ZNAK SAGITE — više od fantastike — edicija, časopis, knjižara...

QuoteBy MAGGIE MICHAEL and SARAH EL DEEB, Associated Press Maggie Michael And Sarah El Deeb, Associated Press – Tue Feb 22, 9:43 pm ET
CAIRO – A defiant Moammar Gadhafi vowed to fight to his "last drop of blood" and roared at supporters to strike back against Libyan protesters to defend his embattled regime Tuesday, signaling an escalation of the crackdown that has thrown the capital into scenes of mayhem, wild shooting and bodies in the streets.

The speech by the Libyan leader — who shouted and pounded his fists on the podium — was an all-out call for his backers to impose control over the capital and take back other cities. After a week of upheaval, protesters backed by defecting army units have claimed control over almost the entire eastern half of Libya's 1,000-mile (1,600-kilometer) Mediterranean coast, including several oil-producing areas.

"You men and women who love Gadhafi ... get out of your homes and fill the streets," he said. "Leave your homes and attack them in their lairs."

Celebratory gunfire by Gadhafi supporters rang out in the capital of Tripoli after the leader's speech, while in protester-held Benghazi, Libya's second-largest city, people threw shoes at a screen showing his address, venting their contempt.

State TV showed a crowd of Gadhafi supporters in Tripoli's Green Square, raising his portrait and waving flags as they swayed to music after the address. Residents contacted by The Associated Press said no anti-government protesters ventured out of their homes after dark, and gun-toting guards manned checkpoints with occasional bursts of gunfire heard throughout the city.

International alarm rose over the crisis, which sent oil prices soaring to the highest level in more than two years on Tuesday and sparked a scramble by European and other countries to get their citizens out of the North African nation. The U.N. Security Council held an emergency meeting that ended with a statement condemning the crackdown, expressing "grave concern" and calling for an "immediate end to the violence" and steps to address the legitimate demands of the Libyan people.

Germany Chancellor Angela Merkel called Gadhafi's speech "very, very appalling," saying it "amounted to him declaring war on his own people." Libya's own deputy ambassador at the U.N., who now calls for Gadhafi's ouster, has urged the world body to enforce a no-fly zone over the country to protect protesters.

"This violence is completely unacceptable," added Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Gadhafi's retaliation has already been the harshest in the Arab world to the wave of anti-government protests sweeping the Middle East. Nearly 300 people have been killed, according to a partial count by the New York-based Human Rights Watch.

In two nights of bloodshed, Tripoli residents described a rampage by pro-Gadhafi militiamen — a mix of Libyans and foreign mercenaries — who shot on sight anyone found in the streets and opened fire from speeding vehicles at people watching from windows of their homes.

In a sign of the extent of the breakdown in Gadhafi's regime, one of his closest associates, Abdel Fattah Younis, his interior minister and commander of the powerful Thunderbolt commando brigade, announced in Benghazi that he was defecting and other armed forces should join the revolt.

"I gave up all my posts in response to the February 17 Revolution and my conviction that it has just demands," Younis, who was among the army officers who joined Gadhafi in his 1969 coup, told Al-Jazeera, referring to the date of the start of the protests.

The performance by Gadhafi on state TV Tuesday night went far beyond even the bizarre, volatile style he has been notorious for during nearly 42 years in power. Swathed in brown robes and a turban, wearing reflective sunglasses, he at times screamed, his voice breaking, and shook his fists — then switched to reading glasses to read from a green-covered law book, losing his train of thought before launching into a new round of shouting.

He spoke from behind a podium in the entrance of his bombed-out Tripoli residence hit by U.S. airstrikes in the 1980s and left unrepaired as a symbol of defiance.

At times the camera panned back to show the outside of the building and its towering monument of a gold-colored fist crushing an American fighter jet. But the view also gave a bizarre image of Gadhafi, waving his arms wildly alone in a broken-down lobby with no audience, surrounded by torn tiles dangling from the ceiling, shattered concrete pillars and bare plumbing pipes.

"Libya wants glory, Libya wants to be at the pinnacle, at the pinnacle of the world," he proclaimed, pounding his fist on the podium. "I am a fighter, a revolutionary from tents. ... I will die as a martyr at the end," he said, vowing to fight "to my last drop of blood."

Gadhafi portrayed the protesters as misguided youths, who had been given drugs and money by a "small, sick group" to attack police and government buildings. He said the uprising was fomented by "bearded men" — a reference to Islamic fundamentalists — and Libyans living abroad.

He urged supporters to take to the streets to attack demonstrators, saying police would not interfere.

"Go out and fight them," he added, urging youth to form local committees across the country "for the defense of the revolution and the defense of Gadhafi."

"Forward, forward, forward!" he barked at the speech's conclusion, pumping both fists in the air as he stormed away from the podium. He was kissed by about a dozen supporters, some in security force uniforms. Then he climbed into a golf cart-like vehicle and puttered away.

In New York, Libya's deputy U.N. ambassador Ibrahim Dabbashi, who has called for Gadhafi to step down, said he had received information that Gadhafi's collaborators have started "attacking people in all the cities in western Libya." He said those being attacked are unarmed. He said Gadhafi was using foreign mercenaries to fight protesters.

"I think the genocide has started now in Libya," Dabbashi said. "The Gadhafi statement was just code for his collaborators to start the genocide against the Libyan people. It just started a few hours ago. I hope the information I get is not accurate but if it is, it will be a real genocide."

Libyans were critical of what they saw as the lack of a forceful international response.

Dabbashi said the Security Council statement was "not strong enough" but was "a good step to stopping the bloodshed."

Gadhafi's call for a popular attack on protesters reflected the deeply unstable nature of the system he has created over his rule — the longest of any current Arab leader. He has long kept his military and other security forces relatively weak, fearing a challenge to his rule and uncertain of loyalties in a population of multiple tribal allegiances.

So far, the crackdown has been waged chiefly by militias and so-called "revolutionary committees," made up of Libyans and foreign fighters, many hired from other African nations.

Many army units in the east appear to have sided with protesters, and other more institutional parts of his regime have weakened. A string of ambassadors abroad have defected, as has the justice minister.

Protesters claim to control a string of cities, from the Egyptian border in the east — where guards at the crossing fled — to the city of Ajdabiya, about 450 miles (725 kilometers) farther west along the Mediterranean coast, said Tawfiq al-Shahbi, a protest organizer in the eastern city of Tobruk.

Ajdabiya is a key city near the oil fields of central and eastern Libya. Protesters and local tribesmen were protecting several of the fields and facilities around the city, said one resident, Ahmed al-Zawi.

Residents are also guarding one of Libya's main oil export ports, Zuweita, and the pipelines feeding into it, he said. The pipelines are off and several tankers that had been waiting in the port to load left empty, said al-Zawi, who said he visited Zuweita on Tuesday morning.

The first major protests to hit an OPEC country — and major supplier to Europe — sent oil prices to $95.42 per barrel. Only a small amount of Libya's oil production appeared to have been affected, though analysts fear that revolts will spread to OPEC heavyweights like Iran. Libya holds the most oil reserves in Africa.

Two oil companies on Tuesday suspended production in the country: Italy's Eni — the biggest energy producer in Libya, producing about a quarter of its exports — and Spain's Repsol-YPF, which produced 34,777 barrels in the country last year, about 3.8 percent of national output. A string of international oil companies have begun evacuating their expatriate workers or their families.

In the eastern cities of Tobruk and Benghazi, protesters raised the pre-Gadhafi flag of Libya's monarchy on public buildings. Protesters over the weekend overran police stations and security headquarters in Benghazi, taking control of the streets.

In Benghazi, celebratory residents organized themselves into units to protect property and manage traffic after pro-Gadhafi forces fled, said Farag al-Warfali, a banker. A committee was set up to organize and distribute the use of weapons confiscated from government warehouses, recruiting policemen and officers to carry the weapons for city protection, fearing a new attack.

"These are his dying words. He is a criminal and is ready to do anything. But we are ready for him," al-Warfali said of Gadhafi's speech. "Besides, most of his officers have deserted him anyway. He only has the mercenaries left."

Since Sunday, the fiercest fighting has been in Tripoli, the center of Gadhafi's rule.

At least 62 people were killed in violence in the capital since Sunday, according to the New York-based Human Rights Watch, but it cautioned that that figure came from only two hospitals. That comes on top of at least 233 people killed across the so far in the uprising, counted by the group from hospitals around the country.

Tripoli residents on Tuesday were recovering from the militia rampage through multiple neighborhoods that began the night before and lasted until dawn. Some resident ventured out to find stores open for food, wary of militia attacks.

One man in his 50s said residents of his neighborhood were piling up roadblocks of concrete, bricks and wood to try to slow attackers. He said he had seen several streets with funeral tents mourning the dead.

The night before, he had spent barricaded in his home, blankets over the windows — sitting with a kitchen knife on the table in front of him — as militiamen opened fire in nearby districts.

Buses unloaded militia fighters in several locations, he said. Others sped in vehicles with guns mounted on the top, opening fire, including at people watching from windows. "I know of two different families, one family had a 4-year-old who was shot and killed on a balcony in the eastern part of the city, and another lady on the balcony was shot in the head," he said.

He, like other residents, contacted by The Associated Press, spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of retaliation.

One of the heaviest battlegrounds was the impoverished, densely populated district of Fashloum. There, militiamen shot any "moving human being" with live ammunition, including ambulances, so wounded were left in the streets to die, one resident said.

He said that as he fled the neighborhood Monday night, he ran across a group of militiamen, including foreign fighters. "The Libyans (among them) warned me to leave and showed me bodies of the dead and told me: `We were given orders to shoot anybody who moves in the place,'" said the resident.

He and other residents described dozens of bodies still in the street at daybreak Tuesday.

The head of the U.N. human rights agency, Navi Pillay, called for an investigation, saying widespread and systematic attacks against civilians "may amount to crimes against humanity."

In the early hours of Wednesday, several Libyan military officers held a news conference with Libyan journalists broadcast on state television in what they described as an effort to set the record straight on a number of issues.

Lt. General Jibril al-Qadiki, an air force pilot, denied reports of airstrikes on civilians and said there had been strikes but only on ammunition warehouses after "rebels" used them. He named four storage area in eastern Libya in desert areas, and insisted there were no people in those areas.

He also accused western countries, including the U.S., of providing logistics to the protesters aiming to "destroy Libya."

___

Associated Press writers Hamza Hendawi in Cairo; Edith M. Lederer at the United Nations; Colleen Barry in Milan, Italy; Matthew Lee in Washington; John Heilprin in Geneva; and Barbara Whitaker in New York contributed to this report.

Quote from: scallop on 23-02-2011, 11:11:33
Jel' si ovaj donji deo sam skuckao? Ako jesi imao bih neke primedbe.

QuoteMuammar Gaddafi personally ordered the Lockerbie bombing that killed 270 people in 1988, Libya's former justice minister has claimed. Skip related content


Swedish newspaper Expressen said Mustafa Abdel-Jalil told its correspondent in Libya: "I have proof that Gaddafi gave the order about Lockerbie."

The comments were translated from Arabic to Swedish.

Mr Abdel-Jalil stepped down as justice minister in protest against the violence against anti-government demonstrations.

Mr Abdel-Jalil did not describe the proof allegedly in his possession.

He told Expressen that Colonel Gaddafi gave the order to Abdel Baset al-Megrahi, the only man convicted in the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, which killed all 259 people on board and 11 on the ground.

"To hide it, he (Gaddafi) did everything in his power to get al-Megrahi back from Scotland," Mr Abdel-Jalil said.

Megrahi was granted a compassionate release from a Scottish prison in August 2009 on the grounds that he was suffering from prostate cancer and would die soon.

He is still alive.

The Expressen said its reporter, Kassem Hamade, interviewed the ex-justice minister at "a local parliament in a large city in Libya".

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 23-02-2011, 18:55:02
Zanimljivo je da zapadni mediji ne umeju da se dogovore kako da transkribuju Gadafijevo ime: Gadhafi, Ghadafi, Gaddafi...

QuoteThe Arab revolution is circling around the region's oil, and there's talk of nationalizing or strengthening state control of industries in Egypt. So far, the Arab revolt has been mostly non-ideological. But at stake is the incalculable wealth of a long-suppressed region.

With Bahrain, the anchor of the US military presence in the gulf, wobbling, and with the seeds of revolt planted in Kuwait, the revolt in Libya could provoke a burst of Arab nationalism aimed at taking control of the Middle East oil resources. With Tripoli, Libya's capital, in flames and Benghazi and most of Libya's eastern region already in rebel hands, there are reports that the holdings of ENI and other oil firms operating in Libya might be nationalized by a new government.

Reports Bloomberg: "Certainly all the oil majors will be shaking if the new leaders decide to nationalize everything."


Oil prices have jumped sharply since the Libyan revolt began, and ENI is scared silly.

Reports CNN:

"Libya sits atop large reserves of oil and gas that have yet to be developed. Libya holds around 44 billion barrels of oil reserves—the largest in Africa—according to Oil and Gas Journal, an industry publication."

ENI, which gets one-seventh of its oil from Libya, and another big chunk from nearly Egypt, is evacuating its personnel, and its stock plummeted:

"Eni said yesterday it has already begun to evacuate non-essential staff and dependants. The company, which gets another 13 percent of its production from Egypt and has smaller operations in Tunisia and Yemen, has said it continues to operate in all the countries affected by political unrest."

BP, too, is evacuating its oil workers from Libya.

Libya produced about 1.6 million barrels of oil in January, roughly two-thirds of Iraq's total output and one-fifth of Saudi Arabia's. The country supplies about 10 percent of Europe's oil supplies, and Italy's ENI oil company is vastly dependent on Libya.

Bahrain, which doesn't produce much oil now, is a lynchpin of the Persian Gulf's Arab states, and the gateway to Saudi Arabia. The Saudis, who've pledged to produce more oil to make up any shortfall from the Arab-wide turmoil, have threatened to use any and all means to shore up Bahrain's regime. But increasingly Saudi Arabia is surrounded, by unrest in Egypt, Yemen, Bahrain, Djibouti, and possibly—starting on March 8—in Kuwait. In addition, there's trouble in Jordan, and Saudi Arabia isn't on good terms with Iraq.

For both Iranian and Arab nationalists, control of oil has been the touchstone for revolutionary politics. Historically, the marriage of Arab countries with people but no oil, such as Egypt, Syria and Jordan, and countries with oil but few people, such as Libya, Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Kuwait, has been a long-standing goal of Arab nationalists going back to President Nasser of Egypt. Leaders who've challenged the domination of Middle East oil by the West have been overthrown or isolated, from Mohammad Mossadegh in Iran in 1953 to Saddam Hussein's vital takeover of Iraqi oil in 1972. After the US invasion of Iraq, when the United States briefly toyed with the idea of privatizing Iraq's vast oil wealth, Iraqi nationalism prevailed, resoundingly defeating any attempt by Western and foreign companies to seize Iraq's oil production, and since then Iraq's successive governments have limited the intrusion of foreign companies into Iraq's oil industry.

So far, the Arab revolt is one without ideology. By all accounts, it's been a revolution for freedom, for dignity, for democracy. How, exactly, that plays out now is unclear. In Egypt, for instance, there's a growing split among the opposition movement, pitting pro-labor youth activists against moderate, reform-minded leaders who are willing, it seems, to make overly broad compromises with the establishment. And a troubling aspect of the events in Egypt is that there is pressure on the Egyptian government, including the military, to privatize state-owned enterprises. Last week, in a major piece on economic policy in Egypt, the New York Times reported that the military is divided over what to do about state-owned businesses. And it said:

"Already there are signs that the military is purging from the cabinet and ruling party advocates of market-oriented economic changes, like selling off state-owned companies and reducing barriers to trade."

Now, it's true that the military in Egypt has created a vast, corrupt network of patronage, military-owned businesses, and a military-industrial complex that sustains the generals' lavish lifestyle. Eliminating the military's privileges, and seizing the assets of its elite, ought to be a key goal of the revolution. But that's not the same thing as dismantling Egypt's nationalized industries and adopting a free-market, neoconservative economic doctrine. (In fact, the neocons who've been clamoring for revolution in the Middle East often see it in terms of privatizing state-owned companies, especially oil, telecommunications and banking.)

The Times expressed concern over moves by the post-Mubarak military authorities to purge or arrest super-wealthy Egyptian businessmen:

"The military-led government also struck at advocates of economic openness, including the former finance minister Youssef Boutros-Ghali, who was forced from his job, and the former trade minister Rachid Mohamed Rachid, whose assets were frozen under allegations of corruption. Both are highly regarded internationally and had not been previously accused of corruption."

And it quoted Rachid bemoaning the talk of nationalization: "Now there are a lot of voices from the past talking about nationalization—'Why do we need a private sector?' "

Swirling around the Arab revolt, thus, are huge questions about whether the new Arab world will finally get control of its economic power, or once again cede that control to the United States and to its former colonial masters in Europe.

Robert Dreyfuss
February 22, 2011 

QuoteBy PAUL SCHEMM and MAGGIE MICHAEL, Associated Press Paul Schemm And Maggie Michael, Associated Press – 2 hrs 11 mins ago
BENGHAZI, Libya – The scope of Moammar Gadhafi's control was whittled away Wednesday as major Libyan cities and towns closer to the capital fell to the rebellion against his rule. In the east, now all but broken away, the opposition vowed to "liberate" Tripoli, where the Libyan leader is holed up with a force of militiamen roaming the streets and tanks guarding the outskirts.

In a further sign of Gadhafi's faltering hold, two air force pilots — one from the leader's own tribe — parachuted out of their warplane and let it crash into the eastern Libyan desert rather than follow orders to bomb an opposition-held city.

International momentum was building for action to punish Gadhafi's regime for the bloody crackdown it has unleashed against the uprising that began Feb. 15.

President Barack Obama said the suffering and bloodshed in Libya "is outrageous and it is unacceptable," and he directed his administration to prepare a full range of options, including possible sanctions that could freeze the assets and ban travel to the U.S. by Libyan officials.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy raised the possibility of the European Union cutting off economic ties.

Another proposal gaining some traction was for the United Nations to declare a no-fly zone over Libya to prevent it using warplanes to hit protesters. U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay said that if reports of such strikes are confirmed, "there's an immediate need for that level of protection."

Italy's Foreign Minister Franco Frattini said estimates of some 1,000 people killed in the violence in Libya were "credible," although he stressed information about casualties was incomplete. The New York-based Human Rights Watch has put the death toll at nearly 300, according to a partial count.

In Tripoli, Gadhafi's stronghold, protest organizers called for new rallies Thursday and Friday, raising the potential for a more bloody confrontation.

Militiamen and Gadhafi supporters — a mix of Libyans and foreign African fighters bused in — roamed the capital's main streets, called up Tuesday night by the Libyan leader in a fist-pounding speech in which he vowed to fight to the death. The gunmen fired weapons in the air, chanting "Long live Gadhafi," and waved green flags. With a steady rain, streets were largely empty, residents said.

In many neighborhoods, residents set up watch groups to keep militiamen out, barricading streets with concrete blocks, metal and rocks, and searching those trying to enter, a Tripoli activist said.

Gadhafi's residence at Tripoli's Aziziya Gates was guarded by loyalists along with a line of armed militiamen in vehicles, some masked, he said. The radio station building downtown was also heavily fortified. In one western neighborhood, security forces stormed several homes and arrested three or four people, a witness said, while tanks were deployed on the eastern outskirts, witnesses in at least one neighborhood said.

"Mercenaries are everywhere with weapons. You can't open a window or door. Snipers hunt people," said another resident, who said she had spent the night in her home awake hearing gunfire outside. "We are under siege, at the mercy of a man who is not a Muslim."

But below the surface, protesters were organizing, said the activist. At night, they fan out and spray-paint anti-Gadhafi graffiti or set fires near police stations, chanting, "The people want the ouster of the regime," before running at the approach of militiamen, he said. The Tripoli residents, like other witnesses around the country, spoke on condition of anonymity because of fear of retaliation.

In opposition-controlled Benghazi, the eastern city where the uprising began, residents held a mass rally outside the city's main courthouse, vowing to support protests in the capital, said Farag al-Warfali, a banker. They also called a one-day fast in solidarity with them. Afterward, young men went into the courthouse to register to obtain weapons, which had been looted from police stations and military bases and then turned over to the city's new rulers, he said.

The idea is to "take their weapons and march toward Tripoli," al-Warfali said, although Benghazi lies 580 miles (940 kilometers) east of the capital, and territory still loyal to Gadhafi lies between them.

There were similar calls in Misrata — several hours' drive from Tripoli, the closest major city to the capital to fall to anti-government forces. A mosque called residents to come to "jihad," or holy war, in support of the anti-Gadhafi camp, said one resident, Iman.

"We are going to join forces with our brothers in Tripoli," she said.

The extent of Gadhafi's control over the country he has ruled for 41 years had been reduced to the western coastal region around Tripoli, the deserts to the south and parts of the center.

After Gadhafi's speech Tuesday night, militiamen flooded into Sabratha, a town west of Tripoli famed for nearby ancient Roman ruins, and battled government opponents who had taken over, said one resident. Around 5,000 militiamen from neighboring towns, backed by army and police units, clashed with the rival group and drove them from the streets, he said.

But his territory was being eroded.

The opposition said Wednesday it had taken over Misrata, Libya's third-largest city.

Residents honked horns in celebration and raised the pre-Gadhafi flags of the Libyan monarchy after several days of fighting that drove militiamen from the city, about 120 miles (200 kilometers) east of Tripoli, said Faraj al-Misrati, a local doctor. He said six people had been killed and 200 wounded in clashes that began Feb. 18.

Residents had formed committees to clean the streets, protect the city and treat the wounded, he said. "The solidarity among the people here is amazing, even the disabled are helping out."

An audio statement posted on the Internet reportedly from armed forces officers in Misrata proclaimed "our total support" for the anti-Gadhafi movement.

New videos posted by Libya's opposition on Facebook also showed scores of anti-government protesters raising the pre-Gadhafi flag on a building in Zawiya, 30 miles (50 kilometers) west of Tripoli. The city is located near a key oil port and refineries on the Mediterranean. The footage couldn't be independently confirmed.

Government opponents were also in control in Zwara, a town about 30 miles (50 kilometers) from the Tunisian border in the west, after local army units sided with them and police fled, said one resident, a 25-year-old unemployed university graduate. "This man (Gadhafi) has reached the point that he's saying he will bring armies from Africa. That means he is isolated," he said.

