik na tu temu. Koliko je veliki projekat moglo bi se dugo po njemu drljati. Ne ovde.

http://www.znaksagite.com/diskusije/index.php/topic,13689.0.html

[дејан]

биљана ристић вам представља

One Woman, 17 British Accents - Anglophenia Ep 5

[Father Jape]

Evo da okačimo i još nekoliko sličnih:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8mzWkuOxz8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UgpfSp2t6k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dABo_DCIdpM

[Father Jape]

Usage masochism

[Father Jape]

Ko razume, shvatiće:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzprLDmdRlc

[Father Jape]

Da okačim i ovde, Geoffrey Pullum o jeziku majmuna u Dawn of the Planet of the Apes:

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=13830

[Father Jape]

Potražih poreklo i značenje imena Reuel (as in John Ronald Reuel).

Ispostavlja se da je u pitanju biblijsko ime, ,,božji prijatelj", i dalje aktuelno na hebrejskom, gde se koristi trosložni izgovor /ʁə.u.ˈel/. U engleskom je izgovor dvosložan i varira između /ˈruːəl/ i /ruːˈel/. U srpskom prevodu Biblije svi likovi toga imena se zovu Raguilo.

S obzirom na sve to, najopravdanija srpska adaptacija bila bi Ruel. Odakle našima tačno Rejel, ostaje misterija.

[tomat]

ne znam da li je odgovarajući topik, ali nije red ni da otvaram novi.

elem, opet mi treba pomoć oko prevoda. kako bi na srpski moglo da se prevede Contingency theory ili Contingency approach?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingency_theory

fala i uzdravlje!

edit: ima li u tim rečnicima stranih reči i izraza što ih imate pojam kontingentni ili kontingencija?

[Father Jape]

Klajn i Šipka:

[mac]

Po nemačkom izrazu (Situativer Ansatz) čini se da "situacioni pristup" lepo radi posao.

[tomat]

da, zaboravio sam na situacioni pristup. u svakom slučaju, čini mi se da su oba prevoda prihvatljiva, sada se samo treba odlučiti za jedan.

hvala!

[Father Jape]

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=14611

"Alison Flood at Guardian Books extracts a famous author's top linguistic peeves from an interview about how to teach writing..."

[Father Jape]

Ursula Le Gvin, Hemingvej, dužina rečenice; ne propustite:

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=15282

[Meho Krljic]

Where Did Soul-Sucking Office-Speak Come From?

[Father Jape]

http://www.rts.rs/page/blog/sr/kultura/postList/121/%D0%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%92%D0%B5+%D0%88%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%9B

Preporučujem sve postove, ali apropo akcenata i negde na forumu već spominjane teLEviiizije itsl. ova dva:
http://www.rts.rs/page/blog/sr/kultura/post/121/%D0%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%92%D0%B5+%D0%88%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%9B/1495/%D0%90%D0%BA%D1%86%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8+%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC%D0%B8.html
http://www.rts.rs/page/blog/sr/kultura/post/121/%D0%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%92%D0%B5+%D0%88%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%9B/1497/%D0%88%D0%BE%D1%88+%D0%B0%D0%BA%D1%86%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%85+%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC%D0%B0.html

[Mme Chauchat]

Онда уздахнем, разменим неколико снуждених погледа са студијом Ред речи у реченици Љубомира Поповића. Ја њој: ,,Куку", она мени: ,,Авај".

Ovo je lepo i pametno napisano, hvala, Jape!

[tomat]

of-topik: treba mi neko ne zna japanski, da protumači neke znake. imam prevod, konsultovao sam i gugl.translejt, ali mi treba dublja analiza, pa ako znate nekog... može i na PM, da ne gušimo ovaj topik.

[Father Jape]

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/books-and-arts/the-art-translation

[Father Jape]

Podeliću i ovde ovu lepu pesmu:

Robert Graves - To Juan at the Winter Solstice

[Father Jape]

,,Вероватно нема грђег него кад вас Правопис наведе на зло. Можда у најнеобичније такве инциденте спада онај када је младалачка забава, каквих ће ових дана бити, постала ништа друго до тамнопута водена кока!"

Novogodišnja žurka

[Father Jape]

http://public.oed.com/resources/the-oed-in-two-minutes/

[Ghoul]

da li si već ovde objašnjavao kako je i zašto prezime MENZIES postalo u izgovoru - MINGAS, MENGES i sl?

[Father Jape]

Ne, ali evo Vikipedije:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menzies

Ti keltski jezici i njihov interplej s engleskim.