Gadhafi long kept his army weak and divided for fear of challenge, so in the fierce crackdown his regime has waged on the uprising, he has relied on militia groups, beefed up by fighters hired abroad. Meanwhile, army units in many places have sided with the rebellion.

On Wednesday, two air force pilots jumped from parachutes from their Russian-made Sukhoi fighter jet and let it crash, rather than carry out orders to bomb opposition-held Benghazi, Libya's second-largest city, the website Qureyna reported, citing an unidentified officer in the air force control room.

One of the pilots — identified by the report as Ali Omar Gadhafi — was from Gadhafi's tribe, the Gadhadhfa, said Farag al-Maghrabi, who saw the pilots and the wreckage of the jet, which crashed in the desert outside the key oil port of Breqa, about 440 miles (710 kilometers) east of Tripoli.

The anti-Gadhafi forces and the mutinous army units that have joined them were consolidating their hold on nearly the entire eastern half of the 1,000-mile Mediterranean coastline, stretching from the Egyptian border to Ajdabiya, about 480 miles (800 kilometers) east of Tripoli, encroaching on key oil fields around the Gulf of Sidra.

Across their territory, they have been setting up their own administrations. In many places, committees organized by residents, tribes and mutinous army officers were governing, often collecting weapons looted from pro-Gadhafi troops to prevent chaos.

"There is now an operating room for the militaries of all the liberated cities and they are trying to convince the others to join them," said Lt. Col. Omar Hamza, an army officer who had allied with the rebels in Tobruk. "They are trying to help the people in Tripoli to capture Gadhafi."

At the Egyptian border, guards had fled, and local tribal elders have formed local committees to take their place. "Welcome to the new Libya," proclaimed graffiti spray-painted at the crossing. Fawzy Ignashy, a former soldier now in civilian clothes at the border, said that early in the uprising, some commanders ordered troops to fire on protesters, but tribal leaders stepped in and ordered them to stop.

"They did because they were from here. So the officers fled," he said.

A defense committee of residents was even guarding one of Gadhafi's once highly secretive anti-aircraft missile bases outside Tobruk. "This is the first time I've seen missiles like these up close," said Abdelsalam al-Gedani, one of the guards, dressed in an overcoat and carrying a Kalashnikov rifle.

International alarm has risen over the crisis, and is sending oil prices soaring and European and other countries scrambling to get their citizens out of Libya. Oil prices hit $100 per barrel for the first time since 2008. Libya is the world's 15th largest exporter of crude, accounting for 2 percent of global daily output. Traders are worried the revolt could threaten Libya's oil production and spread to other countries in the region.

Passengers arriving in Malta, a short flight away from Libya, described chaos and violence at Tripoli's airport, with desperate people pushing and shoving to get onto the few flights taking off Wednesday.

"One of my fellow passengers was actually beaten up quite heavily and kicked on," said Steffan Arnersten, a 42-year-old Swede who works as a managing director at a technical consulting company.

The U.N. Security Council held an emergency meeting that ended with a statement condemning the crackdown, expressing "grave concern" and calling for an "immediate end to the violence" and steps to address the legitimate demands of the Libyan people.

After a meeting of EU ambassadors, the bloc did not announce sanctions, but EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton said the EU stood "ready to take further measures" beyond suspending talks on a bilateral deal.

The precise measures were still being negotiated, a senior EU official said, adding that there were up to 10,000 EU citizens in Libya, sparking worries about getting them out of the North African country safely. The official requested anonymity because of the sensitivity of the situation.

"The continuing brutal and bloody repression against the Libyan civilian population is revolting," French President Nicolas Sarkozy said in a statement. "The international community cannot remain a spectator to these massive violations of human rights."

___

Michael reported from Cairo. Associated Press writers Sarah El Deeb and Ben Hubbard in Cairo; Frances D'Emilio in Rome; and Angela Doland in Paris contributed to this report.

QuoteBy JEANNINE AVERSA and CHRISTOPHER S. RUGABER, AP Economics Writers Jeannine Aversa And Christopher S. Rugaber, Ap Economics Writers – Wed Feb 23, 7:10 pm ET
WASHINGTON – Just as the U.S. and global economies are finally strengthening, they face a new danger: Rocketing oil prices, which topped $100 a barrel Wednesday.

The U.S. economy can likely absorb $100 oil and keep expanding, even though gasoline prices would rise further and growth would slow. But it would hurt.

Gasoline for U.S. motorists already costs more than at any point since 2008, despite ample supplies. The national average for a gallon of unleaded was $3.19 on Wednesday — 53 cents more than a year ago. Analysts expect the average to range between $3.25 and $3.75 this spring.

Oil prices had been rising for months, but they jumped this week as violence gripped Libya. Analysts say any production declines in Libya could likely be absorbed by other producers like Saudi Arabia. Libyan oil accounts for less than 1 percent of U.S. crude imports.

Still, analysts say concerns about violence in North Africa and Middle East have put a "fear premium" that's added about $10 a barrel.

Consumers and businesses would feel pinched by a sustained period of $100-a-barrel oil — and not just motorists. Stock prices, which have lost more than 2 percent so far this week, could sink further. That would reduce household wealth and consumer confidence. As fuel costs price rise, so would prices for travel services and products containing plastics.

This month, several airlines tacked on fuel surcharges — extra fees that help cover fuel bills.

Rising oil prices have pushed jet fuel close to $3 a gallon. Fuel accounts for roughly one-third of the budget for U.S. airlines, up from less than one-fifth a decade ago. Fitch Ratings analyst William Warlick said if jet fuel reaches about $3.20 a gallon, "the whole industry will be challenged to stay profitable."

Airlines may soon decide to eliminate some flights and ground older jets to cut fuel consumption, Warlick said. Delta Air Lines has already scaled back plans to add flights this year.

Analysts estimate that over a year, $100 oil would reduce U.S. economic growth by 0.2 or 0.3 of a percentage point. So rather than grow an estimated 3.7 percent this year, the economy would expand 3.4 percent or 3.5 percent. That would likely mean less hiring and higher unemployment.

The global economy wouldn't be affected as much. In part, that's because emerging economies consume less oil, per person, than industrialized countries do. In addition, many developing countries regulate or subsidize the cost of gas. Global growth would slip about 0.1 percentage point, economists estimate.

But oil prices around $100 a barrel could threaten European economies, many of which are net importers of oil and gas, haven't fully recovered from the financial crisis and face heavy debt loads. Spain and Italy, for example, where gas at the pump already goes for about $8 a gallon, face years of a slow, grinding recovery. A spike in oil would deal their economies another setback.

Pricier oil would also push up inflation in Europe, where it already exceeds official targets, and in countries with surging food prices, like China, Brazil and India. Those countries might then have to raise interest rates to cool inflation. Doing so, in turn, would slow growth in Latin America and Asia.

A darker possibility — one that few analysts expect — is that oil prices will keep rising until they reach $150 or more and then stay there for months. Under that scenario, another recession is possible, economists say.

Gasoline prices would near $5 a gallon. Consumers would spend much less. So would businesses, which would slash jobs.

"It would nail the economy," said Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's Analytics. "All the benefits of the tax breaks we got in last year's tax-cut deal would be completely wiped out and then some."

One reason the United States and other developed countries can still grow with oil at $100 a barrel is they've become more energy-efficient since the oil-price shocks of the 1970s. U.S. retailers and manufacturers that use oil-produced plastics, for example, have been shrinking packaging and packing more items onto their trucks. A new wave of redesigned products, like ultra-thin plastic bottles of water, has also emerged.

"Companies have been very clever in what they can do to reduce the production costs without affecting performance," said Jonathan Asher of Perception Research Services, which works with consumer product companies. The latest surge in oil "will turn up the heat even more."

Marc Rosenberg, a marketing official for WowWee Toys, says its products use 30 percent less plastic compared with five years ago.

"Can we live with $100 a barrel oil?" said economist Ken Mayland of ClearView Economics. "I think so. Can that economy still grow if oil is at $110 a barrel? Yes. But past that, you start getting uncomfortably close to the point where people start curbing their spending."

An example was in July 2008. That's when Americans faced record-high oil prices — $147 a barrel. Gasoline prices followed suit. They hit a record $4.11 a gallon nationwide.

The economy was already in a recession in the summer of 2008. But consumers hadn't yet cut their spending much. That changed in the third quarter of 2008 as oil and gas prices soared. Consumers slashed spending at a 3.5 percent annualized rate. It was the sharpest drop since 1980.

Ken Perkins of RetailMetrics, a retail research firm, thinks higher gas prices at the tank are already affecting low-income shoppers who are also paying higher grocery prices. He says gas prices would have to reach $4 a gallon or more to affect moderate-income consumers.

Perkins said more people will shop at neighborhood dollar chains or drugstores to pick up milk or bread and save on gas, further hurting Wal-Mart Stores Inc. Wal-Mart's sales have already been hammered by stepped-up competition.

Fears of another unchecked jump in prices have rattled investors. This week, investors have dumped stocks and shifted money into the safety of Treasury bonds, causing Treasury yields to fall.

The rise in Treasury prices this week lowered the yield on the 10-year Treasury note to 3.49 percent. That yield is used to peg rates on home mortgages and other consumer loans. Borrowers would face lower costs as such rates fall.

That said, interest rates are already relatively low by historical standards. So even a sustained decline in rates, by itself, wouldn't much stimulate Americans' appetite to spend, economists say.

A persistent drop in the stock market, though, would likely chill spending, especially by wealthier Americans. Europe's debt crisis in the spring of 2010 jolted Wall Street and slowed the U.S. economy as Americans reined in their spending.

David Hensley, an economist at JPMorgan Chase, said that if oil prices level off, even at $100 a barrel, the damage to the global economy would be slight and likely confined to the first half of this year. He thinks most countries could adapt to higher prices.

"But if the price keeps going up, and it's accompanied by falling stock prices, then it takes on a more sinister tone," Hensley said.

___

AP Business Writers Sandy Shore in Denver, Carlo Piovano in London, David Koenig in Dallas and Samantha Bomkamp, Anne D'Innocenzio and Chris Kahn in New York contributed to this report.

QuoteCol. Muammar Gaddafi, the leader of Libya, has been in the spotlight this week, clinging doggedly to power as an anti-government uprising sweeps the country he's ruled for over 41 years.

Diplomatic cables released over the past year by WikiLeaks portray the Libyan leader as deeply eccentric and whimsical, but also as a passionate follower of global events who aspires to be a player on the world stage. And they detail how the often embarrassing behavior of Gaddafi's sons--which has included throwing a lavish party at which Mariah Carey was paid $1 million to perform four songs--has had political implications.

Here are some highlights from the cables:

• Gaddafi, 68, is described as a "mercurial and eccentric figure who ... enjoys flamenco dancing and horseracing, acts on whims and irritates friends and enemies alike." He's also said to fear flying over water and staying on the upper floor of buildings, to often fast on Mondays and Thursdays, and to have once proclaimed himself Libya's "King of Culture." Oh, and according to one memo, he travels almost everywhere in the company of a "voluptuous blonde" Ukrainian nurse.

• Gaddafi "avoids making eye contact," according to one 2008 cable sent to then-Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice as she prepared to meet the Libyan leader. Rice also was warned that "there may be long, uncomfortable periods of silence,"

• But Rice was also told that Gaddafi is a "a voracious consumer of news," as well as a "self-styled intellectual and philosopher," who "has been eagerly anticipating for several years the opportunity to share with you his views on global affairs." One such view: an idea to solve the Arab-Israeli conflict by creating a new state called "Isratine."

• Gaddafi's five sons also make appearances in the cables. One, Muatassim, who serves as his father's national-security adviser, is said to have demanded $1.2 billion in 2008 from the chairman of Libya's national oil corporation, in order to establish his own militia. Twice in the last few years, Muatassim has held lavish New Year's parties on the Caribbean island of St. Barts, at which Mariah Carey, Usher, and Beyonce have been paid to perform (Carey was reportedly paid $1 million for four songs). The reports of Muatassim's "carousing and extravagance angered some locals, who viewed his activities as impious and embarrassing to the nation," one cable says. The Serbian ambassador is said to have described Muatassim as "not very bright."

• Another son, Hannibal, was arrested in Geneva in 2009 after allegedly beating his servants, sparking a diplomatic spat between Switzerland and Libya. (Charges were dropped after the servants agreed to a settlement.) That same year, police went to Hannibal's room at London's Claridge's hotel, after a scream was heard. Hannibal's then-girlfriend (she is now his wife) was found to have suffered facial injuries, which she said she sustained in a fall. A 2010 cable written by Gene Cretz, then the U.S. ambassador to Libya, judged that between them, Muatassim and Hannibal had  "provided enough dirt for a Libyan soap opera."

• And that's not counting a third son, Sa'adi, who's described as "notoriously ill-behaved," with a "troubled past, including scuffles with police in Europe (especially Italy), abuse of drugs and alcohol, excessive partying, [and] travel abroad in contravention of his father's wishes." A former professional soccer player (he played a season for Perugia in Italy's top division), Sa'adi owns a part of one of Libya's biggest soccer teams, as well as a film production company.

• Perhaps the best-behaved of Gaddafi's sons is Saif al-Islam, the presumed heir apparent, who is said not to get along with Muatassim, Hannibal, and Sa'adi. Ambassador Cretz's 2010 cable said that Libyan men in their 20s describe Saif as the "hope" of Libya, and want him to run the country. "The widening contrast between the respectable, cultured image that Saif has taken on and the spoiled, boorish image his siblings project," Cretz wrote, "has local audiences rallying behind Saif as the next heir to the Gaddafi throne."

• Still, Saif is no altar boy (mosque boy?): Another cable reported that he, too, "persisted in his hard-partying, womanizing ways." Nor does he seem to be a committed moderate. This week, he went on TV to declare that Libya faced a civil war and "rivers of blood" if people failed to support his father.

QuoteLondon, Feb 20(ANI): Double murder-accused US official Raymond Davis has been found in possession of top-secret CIA documents, which point to him or the feared American Task Force 373 (TF373) operating in the region, providing Al-Qaeda terrorists with "nuclear fissile material" and "biological agents," according to a report.

Russia's Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) is warning that the situation on the sub-continent has turned "grave" as it appears that open warfare is about to break out between Pakistan and the United States, The European Union Times reports.

The SVR warned in its report that the apprehension of 36-year-old Davis, who shot dead two Pakistani men in Lahore last month, had fuelled this crisis.

According to the report, the combat skills exhibited by Davis, along with documentation taken from him after his arrest, prove that he is a member of US' TF373 black operations unit currently operating in the Afghan War Theatre and Pakistan's tribal areas, the paper said.

While the US insists that Davis is one of their diplomats, and the two men he killed were robbers, Pakistan says that the duo were ISI agents sent to follow him after it was discovered that he had been making contact with al Qaeda, after his cell phone was tracked to the Waziristan tribal area bordering Afghanistan, the paper said.

The most ominous point in this SVR report is "Pakistan's ISI stating that top-secret CIA documents found in Davis's possession point to his, and/or TF373, providing to al Qaeda terrorists "nuclear fissile material" and "biological agents", which they claim are to be used against the United States itself in order to ignite an all-out war in order to re-establish the West's hegemony over a Global economy that is warned is just months away from collapse," the paper added. (ANI)

QuoteBy PAUL SCHEMM and SARAH EL DEEB, Associated Press Paul Schemm And Sarah El Deeb, Associated Press – Thu Feb 24, 7:59 pm ET
BENGHAZI, Libya – Foreign mercenaries and Libyan militiamen loyal to Moammar Gadhafi tried to roll back the uprising against his rule that has advanced closer to his stronghold in Tripoli, attacking two nearby cities in battles that killed at least 17 people. But rebels made new gains, seizing a military air base, as Gadhafi blamed Osama bin Laden for the upheaval.

The worse bloodshed was in Zawiya, 30 miles (50 kilometers) west of the capital Tripoli. An army unit loyal to Gadhafi opened fire with automatic weapons on a mosque where residents — some armed with hunting rifles for protection — have been holding a sit-in to support protesters in the capital, a witness said.

The troops blasted the mosque's minaret with an anti-aircraft gun. A doctor at a field clinic set up at the mosque said he saw the bodies of 10 dead, shot in the head and chest, as well as around 150 wounded. A Libyan news website, Qureyna, put the death toll at 23 and said many of the wounded could not reach hospitals because of shooting by "security forces and mercenaries."

A day earlier, an envoy from Gadhafi had come to the city from Tripoli and warned the protesters: "Either leave or you will see a massacre," the witness said. On Tuesday night, Gadhafi himself called on his supporters to hunt down opponents in their homes.

Zawiya, a key city close to an oil port and refineries, is the nearest population center to Tripoli to fall into the hands of the anti-Gadhafi rebellion that began Feb. 15. Hundreds have died in the unrest.

Most of the eastern half of Libya has already broken away, and diplomats, ministers and even a high-ranking cousin have abandoned Gadhafi, who has ruled Libya for 41 years. He is still believed to be firmly in control only of the capital, some towns around it, the far desert south and parts of Libya's sparsely populated center.

Gadhafi's crackdown has been the harshest by any Arab leader in the wave of protests that has swept the Middle East the past month, toppling the presidents of Libya's neighbors — Egypt and Tunisia. The New York-based Human Rights Watch has put the death toll in Libya at nearly 300, according to a partial count. Italy's Foreign Minister Franco Frattini said estimates of some 1,000 people killed were "credible."

The upheaval in the OPEC nation has taken most of Libya's oil production of 1.6 million barrels a day off the market, and crude prices have jumped 20 percent to two-year highs in just a week — reaching $99.77 per barrel in afternoon trading in New York and $114.20 in London on Thursday. Most of the oil goes to Europe.

Hours after the attack in Zawiya, Gadhafi called in to state TV and in a rambling speech expressed condolences for the dead but then angrily scolded the city's residents for siding with the uprising.

He blamed the revolt on bin Laden and teenagers hopped up on hallucinogenic pills given to them "in their coffee with milk, like Nescafe."

"Shame on you, people of Zawiya, control your children," he said, addressing residents of the city outside Tripoli where the mosque attack took place. "They are loyal to bin Laden," he said of those involved in the uprising. "What do you have to do with bin Laden, people of Zawiya? They are exploiting young people ... I insist it is bin Laden."

Gadhafi quickly condemned the Sept. 11 attacks that bin Laden masterminded, saying: "We have never seen such a horrific and terrifying act performed in such a exhibitionist manner." He cracked down on his country's Muslim militants, including those linked to al-Qaida. But in 2009, he said bin Laden had shown signs that he is open to dialogue and recommended that President Barack Obama seek an opening with the terrorist leader.

Thousands massed in Zawiya's main Martyrs Square by the Souq Mosque after the attack, shouting for Gadhafi to "leave, leave," the witness said. "People came to send a clear message: We are not afraid of death or your bullets," he said.

In the latest blow to the Libyan leader, a cousin who is one of his closest aides, Ahmed Gadhaf al-Dam, announced that he has defected to Egypt in protest against the regime's bloody crackdown, denouncing what he called "grave violations to human rights and human and international laws."

Gadhaf al-Dam is one of the highest level defections to hit the regime so far, after many ambassadors around the world, the justice minister and the interior minister all sided with the protesters. Gadhaf al-Dam belonged to Gadhafi's inner circle, served as his liaison with Egypt and frequently appeared by his side.

The regime's other attempt to take back lost territory came east of Tripoli. Pro-Gadhafi militiamen — a mix of Libyans and foreign mercenaries — assaulted a small airport outside Libya's third largest city, Misrata, about 120 miles (200 kilometers) from the capital.

Militiamen with rocket-propelled grenades and mortars barraged a line of government opponents who were guarding the airport, some armed with rifles, said one of the rebels who was involved in the battle.

During the fighting, the airport's defenders seized an anti-aircraft gun used by the militias and turned it against them, he said.

At the same time, officers from an air force school near the airport mutinied and, along with residents, overwhelmed an adjacent military air base where Gadhafi loyalists were holed up, a medical official at the base said. The air force personnel disabled fighter jets at the base to prevent them from being used against the uprising, he said.

The medical official said seven people were killed in the fighting at the airport — six from the opposition camp and one from the attackers — and 50 were wounded, including a six-year-old girl and her 11-year-old sister.

"Now Misrata is totally under control of the people, but we are worried because we are squeezed between Sirte and Tripoli, which are strongholds of Gadhafi," he said.

The doctor, medical officials and witnesses around Libya spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisals.

Gadhafi's crackdown has so far helped him maintain control of Tripoli, home to about a third of Libya's 6 million population. But the uprising has divided the country and raised the specter of civil war.

In cities across the east, anti-Gadhafi forces rose up and overwhelmed government buildings and army bases, joined in many cases by local army units that defected. In those cities, tribal leaders, residents and military officers have formed local administrations, passing out weapons looted from the security forces' arsenals.

They now control a swath of territory from the Egyptian border in the east, across nearly half Libya's 1,000-mile (1,600-kilometer) Mediterranean coast to the key oil port of Breqa, about 440 miles (710 kilometers) east of Tripoli.

Libyan Parliament Speaker Mohammed Abul-Qassim al-Zwai, asked whether the government planned to send relief to the rebel-controlled east, told reporters in Tripoli: "We cannot supply these areas because they are chaotic. Police stations have been attacked."

International momentum has been building for action to punish Gadhafi's regime for the bloodshed.

The Swiss government on Thursday ordered a freeze of any assets in Switzerland belonging to Gadhafi. The European Union pushed for Libya to be suspended from the U.N.'s top human rights body over possible crimes against humanity and for the U.N. Security Council to approve a probe into "gross and systematic violations of human rights by the Libyan authorities."

Obama said Wednesday that the crackdown "is outrageous and it is unacceptable," and he directed his administration to prepare a full range of options, including possible sanctions that could freeze the assets and ban travel to the U.S. by Libyan officials.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy raised the possibility of the European Union cutting off economic ties.

A number of Arab regimes, concerned about the unrest, have taken pre-emptive measures to try to head off the type of mass uprisings that swept through Egypt and Tunisia and now, Libya.

Algeria, another North African Arab state, on Thursday officially lifted a state of emergency in place for the past 19 years. The decision to do away with the restrictive measure has long been demanded by opposition parties and civil society and it comes amid a flurry of strikes and protests in a wide range of sectors — clearly a gesture aimed at restoring a measure of calm.

In Libya, Tripoli saw an outbreak of major protests against Gadhafi's rule earlier this week, met with attacks by militiamen who shot protesters on sight and killed dozens. One morning earlier in the week, residents awoke and reported bodies littering the streets in some neighborhoods.

Pro-Gadhafi militiamen — a mix of Libyans and foreign mercenaries — have clamped down on the city since the Libyan leader went on state TV Tuesday night and called on his supporters to take back the streets. Residents say militiamen roam Tripoli's main avenues, firing the air, while neighborhood watch groups have barricaded side streets trying to keep the fighters out and protesters lay low.

At the same time, regular security forces have launched raids on homes around the city. A resident in the Ben Ashour neighborhood said a number of SUVs full of armed men swept into his district Wednesday night, broke into his neighbor's home and dragged out a family friend as women in the house screamed. He said other similar raids had taken place on Thursday in other districts.

"Now is the time of secret terror and secret arrests. They are going to go home to home and liquidate opponents that way, and impose his (Gadhafi's) control on Tripoli," said the witness.

Another Tripoli resident said armed militiamen had entered a hospital, searching for government rivals among the injured. He said a friend's relative being treated there escaped only because doctors hid him.

A witness in Tripoli told the AP after touring the capital that security around the city has been relaxed except for two locations that are very heavily guarded. The state TV and radio building was surround by dozens of heavily armed soldiers and several vehicles with heavy machine guns as well as the road leading to Gadhafi's residence. A number of residents have reported that the army deployed tanks Wednesday in Tripoli's eastern suburb of Tajoura.

Late Thursday night in Tajoura, a vehicle with armed men drove by a group of protesters gathering near a clinic and sprayed the crowd with gunfire, a witness said. Residents of Tajoura, which has seen near daily clashes, have also hoisted the old monarchy flag up in a neighborhood square as a show of defiance against the regime.

Some Tripoli residents reported receiving text messages on their cell phones Thursday urging them to go protest in the capital's central Green Square after Friday prayers. The plaza was the site of intense clashes earlier in the week between government supporters and protesters.

Gadhafi and his son, Seif al-Islam, have gone on state television over the past few days to try to portray the uprising as a choice between the order of the old regime or chaos, civil war and "rivers of blood" that could destroy the country's oil wealth.

In his call to state TV, Gadhafi alternated between bitterly lashing out at Zawiya's residents — and by extension others in the population — for being ungrateful and telling them to control what he depicted as an uprising by misguided teenagers.

"If you want to destroy (the country), it's your problem," he said. "If you want to live in this chaos, you are free."

"You should go out and stop the young people who are carrying RPGs and rifles," he said. "If the men are afraid let the women go out."

Earlier Thursday, Libyan TV showed Egyptian passports, CDs and cell phones purportedly belonging to detainees who had allegedly confessed to plotting "terrorist" operations against the Libyan people. Other footage showed a dozen men lying on the ground, with their faces down, blindfolded and handcuffed. Rifles and guns were laid out next to them.

Those who have joined the uprising dismissed his claim that it was led by al-Qaida.

"These are all lies," said Gadhafi's former justice minister, Mustafa Abdel-Jalil, who has sided with the opposition. "There are no al-Qaida, no terrorist organizations."

In eastern, opposition-held Benghazi, Libya's second largest city, a prominent protest organizer who works closely with the administration now running the city, said his camp was "trying to fight the propaganda that the regime is trying to send all over the world, that we are calling an independent state in the state or that we are calling for an Islamic state."

The parliament speaker, al-Zwai, held out some concessions to the opposition, saying an investigative committee will be formed to look into the unrest and work will begin soon to draft a constitution. He also spoke about reforms such as giving salaries to the unemployed and soft loans to others.

____

El Deeb reported from Cairo. Associated Press writers Maggie Michael and Bassem Mroue contributed to this

QuoteНеизвесна политичка судбина либијског лидера пуковника Муамера ел Гадафија подстакла је на светским берзама питање шта је даља судбина једног од најбогатијих државних инвестиционих фондова. Суверени фонд Либије (ЛИА) располаже сумом 60–80 милијарди америчких долара.

Откако су 2004. године УН укинуле санкције према Либији, режим у Триполију је са оснивачким капиталом од 40 милијарди долара покренуо лавину инвестиција у оружје, западњачке финансијске институције, стратешке енергетске пројекте, италијанске фудбалске тимове... Суверени фонд Либије је у периоду 2006–2009. године (дакле, делом и у време глобалне финансијске кризе) остваривао рекордни годишњи профит од преко 2,3 милијарде долара, извештава агенција Блумберг.

Поређења ради, државни инвестициони фонд Норвешке пословао је у 2007. години са губитком од 2,9 одсто, док је 2008. године остварио пад зараде од 28 одсто.

Либија има новца на разбацивање: тамошњи Суверени инвестициони фонд има средстава као и Катар – највећи светски извозник гаса, који још слови као политички стабилан, додаје Ројтерс. Ко тачно руководи либијским инвестицијама, чиме се у овом тренутку бави ЛИА, да ли се новац трансферише на тајне рачуне широм света, веома брине берзе, и бизнисмене развијеног света који су од 2004. године развили бројне везе са Гадафијем.

Финансијски званичници Либије изузетно су дискретни. Државни инвестициони фонд нема обичај да редовно штампа извештаје о финансијском пословању. Познато је ипак да је Триполи од 2004. године развио мрежу финансијских консултанта у мање познатим одредиштима света. Профил улагања либијских петродолара током последњих година указује на изузетан опрез: само осам милијарди долара из тог фонда дугорочно је уложено у пројекте у северној Африци, Европи и Азији, преноси Ројтерс.

Добар део новца из Либијског државног инвестиционог фонда (око 78 одсто) краткорочно је инвестиран на глобалним финансијским берзама развијеног света.

У међувремену, либијски финансијери покуповали су некретнине на елитним локацијама у Лондону, Паризу, Риму, Дубаију... уложили новац у италијанске банке, гасоводе, фудбалске клубове, развој земљотресима угрожених подручја на Апенинском полуострву...

Гадафијева фамилија се у међувремену чврсто укључила у контролу домаће привреде. Пуковников најстарији син Мохамед надлежан је за рад либијских пошта и телекомуникација. Гадафијева ћерка Ајша веома је утицајна у грађевинарству, син Саиф задужен је за сарадњу са нафташима... Син Мутасим има велики интерес око прераде хране, док је Саади, иначе бивши фудбалер, на вези са Међународним Олимпијским комитетом.

Ко у Либији преговара са страним оружарима – није доступно јавности. Познато је ипак да је Велика Британија у понедељак отказала осам извозних дозвола за снабдевање Либије оружјем: бизнис је цветао готово до јуче. Само крајем 2010. године Уједињено Краљевство одобрило је извоз снајперских пушака и муниције за борбу против масовних демонстрација у вредности од шест милиона америчких долара.

Либијски петродолари привукли су и друге европске оружаре. Само 2009. године државе чланице ЕУ испоручиле су Либији оружја у вредности од 347 милиона долара. Опрему за ометање телекомуникација – која ових дана тако успешно функционише – Либији су тада продале Немачка (за 43 милиона евра), Велика Британија (за 20,7 милиона долара) и Италија (за милион евра). Либија је за набавку малокалибарских пушака са Малте пре две године потрошила чак 79,7 милиона евра.

Малта и Италија јуче су се успротивиле покушају ЕУ да Либији заведе економске и политичке санкције.

Тања Вујић


објављено: 24.02.2011.

QuoteЗасад неизвесно да ли ће лидери највећих либијских племена подржати власт Муамера Гадафија или директно утицати на његов пад

Власт Муамера Гадафија, према свему судећи, зависи од тога да ли ће успети да под својом контролом задржи водеће припаднике либијских оружаних снага који потичу из водећих племена у Либији.

Либијско друштво је карактеристично по томе што се људи више идентификују припадништвом одређеном племену или клану, (којих има око 140) него либијској држави. Ова појава потиче још из времена док је Либија била монархија, а пуковник Муамер ел Гадафи је практично до 1993. године безуспешно покушавао да сузбије племена и племенске вође. Међутим, после неуспешног пуча против Гадафија 1993, либијски вођа почиње са тактиком да у оружаним снагама буду представљени припадници свих племена.

Развијајући ривалство међу племенима, а уједно не дајући предност ниједном племену, Гадафи је поприлично ,,увезао" различита либијска племена тако да му буду верна.

Међутим, немири који се протеклих дана одвијају у неколико највећих либијских градова у први план су ставили два веома значајна племена који се налазе у Бенгазију и око њега, највећем граду на истоку Либије где су смештена и богата нафтна поља. Лидер племена Ал Зуваја запретио је још у недељу да ће прекинути испоруку нафте западним земљама уколико власти не прекину, како је назвао, ,,угњетавање демонстраната".

,,Спречићемо извоз нафте западним земљама у року од 24 часа", рекао је шеик Фарај ал Зувај, међутим засад нема информација да је то учињено.

Осим тога, против Гадафија огласио се и један од водећих људи највећег либијског племена Ал Варфала, које броји око милион људи и живи јужно од Бенгазија.

,,Рекли смо нашег брату (Гадафију) да он више није брат, рекли смо му да напусти земљу", рекао је за Ал Џазиру Акрам ал Варфали, при чему највише жртава у сукобима у Бенгазију има баш из његовог племена.

Племену Ал Варфала блиско је и племе Ал Зинтан чији припадници живе у граду Зинтан, на око 100 километара јужно од Триполија. Иначе, житељи овог града на западу Либије међу првима су се укључили у протесте против Гадафијевог режима.

Иако одређени аналитичари сматрају да не би требало прецењивати значај племенских вођа, докази да је утицај племена велики представљају говор Гадафијевог сина Саифа ал Ислама у којем упозорава на рат међу племенима, али и упозорење италијанског шефа дипломатије Франка Фратинија да би се на ободу Европске уније могао формирати ,,исламски арапски емират" око града Бенгазија у којем живи 700.000 људи.

Штавише, шеф дипломатије Италије је јуче изјавио да исток Либије више није под контролом владе. Осим тога, према појединим изворима, наводно је опозиција преузела контролу града Мисурата, који би у том случају био први град на западу земље кога су преузели Гадафијеви противници.

Племенима Ал Варфала и Ал Зуваја, према свему судећи, блиско је и племе Авлад Али, које се налази дужи либијско-египатске границе и које је најавило да ће обезбедити снабдевање медицинским материјалом који шаљу опозициони активисти из Египта.

Ипак, биће пресудно на чију страну ће се заиста ставити племе Ал Зуваја јер оно живи на територији на којој су главна налазишта нафте, од чије продаје је Гадафијев режим успео да значајно побољша економску ситуацију у Либији. Према подацима ММФ-а, бруто национални производ по глави становника у Либији износи око 12.000 долара.

Н. Радичевић


објављено: 24.02.2011.

QuoteLSE investigates Gaddafi's son plagiarism claims
By Katherine Sellgren BBC News education reporter

The London School of Economics has confirmed it is investigating allegations that Colonel Gaddafi's son plagiarised his PhD thesis.

Saif al-Islam studied at the LSE from 2003 to 2008, gaining both a Master of Science degree and a doctorate.

But allegations have emerged that he used a ghost writer, and copied sections of his thesis.

In 2009, he pledged a £1.5m donation to the LSE from the Gaddafi International Charity and Development Foundation.

The LSE's involvement with the Libya prompted student protests last week.

In a statement, the university said: "LSE is aware that there are allegations of plagiarism concerning the PhD thesis of Saif Gaddafi.

"The School takes all allegations of plagiarism very seriously, and is looking into the matter in accordance with standard LSE procedures."

Embarrassment

On Monday, LSE director Sir Howard Davies, admitted he felt "embarrassed" by the university's ties with the family of Colonel Gaddafi.

He said the decision to accept research funding from a foundation controlled by Saif Gaddafi had "backfired".
Saif al-Islam Gaddafi The LSE's ties with Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, a son of the Libyan leader, are proving to be controversial

He also expressed regret that he had visited Libya to advise the regime about how it could modernise its financial institutions.

Sir Howard, who is a former head of the Financial Services Authority (FSA) and deputy governor of the Bank of England, said the decision to accept £300,000 from the Gaddafi International Charity and Development Foundation had been debated "extensively" within the LSE.

Last week the university said it was reconsidering its links with Libya "as a matter of urgency."

But that did not appease angry students.

Last Wednesday a dozen students stormed his offices, demanding the £300,000 of the £1.5m donation already accepted be "paid back" to the Libyan people.

There were also protests outside the School, as students gathered to express their concerns.

QuoteBy BRADLEY KLAPPER, Associated Press Bradley Klapper, Associated Press – Mon Feb 28, 7:54 am ET
GENEVA – The United States pressed its European allies on Monday to set tough sanctions on the Libyan government, and Germany responded with a far-reaching proposal to cut off all oil and other payments to the country for 60 days so that Moammar Gadhafi's regime cannot use the money to repress his people.

German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle's call essentially amounted to an economic embargo and ranks among the toughest proposal yet aimed at forcing Gadhafi to stem attacks on his opponents and leave power after 42 years in control of his country. He spoke as doubts emerged about the feasibility of another central idea to punish Gadhafi, a no-fly zone that would prevent him from launching aerial attacks.

"We must do everything so this murder ends," Westerwelle told reporters. "We must do everything to ensure that no money is going into the hands of the Libyan dictator's family, that they don't have any opportunity to hire new foreign soldiers to repress their people with."

Westerwelle made the announcement after meeting with Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton and other foreign ministers. He said he was only speaking for Germany, but insisted that his call had found some support from other countries.

Clinton was also making the administration's case for stronger action to foreign ministers from Britain, France and Italy as part of a series of high-level talks in this Swiss city. She also met with the European Union's top diplomat, Catherine Ashton, who told reporters that European governments would set new sanctions on Gadhafi's regime such as an embargo on equipment that might be used against Libyans.

Clinton also met with the foreign policy chiefs of Russia and Australia as part of the effort to coordinate unified international opposition to the attacks that have killed hundreds of people in the North African country. Senior Obama administration officials said the discussions would touch on future sanctions that might be applied to Gadhafi's regime, but the proposal for a possible no-fly zone over the country appeared to divide nations.

Russia's foreign minister said he had no talks with Clinton about the proposal. "Absolutely not," Sergey Lavrov said as he emerged from his meeting with Clinton. "It was not mentioned by anyone."

And in Paris, French Prime Minister Francois Fillon said a no-fly zone needed U.N. support "which is far from being obtained today." He also questioned whether NATO should get involved in a civil war in a North African country.

Foreign Minister Franco Frattini of Italy, whose bases would be the most logical place from which to monitor the no-fly zone, said the issue was under discussion but said the logistics would be difficult.

"We should discuss all the consequences," Frattini said after meeting Clinton. He said it would have to be clear what country was "in position to put military bases at their disposal, and who is in position to participate actively with military planes ready to enforce the decision of a no-fly zone."

While Western officials privately raised doubts about how countries could enforce such an order, Australian Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd proceeded straight from his meeting with Clinton to the U.N. Human Rights Council, and announced his country's support for moves to establish a no-fly zone at the Security Council.

"Guernica is known throughout the world for the bombing of the civilian population," Rudd told The Associated Press, referring to the massacre during the Spanish Civil War. "We have seen evidence of that in Libya. Let us not simply stand idly by while similar atrocities are committed again."

Key Sens. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Joseph Lieberman, a Connecticut independent, also have called for the no-fly zone, though the administration's position wasn't clear.

Senior administration officials, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss internal planning, said Clinton was exploring with her international counterparts different strategies to turn up the heat on Gadhafi and convince his remaining loyalists to abandon the regime. The Obama administration has declared it wants the Libyan leader to leave power immediately and that it stands ready to aid Libyans seeking to overthrow his government.

"We want him to leave and we want him to end his regime and call off the mercenaries and those troops that remain loyal to him," Clinton told reporters Sunday, a day after President Barack Obama branded Gadhafi an illegitimate ruler who must leave power.

The administration hoped for EU sanctions Monday and pointed to the far larger economic impact they could have because most of Libya's exports go to the continent.

That means, as with Iran, concerted European action affecting oil, trade or investment relations with Libya could deal a crippling blow to Gadhafi's economy whereas the impact of American sanctions is more limited. While an official said "substantial" Libyan assets based in the U.S. were blocked by the administration last week, the effect of Europeans "mirroring" those penalties could do more to prod Gadhafi's closest allies to abandon ship.

___

Associated Press writer Frank Jordans contributed to this story.

QuoteBy CHRIS KAHN, AP Energy Writer Chris Kahn, Ap Energy Writer – Thu Mar 10, 5:22 pm ET
NEW YORK – Oil traders focused on weak economic reports from the U.S. and China Thursday, while showing they still have a hair trigger mentality when it comes to events in the Middle East.

When news broke that Saudi Arabian police fired shots to break up a protest Thursday afternoon, prices soared $3 per barrel in just 12 minutes, erasing most of what had been a 3.6 percent decline. Benchmark West Texas Intermediate for April delivery eventually settled down $1.68, or 1.6 percent, to $102.70 per barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange.

"Everything erupted," PFGBest analyst Phil Flynn said of the news. "Saudi Arabia can make up for disruptions in other country's supply but who can make up for Saudi Arabia?"

Earlier, prices tumbled on signs that the recent surge in fuel prices is slowing economic growth. So far this year, the U.S. is consuming more gasoline despite price increases of 50 cents per gallon in just three months. But Americans may finally be pulling back, experts said.

Motorists recently have started to buy fewer gallons of gasoline, according to SpendingPulse, a research firm that tracks retail spending. Consumers were buying more in February, and that trend was supposed to continue toward the summer.

The rapid increase in gas prices "blew through" everyone's comfort level, SpendingPulse Vice President Michael McNamara said. He called it the first real sign that consumers are rearranging their habits to conserve gas.

Economist Michael Lynch said consumers will cut back on driving even more in coming months if oil remains above $100 per barrel.

"We're past the point of, 'Oh, it's only going to be up for a few days,'" Lynch said. He observed that people are "modifying their vacation plans as we get closer to the summer."

Meanwhile, traders continued to watch the Middle East and North Africa. Protestors already have shut down Libya's production, and concerns are growing that similar unrest could sweep into the world's largest oil exporter: Saudi Arabia.

About 7.3 million barrels of Saudi crude gets shipped every day to refineries, satisfying about 8 percent of global demand. The kingdom also is one of only a handful of countries that can increase production enough to meet unexpected increases in demand.

The Saudis are preparing for more demonstrations on Friday. Government officials have warned they will act against protestors that take to the streets. Any signs of disruption to Saudi oil supplies would likely send oil prices well above current levels.

Still, the decline in oil for the day showed the market is concerned about the impact of high prices on the global economy. Prices fell as low as $100.62 before rebounding on the Saudi news.

China, which is expected to drive oil demand for years, reported a surprising trade deficit of $7.3 billion for February because of surging oil and commodity prices. And Oil prices helped raise the U.S. trade deficit to a seven-month high in January, when crude prices were still only $87.50 a barrel.

Oil jumped from around $84 in mid-February to above $105 earlier this week.

"When you've risen as quickly as we have, there's always going to be a risk of a big drop when you hear stories that say the world isn't as wonderful as you think," said Tom Kloza, publisher and chief oil analyst at Oil Price Information Service.

Oil company shares dropped. Exxon Mobil Corp., Chevron Corp., BP PLC, ConocoPhillips, Occidental Petroleum Corp., and Royal Dutch Shell all fell at least 3 percent.

At the pump, retail gasoline prices added less than a penny on Thursday, rising to s national average of $3.529 per gallon, according to AAA, Wright Express and Oil Price Information Service. A gallon of regular is 41.2 cents more expensive than last month and 76.1 cents higher than the same time last year.

SpendingPulse said that gasoline consumption has dropped in the week ended March 4 compared with last year. Demand fell by 1 percent on the West Coast, 1.6 percent in New England and 0.3 percent along the Gulf Coast.

In London, Brent crude lost 51 cents to settle at $115.43 per barrel on the ICE Futures Exchange.

Natural gas fell 10 cents to settle at $3.83 per 1,000 cubic feet after the government said U.S. supplies are still higher than last year despite a drop in price. U.S. inventories have been growing as new technologies allow companies to tap underground shale deposits.

In other Nymex trading for April contracts, heating oil fell 2.58 cents to settle at $3.0449 per gallon and gasoline dropped less than a penny to settle at $3.0196 per gallon.

QuoteИзвештај из Либије: Снаге Гадафија крећу на исток

Мирослав Лазански   
недеља, 13. март 2011.

Триполи – Триполи ноћу из авиона блешти, сви путеви, куће и базени осветљени су, на фудбалском стадиону рефлектори упаљени, а фудбалера нема. Наш авио-превозник ,,Јат" има редовну линију за Триполи, авион практично празан, аеродромско особље, Либијци, врло је љубазно, цене то што наша компанија није обуставила летове.

,,Знате, када је НАТО бомбардовао Југославију 1999. године ми смо примили четири 'Јатова' авиона и све време их овде чували потпуно бесплатно", каже ми Јусуф Рахман, један од менаџера на аеродрому. У аеродромској згради нема гужве, изван зграде право шаторско насеље Африканаца који чекају авионе својих држава да би се евакуисали. Полицијска контрола на изласку на аутопут, који води од аеродрома до Триполија, врло је дискретна. Нема ни тенкова ни оклопних транспортера.

Догађаји у Либији заправо су врло тешко објашњиви. Прво се мислило да оно што се догодило у Тунису и Египту није могуће да се догоди и у Либији. Но, када је почела побуна против пуковника Гадафија, многи су мислили да ће он брзо сићи са власти, да ће га домино ефекат срушити за десетак дана. Али у Либији нема средње класе, има сиромашних, али нема гладних. Овде нема ни политичких странака, нема институционалне опозиције каква постоји у Тунису и у Египту.

Ипак, званични Триполи је нека два месеца пре ових догађаја упозоравао да две ТВ станице, Ал Џазира и Ал Арабија, воде форсирану медијску кампању против режима пуковника Гадафија. Либијци овде кажу да је све јасно ако се зна који и чији капитал стоји иза тих телевизија. Посебно је догађаје у Либији подстицала ТВ Ал Џазира извештавајући о ,,тешким борбама у Триполију".