[Meho Krljic]

Uol strit džrnal protiv FadrDžejpa:


There Is No 'Proper English'

[Meho Krljic]

U duhu gornjeg teksta valja podsetiti na ovaj zabavni sajt i njegov prevodilački softver:

http://www.gizoogle.net/tranzizzle.php

[Father Jape]

Kako misliš ,,protiv"? Sve što piše u ovom članku te uče bilo gde u civilizovanom svetu u uvodnom kursu u lingvistiku.

Ali u načelu, i u anglofonom svetu, presporo* sve to osmozom silazi niz naše kule od bjelokosti, tako da svaki ovakav napor u tome pravcu treba svesrdno pozdraviti!


Koga interesuje može da nastavi u za nijansu akademskijem ključu recimo ovde:

Peter Trudgill, "Standard English: What It Isn't"
http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/dick/SEtrudgill.htm

Geoffrey K. Pullum, "Ideology, Power and Linguistic Theory"
http://people.ucsc.edu/~pullum/MLA2004.pdf

Takođe, toplo preporučujem knjigu Dejvida Kristala, The Fight for English: How Language Pundits Ate, Shot, and Left
http://www.amazon.com/The-Fight-English-Language-Pundits/dp/019920764X



*Kako Pulum veli u članku koga linkovah, "there are few signs of any knowledge about grammar dating from after 1900 having become known to a broad cross-section of the general public or having had an impact on education".

[Meho Krljic]

Ma, ja to više u smislu da se tebi ovde obraćamo da saznamo šta je "proper" ingliš kada smo u nedoumici.

[Father Jape]

Ja sam mislio da mi se uglavnom obraćate oko toga kako bi šta Tvrtko Prćić transkribovao pri prenošenju u srpski.

[Mme Chauchat]

A ja sam mislila da se uglavnom tim povodom ti obraćaš nama...

[Father Jape]

Touché! <3

[Meho Krljic]

Speaking a second language may change how you see the world

Where did the thief go? You might get a more accurate answer if you ask the question in German. How did she get away? Now you might want to switch to English. Speakers of the two languages put different emphasis on actions and their consequences, influencing the way they think about the world, according to a new study. The work also finds that bilinguals may get the best of both worldviews, as their thinking can be more flexible.
Cognitive scientists have debated whether your native language shapes how you think since the 1940s. The idea has seen a revival in recent decades, as a growing number of studies suggested that language can prompt speakers to pay attention to certain features of the world. Russian speakers are faster to distinguish shades of blue than English speakers, for example. And Japanese speakers tend to group objects by material rather than shape, whereas Koreans focus on how tightly objects fit together. Still, skeptics argue that such results are laboratory artifacts, or at best reflect cultural differences between speakers that are unrelated to language.
In the new study, researchers turned to people who speak multiple languages. By studying bilinguals, "we're taking that classic debate and turning it on its head," says psycholinguist Panos Athanasopoulos of Lancaster University in the United Kingdom. Rather than ask whether speakers of different languages have different minds, he says, "we ask, 'Can two different minds exist within one person?' "
Athanasopoulos and colleagues were interested in a particular difference in how English and German speakers treat events. English has a grammatical toolkit for situating actions in time: "I was sailing to Bermuda and I saw Elvis" is different from "I sailed to Bermuda and I saw Elvis." German doesn't have this feature. As a result, German speakers tend to specify the beginnings, middles, and ends of events, but English speakers often leave out the endpoints and focus in on the action. Looking at the same scene, for example, German speakers might say, "A man leaves the house and walks to the store," whereas an English speaker would just say, "A man is walking."
This linguistic difference seems to influence how speakers of the two languages view events, according to the new study. Athanasopoulos and colleagues asked 15 native speakers of each language to watch a series of video clips that showed people walking, biking, running, or driving. In each set of three videos, the researchers asked subjects to decide whether a scene with an ambiguous goal (a woman walks down a road toward a parked car) was more similar to a clearly goal-oriented scene (a woman walks into a building) or a scene with no goal (a woman walks down a country lane). German speakers matched ambiguous scenes with goal-oriented scenes about 40% of the time on average, compared with 25% among English speakers. This difference implies that German speakers are more likely to focus on possible outcomes of people's actions, but English speakers pay more attention to the action itself.
Bilingual speakers, meanwhile, seemed to switch between these perspectives based on the language most active in their minds. The researchers found that 15 Germans fluent in English were just as goal-focused as any other native speaker when tested in German in their home country. But a similar group of 15 German-English bilinguals tested in English in the United Kingdom were just as action-focused as native English speakers. This change could also be seen as an effect of culture, but a second experiment showed that bilinguals can also switch perspectives as fast as they can switch languages.
In another group of 30 German-English bilinguals, the researchers kept one language busy during the video-matching task by making participants repeat strings of numbers out loud in either English or German. Distracting one language seemed to automatically bring the influence of the other language to the fore. When researchers "blocked" English, subjects acted like typical Germans and saw ambiguous videos as more goal-oriented. With German blocked, bilingual subjects acted like English speakers and matched ambiguous and open-ended scenes. When the researchers surprised subjects by switching the language of the distracting numbers halfway through the experiment, the subjects' focus on goals versus process switched right along with it.
The results suggest that a second language can play an important unconscious role in framing perception, the authors conclude online this month in Psychological Science. "By having another language, you have an alternative vision of the world," Athanasopoulos says. "You can listen to music from only one speaker, or you can listen in stereo ... It's the same with language."
"This is an important advance," says cognitive scientist Phillip Wolff of Emory University in Atlanta who wasn't connected to the study. "If you're a bilingual speaker, you're able to entertain different perspectives and go back and forth," he says. "That really hasn't been shown before."
But researchers who doubt that language plays a central role in thinking are likely to remain skeptical. The artificial laboratory setting may make people rely on language more than they normally would, says cognitive psychologist Barbara Malt of Lehigh University in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. "In a real-world situation, I could find reasons to pay attention to the continuity of an action and other reasons where I would pay attention to the endpoint," she says. "Nothing says I have to be a bilingual to do that ... It doesn't mean language is the lens through which I see the world."