Прошао сам јутрос градом, нема никаквих трагова тешких борби. Триполи је миран и осунчан град, петак је овде нерадан дан и само је рибља пијаца, смештена уз градску луку, пуна купаца и продаваца. Једна полицијска станица, близу Зеленог трга, која је била спаљена, сада се убрзано кречи. Фонтане раде, саобраћајци на раскрсницама седе у својим аутомобилима. Ниједан пуцањ се не чује.

Пуковник Гадафи је, очигледно, консолидовао ситуацију у западном делу Либије. Владине снаге заузеле су пре три дана град Завија, око 50 километара западно од Триполија. Овде су побуњеници на почетку отели двадесетак тенкова из једне касарне и на ултиматум Гадафијевих снага да се проблем мирно реши, да се избегну борбе и да положе оружје нису пристали. Преговори око Завије трајали су седам дана и после тога су у уличним борбама јединице пуковника Гадафија савладале побуњенике.

Град Мисурата, на западу земље, такође је под контролом владиних снага, а од јуче је под контролу пуковника Гадафија враћен и град и лука Рас Лануф, око 650 километара источно од престонице. Рас Лануф је стратешки важан град, јер је овде центар хемијске индустрије, овде су рафинерије и једно од чворишта нафтовода. Град Брега, 750 километара од Триполија, још је под контролом побуњеника, као и Бенгази.

На војном плану снаге пуковника Гадафија полако напредују ка истоку државе. Растојања између Триполија и градова на истоку велика су, Гадафијевим трупама треба времена да се прикупе у том подручју, јер један оклопни батаљон већ на почетку побуне је прешао на страну демонстраната.

Могло би се рећи да пуковник Гадафи примењује врло лукаву стратегију, не жури да нападне градове које држе побуњеници, не користи целокупну оружану силу, доста опрезно и дозирано користи авијацију.

Побуњеници све своје снаге држе дуж путева или непосредно уз њих, тако да авијацији пуковника Гадафија није проблем да их у једном јачем ваздушном налету десеткује.

Гадафи то избегава, јер је свестан да НАТО и САД мотре сваки његов корак, да се само чека ,,прекомерна употреба силе" да би алијанса војно и директно интервенисала.

Запад не сматра да се војном интервенцијом може сматрати улазак три холандска маринца са хеликоптером дубоко ушао у територију Либије, нити појављивање десеточланог тима британског САС-а, који су сељаци у околини Бенгазија моткама премлатили.

Либијци у Триполију тврде да је у подручју Бенгазија већ око 70 британских инструктора који помажу побуњеницима. Телевизија је овде приказала и сандуке са оружјем које је опозицији стигло из Катара.

Либијска телевизија емитовала је неколико пута и прислушкиване и снимљене телефонске разговоре америчког и британског амбасадора са вођама опозиције у Бенгазију. Две екселенције питају побуњенике како да им помогну и шта им треба. Иначе, те две екселенције већ су раније напустиле Триполи.

(Политика)

QuoteAfter the US invasion of Iraq, when the United States briefly toyed with the idea of privatizing Iraq's vast oil wealth, Iraqi nationalism prevailed, resoundingly defeating any attempt by Western and foreign companies to seize Iraq's oil production, and since then Iraq's successive governments have limited the intrusion of foreign companies into Iraq's oil industry.

QuoteIPC itself has ceased to exist in all but name on paper. An associated company, Abu Dhabi Petroleum Company (ADPC) - formerly Petroleum Development (Trucial Coast) Ltd - is today the only survivor of the IPC group of associated companies. ADPC still holds 40% of the onshore concession in Abu Dhabi, the majority 60% being held by the Abu Dhabi National Oil Company (ADNOC) on behalf of the Abu Dhabi Government. Operations are carried out by the local operating company, ADCO (The Abu Dhabi Company for Onshore Oil Operations) which is jointly owned by ADNOC and the ADPC shareholders, BP, Royal Dutch Shell, ExxonMobil, Total S.A. and Partex, reflecting the historical make-up of the Iraq Petroleum Company. The current Abu Dhabi onshore oil concession is due to expire in January, 2014.

QuoteA popular conspiracy theory about the American invasion of Iraq that made the rounds on the internet was that the war is being fought to secure oil supplies and benefit U.S. oil companies. (For a primer on the oil and gas industry, refer to our Oil and Gas Industry Primer.)


The theory states that President Bush was a tool of "Big Oil," and these multinational companies pressed his administration into war for this purpose.

Who Benefits?
Yet the results of bids for licenses to explore and develop Iraqi oil fields shows very little benefit for U.S.-based integrated oil companies. The Iraqi Oil Ministry has awarded licenses to a broad range of international companies, many of which are based in nations that opposed the war and refused to participate. Only two U.S.-based oil companies have been awarded contracts to develop Iraqi oil fields.

The government has held several bidding rounds for the right to develop Iraq's prolific reserves of oil. The first round was held in June 2009, and only one contract was awarded initially. BP, Inc. (NYSE:BP) and the China National Petroleum Corp. were awarded the development rights to the Rumaila oil field.

The two companies and their Iraqi partners will invest $15 billion over the next 20 years in an attempt to boost production from 1 million to 2.85 million barrels per day.

International Involvement
In October 2009, a group led by Eni SpA (NYSE:E), an Italian oil company, was awarded the contract for the Zubair Oil Field. Occidental Petroleum (NYSE:OXY), an American company was part of this bid.

A month later, Exxon Mobil (NYSE:XOM) and Royal Dutch Shell (NYSE:RDS.A, RDS.B) were given the right to develop Phase one of the West Qurna oil field.

Another round was held in mid December 2009, and concessions were awarded on seven  of the 10 fields offered. No American-based companies bid during this round.   

Sonangol, the Angolan National Oil Company, also called the Sociedade Nacional de Combustiveis de Angola, won the right to develop the Qaiyarah and Najmah oil fields in the northern part of Iraq.

Russian company Lukoil and Statoil ASA (NYSE:STO) won the right to develop Phase two of the West Qurna oil field. This field holds 12.8 billion in proved reserves, and is in the southern part of Iraq, near Basra.   

A consortium led by Gazprom, another Russian oil company, won the right to develop the Badra Field near the border with Iran. Members of this group include Petronas, the National Oil Company of Malaysia. Royal Dutch Shell and Petronas also won the concession for the Majnoon field, another one of Iraq's giant oil fields.

Iraq has a multi-year plan to boost production from its fields and these leases are only part of the plan. Iraq plans on drilling 150 wells in 2010 on its own without foreign assistance, and hopes this will add 250,000 barrels per day to its production.

Bottom Line
The perception that American oil companies would receive preferential treatment in a post-war Iraq have been proven false so far, with only two U.S.-based companies receiving contracts to develop Iraqi oil fields. This is a sharp slap in the face to conspiracy theorists everywhere. (Learn about factors that affect oil prices in our article, What Determines Oil Prices?)

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 14-03-2011, 14:59:53ali ako odeš na sajt iračkog ministarstva za naftu  (http://www.oil.gov.iq/) jasno je da većinu i dalje drži država i izdaje koncesije raznim stranim firmama.

Quote from: scallop on 14-03-2011, 15:12:31
Pogledaš u prvoj samoposluzi ko pravi naćose od kukuruza u Paraćinu i počne da ti sviće.

Quote from: Bata Životinja on 14-03-2011, 15:19:56

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 14-03-2011, 14:59:53ali ako odeš na sajt iračkog ministarstva za naftu  (http://www.oil.gov.iq/) jasno je da većinu i dalje drži država i izdaje koncesije raznim stranim firmama.

jasno jeste, ali je pitanje da li su Iračani to morali da urade?

I pod kojim uslovima su to učinili. I Norveška daje koncesije, ali ona nikad ne koristi više od polovine svojih resursa, jer ostavlja neke bušotine da se obnove, i niko ih po 20 godina ne dira. Ako npr u Iraku u ovom trenutku resurse troše 100%, apsolutno sve se isisava, to je takođe pokazatelj zašto je Irak napadnut. Naravno, uvijek postoji i verzija da su Ameri kompleksaši kojima je Sadam išibao zadnjicu 1991. pa se sada vraća, čim su se republikanci vratili na vlast. Ali nafta je ključni faktor bila i 1991.

Vidim i ja da su lešinari razgrabili svašta, čak i Rusi su dakle upali, Britanci očekivano

A US based je jedna stvar, a američka kompanija je sasvim druga stvar, npr sve banke u Srbiji su Serbia-based, one su u tom smislu srpske banke, iako su filijale svjetskih banaka

mrzi me da provjeravam redom, ali ROYAL DUTCH SHELL je u većinskom američkom vlasništvu
http://www.dailyfinance.com/company/royal-dutch-shell-plc-cl-b/rds.b/nys/institutional-ownership (http://www.dailyfinance.com/company/royal-dutch-shell-plc-cl-b/rds.b/nys/institutional-ownership)

Capital World Investors posjeduje 45 miliona akcija, dakle džaba što je to navodno holandsko-britanska kompanija

I naravo da Ameri moraju nešto da poklone i svojim saveznicima.

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 14-03-2011, 15:31:13

Quote from: scallop on 14-03-2011, 15:12:31
Pogledaš u prvoj samoposluzi ko pravi naćose od kukuruza u Paraćinu i počne da ti sviće.

A, pa, jasno, umesto da informaciju tražim na Internetu, tražiću je u samoposluzi, zameniću raznovrsnost izvora informacija za izvor koji mi ti preporučuješ. To je tvoj lukavi plan da svi počnemo da mislimo kao ti.  :lol:

Quote from: John Reynolds on 18-03-2011, 10:55:17
Naravno, opet ću naglasiti da je imperativ čovečanstva bacanje Zapada na kolena. To je jedini način za postizanje nečega približnog "miru u svetu".

Quote from: John Reynolds on 18-03-2011, 14:14:34
I nemoj da mi neko "pametan" sad skrene pažnju da je i Brazil zapad; zapad i Zapad nisu isto. Čak ako ćemo simbolički, zapad je tačka gde svetlost umire, gde nastaje tama i smrt. Zora novog dana zna se gde sviće, tamo gde - srećom - i Srbija pripada.

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 18-03-2011, 14:27:42
S druge strane, zapad ipak ima više standarde kako u legislativi tako i u praksi u poštovanju ljudskih prava i svojine.

Quoteaj sad neki vojni analiticar da se javi,jel moze ovaj gadafi realno da im zaprzi corbu?

ne
glupi beduin
tolike pare uzima od nafte,umesto da kupi 3-4 eskadrile su30
da ne pomisli neko da mu preti
on se izdrkava i kupuje hotele i ostale gluposti po evropi
mi ovako bedni smo izbacili tenk t55 iz upotrebe jel je zastareo
on to jos koristi

cavez pametno radi,amerikanci mu pretili
uzeo covek su 30,sad moze da im doleti do majamija
vise ga ne cackaju

Quote from: John Reynolds on 18-03-2011, 14:14:34
Nema u mojoj izjavi nikakvog paradoksa. Ogromnu, ogromnu većinu krvavih ratova poslednjih vekova izazvao je Zapad. Dakle, i ako se bude ratovalo, ratovaće se jer se već ratuje, zato što ratove oni izazivaju. A gušenjem izazivača ratova može nastati samo mir jer - već se ratuje, zar ne? Ceo sistem je baziran na ratu i tako je već vekovima.

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 18-03-2011, 15:50:23
Od Amerike svakako treba preuzeti ono što je dobro (ideju o vrednosti ljudskih prava i sloboda, preduzimljivost i inicijativu, poštovanje imovine) a biti pametan i primenjivati ga onako da se izbegne što je više moguće lošeg koje uz njega ide...

Quote from: D. on 18-03-2011, 15:22:58
A zasto onda mislis da ce bacanje Zapada na kolena da donese neki mir? I kakav mir?

I zasto mislis da preokret u posedovanju moci nece izazvati nove ratove za povratak/odrzavanje moci?

Gusenjem izazivaca ratova, nastace neki novi izazivaci...

Quote from: varvarin on 18-03-2011, 16:09:12
Pa nek nastanu novi izazivači, ovi stari su izgubili zube, matori su!! Krajnje je vreme!!

Quote from: John Reynolds on 18-03-2011, 16:06:25
Zato što zemlje BRIK-a, zametka (naglašavam!) Slobodnog Sveta, tokom svoje veoma duge istorije uglavnom nisu vodile osvajačke ratove, a neke su realno imale snagu za to.

Quote from: John Reynolds on 18-03-2011, 16:10:44

Quote from: varvarin on 18-03-2011, 16:09:12
Pa nek nastanu novi izazivači, ovi stari su izgubili zube, matori su!! Krajnje je vreme!!

Pa čak je i ovo razmišljanje neki napredak u odnosu na postojeće stanje stvari.

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 18-03-2011, 16:12:34
Pa, sad... I Kina i Indija i Rusija su vodile osvajačke ratove u svojim dugim istorijama, proporcionalno znatno više nego Amerika.

Quote from: John Reynolds on 18-03-2011, 16:25:25
I da li bi pojasnila ovo: "opet iz razloga dobrih tekovina Zapada, gde je koncept održivog razvoja jedino moguće rešenje za sve"? American dream? WTF?

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 18-03-2011, 16:45:34

Što se vode tiče...

http://www.worldwaterwars.com/ (http://www.worldwaterwars.com/)

Quote

Humanity's fight for scarce water is a staple of dystopian fiction (and the plot of one shitty Bond movie), but in the end, that's all it is: fiction. Because come on -- water? It's like ... right there, and plenty of it. There of course are Third World countries where clean water is a precious commodity, but you don't see Western multinational companies and businessmen actually investing millions of dollars in it. But that's only because they have been really quiet about it.


T. Boone Pickens is a Texan ex-oilman and currently the biggest private owner of water in the United States, with access to most of the Texan portion of the Ogallala Aquifer, which holds more than a quadrillion gallons of the liquid. Pickens has invested more than $100 million and eight years of work in acquiring the rights to this much "blue gold" and now plans to sell it to Dallas or some other major U.S. city desperately running out of water. There are plenty to choose from.

If you're hoping that Pickens is just some crazy rich guy, it's worth mentioning that he wasn't the first to have this idea. To become a water baron, Pickens had to fight for 15 years with the Canadian River Municipal Water Authority, which tried to buy his reserves out from under him. Water drilling is serious business.






Furthermore, what the man is doing is pretty old-hat by American standards. For years, New York has been getting its water from the Catskill Mountains, while Southern California has to reach all the way to the Sierra Nevada range -- hundreds of miles in both cases. Then there is Russia diverting its Siberian water surplus to China, and Alaska selling its H2O to India of all places. Either these multi-million-dollar companies and huge governments are paranoid as hell, or they know something that we don't. Something horrifying.



But even if fresh water is running out, we can take comfort in the fact that, as rational people, we at least won't be going to war over it all Mad Max-style, right? How about we just leave you with these links about water supply-related conflicts between Pakistan and India, India and China or Israel and the rest of the Middle East, and let you answer that question yourselves. Sleep tight!

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 18-03-2011, 17:03:07
But even if fresh water is running out, we can take comfort in the fact that, as rational people, we at least won't be going to war over it all Mad Max-style, right? How about we just leave you with these links about water supply-related conflicts between Pakistan and India, India and China or Israel and the rest of the Middle East, and let you answer that question yourselves. Sleep tight!

Quote from: D. on 18-03-2011, 17:04:41
@varvarin

Da si Amer isto bi se ponašao. Ništa lično - mi samo hoćemo da preživimo, i to da preživimo lepo.

Quote from: varvarin on 18-03-2011, 17:16:24

Quote from: D. on 18-03-2011, 17:04:41
@varvarin

Da si Amer isto bi se ponašao. Ništa lično - mi samo hoćemo da preživimo, i to da preživimo lepo.

Hej, zaboga! Jel to čuvena priča o zlatnoj milijardi?
Ono, da milijarda ljudi u najrazvijenijim zemljama IMA PRAVO da sačuva svoj standard... po cenu ratova, gladi u trećem svetu, i upotrebim atomskog oružja, naravno???
Nemoj mi reći da podržavaš to!!

Quote from: varvarin on 18-03-2011, 17:16:24

Quote from: D. on 18-03-2011, 17:04:41
@varvarin

Da si Amer isto bi se ponašao. Ništa lično - mi samo hoćemo da preživimo, i to da preživimo lepo.

Hej, zaboga! Jel to čuvena priča o zlatnoj milijardi?
Ono, da milijarda ljudi u najrazvijenijim zemljama IMA PRAVO da sačuva svoj standard... po cenu ratova, gladi u trećem svetu, i upotrebim atomskog oružja, naravno???
Nemoj mi reći da podržavaš to!!

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 18-03-2011, 17:17:31
Dobro, Treći Rajh je ipak imao logore smrti. SAD jesu jedine koristile nuklearno oružje u ratnim dejstvima, ali i pored toga je Treći Rajh proizveo mnogo više žrtava na mnogo većoj teritoriji i imao prilično opsežan genocidan projekat spram nekoliko naroda.

No, hajde, lično mišljenje je lično mišljenje...

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 18-03-2011, 17:19:12

Quote from: varvarin on 18-03-2011, 17:16:24

Quote from: D. on 18-03-2011, 17:04:41
@varvarin

Da si Amer isto bi se ponašao. Ništa lično - mi samo hoćemo da preživimo, i to da preživimo lepo.

Hej, zaboga! Jel to čuvena priča o zlatnoj milijardi?
Ono, da milijarda ljudi u najrazvijenijim zemljama IMA PRAVO da sačuva svoj standard... po cenu ratova, gladi u trećem svetu, i upotrebim atomskog oružja, naravno???
Nemoj mi reći da podržavaš to!!

Znam ja da D. ne treba advokat, ali evo:

Vidiš valjda razliku između toga da neko opiše fenomen i toga da neko zastupa određenu praksu?

Quote from: D. on 18-03-2011, 16:40:52
Analogija sa Miloševićem ti se ne uklapa sasvim u ovu priču. Zapad ima mnogo pozitivnije i naprednije tekovine o kojima treba voditi računa. Ali ako insistiraš - uklanjanje Miloševića ostavilo nas je u istom sranju. Zamenio ga je (i to bukvalno, samo sa drugačijim imenom) Đinđić. Nešto je i išlo napred (i to samo nominalno) dok je on držao konce u rukama, kada su ga ubili sve je nepovratno krenulo u kanalizaciju. O toj opštoj kanalizaciji govorim kada kažem da će uklanjanje svetske sile dovesti do opšte trke za naslednikom pozicije. Sjaše Kurta da uzjaše Murta. Pogotovo u uslovima nedostatka vode i hrane. Zar onda nije bolje izvući maksimum iz situacije? Da bude nebitno da li je Kurta ili Murta, već ko je od njih dvojice manje zlo za opstanak svih?

Quote from: D.Pa to samo Džon zamišlja...

Quote from: Meho KrljićPa samo je stvaranjem Sovjetskog Saveza anektrirana gomila zemalja iz okruženja Rusije. Amerika nije baš poznata po teritorijalnom širenju. Zato sam i napomenuo da osvajački rat nekada i danas nisu baš iste stvari i da poređenja nisu zgodna.

Quote from: John Reynolds on 18-03-2011, 17:30:49
Ono što je najvažnije jeste može li se korsititi reč "agresija" ili ne.

Quote from: Lom on 18-03-2011, 17:23:43
  I ja isto mislim kao D. da su neki najveći kritizeri SAD na njihovom mestu isto bi se ponašali.

Quote from: MehoDobro, Treći Rajh je ipak imao logore smrti.

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 18-03-2011, 17:29:25
Heh heh, trilateralna komisija (http://www.cracked.com/article_17469_5-pathetic-groups-that-people-think-rule-world.html).

Quote from: D. on 18-03-2011, 17:33:25
Ma to ja od milja, nema nipodaštavanja... :)

Quote from: John Reynolds on 18-03-2011, 17:41:58

Quote from: MehoDobro, Treći Rajh je ipak imao logore smrti.

Prve "moderne" koncentracione logore gde su ljudi slati po nacionalnoj pripadnosti pravili su Englezi. Za Bure. Zanimljivo, Rudolf Hes je na suđenju to čak spominjao; nije da branim Nemce, ali logori su... tradicija. Imali su ih svi, pa i Amerikanci na svojoj teritoriji, gde su trpali ljude po rasnoj osnovi tokom WW2. Za razliku od većine civilizovanih država, SAD logore IMA I DAN DANAS. Jedan poznat, a bilo je i tajnih. Svi na tuđim teritorijama, a gde postoji američko vojno prisustvo.

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 18-03-2011, 17:37:18
U najboljem slučaju možemo da kažemo da bi možda trebalo da im damo šansu da nam pokažu da su drugačiji...

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 18-03-2011, 17:44:50
Ali sigurno uviđaš razliku između "koncentracionog logora" i "logora smrti"?

Quote
From rooftops, snipers kill 46 Yemeni protesters

Middle East unrest: Two killed at protest in Syria

Five killed in Bahrain protest, military imposes curfew

Saudi police open fire on pro-democracy protesters[\quote]

QuoteLibyan leader Colonel Gaddafi must obey the UN's demands or face military action, US President Barack Obama says.

Mr Obama said Thursday's UN resolution, which called for an immediate ceasefire, was not negotiable.

He said the entire region could be destabilised if Col Gaddafi was allowed to continue attacking his own people.

Earlier, the Gaddafi regime announced it had stopped fighting with the rebels, and promised to follow the UN security council resolution.

Mr Obama said Col Gaddafi's troops must pull back from rebel-held towns including Benghazi, and the authorities must allow in humanitarian aid.

"If he does not comply, the international community will impose consequences," said Mr Obama. "The resolution will be enforced by military action."

Quote from: Anomander Rejk on 18-03-2011, 19:42:09
Dakle Rusi nisu nikakve cvećke, ali podsetio bih da su u SSSR-u izgubili Krimsku oblast, strateški vrlo značajnu tačku, jer je prezident Hruščov dekretom pripojio Ukrajini. I to u zemlji s ruskom ,, dominacijom ''. Na slične stvari je upozorio John, teze o srpskoj dominaciji, itd.
Posle 45, ne verujem da broj ruskih vojnih intervencija prelazi 20, sve zaključno sa Gruzijom i Čečenijom. Kina još manje. Ameri su od 45 imali više od stotinu ratova, vojnih intervencija, pučeva itd. Pružali su podršku najreakcionarnijim svetskim režimima, finansirali odrede smrti u Salvadoru, svrgavanje Salvadora Aljendea i dolazak vojne hunte na vlast, itd. Bezbroj je primera.

Quote from: John Reynolds on 18-03-2011, 17:41:58Prve "moderne" koncentracione logore gde su ljudi slati po nacionalnoj pripadnosti pravili su Englezi. Za Bure.

Quote from: Lom on 19-03-2011, 03:28:31

Quote from: Anomander Rejk on 18-03-2011, 19:42:09
Dakle Rusi nisu nikakve cvećke, ali podsetio bih da su u SSSR-u izgubili Krimsku oblast, strateški vrlo značajnu tačku, jer je prezident Hruščov dekretom pripojio Ukrajini. I to u zemlji s ruskom ,, dominacijom ''. Na slične stvari je upozorio John, teze o srpskoj dominaciji, itd.
Posle 45, ne verujem da broj ruskih vojnih intervencija prelazi 20, sve zaključno sa Gruzijom i Čečenijom. Kina još manje. Ameri su od 45 imali više od stotinu ratova, vojnih intervencija, pučeva itd. Pružali su podršku najreakcionarnijim svetskim režimima, finansirali odrede smrti u Salvadoru, svrgavanje Salvadora Aljendea i dolazak vojne hunte na vlast, itd. Bezbroj je primera.

  Veliki je blam i za Rusiju i za Ukrajinu što su uopšte poželele da uzmu poluostrvo Krim u svoj sastav.
  Krim je oduvek bio tatarski. Ni ruski ni ukrajinski nego baš tatarski.
  A onda je došao Staljin i proterao Tatare u severnije delove SSSR-a uz moto: - Kakav je to način da tako primitivan i divlji narod živi na tako lepom mestu? Ne može. Zato se današnji Tatarstan nalazi blizu Urala, a onaj krimski više ne postoji.
  Kad su proterali Tatare onda nisu mogli da se odluče da li da Krim pripadne Ruskoj ili Ukrajinskoj socijalističkoj republici.
  Rusa je po tatarskom etničkom čišćenju bilo više, ali su Ukrajinci imali sreću što je predsednik SSSR-a posle Staljina - Hruščov bio na njihovoj strani pa je prevagnulo da bude Ukrajinski.
  Čiji kod da je Krim kao što i sama reč sticajem okolnosti kaže vrlo kriminalno područje. To je Sicilija bivšeg SSSR-a.

   Inače sad se javljaju glasovi, koji tvrde da svo zlo ovog sveta dolazi i USA. Paradoksalno je što su 2 ključna levičarska događaja (posle sveopštih revolucija) nastala u USA
 
  - PRVI MAJ - U Čikagu
  - OSMI MART - U Njujorku

  Dakle i borbu za osmočasovno radno vreme i za ženska prava poveli su, o gle čuda, Amerikanci.
  Ova dva događaja su najznačajnija za ljduska prava i levicu posle naravno, moje omiljene francuske revolucije.  :-)
  A boljševička revolucija je samo otišla u levu krajnost. Kamo sreće da je nije bilo. Sasvim su dovoljni francuski i skandinavski socijalizam.
 

Quote from: Father Jape on 19-03-2011, 03:51:32

Quote from: John Reynolds on 18-03-2011, 17:41:58Prve "moderne" koncentracione logore gde su ljudi slati po nacionalnoj pripadnosti pravili su Englezi. Za Bure.

Ovo je notorna... netacnost, koju sam samo cuo od ovdasnjih 'komentatora' poput Olivera Antica i slicnih.

Quote from: Lom on 19-03-2011, 03:28:31
  A onda je došao Staljin i proterao Tatare u severnije delove SSSR-a uz moto:

Quote from: Lom on 19-03-2011, 03:28:31

 Veliki je blam i za Rusiju i za Ukrajinu što su uopšte poželele da uzmu poluostrvo Krim u svoj sastav.
Krim je oduvek bio tatarski. Ni ruski ni ukrajinski nego baš tatarski.

Quote from: Anomander Rejk on 19-03-2011, 09:37:09... u pogledu prava žena su imali veliki napredak, žene su bile potpuno izjednačene sa muškarcima. ...

Quote from: varvarin on 19-03-2011, 13:09:36

Quote from: Lom on 19-03-2011, 03:28:31

Veliki je blam i za Rusiju i za Ukrajinu što su uopšte poželele da uzmu poluostrvo Krim u svoj sastav.
Krim je oduvek bio tatarski. Ni ruski ni ukrajinski nego baš tatarski.

Tako je!!
Još veći blam je što su naši preci uopšte prešli Dunav da se ovde nasele, kad su Vizantinci i Kelti ovde oduvek idilično živeli!!!

Inače malo si se zajebo - pre Tatara su na Krimu bili Goti (vidi Vikipediju, njoj veruješ  :) ), a pre Gota...

Quote from: Steva Lazin Ljuštikin on 19-03-2011, 13:39:28
A kraj sveta će biti Oktobra 2017. Woah!

Quote from: Josipovitch Broznjev on 19-03-2011, 13:43:18
gledao sam dokumentarac gdje otkrivaju kako im je cak i klitoris narastao do velicine penisa.

Quote from: Fata Životinjka on 19-03-2011, 15:16:08
Penis je prepreka pred umom, i um treba da mu bude zahvalan na izazovu.

Quote from: Fata Životinjka on 19-03-2011, 17:57:07
Pa tvoje objašnjenje ne mijenja činjenicu da je penis ključni element evolucije

Quote from: Fata Životinjka on 19-03-2011, 17:57:07
Osim ako ne dokažeš da su žene počele da kuju gvožđe ili su izmislile točak.

Quote from: Lom on 19-03-2011, 14:03:24

To nije isto.
Drugo su bitke početkom milenijuma i velike seobe.

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 19-03-2011, 19:08:19
Odvratno je sve to, zaista.

Možda odvratnije od toga je što ćemo mi, koji smo kroz to već prošli da ćutimo kao kurve da ne naljutimo svoje zapadne sponzore prijatelje umesto da predvodimo val protesta  :lol:

Quote from: Fata Životinjka on 19-03-2011, 21:18:59
pa jebote, pa Obama is undermining global peace!  :idea:

Obama može da bud eu pravu što se tiče Gadafijevih unutarpolitičkih stvari, ali u odnosu na međunarodni sistem Obama je taj koji ga narušava, mada tu nema ništa novo što se američkog intervencionizma tiče...

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 19-03-2011, 19:08:19
Možda odvratnije od toga je što ćemo mi, koji smo kroz to već prošli da ćutimo kao kurve da ne naljutimo svoje zapadne sponzore prijatelje umesto da predvodimo val protesta  :lol:

Quote from: D. on 19-03-2011, 22:23:48univerzalne vrednosti

Quote from: D. on 19-03-2011, 22:23:48
Ah, kako je lako zanemariti univerzalne vrednosti kada one ne odgovaraju našim ličnim stavovima, kompleksima i frustracijama. I kako je lako podržavati ih kada nije tako.

Quote from: Ljudina on 19-03-2011, 22:36:40
Jel moguće sad da krenu muslimani u francuskoj u kakve pobune ili samoubilačke napade
širom francuske i europe

Quote from: John Reynolds on 19-03-2011, 23:08:00
Rusima ovo odgovara po dva osnova. Imperija Zla ratuje dalje od njih (a taman su se spremali za Iran), a cena nafte će skočiti. Meni je veoma krivo zbog kurvinske politike Rusije i Kine, ali svako prvo gleda svoje dupe. Da se Gadafi na vreme naoružao, druga bi priča bila, ali da ponovim - nije naučio na Miloševićevom primeru. Možeš se Imperiji Zla uvlačiti koliko hoćeš, ona će raditi po svome. De Sad je dosta pisao o tome, ali ko još čita, pa još preko i razmišlja.

Quote from: John Reynolds on 19-03-2011, 15:41:06Jedino svako za sebe treba da proceni da li je trijumf volje vredan truda.

QuoteТРИПОЛИ – Више хиљада Либијаца формирало је данас људски штит у комплексу објеката либијског вође Моамера Гадафија у Триполију у покушају да спрече могуће ваздушне нападе.

Либијци из свих друштвених слојева пожурили су у комплекс Баб Ал-Азизијах узвикујући пароле и носећи портрете Гадафија, а на разгласу се чују песме у славу њиховог лидера.

,,Отац и мајка су ми рекли да ће авиони напасти комплекс па сам дошао да штитим нашег вођу", каже десетогодишњи Махмуд.

Влада је пустила стране новинаре у иначе затворени комплекс како би се видели да народ пружа подршку Гадафију.

Гадафијева ћерка Ајша је дошла у изненадну посету и стајала је на једном возилу док су је поздрављали.

Капије комплекса су отворене, људи и даље долазе, преноси Ројтерс.

,,Ту смо. Спремни смо да умремо за нашег вођу", каже Ом Абдел Кадир.

Овај велики комплекс у Триполију у коме се налазе и војне касарне био је 1986. године мета америчког бомбардовања Либије.

Председник Роналд Реган тада је рекао да је то у знак одмазде због умешаности Либије у бомбашки напад на берлински ноћни клуб.

Танјуг
објављено: 19/03/2011

Quote from: Fata Životinjka on 20-03-2011, 10:51:08
09:05: Japan podržao vojnu intervenciju u Libiji

Japan je danas podržao međunarodnu koaliciju koja je u subotu pokrenula vojnu intervenciju u Libiji i osudila represiju protesta u toj zemlji.

Quote from: Bata Trokrilni on 20-03-2011, 01:42:35
Škoti nas izdali :lol:

We must not allow Benghazi to be another Srebrenica

http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/guest-commentary/we-must-not-allow-benghazi-to-be-another-srebrenica-1.1091288 (http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/guest-commentary/we-must-not-allow-benghazi-to-be-another-srebrenica-1.1091288)

Quote from: Savajat Erp on 20-03-2011, 13:58:01

Quote from: Bata Trokrilni on 20-03-2011, 01:42:35
Škoti nas izdali :lol:

We must not allow Benghazi to be another Srebrenica

http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/guest-commentary/we-must-not-allow-benghazi-to-be-another-srebrenica-1.1091288 (http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/guest-commentary/we-must-not-allow-benghazi-to-be-another-srebrenica-1.1091288)

Келтске чкице и енглески сатрапи! Да су нешто вредели, сви би они и даље знали сопствени језик...:) :)

Quote from: Savajat Erp on 20-03-2011, 21:18:10
па ваљда гелик или како се већ зове?

Quote from: Savajat Erp on 20-03-2011, 21:34:03
Добро, и? Зашто су заборавили своје језике? Певај, тицо! :)

Quote from: Savajat Erp on 20-03-2011, 21:43:44
Па, сви они, рекох ли језик у множини? Ах, да јесам...То, тицо! (и не нисам те назвао тотицом)  :lol: :lol:

QuotePrime Minsiter David Cameron has told House of Commons that the UN coalition helped to avert what could have been a bloody massacre Benghazi "just in the nick of time". Skip related content


Mr Cameron said the strikes had been a success in crippling Colonel Gaddafi's air defences and confirmed that the coalition operation would soon move from US command to Nato-led command.

Speaking to clear up contradictory statements from MPs about whether the UN can remove Colonel Gaddafi from power, the Prime Minister said his own feelings were clear about the leader.

But he confirmed that it is up to the Libyan people to rid themselves of their leader.

Mr Cameron also reiterated his previous comment that the action in Libya was legal and said world leaders in Paris on Friday had the support of Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, Iraq, Jordan and Morocco.

Opposition leader Ed Miliband also lent his support to Britain's role in the UN strikes, saying the action was "a just cause, a feasible mission and had international support".

Mr Cameron hit back at critics who believed action was taken too quickly, saying the rebels in Libya were running out of time, particularly as Colonel Gaddafi had said he would show "no mercy" in Benghazi.

If Colonel Gaddafi was allowed to crush the revolution, Europe would be left with a pariah state festering on its border and exporting terrorism, said Mr Cameron, who insisted action in Libya is in the British national interest.

"The people of Lockerbie know what this man is capable of," he added.

Referring to fears that the UK could be caught up in military action in north Africa indefinitely, the Prime Minister stood by the UN resolution, saying the UK would be involved until the resolution was completed.

More to follow...

QuoteAirstrikes which have pounded Libya for the past two days have been "highly effective" and halted Colonel Gaddafi's march on the rebel stronghold of Benghazi, UK defence officials say.

Speaking at a Ministry of Defence news briefing, Major General John Lorimer said: "We are satisfied that our attacks and those of our partners have been highly effective in degrading the Libyan air defence and command and control capability."

The MoD said coalition bombing raids had forced pro-Gaddafi forces to retreat from Benghazi, but there was evidence elsewhere that assaults were being stepped up.

The Reuters wire agency said that a resident in Misratah reported that at least nine people have killed by pro-Gaddafi forces in the western Libyan city today.

Meanwhile, according to a spokesman for the US Africa command, only 10 to 12 missiles were fired overnight, compared to around 110 missiles launched when action stated on March 19.

"We spent the first 24 hours establishing conditions for a no-fly zone and are now transitioning over to a patrol posture," spokesman Vince Crawley said.

Mr Cameron, speaking in the House of Commons this afternoon, told MPs that Libyan air defences have largely been "neutralised".

He also stressed of greater Arab involvement in the alliance and Libyans deciding on the future of Col Gaddafi.

"I certainly want to build and maintain the widest possible coalition," he said.

"The Libyans need to choose their own future."

During allied airstrikes last night, Libyan officials said an administrative building at the heart of Col Gaddafi's compound was destroyed by a cruise missile.

Described by a coalition official as one of the Libyan leader's "command and control" facility, it was later confirmed to have been targeted by a Royal Navy submarine.

The building was about 50 yards from the iconic tent where Col Gaddafi meets guests in Tripoli.

Smoke was seen rising from within the heavily fortified compound which houses his private quarters as well as military barracks and other installations.

Defence Secretary Liam Fox has suggested that Col Gaddafi is himself a target, despite Pentagon spokesman William Gortney saying: "We are not going after Gaddafi."

However, a senior UK military source confirmed to Sky News this morning that Libya's commander in chief is "a legitimate military target".

The AP later reported that a rebel envoy said the Libyan opposition didn't want Col Gaddafi killed by Western-led strikes as they wanted to oust and try the dictator in a court of law.

Sky's foreign affairs correspondent Lisa Holland, reporting from Tripoli under the supervision of the Libyan government, said the regime was in no doubt that it was being "specifically targeted".

"Col Gaddafi's regime is absolutely furious," Holland said.

"The international community's position, as far as the regime is concerned, is that Colonel Gaddafi is not a target, but they say that any missile that goes near his compound is an attempt to take him out."

Libyan officials took reporters into the area this morning to show them the three-storey building in ruins along with shrapnel apparently from the missile.

It was unclear where Col Gaddafi was at the time of the strike. The attack was part of a renewed allied assault on Libya involving sub-surface and air assets.

A Trafalgar-class submarine stationed in the Mediterranean fired Tomahawk missiles at air defence targets for a second night, the Ministry of Defence said.

A separate mission with RAF Tornado jets from RAF Marham in Norfolk was aborted during darkness after it emerged there were civilians within the target area, the MoD added.

In the eastern rebel stronghold of Benghazi fighting has continued between rebels and pro-Gaddafi troops.

Sky correspondent Emma Hurd, in Benghazi, said: "Last night, there was a heavy fire-fight in the city. The rebels say they came under attack from pro-Gaddafi elements and they sense there is an enemy from within.

"There is also broad confusion among the rebels about what support they can expect under the UN Security Council resolution, and if they advance from Benghazi, what level of air support will be provided by allied forces."

US forces, who have taken the lead in the coalition action so far, said radar and air defence installations have been destroyed along with a military control tower.

The Pentagon said that as a result Col Gaddafi's capacity to deploy his attack helicopters and aircraft has been removed, and the skies are safer for coalition aircraft to police the no-fly zone.

The onslaught on Gaddafi's forces continued despite two ceasefires announced by the Libyan authorities, which were treated with suspicion in London and Washington.

Downing Street said on Sunday that Col Gaddafi remained in breach of his obligations under last week's UN resolution, which the coalition would continue to enforce.

"Everyone will recall that in recent days Colonel Gaddafi declared a ceasefire which was promptly violated," said a spokesman for Number 10.

"We said then we would judge him on his actions not his words - and we will do so again."

RAF Typhoons are now in place at the southern Italian air base of Gioia del Colle, after deploying from RAF Coningsby in Lincolnshire to be within easy range of Libya.

Planes from Arab state Qatar, as well as Belgium, Denmark and Spain, have arrived to join Britain, France, Canada and the US in patrolling the no-fly zone.

MPs will today be given a vote in the House of Commons on Britain's involvement in the Libyan mission.

With all three major party leaders firmly behind the operation, only a handful of MPs are expected to voice opposition.

The UN Security Council will hold closed-door consultations on the Libyan situation later today, diplomats said.

US defence secretary Robert Gates has said he expects the US to hand over command of the mission to a coalition - Mr Cameron told the Commons that coalition would be Nato.

Libyan state TV claimed that at least 60 civilians were killed and more than 100 wounded since the allied action started on Saturday.

However, the claims were dismissed by the US as propaganda and the Ministry of Defence said there was no evidence of any civilian casualties.

There were signs of unease in the Arab world over the scale and nature of the attacks.

Arab League secretary general Amr Moussa said on Sunday: "What has happened in Libya differs from the goal of imposing a no-fly zone. What we want is the protection of civilians and not bombing other civilians."

However, on Monday he said that the group respected the UN resolution and there was "no conflict with it.

QuoteMinisters appear at odds with military chiefs over whether coalition forces can legitimately target Colonel Muammar Gaddafi.

Liam Fox suggested he could be directly attacked as part of the allies' intervention and William Hague also failed to rule it out.

Downing Street sources also insisted it was legal to target anyone killing Libyan civilians.

But the Chief of the Defence Staff General Sir David Richards flatly declared it was not allowed under the terms of the UN Resolution.

After a meeting of the sub-committee of the National Security Council at No10, he was adamant it was not permitted to attack Col Gaddafi.

He said: "Absolutely not. It is not allowed under the UN resolution and it is not something I want to discuss any further."

The Defence Secretary was also directly contradicted by the US who stressed no one is "going after" the Libyan leader.

US Defence Secretary Robert Gates warned that calls to target the Libyan leader could undermine the cohesion of the international coalition supporting the no-fly zone.

"If we start adding additional objectives then I think we create a problem in that respect," he said.

"I also think it is unwise to set as specific goals things that you may or may not be able to achieve."

Mr Fox's remarks risk damaging international support for the allied mission and alienating the Arab League, whose support is crucial.

The UN resolution allows "all necessary measures" to protect Libyan civilians, but does not mention regime change and rules out a foreign occupation.

David Cameron will be pressed on the exact aim of the strikes in a debate on the military action in the House of Commons this afternoon.

Most MPs support the action, although there will be tough questioning from those who see parallels with the Iraq War.

Sixteen, including two Lib Dems, have signed an early day motion expressing doubt it will lead to democracy.

A Labour source told Sky News they will focus questions on whether the support of the Arab League is faltering, if ground troops will be used and what the exit strategy is.

MPs are also expected to quiz the Government about the desire for regime change and whether the removal of Colonel Gaddafi is the end game.

Meanwhile, Libya was rocked by air strikes for a second night and a building in Col Gaddafi's compound, containing around 300 of his supporters, destroyed.

The leader announced a ceasefire last night but it has been treated with suspicion in London and Washington.

Downing Street said that Gaddafi remained in breach of his obligations under the United Nations resolution, which the coalition would continue to enforce.

There are growing questions about exactly how the allies' involvement will come to an end, with the threat of a debilitating stalemate a real possibility.

Britain has ruled out the use of ground troops but some Cabinet members have hinted this could change. George Osborne said it was only ruled out "for the moment".

Mr Fox's comments further muddied the waters. "Mission accomplished would mean the Libyan people free to control their own destiny," he said.

"This is very clear - the international community wants his regime to end and wants the Libyan people to control for themselves their own country."

He added: "Regime change is not an objective, but it may come about as a result of what is happening amongst the people of Libya... If Colonel Gaddafi went, not every eye would be wet."

The Defence Secretary suggested Col Gaddafi could become a target for air strikes.

"There is a difference between someone being a legitimate target and whether we go ahead and target him," he said.

"You would have to take into account what would happen to civilians in the area, what might happen in terms of collateral damage.

"We don't simply with a gung-ho attitude start firing off missiles."

Mr Hague attempted to steady the line today, by insisting the military intervention would be "nothing more, nothing less" than the UN mandate required.

However, the Foreign Secretary also refused to rule out taking out Colonel Gaddafi, stating "it all depends how people behave".

A senior UK military source has now told Sky News that, as the head of the Libyan forces, Col Gaddafi is a "legitimate military target".

Shadow Cabinet minister Jim Murphy called Dr Fox "irresponsible" and a "rogue" who "should be put back in his box".

The US rejected the idea of targeting the leader out of hand. US Navy vice-admiral Bill Gortney said: "We are not going after Gaddafi."

US Defence Secretary Robert Gates has also made clear his country will not play a "pre-eminent role" in Libya, leaving Britain and France to take the lead.

Russia, one of five countries to abstain in the UN Security Council vote last week, has also weighed in - attacking what it claimed was 'indiscriminate use of force'.

More worryingly, the Arab League - who could be crucial to the mission's success and supported the no-fly zone - has now criticised the severity of the attacks.

Its Secretary General Amr Moussa said: "What is happening in Libya differs from the aim of imposing a no-fly zone, and what we want is the protection of civilians and not the bombardment of more civilians."

However he later said they respect the UN Resolution.

"We asked the United Nations to implement a no-fly zone and we respect the UN resolution and there is no conflict with it," he said.

"It is for protecting civilians and that is what we care about. We will continue to work on the protection of civilians."

Quote from: Stipan on 21-03-2011, 20:06:13
Pa šta će logika nekome ko ima onakvu vojnu silu?! To će im trebati tek kad budu imali nekog ravnopravnog protivnika. Zasad su dovoljni nosači aviona i stratosferski bombarderi.

QuoteMr Cameron also reiterated his previous comment that the action in Libya was legal and said world leaders in Paris on Friday had the support of Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, Iraq, Jordan and Morocco.