[Father Jape]

Pošto vidim da se šuška o nastavku Dosijea X, da se osvrnem na prezime glumca koji igra Moldera, da ne kažem Maldera.

Daklem, ja sam isprva mislio da Duchovny pripada leksičkom setu LOT, tj. da je RP /duˈkɒvni/ odnosno GA /duˈkɑːvni/, što bi se pretočilo u naše Дуковни. Međutim, ispostavlja se da pripada setu STRUT, tj. da je, tako ga izgovaraju dosledno po svim intervjuima, /duˈkʌvni/ (naglašeni slog je kao u rečima cover, covet, coven), što će reći Дукавни ( tj.  Дукȁвни ili Дукàвни).

[mac]

On sam možda ima drugačije mišljenje o tome kako se njegovo prezime akcentuje.

[Father Jape]

Da malo bampujem temu, nešto o istoriji reči "obnoxious" u engleskom:

http://languagehat.com/obnoxious/

[Mme Chauchat]

Kad je reč o ovakvom pomeranju značenja: da li je neko nekad negde pisao o meni omraženoj promeni značenja reči "prijemčiv" iz "koji lako shvata/podložan utiscima" u "pristupačan, lako shvatljiv/pamtljiv"? Kad je to otprilike počelo? (Moguće da sam nekad već pitala, ne zameri izlapeloj babi.)

[Father Jape]

Hm, i meni je to kroz maglu poznato, ali to je to... Najbliže OED-u što mi imamo je valjda onaj veliki rečnik SANU, ali njemu nemam pristup. Možda bi se tu moglo neći nešto više o tajmfrejmu semantičkog otplova.

Od primera u srpskom ja se kao upečatljivih sećam "najaviti" i "izgledati", koji su u Vukovo doba značili samo "sakupiti stoku" i "željno iščekivati nešto ili nekoga".

[Mme Chauchat]

Članak da zagreje svako deskriptivističko srce: http://pescanik.net/redu-ne-trebaju-organi-reda/

[Albedo 0]

Najaviti značilo ''sakupiti stoku''? Epohalno!





a čuo sam i rečenicu ''Nije izgledno'', što upućuje na ''kvalitetnu'' pojavu nečega ili nekoga, dobro obučena osoba, dobro opremljen stan


dok je u stvari sasvim logičnije da ''izgledno'' podrazumijeva neko iščekivanje, kao što je ranije i bilo

[Dybuk]

Povodom teksta: ovo mi je zaparalo 'usi'. Mozda sitnicarim, ali...

Ja ih osobno sve i koristim (naravno, u različitim situacijama), a da pritom nikada nisam živeo ni u Šumadiji, ni u Vojvodini, ni u Hercegovini, ni u užičkom kraju.

Zar ne bi ovde trebalo da stoji 'licno'? A i pored toga, nije li 'ja, licno' pleonazam @Jape?

@Bato, da, 'javiti stoku', pustiti na ispasu, ja mislim, ili nesto tog tipa 

Ovo 'nije izgledno' razumem kao 'malo verovatno' (da ce se desiti).