Quote from: Harvester on 21-03-2011, 21:23:27
Putin bi trebalo da skloni tog Medvedeva, previše se liže sa onim čokoladnim nobelovcem i ostalom stokom.

Quote from: John Reynolds on 22-03-2011, 10:01:59Sprečavanje budućnosti je svetski trend.

QuoteBy RYAN LUCAS, Associated Press Ryan Lucas, Associated Press – Tue Mar 22, 1:12 am ET
ZWITINA, Libya – Coalition forces bombarded Libya for a third straight night, targeting the air defenses and forces of Libyan ruler Moammar Gadhafi, stopping his advances and handing some momentum back to the rebels, who were on the verge of defeat just last week.

But the rebellion's more organized military units were still not ready, and the opposition disarray underscored U.S. warnings that a long stalemate could emerge.

The air campaign by U.S. and European militaries has unquestionably rearranged the map in Libya and rescued rebels from the immediate threat they faced only days ago of being crushed under a powerful advance by Gadhafi's forces. The first round of airstrikes smashed a column of regime tanks that had been moving on the rebel capital of Benghazi in the east.

Monday night, Libyan state TV said a new round of strikes had begun in the capital, Tripoli, marking the third night of bombardment. But while the airstrikes can stop Gadhafi's troops from attacking rebel cities — in line with the U.N. mandate to protect civilians — the United States, at least, appeared deeply reluctant to go beyond that toward actively helping the rebel cause to oust the Libyan leader.

President Barack Obama said Monday that "it is U.S. policy that Gadhafi has to go." But, he said, the international air campaign has a more limited goal, to protect civilians.

"Our military action is in support of an international mandate from the Security Council that specifically focuses on the humanitarian threat posed by Col. Gadhafi to his people. Not only was he carrying out murders of civilians but he threatened more," the president said on a visit to Chile.

In Washington, the American general running the assault said there is no attempt to provide air cover for rebel operations. Gen. Carter Ham said Gadhafi might cling to power once the bombardment finishes, setting up a stalemate between his side and the rebels, with allied nations enforcing a no-fly zone to ensure he cannot attack civilians.

At the United Nations Monday, the Security Council turned down a request by Libya for an emergency session. Libya wanted "an emergency meeting in order to halt this aggression."

Henri Guaino, a top adviser to the French president, said the allied effort would last "a while yet."

Among the rebels, as well, there was a realization that fighting could be drawn out. Mohammed Abdul-Mullah, a 38-year-old civil engineer from Benghazi who was fighting with the rebel force, said government troops stopped all resistance after the international campaign began.

"The balance has changed a lot," he said. "But pro-Gadhafi forces are still strong. They are a professional military and they have good equipment. Ninety percent of us rebels are civilians, while Gadhafi's people are professional fighters."

Disorganization among the rebels could also hamper their attempts to exploit the turn of events. Since the uprising began, the opposition has been made up of disparate groups even as it took control of the entire east of the country.

Regular citizens — residents of the "liberated" areas — took up arms and formed a ragtag, highly enthusiastic but highly undisciplined force that in the past weeks has charged ahead to fight Gadhafi forces, only to be beaten back by superior firepower. Regular army units that joined the rebellion have proven stronger, more organized fighters, but only a few units have joined the battles while many have stayed behind as officers struggle to get together often antiquated, limited equipment and form a coordinated force.

Discord also plagued the coalition. The U.S. was eager to pass leadership off, but the allies were deeply divided on the issue. Turkey was adamantly against NATO taking charge, while Italy hinted Monday it would stop allowing use of its airfields if the veteran alliance is not given the leadership. Germany and Russia also criticized the way the mission is being carried out.

The British parliament lent clear support, voting 557 to 13 in favor of using armed forces to enforce the Security Council resolution to use "all necessary measures" to protect civilians in Libya.

In Libya, a "political leadership" has formed among the rebels, made up of former members of Gadhafi's regime who defected along with prominent local figures in the east, such as lawyers and doctors. The impromptu nature of their leadership has left some in the West — particularly in the United States — unclear on who the rebels are.

The disarray among the opposition was on display on Monday.

With Benghazi relieved, several hundred of the "citizen fighters" barreled to the west, vowing to break a siege on the city of Ajdabiya by Gadhafi forces, which have been pounding a rebel force holed up inside the city since before the allied air campaign began. The fighters pushed without resistance down the highway from Benghazi — littered with the burned out husks of Gadhafi's tanks and armored personnel carriers hit in the airstrikes — until they reached the outskirts of Ajdabiya.

Along the way, they swept into the nearby oil port of Zwitina, just northeast of Ajdabiya, which was also the scene of heavy fighting last week — though now had been abandoned by regime forces. There, a power station hit by shelling on Thursday was still burning, its blackened fuel tank crumpled, with flames and black smoke pouring out.

Some of the fighters, armed with assault rifles, grenade launchers and truck-mounted anti-aircraft guns, charged to the city outskirts and battled with Gadhafi forces in the morning. A number of rebels were killed before they were forced to pull back somewhat, said the spokesman for the rebels' organized military forces, Khalid al-Sayah.

Al-Sayah said the fighters' advance was spontaneous "as always." But the regular army units that have joined the rebellion are not yet ready to go on the offensive. "We don't want to advance without a plan," he told AP in Benghazi. "If it were up to the army, the advance today would not have happened."

He said the regular units intend to advance but not yet, saying it was not yet ready. "It's a new army, we're starting it from scratch."

By Monday afternoon, around 150 citizen-fighters were massed in a field of dunes several miles (kilometers) outside Ajdabiya. Some stood on the wind-swept dunes with binoculars to survey the positions of pro-Gadhafi forces sealing off the entrances of the city. Ajdabiya itself was visible, black smoke rising, apparently from fires burning from fighting in recent days.

"There are five Gadhafi tanks and eight rocket launchers behind those trees and lots of 4x4s," one rebel fighter, Fathi Obeidi, standing on a dune and pointing at a line of trees between his position and the city, told an Associated Press reporter at the scene.

Gadhafi forces have ringed the city's entrance and were battling with opposition fighters inside, rebels said. The plan is for the rebel forces from Benghazi "to pinch" the regime troops while "those inside will push out," Obeidi said. He said a special commando unit that defected to the opposition early on in the uprising was inside the city leading the defense.

Regime troops are also besieging a second city — Misrata, the last significant rebel-held territory in western Libya. According to reports from Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya, new fighting erupted Monday at Misrata, Libya's third-largest city, which the forces have shelled repeatedly over recent days while cutting off most food and water supplies to residents.

So far, allied bombardment has concentrated on knocking out Libyan air defenses, but a significant test of international intentions will be whether eventually the strikes by ship-fired cruise missiles and warplanes will try to break the sieges of Ajdabiya and Misrata by targeting the Gadhafi troops surrounding them.

Al-Sayah said there had been allied strikes against Gadhafi positions outside Ajdabiya early Monday, but there was no independent confirmation, and the troops were still in place Monday afternoon.

Ali Zeidan, an envoy to Europe from the opposition-created governing council, told The Associated Press that rebels want to drive Gadhafi from power and see him tried — not have him killed. He said that while airstrikes have helped, the opposition needs more weapons to win the fight.

"We are able to deal with Gadhafi's forces by ourselves" as long as it's a fair fight, he said in Paris. "You see, Gadhafi himself, we are able to target him, and we would like to have him alive to face the international or the Libyan court for his crime .... We don't like to kill anybody ... even Gadhafi himself."

At the Pentagon, Ham said Monday afternoon that during the previous 24 hours, U.S. and British forces launched 12 Tomahawk land attack missiles, targeting regime command-and-control facilities and a missile facility and attacking one air defense site that already had been attacked.

"Through a variety of reports, we know that regime ground forces that were in the vicinity of Benghazi now possess little will or capability to resume offensive operations," he said.

A spokesman for the French military, whose warplanes have been conducting strikes in the Benghazi region, said there is a "very clear scale-down in the intensity of combat and, therefore, threats to the population" because of the bombardment.

"There still are pro-Gadhafi elements in the zone where we're working. Nevertheless, these elements haven't necessarily been dealt with because they are mixed in, for example with the civilian population," Thierry Burkhard said.

___

Associated Press writers Hadeel al-Shalchi in Tripoli, Libya, Diaa Hadid in Cairo, Jamey Keaten and Cecile Brisson in Paris, and Lolita C. Baldor and Robert Burns in Washington contributed to this report.

QuotePresident Barack Obama, speaking in Santiago, Chile on Monday, defended his decision to order U.S. strikes against Libyan military targets, and insisted that the mission is clear.

And like a parade of Pentagon officials the past few days, Obama insisted that the United States' lead military role will be turned over—"in days, not weeks"—to an international command of which the United States will be just one part.

The only problem: None of the countries in the international coalition can yet agree on to whom or how the United States should hand off responsibilities.

The sense of urgency among White House officials to resolve the command dispute is profound: with each hour the U.S. remains in charge of yet another Middle East military intervention, Congress steps up criticism that Obama went to war in Libya without first getting its blessing, nor defining precisely what the end-game will be. (On Monday, Obama sent Congress official notification that he had ordered the U.S. military two days earlier to commence operations "to prevent humanitarian catastrophe" in Libya and support the international coalition implementing UN Security Council Resolution 1973.)

Below, an explainer on the military mission in Libya, the dispute over who should command it after its initial phase, and whether the military is concerned about mission creep.

What is the U.S. military task in Libya?

The military mission in Libya is implementing U.N. Security Council Resolution 1973, which calls for Gadhafi's forces to pull back from rebel-held towns, and the establishment of a no-fly zone to protect Libyan civilians from attack by Gadhafi, and for civilians to be allowed access to food, water and other humanitarian supplies.

Is the U.S. military trying to kill Gadhafi?

No, the U.S. military is not authorized to kill Gadhafi, said Gen. Carter Ham, the commander of U.S. African Command at a press conference in Stuttgart, Germany, Monday. Ham's command is currently leading the first phase of the international coalition effort to establish a no-fly zone in Libya, together with the United Kingdom and France. Nor is the U.S. military currently coordinating with anti-Gadhafi rebels or authorized to provide them military support, Ham said.

The main objective, Ham stressed, is to protect civilians from attack. "The military mission is very clear, frankly. What is expected of us to do is establish a no fly zone to protect civilians, to get withdrawal of regime ground forces out of Benghazi," Ham said. "What we look forward to is the transition to designating the headquarters" of the command of the next phase of operations.

How can the coalition reconcile a military mission that could leave Gadhafi in power with the many calls for his removal?

On Monday, Obama answered this by underlining the language of UN Security Council resolution 1973, which calls for protecting civilians from attack. That narrow military mission is distinct, Obama said, from the larger political goal of seeing Gadhafi step down—a call that Obama himself has repeatedly echoed, along with other major Western diplomatic players such as Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and French President Nicolas Sarkozy. The international community has other non-military tools to achieve that goal, Obama said, such as economic sanctions, diplomatic isolation, international war crimes investigation, and cutting off the Gadhafi regime's access to financial assets abroad.

"First of all, I think it is very easy to square our military actions and our stated policies," Obama said in Chile Monday. "Our military action is in support of an international mandate from the UN Security Council that specifically focuses on the humanitarian threat posed by Gadhafi to his people."

Who is currently commanding the international military coalition?

U.S. African Command (AFRICOM), the U.S. regional military command dealing with the continent of Africa, and its commander Gen. Carter Ham, are leading the first phase of what the Pentagon has dubbed  "Operation Odyssey Dawn" to suppress Libya's air defenses to establish a no-fly zone over Libya.

Other early members of the international coalition imposing a no-fly zone over Libya include France and the United Kingdom, joined Monday by Belgium and Canada.

Ham and other Pentagon officials have said the U.S. is eager to turn over the lead role in the operation to international coalition partners, but as yet the command of the next phase has not been agreed.

What's really at issue in the dispute over who should command the next phase of the international mission over Libya?

Put simply, the members of the international coalition are at odds over whether the international coalition command should be led by NATO, or not.

The French, Turks, and Germans reportedly object to NATO running the operation, all for their own reasons. The Italians, the UK, and the United States, among others, think that NATO is best equipped to be able to take swift control of the mission.

"There is not only one problem. Each player has its own perspective, sensitivity, priority," said one European defense official on condition of anonymity given the sensitivity of the dispute Monday. "You have the weak, the prudent, the strong, the opportunists."

"The problem is, the Italians are calling for it to be a NATO operation, but it's not clear all members of NATO support this," said Anthony Cordesman, a veteran defense analyst at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. "It's also clear that the French initiated part of this operation. And behind it is the reality that it is only the United States that has the combination of satellite targeting and precision strike capabilities in terms of cruise missiles that are critical to overall command and control and situational awareness."

Why do the French and others object to a possible NATO command structure?

"There are technical considerations and political ones," said Justin Vaisse, of the Brookings Institution Center for the United States and Europe. Sarkozy has two basic objection, Vaisse explains: "One, NATO is radioactive in the Arab world and seen as a tool of US imperialism. And two, there's also the question of not having Turkey and Germany [who have expressed reservations about the Libya military mission], impede" the international mission in Libya, given that NATO is a consensus organization.

Turkey reportedly resents that French president Sarkozy did not invite Turkish prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan to his Paris summit on Libya Saturday with other world leaders. (The perceived insult is "completely absurd," a French official said, explaining that the summit was open to any country interested in implementing the Libya UN resolution, and France did not "send 200 invites to all members of the UN." A Turkish official said the Ankara would have gladly sent a representative had they been invited.)

Germany reportedly is not interested in participating in a military mission in Libya, but could opt-out but approve NATO being otherwise involved.

NATO ambassadors met in Brussels Monday to debate the issue.

When is the command issue likely to be resolved?

U.S. officials insist it has to be resolved soon--"days, not weeks," as Deputy National Security Advisor for Strategic Communications Ben Rhodes said Sunday.

"I would not put a date certain on this," Gen. Carter Ham said Monday. "The first thing that has got to happen is identification of what that organization is. We have been from the start planning how to effect this transition once that follow-on headquarters is established. It's not so simple as to have a handshake and say, 'you're now in charge.' "

Does the top U.S. commander worry about mission creep?

"No, I don't worry too much about mission creep," Ham said after a pause Monday. "I think the mission is clear, and moving forward and achieving the military objectives consistent with our mission."

(A group of protesters angry about international intervention in Libya blocked the path of U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon as he left a meeting at the Arab League.: Nasser Nasser/AP)

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 22-03-2011, 11:35:13
Mi se zajebavamo, ali sprečavanje budućnosti, to jest preventivo delovanje da bi se sprečili zločini protiv čovečnosti je maltene direktna posledica (ili makar razvoj u geopolitičkoj filozofiji) srebreničkog masakra i opsade Sarajeva (i, dakako masakra u Ruandi). Da ne ulazimo sad u to kako su se ovi događaji stvarno odigra(va)li, fakat je da prosečan zapadnjak (koji je toga svega uopšte svestan) smatra da je Zapad bio suviše spor da reaguje, da je uvažavao te neke unutrašnje suverenosti i pičke materine, koje su samo korišćene kao izgovor da diktatori i krvožedni militaristi ostvare političke ciljeve preko tela civila.

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 22-03-2011, 11:35:13
Mi se zajebavamo, ali sprečavanje budućnosti, to jest preventivo delovanje da bi se sprečili zločini protiv čovečnosti...
Ali čisto filozofski gledano, ovaj koncept ide ruku pod ruku sa razvojem zapadne civilizacije koja u ovom trenutku reklo bi se smatra da je ljudski život vrednost po sebi i da je iznad drugih vrednosti. Da li se sa time slažemo? To je tema za razgovor...
Biće zanimljivo istražiti odakle pobunjenicima vojno naoružanje i mehanizacija. Plus, oni tvrde da su 90% civili, pa je isto pitanje odakle im ekspertiza za korišćenje istog.

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 22-03-2011, 12:23:05
Znam ja da mi ovde ne cenimo ljudski život iznad svega, samo sam proveravao temperaturu glasačkog tela  :lol:

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 22-03-2011, 11:35:13
Koncept preventivnog delovanja da bi se sprečili zločini nad civilima, a koje nadilazi poštovanje unutrašnje suverenosti prilično je dobro utemeljen u poslednjih petnaestak godina. Rusi su ga takođe rado prizvali onomad kada su upali u Gruziju da spreče "genocid koji se događa u Južnoj Osetiji".

Da li je to dobro... Pa, svakako nije kada se koristi samo kao izgovor da bi se ostvarili drugi geopolitički ciljevi (američka baza na Kosovu, pristup libijskoj Nafti ili šta već...). Ali čisto filozofski gledano, ovaj koncept ide ruku pod ruku sa razvojem zapadne civilizacije koja u ovom trenutku reklo bi se smatra da je ljudski život vrednost po sebi i da je iznad drugih vrednosti. Da li se sa time slažemo? To je tema za razgovor...

Quote from: Bata Trokrilni on 22-03-2011, 13:32:13
Danas se vodi više ratova nego ikad otkad je svijeta i vijeka. Ispade da su se ljudi mnogo manje ubijali kada život nije bio ''univerzalna vrednost''. Razmislite malo o tome.

Quote from: scallop on 22-03-2011, 14:19:54
Pa, ako potraje... Koncentracija je visoka. Dva krstareća projektila po žrtvi! Samo prave štetu naokolo. Stoka je to, moj Meho. Kad su nama bacili grafitna vlakna da izazovu prekid struje, morao sam da držim kanistere i lavore sa vodom na terasi. Kenjenje po spisku im nikada neću oprostiti.

Quote from: Bata Trokrilni on 22-03-2011, 14:26:44
Meho, pa WW takođe pripada diskursu ''svetog ljudskog života'', to što su nacisti dopisali ''svetog njemačkog života'' ne mijenja stvar. Veliko je pitanje koliko se zapravo razlikuju ideologije i metodi Amerikanaca i Njemaca, da li su razlike kvantitativne ili kvalitativne?

George Carlin je to genijalno sročio: In WWII Germany lost but fascism won.

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 22-03-2011, 14:51:08
Sve to stoji, nije to sporno, ali opet se vraćam na ono da Amerikanci imaju Gvantanamo, ali nemaju Aušvic, da su po Afganistanu bacakali MOAB na raju, ali da nisu streljali sto za jednoga itd.

Quote from: John Reynolds on 22-03-2011, 13:37:07
U koliko je ratova korišćeno WMD i ko ga je koristio?

Quote from: Bata Trokrilni on 22-03-2011, 13:43:51
Možda činjenica da su ''univerzalne vrednosti'' i ''oružje za masovno uništenje'' stvoreni u ISTOJ ZEMLJI imaju neke veze sa tom činjenicom...

Quote from: Bata Trokrilni on 22-03-2011, 13:43:51
Usput, količina i kvalitet oružja ne može da utiče na BROJ RATOVA (koji je danas najveći ikada), štaviše, atomska bomba je spriječila rat između SSSRa i SADa, dakle sama varijabla o oružju je složenija i nestabilnija.

Quote from: Bata Trokrilni on 22-03-2011, 13:43:51
S druge strane, činjenica je da DRŽANJE DO KONCEPTA KAO PIJAN PLOTA nije smanjilo već uvećalo stradanja na ovoj planeti.

QuotePodložnost manipulaciji konceptom nije sporna, i nije sporno da se to dešavalo.

QuotePa to u slučaju da je vojna industrija osmislila i univerzalne vrednosti.

Quote from: Bata Trokrilni on 22-03-2011, 15:09:46
To je vjerovatnije nego da je neki dobrica prije 500 godina sjeo i napisao ''iskreno'' i iz ''duše'' koliko voli čovječanstvo.

Quote from: Bata Trokrilni on 22-03-2011, 15:09:46
Samo kažem, dosta licemjerja.

Quote from: D. on 22-03-2011, 13:33:56

Quote from: Bata Trokrilni on 22-03-2011, 13:32:13
Danas se vodi više ratova nego ikad otkad je svijeta i vijeka. Ispade da su se ljudi mnogo manje ubijali kada život nije bio ''univerzalna vrednost''. Razmislite malo o tome.

Možda razvoj oružja (za masovno uništenje) i njegova hiper produkcija imaju neke veze sa ovom činjenicom...

Quote from: D. on 22-03-2011, 15:15:20Ako propišeš ljudski život kao prvu vrednost, time štitiš i svoj život.

Quoteini mi se da ne možeš da opovrgavaš altruizam nekog koncepta u jednoj prilici, a da ga tražiš u drugoj.

Quote from: John Reynolds on 22-03-2011, 14:55:54

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 22-03-2011, 14:51:08
Sve to stoji, nije to sporno, ali opet se vraćam na ono da Amerikanci imaju Gvantanamo, ali nemaju Aušvic, da su po Afganistanu bacakali MOAB na raju, ali da nisu streljali sto za jednoga itd.

Hoćeš reći, od dva zla, ovo sad je nešto manje... Pa... Dobro...

Quote from: Anomander Rejk on 22-03-2011, 15:21:03
Nisu imali Aušvic, ali su ( po meni, opet ograđujem se, moje subjektivno mišljenje ) počinili najstrašniji zločin u istoriji čovečanstva, tehnički su ubili najviše ljudi za najkraće vreme ( Hirošima i Nagasaki 45, oko 200 000 za dva dana ), plus generacije koje su kasnije ispaštale.

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 22-03-2011, 16:00:12
To su sad možda filozofske dileme, ali masovno ubistvo koje su Amerikanci počinili i koje je nastavilo da nanosi patnju kroz generacije je sa jedne strane a projekat uništenja čitave etničke grupe je sa druge strane i meni ta druga strana deluje kao veće zlo. Ali možda sam to samo ja.

Quote from: D. on 22-03-2011, 15:47:58
Pa nije život propis, nego vrednost. Time štitiš vrednost, a sa njom i živote.

"Prestanak licemerja" je altruistički koncept.

Vrlo često se dešava da neko nekom pokušava da oduzme život (ko bi rekao?:)). Pravo na život ne daje ti "dozvolu da živiš" već te štiti od (budućih) napada i sankcioniše oduzimanja života.

Quote from: scallop on 22-03-2011, 16:09:40
"koju svi vidimo kao bolju" Ma, ne vidimo je.

"stvari se ipak kreću u nekom smeru, to se istorijski vidi."  Ne kreću se i ne vidi se.

Da dođu u škripac ni čas ne bi oklevali da unište svet. Toga se najviše i bojim, jer neminovno je da u taj škripac dođu. Čitav njihov koncept je suicidalan i zasniva se na principu Margaret Mičel - Sutra je novi dan. Ne dam ni cvonjka za taj koncept.

Quote from: scallop on 22-03-2011, 16:09:40
"koju svi vidimo kao bolju" Ma, ne vidimo je.

"stvari se ipak kreću u nekom smeru, to se istorijski vidi."  Ne kreću se i ne vidi se.

Da dođu u škripac ni čas ne bi oklevali da unište svet. Toga se najviše i bojim, jer neminovno je da u taj škripac dođu.

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 22-03-2011, 16:00:12To su sad možda filozofske dileme, ali masovno ubistvo koje su Amerikanci počinili i koje je nastavilo da nanosi patnju kroz generacije je sa jedne strane a projekat uništenja čitave etničke grupe je sa druge strane i meni ta druga strana deluje kao veće zlo. Ali možda sam to samo ja.

Quote from: Bata Trokrilni on 22-03-2011, 16:20:27

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 22-03-2011, 16:00:12To su sad možda filozofske dileme, ali masovno ubistvo koje su Amerikanci počinili i koje je nastavilo da nanosi patnju kroz generacije je sa jedne strane a projekat uništenja čitave etničke grupe je sa druge strane i meni ta druga strana deluje kao veće zlo. Ali možda sam to samo ja.

ja baš rekoh da je to Past Tense.

Ako već tvrdiš da ''zapadna civilizacija ipak ide unapred, to jest da ovi danas nisu isti kao oni od pre pedeset ili petsto godina i da nisu ni gori od njih nego bolji'', onda je Hitler odavno fusnota a gorući problem je postao neko drugi.

Dakle, to da li zapadna civilizacija danas bolja nego rpije petsto godina je irelevatno (ja npr mislim da to nije tačno ali nevažno je za ovu temu), ali ona ne mrda sa mjesta na kojem je stajala prije 70 godina, a Hitlera odavno nema.

Dakle, kada će zapadna civilizacija da napokon krene napred? Jer ona i dalje sebe posmatra kao objektivnog posmatrača i nepristrasnog sudiju, iako to odavno nije istina, štaviše, u skladu sa svim ovim ''konceptima'' možda napokon treba suditi sudiji?

A to je danas nemoguće unutar evrocentričnog koncepta.

nije nemoguće dokazati da je danas upravo zapadna civilizacija kočnica progresa što se univerzalnosti ljudskih prava tiče, ali od revizionizma nema koristi, zato su postmodernisti i namjerno pisali čovjek je mrtav, autor je mrtav iako su i sami bili ljudi. Postavlja se pitanje da li je upravo zapadna civlizacija danas zaostala?

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 22-03-2011, 16:18:12
Dobro, svi osim Skalopa koji kontrira samo iz inata. Skalop ne misli ozbiljno da je njegovo nemanje struje po nekoliko sati uporedivo sa streljanjem 6000 građana Kragujevca tokom drugog svetskog rata ali voli da se protivi. Poštujemo.

Quote from: mac on 22-03-2011, 16:23:23
Postoji jedan SF roman, "Cyber Strip", nekog Poljaka mislim, gde Američka vrhuška (grupa koja se zove Sistem) zaključi da Zemlji nije potrebno ovoliko ljudi, te počne da radi na tome pobije ostatak čovečanstva.

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 22-03-2011, 16:26:57
Ali sve to kada se poredi sa onim što je zapad radio ranije, je manje agresivno, manje eksploatatorski, manje ubistveno.

Quote from: varvarin on 22-03-2011, 16:29:30

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 22-03-2011, 16:18:12
Dobro, svi osim Skalopa koji kontrira samo iz inata. Skalop ne misli ozbiljno da je njegovo nemanje struje po nekoliko sati uporedivo sa streljanjem 6000 građana Kragujevca tokom drugog svetskog rata ali voli da se protivi. Poštujemo.

Meho, razvodnjavaš.
Nemanje struje nije poredljivo sa streljanjem u Kragujevcu.
Ali govorimo i o mentalitetu koji će (pošto je ritualno popljuvao one koji su strerljali po Kragujevcu):
- ući u klinč sa protivničkom silom u Evropi
- skočiti na tu silu u Koreji
- bez te sile jebavati Vijetnam
- potpuno bez te sile i ikakvih drugih sila, sam se zabavljati bombardujući (KAO JEDINA PREŽIVELA SUPERSILA) - Irak, Srbiju, Avganistan, Libiju...

Jel nekog zaštitili? Reći će - pa, ostali smo na jedno Srebrenici.
A broj mrtvih na svim stranama, pre toga??
Koliko su civila zaštitili u Iraku, posle vešanja Sadama Huseina, ili u Avganistanu - evo baš danas se izvinjavaju zbog neke slike gde marinci poziraju uz tela mrtvih civila?
"...manje eksploatatorski, manje ubistveno ???"   Ha!!

Ne. To je argument: JA IMAM NAJVEĆU KARU, JA ĆU DA VAS JEBEM!
Svet u vreme hladnog rata bio je kud i kamo poštenije mesto!!!

Quote from: scallop on 22-03-2011, 16:29:46
Aman, čoveče božji, mislim sasvim ozbiljno. Ozbiljno su me shvatili i svi u Americi koji su me saslušali. Moraćeš i ti ozbiljno da me shvatiš: leto 1999. bilo je garnirano smradom jer se ne može pustiti voda za sobom i to je najgore civilizacijsko poniženje. Kad bacaju bombe po Iraku, Avganistanu ili sad Libiji, teško da im mogu tako nauditi, jer muslimani sobom nose flašicu vode. Kad ti padne na um njihovo civilizacijsko ponašanje kao dobra mera, otidi do raskrsnice Nemanjine i Tolbuhinove (ili kako se već sad zove) i potraži mesto gde je Bulatović izgubio noge, jer je poveo ljude da gase vatru. Možda ti memorija stigne tamo gde treba.

Quote from: scallop on 22-03-2011, 16:34:49

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 22-03-2011, 16:26:57
Ali sve to kada se poredi sa onim što je zapad radio ranije, je manje agresivno, manje eksploatatorski, manje ubistveno.

Ma, nije. Danas su agresivniji nego ikad. Veruju da mogu da preurede svet po svojoj meri. I da im se niko neće suprotstaviti do krajnjeg obračuna. Svet u kome nestaje reč rad u korist reči biznis vodi u nestanak ili krajnju pobunu onih koji rade.

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 22-03-2011, 16:45:44
Kad bih ja odvajao vreme za razmišljanje, kada bih stigao da sve ovo napišem?

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 22-03-2011, 16:26:57Ja ništa nisam razumeo šta ti ovde govoriš. Ali dobro, verovatno sam dekoncentrisan.

Ponoviću da bih podvukao teze o kojima kao raspravljamo da nije sporno da zapad pravi mnogo loših stvari, od masovnog ubijanja civila u ratovima, preko izvoza prljavih tehnologija i održavanja loših uslova rada u zemljama trećeg sveta do kreacije kulture rijaliti programa. Ali sve to kada se poredi sa onim što je zapad radio ranije, je manje agresivno, manje eksploatatorski, manje ubistveno.

Quote from: D. on 22-03-2011, 16:38:27
Nije sporno da Amerika ubija zarad svojih ciljeva, ali ovde se govori o upoređivanju sa ranijim stanjem ljudskih prava, brojem mrtvih, načinima ubijanja i sl.

Quote from: Anomander Rejk on 22-03-2011, 16:57:41
Prosto mi je prirodno da se čovek buni protiv svetskog šerifa, koji bi da svima upravlja i govori šta da rade. Trenutno su to Ameri. Kad budu Rusi, Kinezi ili Indijci, buniću se  i protiv njih.

Quote from: varvarin on 22-03-2011, 16:59:01
Mrze ih, jer ne dozvoljavaju drugima da idu svojim putem.
Kako hoće, kao slobodni ljudi.
Pa makar to nekad dovelo do ivice većeg sranja, što valjda treba sprečiti...
Ali, zato ih mrze, rekao bih.

Quote from: D. on 22-03-2011, 16:38:27Licemerje je staro koliko i ljudski rod. A ti zahtevaš njegov prestanak? Mislim, i ja bih volela (iz altruističkih razloga), ali mrka kapa.

QuoteMa ne mora niko da bude svestan svog prava, bitno da ga ima, da je zaštićeno

QuoteKo treba da sudi sudiji? Iz koje pozicije, je li moguće zloupotrebiti tu poziciju? Kako sprečiti tu zloupotrebu? Hajde da razradimo sistem, ne samo da kritikujemo.

QuoteMislim, najlakše je napisati da je čovek mrtav, i ne morati pojasniti tezu da je zapad kočnica progresa što se tiče univerzalnosti ljudskih prava...

Quote from: Anomander Rejk on 22-03-2011, 16:57:41
Meho, sad mi zvučiš izvini na izrazu kao Čanak- ono kao mi stalno biramo manje zlo

Quote from: Anomander Rejk on 22-03-2011, 16:57:41Kuda to vuku, i šta je za tebe napredak ? Napredak nije samo tehnologija, mašine i organizacija rada.

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 22-03-2011, 16:42:53
duži život, bolja zdravstvena zaštita, manji procenat mortaliteta među decom, više opcija za obrazovanje, zaposlenje, putovanje, lična udobnost itd.

Quote from: Anomander Rejk on 22-03-2011, 16:57:41Ja ne vidim nikakvog suštinskog pomaka u međunarodnim i civilizacijskim odnosima, od Rimske imperije do SAD.

Quote from: Anomander Rejk on 22-03-2011, 16:57:41Kuda to mi uopšte kao civilizacija napredujemo ? Ja vidim svet iscrpljen ratovima, siromaštvom i ekonomskom nesigurnošću, svet opsednut strahom od terorizma i nuklearnog kolapsa, na najboljem smo putu da uništimo biljni i životinjski svet i zeznemo klimu. Smer u kome Amerika vodi civilizaciju je smer nesigurne budućnosti, budućnosti straha.

Quote from: Anomander Rejk on 22-03-2011, 16:57:41Prosto mi je prirodno da se čovek buni protiv svetskog šerifa, koji bi da svima upravlja i govori šta da rade. Trenutno su to Ameri. Kad budu Rusi, Kinezi ili Indijci, buniću se  i protiv njih.

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 22-03-2011, 16:55:33
Pošteno.

Ali to sve kako objašnjavaš je kao da postoji neki nadistorijski autoritet koji će sad da im sudi. Pa, ne postoji i neće. Možda će za dvadeset ili pedeset godina Evropa i Amerika da obeštete Afriku onako kako su u Americi obeštetili indijansku populaciju (možda neadekvatno, možda adekvatno, ali ipak jeste nešto učinjeno na tom planu). Možda i neće. Ali ja sve vreme pričam o tome da postoji trend. Prvo stičeš imovinu i moć, a posle malo i pomažeš onima koji imaju manje jednog i drugog od tebe. Možda to nije Pravda sa velikim "p", ali jeste nekakav boljitak.

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 22-03-2011, 17:14:37
Pa, da, ali Arapi kad porastu i potraže Amere to je pre svega da vide da li mogu nekako da izmuvaju da dobiju američko državljanstvo.

Sem ako nisu teroristi samoubice, što baš nije koncept iza koga želimo da stanemo.

Quote from: varvarin on 22-03-2011, 17:12:21
..."Kako bi izgledao svet ako Amerika sutra nestane?"

Da pošaljemo priče za Radionicu na tu temu? Može! :lol:

Quote from: Bata Trokrilni on 22-03-2011, 17:22:50
Mada teško da će to tebi biti eye-opening

Quote from: John Reynolds on 22-03-2011, 17:23:11
Limonov je napisao pripovetku o tome šta bi se dogodilo ako bi Rusija nestala.

Quote from: Bata Trokrilni on 22-03-2011, 17:15:41

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 22-03-2011, 16:55:33
Pošteno.

Ali to sve kako objašnjavaš je kao da postoji neki nadistorijski autoritet koji će sad da im sudi. Pa, ne postoji i neće. Možda će za dvadeset ili pedeset godina Evropa i Amerika da obeštete Afriku onako kako su u Americi obeštetili indijansku populaciju (možda neadekvatno, možda adekvatno, ali ipak jeste nešto učinjeno na tom planu). Možda i neće. Ali ja sve vreme pričam o tome da postoji trend. Prvo stičeš imovinu i moć, a posle malo i pomažeš onima koji imaju manje jednog i drugog od tebe. Možda to nije Pravda sa velikim "p", ali jeste nekakav boljitak.

Možda, ali za početak bi mogli da prekinu da ih dodatno oštećuju. To su njihove kulture, one funkcionišu na taj način i zašto im se nameću zapadni standardi? Čak i perjanice prosvjetiteljstva poput Monteskjea ili Hjuma nisu insistirali na univerzalnosti, već je monteskje čak tvrdio da je nemoguće da u Rusiji i Britaniji postoji isti politički sistem, a kamoli u LIbiji ili Francuskoj. SVako podneblje ima geografske i kulturne razloge za određeno političko ustrojstvo, samo bi nam još falilo kad su već doveli Afriku na ivicu gladi i istrijeili Indijance, da sad ''pročešljaju'' Libiju pa joj onda ližu rane.

hajde da batale češalj.

Quote from: varvarin on 22-03-2011, 17:18:50

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 22-03-2011, 17:14:37
Pa, da, ali Arapi kad porastu i potraže Amere to je pre svega da vide da li mogu nekako da izmuvaju da dobiju američko državljanstvo.

Sem ako nisu teroristi samoubice, što baš nije koncept iza koga želimo da stanemo.

Nisi čuo za oca pakistanske A- bombe, što je sad u kućnom pritvoru?
A taman je počeo da prodaje svoje znanje Libijcima, Severnokorejcima, i još nekima, možda iz Al-Kaide...
Nema veze.
Neki drugi fizičar dovršiće taj posao.

Quote from: D. on 22-03-2011, 17:24:50Što da ne? Ali ti to nastupaš sa pozicije da je meni eye opening potreban, a tebi nije? :)/quote]

Meni nije, ja ne vjerujem ni jednima ni drugima, vjerujem samo u činjenice da se međunarodni sistem narušava od strane Amerikanaca a ne Gadafija. Šta on čini UNUTAR njegove zemlje je njegova stvar.

Quote from: Bata Trokrilni on 22-03-2011, 17:43:13
Meni nije, ja ne vjerujem ni jednima ni drugima, vjerujem samo u činjenice da se međunarodni sistem narušava od strane Amerikanaca a ne Gadafija. Šta on čini UNUTAR njegove zemlje je njegova stvar.

Quote from: Steva Lazin Ljuštikin on 22-03-2011, 17:43:43
Anomander je samo ovlaš 'provukao' ključni problem sadašnje 'civilizacije' kroz jedan pređašnji post i bojim se da se to ne zagubi. Parafraziram, 'Amerika nas vodi u neizvesnost'. Svaka jedna 'vlast', lokalna, regionalna, kontinentalna ili svetska, nije postala vlast voljom podanika već svojom bezobzirnošću. Nema tu emocija, melje se sve pred sobom. Ali, US i njeni trabanti sve češće pokazuju opasnu dozu bezidejne budućnosti za sve. Kad mnogo voliš supu gledaš da se i pilići legu, ne kolješ kvočke.

Quote from: Steva Lazin Ljuštikin on 22-03-2011, 17:43:43
Anomander je samo ovlaš 'provukao' ključni problem sadašnje 'civilizacije' kroz jedan pređašnji post i bojim se da se to ne zagubi. Parafraziram, 'Amerika nas vodi u neizvesnost'. Svaka jedna 'vlast', lokalna, regionalna, kontinentalna ili svetska, nije postala vlast voljom podanika već svojom bezobzirnošću. Nema tu emocija, melje se sve pred sobom. Ali, US i njeni trabanti sve češće pokazuju opasnu dozu bezidejne budućnosti za sve. Kad mnogo voliš supu gledaš da se i pilići legu, ne kolješ kvočke.

Quote from: mac on 22-03-2011, 18:20:12
Drugim rečima, koja god da je velesila na mestu Amerike, isto bi se ponašala.

Quote from: D. on 22-03-2011, 17:46:40A u činjenice se ne veruje. Njih poznaješ ili ne.

Quote from: Stipan on 22-03-2011, 19:12:29
4. Što bi neko drugi na njihovom mestu bio mnogo gori nego oni.

QuoteВлада Србије забринута због ситуације у Либији и угрожавања живота цивила. Шеф српске дипломатије Вук Јеремић позвао на прекид ратних разарања и прекомерну употребу силе, која проузрокује старадање цивила.

Министар спољних послова Вук Јеремић изјавио је да је Србија "забринута и несрећна" због тренутне ситуације у Либији и додао да је сада најважније да престану борбена дејства и страдања цивила.


Јеремић је, на конференцији за новинаре после сусрета са португалским колегом Луишом Амадом, рекао да Србија као одговорна чланица међународне заједнице подржава све одлуке Савета безбедности Уједињених нација, али да, са друге стране, подржава територијалну целовитост и суверенитет Либије.

Поводом ваздушних напада на Либију, шеф српске дипломатије је рекао да је Србија имала горко искуство са ваздушним нападима и да зато позива на прекид ратних разарања и прекомерну употребу силе која проузрокује старадање цивила.

Поводом ситуације у Либији, где већ четврти дан траје интервенција међународне коалиције против снага лојалних Моамеру Гадафију, први пут се огласила и Влада Србије, изражавајући забринутост због угрожавања живота цивила у сукобима.

У саопштењу Владе се наводи да Србија позива на поштовање Резолуције Савета безбедности УН број 1973 и међународног хуманитарног права, како би се хитно зауставило страдање цивила и даља разарања.

"Србија у потпуности подржава територијални интегритет и целовитост Либије", саопштила је Канцеларија за сарадњу са медијима Владе Србије.

О Либији се прво говорило у српском парламенту, на иницијативу Либерално-демократске партије, која је затражила да се Влада Србије изјасни и саопшти став у вези са дешавањима у Либији и страдањем цивила.

Лидер ЛДП-а Чедомир Јовановић је рекао да је Влада Србије нема пред "бруталним обрачуном Гадафија према својим грађанима" и позвао је на хитну реакцију и осуду страдања цивила.

"Оно што се тамо данас дешава је само страдање других цивила, цивила у Триполију и то није политика са којом ми треба да се солидаришемо, то је политика коју треба да осудимо и да предложимо мере којима ће тај проблем бити превазиђен и решен, а очигледно је да ћутимо због тога што смо прво били Гадафијеви кловнови, а сада бисмо да будемо Обамини кловнови", оценио је Јовановић.

Тим поводом, шефица посланичке групе "За европску Србију" Нада Колунџија рекла је да се Србија залаже за поштовање људских права и да бомбардовање неке земље није најсрећнији начин да се та права и остваре.

"Важно је да је јасан став Србије да се залаже за поштовање људских права са једне стране, али са друге стране, Србија има разлога да верује да бомбардовање неке земље није најсрећнији начин да се остварују људска права", рекла је Колунџија новинарима у републичком парламенту.

Одговарајући на питање какав став Србија треба да заузме поводом дешавања у Либији, Колунџија је рекла да није упутно да Србија "превише троши своје ограничене спољно-политичке ресурсе".

QuoteThe US military would not give the exact location the F-15E Eagle came down, but said both crewmen suffered only minor injuries after ejecting.

The aircraft was based in England and was operating out of Aviano in Italy. It was on a mission against a Gaddafi missile site, the Pentagon said.

One Libyan who came across the crashed jet told Britain's Daily Telegraph that one pilot held his hands in the air and said "OK, OK", but was quickly thanked by locals for his participation in the air strikes.

Younis Amruni told the Telegraph: "I hugged him and said 'don't be scared, we are your friends'."

A reporter for Britain's Channel 4 said six villagers were shot and injured as a US helicopter attempted to rescue the crew. She said one man expected his young son to lose a leg due to a bullet wound but that the locals did not appear resentful over the shootings.

QuoteFighting between Col Gaddafi's forces and the rebels continued on Tuesday, despite the declaration of a ceasefire by the government:

    * A doctor in Misrata - the last rebel-held city in western Libya - told the BBC that residents had suffered another night of shelling by government forces, with 22 deaths and 100 injuries
    * In Zintan, near the Tunisian border, one resident told Reuters at least 10 people had been killed in a Gaddafi bombardment
    * In Yafran, 130km south-west of Tripoli, at least nine people were killed in clashes, residents said
    * Gaddafi forces continue to hold rebels on the eastern frontline near Ajdabiya

Many of the reports of overnight strikes and fighting cannot be independently confirmed.

QuoteBy HADEEL AL-SHALCHI and RYAN LUCAS, Associated Press Hadeel Al-shalchi And Ryan Lucas, Associated Press – Tue Mar 22, 11:25 pm ET
TRIPOLI, Libya – Moammar Gadhafi's snipers and tanks are terrorizing civilians in the coastal city of Misrata, a resident said, and the U.S. military warned Tuesday it was "considering all options" in response to dire conditions there that have left people cowering in darkened homes and scrounging for food and rainwater.

The U.S. is days away from turning over control of the air assault on Libya to other countries, President Barack Obama said. Just how that will be accomplished remains in dispute: Obama spoke Tuesday with British Prime Minister David Cameron and French President Nicolas Sarkozy in hopes of quickly resolving the squabble over the transition.

"When this transition takes place, it is not going to be our planes that are maintaining the no-fly zone. It is not going to be our ships that are necessarily enforcing the arms embargo. That's precisely what the other nations are going to do," the president said at a news conference in El Salvador as he neared the end of a Latin American trip overshadowed by events in Libya.

Gadhafi, meanwhile, made his first public appearance in a week, promising enthusiastic supporters at his residential compound in Tripoli, "In the short term, we'll beat them, in the long term, we'll beat them."

Libyan state TV broadcast what it said was live coverage of Gadhafi's less-than-five-minute statement. Standing on a balcony, he denounced the coalition bombing attacks on his forces.

"O great Libyan people, you have to live now, this time of glory, this is a time of glory that we are living," he said.

State TV said Gadhafi was speaking from his Bab Al-Aziziya residential compound, the same one hit by a cruise missile Sunday night. Reporters were not allowed to enter the compound as he spoke.

Heavy anti-aircraft fire and loud explosions sounded in Tripoli after nightfall, possibly a new attack in the international air campaign that so far has focused on military targets. Two explosions were heard in the city before daybreak Wednesday.

One of Gadhafi's sons may have been killed, U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told ABC News on Tuesday. She cited unconfirmed reports and did not say which son she meant. She said the "evidence is not sufficient" to confirm this.

Clinton also told ABC that people close to Gadhafi are making contact with people abroad to explore options for the future, but she did not say that one of the options might be exile. She said they were asking, "What do we do? How do we get out of this? What happens next?"

Despite the allies' efforts to keep Gadhafi from overwhelming rebel forces trying to end his four-decade rule, conditions have deteriorated sharply the last major city the rebels hold in western Libya.

Residents of Misrata, 125 miles (200 kilometers) southeast of Tripoli, say shelling and sniper attacks are unrelenting. A doctor said tanks opened fire on a peaceful protest Monday.

"The number of dead are too many for our hospital to handle," said the doctor, speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisals if the city falls to Gadhafi's troops. As for food, he said, "We share what we find and if we don't find anything, which happens, we don't know what to do."

Neither the rebels nor Gadhafi's forces are strong enough to hold Misrata or Ajdabiya, a key city in the east that is also a daily battleground. But the airstrikes and missiles that are the weapons of choice for international forces may be of limited use.

"When there's fighting in urban areas and combatants are mixing and mingling with civilians, the options are vastly reduced," said Fred Abrahams, a special adviser at Human Rights Watch. "I can imagine the pressures and desires to protect civilians in Misrata and Ajdabiya are bumping up against the concerns about causing harms to the civilians you seek to protect."

It is all but impossible to verify accounts within the two cities, which have limited communications and are now blocked to rights monitors such as the International Committee for the Red Cross.

Most of eastern Libya is in rebel hands but the force — with more enthusiasm than discipline — has struggled to take advantage of the gains from the international air campaign, which appears to have hobbled Gadhafi's air defenses and artillery and rescued the rebels from impending defeat.

The coalition includes the U.S., Canada, several European countries and Qatar. Qatar was expected to start flying air patrols over Libya by this weekend, becoming the first member of the Arab League to participate directly in the military mission.

The Obama administration is eager to relinquish leadership of the hurriedly assembled coalition. A NATO-led operation would require the unanimous support of member nations but two of them, France and Turkey, do not want the alliance to take over.

A compromise was emerging that would see NATO take a key role, but the operation would be guided by a political committee of foreign ministers from the West and the Arab world.

Obama defended U.S. involvement against criticism from several members of Congress, including some fellow Democrats.

"It is in America's national interests to participate ... because no one has a bigger stake in making sure that there are basic rules of the road that are observed, that there is some semblance of order and justice, particularly in a volatile region that's going through great changes," Obama said.

Visiting post-revolution Tunisia, U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon called on all nations to support the coalition effort in Libya. "Thousands of lives are still at stake. We could well see a further humanitarian emergency," Ban said.

Germany, which abstained in the U.N. Security Council vote, took a concrete step Tuesday to underline its reservations, pulling its ships and crews from NATO operations in the Mediterranean to avoid taking part in the operation against Libya,

Ajdabiya, a city of 140,000 that is the gateway to the east, has been fought over for a week. Outside the city, a ragtag band of hundreds of fighters milled about on Tuesday, clutching mortars, grenades and assault rifles. Some wore khaki fatigues. One man sported a bright white studded belt.

Some men clambered up power lines in the rolling sand dunes of the desert, squinting as they tried to see Gadhafi's forces inside the city. The group periodically came under artillery attacks, some men scattering and others holding their ground.

"Gadhafi is killing civilians inside Ajdabiya," said Khaled Hamid, who said he had been in Gadhafi's forces but defected to the rebels.

Ahmed Buseifi, 32, said he was in Libya's special forces for nine years before joining the opposition. He said other rebellious special forces had entered Ajdabiya and Brega, another contested city, hoping to disrupt government supply lines. The airstrikes, he said, leveled the playing field.

"If not for the West, we would not have been able to push forward," he said.

A U.S. fighter jet on a strike mission against a government missile site crashed Monday night in eastern Libya, about 25 miles (40 kilometers) outside the rebel capital of Benghazi. Both crewmen ejected safely as the aircraft spun from the sky during the third night of the U.S. and European air campaign.

The crash, which the U.S. attributed to mechanical failure, was the first major loss for the U.S. and European military air campaign.

By Tuesday afternoon, the plane's body was mostly burned to ash, with only the wings and tail fins intact. U.S. officials said both crew members were safe in American hands.

One of the pilots parachuted into a rocky field and hid in a sheep pen on Hamid Moussa el-Amruni's family farm.

"We didn't think it was an American plane. We thought it was a Gadhafi plane. We started calling out to the pilot, but we only speak Arabic. We looked for him and found the parachute. A villager came who spoke English and he called out, 'We are here, we are with the rebels,' and then the man came out," el-Amruni said.

A second plane strafed the field where the pilot went down. el-Amruni himself was shot, suffered shrapnel wounds in his leg and back. He propped himself up with an old broomstick and said he bore no grudge, believing it was an accident.

The pilot left in a car with the Benghazi national council, taking with him the water and juice the family provided. They kept his helmet and parachute.

Since the uprising began on Feb. 15, the opposition has been made up of disparate groups even as it took control of the entire east of the country. Only a few of the army units that defected have actually joined in the fighting, as officers try to coordinate a force with often antiquated, limited equipment.

In Misrata, the doctor said rebel fighters were vastly outgunned.

"The fighters are using primitive tools like swords, sticks and anything they get from the Gadhafi mercenaries," he said.

Mokhtar Ali, a Libyan dissident in exile who is still in touch which his family in Misrata, said rooftop snipers target anyone on the street, and residents trapped inside have no idea who has been killed.

"People live in total darkness in terms of communications and electricity," Ali said. "Residents live on canned food and rainwater tanks."

U.S. Navy Adm. Samuel J. Locklear said intelligence confirmed that Gadhafi's forces were attacking civilians in Misrata, Libya's third-largest city, and said the international coalition was "considering all options" there. He did not elaborate, but Misrata is one of the cities that Obama has demanded that Gadhafi forces evacuate.

Airstrikes overnight into Tuesday hit a military port in Tripoli, destroying equipment warehouses and trucks loaded with rocket launchers. Col. Abdel-Baset Ali, operations officer in the port, said the strikes caused millions of dollars in losses, but no human casualties.

But while the airstrikes can stop Gadhafi's troops from attacking rebel cities — in line with the U.N. mandate to protect civilians — the United States has so far been reluctant to go beyond that. The Libyan leader was a target of American air attacks in 1986.

U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates and others said the U.S. military's role will lessen in coming days as other countries take on more missions and the need declines for large-scale offensive action.

Two dozen more Tomahawk cruise missiles were launched from U.S. and British submarines, a defense official said earlier in the day. Locklear, the on-scene commander, didn't give details but confirmed that brought to 161 the number of Tomahawk strikes aimed at disabling Libyan command and control facilities, air defenses and other targets since the operation started Saturday.

Locklear said the additional strikes had expanded the area covered by the no-fly zone.

Asked if international forces were stepping up strikes on Gadhafi ground troops, Locklear said that as the "capability of the coalition" grows, it will be able to do more missions aimed at ground troops who are not complying with the U.N. resolution to protect those seeking Gadhafi's ouster.

___

Lucas reported from Zwitina, Libya. Associated Press writers Maggie Michael in Cairo; Robert Burns and Pauline Jelinek in Washington and David Rising in Berlin contributed to this report.

QuoteWhen a U.S. Air Force pilot ejected from his crashing F-15 Eagle fighter jet and landed in rebel-held eastern Libya overnight Tuesday, he soon found that he was in friendly hands.

"He was a very nice guy," Libyan businessman Ibrahim Ismail told Newsweek of the initially quite anxious American pilot. "He came to free the Libyan people." Rebel officials dispatched a doctor to attend to the pilot and presented him with a bouquet of flowers, according to Newsweek.

But the U.S. government, now engaged in a fourth day of air strikes against Libyan regime military targets, does not know very much about the rebels who now see it as a friendly ally in their fight to overthrow Muammar Gadhafi.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton held a 45-minute, closed-door meeting with Mahmoud Jibril, a leader of the newly formed Libyan opposition Interim National Council in a luxury Paris hotel earlier this month. But in a clear signal of America's wariness about all the unknowns, Clinton gave no public statement after their meeting and did not appear in photographs with the rebel leader. (By contrast, a week earlier French President Nicholas Sarkozy bestowed formal diplomatic recognition on the Council and was photographed shaking hands with its emissaries Jibril and Ali Essawi on the steps of the Elysee Palace.)



Middle East policy watchers note a glaring disconnect between the buoyant expectations of some rebel supporters that the international military coalition will provide direct air support for their armed struggle, and the insistence of U.S. military commanders that their mandate allows for no such thing.

The coalition mission doesn't include protecting forces engaged in combat against Libyan leader Muammar Gadhafi's forces, Gen. Carter Ham, the commander of U.S. Africa Command, told reporters Monday. His mission, Ham said, is narrowly confined to preventing Gadhafi forces from attacking civilians, getting Gadhafi's forces to pull back from rebel-held towns, and allowing civilians humanitarian access to food, water, and electricity/gas supplies, Ham said.

So who are the Libyan rebels with whom we now seem (for better or for worse) to be joined with in a shared fight against Gadhafi?

One view has it that the Libyan rebels are basically peaceful protesters who found their demonstrations against Gadhafi met with bullets and had no choice but to resort to violence.

"The protesters are nice, sincere people who want a better future for Libya," Human Rights Watch Emergencies Director Peter Bouckaert told South Africa's Business Day. "But their strength is also their weakness: they aren't hardened fighters, so no one knows what the end game will be."

"This is not really a civil war between two equal powers--it started as a peaceful protest movement and was met with bullets," Bouckaert continued. "Now you have a situation where you have a professional and heavily equipped army fighting a disorganized and inexperienced bunch of rebels who stand little chance against them."

Still, the rebels are largely unknown to the American government, despite initial tentative meetings such as Clinton's and some meetings held by U.S. Ambassador to Libya Gene Cretz with opposition representatives. (Cretz is now working out of the State Department, as the United States has withdrawn its diplomatic presence.) Last week, President Barack Obama appointed an American diplomat, Chris Stevens, to be the U.S. liaison to the Libyan opposition.

"We don't have the comfort level with the rebels," said the National Security Network's Joel Rubin, a former State Department official. "We certainly know some things about them, had meetings. It's not as if there's complete blindness. But I don't think at this stage the comfort level is there for that kind of close coordination."

But the Libyan rebels seem to have found western consultants who have offered advice on reassuring buzzwords the West would like to hear. On Tuesday, the Interim National Council issued just such a soothing statement from their rebel stronghold of Benghazi.

"The Interim National Council is committed to the ultimate goal of the revolution which is to build a democratic civil state, based on the rule of law, respect for human rights including ... equal rights and duties for all citizens, ... equality between men and women, " the Council said in their statement.

The Council also "reaffirms that Libya's foreign policy will be based on mutual respect and ... respect [for] international law and international humanitarian law," the group said.

(Photo, top: Libyan rebels on the road between Benghazi and Ajdabiyah: Suhaib Salem/Reuters. Photo, middle: France's President Nicolas Sarkozy shakes hands with Libyan Interim National Council emissaries Mahmoud Jibril (R) and Ali Essawi after a meeting at the Elysee Palace in Paris March 10, 2011: Gonzalo Fuentes/Reuters)

QuoteBy AHMED AL-HAJ and LEE KEATH, Associated Press Ahmed Al-haj And Lee Keath, Associated Press – Tue Mar 22, 9:24 pm ET
SANAA, Yemen – Yemen's U.S.-backed president, his support crumbling among political allies and the army, warned that the country could slide into a "bloody" civil war Tuesday as the opposition rejected his offer to step down by the end of the year. Tens of thousands protested in the capital demanding his immediate ouster, emboldened by top military commanders who joined their cause.

Ali Abdullah Saleh's apparent determination to cling to power raised fears that Yemen could be pushed into even greater instability. In a potentially explosive split, rival factions of the military have deployed tanks in the capital Sanaa — with units commanded by Saleh's son protecting the president's palace, and units loyal to a top dissident commander protecting the protesters.

The defection on Monday of that commander, Maj. Gen. Ali Mohsen al-Ahmar, a powerful regime insider who commands the army's 1st Armored Division, has been seen by many as a major turning point toward a potentially rapid end for Saleh's nearly 32-year rule.

The question is whether the Yemeni chapter of the uprisings sweeping the Middle East will read more like Egypt — where the resignation of President Hosni Mubarak set the country on a relatively stable, if still uncertain, move toward democracy — or like Libya, which has seen brutal fighting between armed camps.

Already, clashes broke out late Monday between Saleh's Republican Guard and dissident army units in the far eastern corner of the country. On Tuesday, Republican Guard tanks surrounded a key air base in the western Red Sea coastal city of Hodeida after its commander — Col. Ahmed al-Sanhani, a member of Saleh's own clan — announced he was joining the opposition.

The turmoil raised alarm in Washington, which has heavily backed Saleh to wage a campaign against a major Yemen-based al-Qaida wing that plotted attacks in the United States.

U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates, on a trip to Russia, said Tuesday that "instability and diversion of attention" from dealing with al-Qaida is a "primary concern about the situation." He refused to weigh in on whether Saleh should step down.

After a month of street protests — led mainly by students and pro-democracy advocates — against his nearly 32-year rule, Saleh became dramatically more isolated after security forces opened fatally shot more than 40 demonstrators on Friday.

The killings set off an avalanche of defections by top figures in his ruling party, influential tribal leaders and, most damagingly, al-Ahmar and a string of other top generals.

In a meeting Tuesday with his still-loyalist military commanders, Saleh railed against the dissidents, calling them "weak" and saying they "dropped away like autumn leaves."

"Those who want to climb to power through a coup should know that things won't stabilize. The nation won't be stable, it will turn into a civil war, to a bloody war, so they should think carefully," he said.

At the same time, he issued a softer statement, saying he "sympathizes with the youth" and calling on protesters to enter a dialogue. He said he believed their movement could "renew the democratic energy" in the country."

Monday night, Saleh pledged in a meeting with senior officials, military commanders and tribal leaders that he would step down by the end of the year, according to a presidential spokesman, Ahmed al-Sufi. Saleh had earlier rejected such a proposal, making a more limited concession of promising not to run for re-election when his term ends in 2013.

But the opposition said the new offer was too little, too late.

"The president's statements are just another political maneuver," said chief opposition spokesman Mohammed al-Sabri. "What was acceptable yesterday is not acceptable for us today."

"There is only one option, that the president announces his resignation and hands over power. Only then can we meet with the president to agree on transferring power," he said.

In Washington, State Department spokesman Mark Toner said Saleh's resignation at year-end would be positive "if this is something that many people respond to and it meets their aspirations."

"What we're looking for is dialogue that leads to a peaceful solution," Toner told reporters.

Protesters massed by the tens of thousands Tuesday afternoon in the downtown Sanaa plaza they have dubbed "Taghyeer," or "Change" square. Crowds ululated, chanted and painted each other's faces in the red, white and black colors of the national flag. Conservative tribesmen bought their wives to the protest, and the women bought their children, all basking in a carnival atmosphere.

The wave of defections and resignations since Friday have included army commanders, ambassadors, members of Saleh's ruling party, lawmakers, provincial governors and some managers of the state-run media. With most pillars of his rule knocked away, Saleh's strongest card remains his family and the loyalist military units they command.

Throughout his rule, Saleh has stayed in power through manipulation and patronage. He has used money to keep the loyalty of powerful tribes, seeded the military with close family members and courted Islamic fundamentalists, using militants as pro-regime fighters against opponents.

Even while his hold on power in Sanaa seemed entrenched, the deeply impoverished nation has been crumbling around him for several years. A powerful secessionist movement has torn apart the south, which was once an independent nation. In the north, Shiite rebels rose up against his military. In many parts of the mountainous nation, which has little infrastructure, discontented tribes all but shook off his authority.

The defections, however, throw the protest movement into the thick of Yemen's deeply complicated politics. The new factions joining in are hardly a unified force.

Al-Ahmar is mistrusted by some. He had a complex relationship with Saleh, seen as both a key ally and a potential rival. He also has close ties to Yemen's Salafis, an ultraconservative Islamic movement that in some ways mirrors al-Qaida's ideology. Yemen's most influential Salafi, Sheik Abdul-Majid al-Zindani, already announced his support for the protesters.

Al-Ahmar is also unpopular in the south, where secessionists have largely backed the protests against Saleh. Al-Ahmar is a veteran of the 1994 civil war that saw Saleh's army suppress an attempt by southern Yemen to secede.

Some protesters expressed fears their movement, which has focused on establishing democratic rule, could be hijacked.

"There are worries, especially after some extremist Salafi and military elements joined," said Bushra al-Maqtari, a leading activist among the protesters. "But we are watchful ... We don't refuse anyone who supports the revolutionaries, even those once linked to the regime. But we are all in agreement that they don't have the right to speak in the name of the revolution."

Also joining the protesters have been top figures from Yemen's most powerful tribe, the Hashid, to which Saleh himself and al-Ahmar belong. Among them are the tribe's leader Sheik Sadeq al-Ahmar and his brothers — Hamid, an influential businessman who has long been a critic of the president, and Himyar, formerly the deputy parliament speaker.

Sheik Sadeq spoke to protesters in Change Square on Tuesday, trying to reassure them. "Don't be afraid or listen to rumors that say that the tribes or military will hijack the revolution," he said. "We are with you. We will support your demands. We will not be an alternative. Don't listen to rumors."

But the Hashid support also raised worries the tribe is seeking to maintain its status by backing Ali Mohsen al-Ahmar as a successor to Saleh.

A top American concern is that al-Qaida or other Islamic militants could fill any power vacuum. Several hundred al-Qaida militants are believed to be operating in the country, taking refuge in remote areas.

Late Tuesday, Yemen's Interior Ministry said in a statement that 12 al-Qaida fighters had been killed in clashes with the army in the town of Lawder in the southern province of Abyan.

The country has a strong Islamic radical movement, not directly belonging to al-Qaida, including thousands of veterans of "jihad" in other countries.

Ironically, those radicals could also be a card in Saleh's hand. In the south in particular, his regime has used militants to put down seccessionists.

For the past two days, armed Islamic militants have been on a rampage in the southern city of Aden, breaking into nightclubs, throwing out patrons and setting fire to buildings. They spraypainted graffiti on buildings around the city, reading "The people want the rule of God."

Quote
President Barack Obama seems determined to relinquish the hot potato of U.S. leadership over the Libya air war as quickly as possible, although disputes within NATO have prevented the Alliance stepping up to take charge of a mission whose strategic objectives remain unclear.  Having effectively prevented Colonel Gaddafi from sending armored columns to attack rebel-held cities, the question that increasingly faces nations waging a campaigne whose declared aim is simply to protect Libya's civilian population is: What are the coalition's responsibilities when it is rebel forces who are on the attack? Clearly, the rebels themselves are expecting the sort of close air support that the NATO countries provide to their own troops in Afghanistan and other conflicts. But enabling a rebel offensive against towns held by Gaddafi's contravenes the spirit of the U.N. Security Council resolution that enabled the operation, whose stated goal is to stop the fighting and enable a negotiated political settlement.

The question of how far the coalition goes in supporting a rebel offensive cuts to some of the basic principles involved in the Libya intervention.

One of the key reasons cited by Western governments for intervening in Libya was the damaging "demonstration effect" that would result if Colonel Gaddafi survived in power by ruthlessly crushing the rebellion. Autocrats everywhere would contrast his fate with that of President Hosni Mubarak, who was ousted after refraining from ordering a bloodbath, and conclude that fighting their way out of a political crisis was the best option. So, best to make an example of  Gaddafi -- rather than on allies like Yemen's President Ali Saleh or the Saudis orchestrating a violent crackdown in Bahrain, whose regimes are far more important to U.S. strategic interests. And, of course, once the President of the United States has declared unambiguously that Gaddafi must go, his survival in power is viewed by many in Washington as an unacceptable erosion of U.S. credibility.

Charges of  double standards aside, there's a deeper problem with the "demonstration effect"  logic: It fails to reckon with the "demonstration effect" of intervening to realize the goals of an armed rebellion about which precious little is known.

Kosovo is often cited as an example of a successful humanitarian intervention that saved many lives by ending a campaign of "ethnic cleansing" by Serb forces. But what's worth remembering is that the Serb campaign in Kosovo was a brutal retaliation for the growing insurgency of the Kosovo Liberation Army, a hardline separatist group that systematically killed Serbian policemen, administrators and civilians in what was legally a province of Serbia despite its ethnic-Albanian majority. The KLA were not necessarily nice guys. They had been on the State Dept. list of terrorist organizations until 1998 because of their attacks on civilians. The organization was believed to rely on criminal activity for its funding -- indeed, a European Union investigation last December accused the movement's leader,  current Kosovo president Hashem Thaci, of heading a crime syndicate. (Thaci and his government furiously reject that charge.)  After the war, a number of the group's commanders were also convicted of war crimes by the Hague Tribunal. Kosovo remains partitioned between a small Serbian enclave in the north and the ethnic Albanian remainder, and despite the best efforts of the NATO countries, its declaration of independence has been recognized by less than half of U.N. member states.

So, while ostensibly waged to simply protect a civilian population under threat, the Kosovo war was also a great success story for a small hardcore group that  had provoked the Serbs into launching a campaign of retribution so ugly and vicious that  it drew in NATO to accomplish what the KLA itself had been unable to accomplish -- driving the Serbs out of their rebellious province of Kosovo.

Libya's rebellion, of course, has nothing in common with the KLA; there was no small group of conspirators mounting increasingly damaging attacks over a two-year period; instead a relatively spontaneous protest movement for democratic rights was greeted with a brutal crackdown by Gaddafi, prompting mass defections from the army in Benghazi and other eastern cities in what quickly became a popular armed rebellion.

Still, the danger of a reverse demonstration effect is obvious: Intervening to stop Gaddafi from cracking down on the rebellion may or may not deter other despots from following suit; but providing the air cover that allows the rebellion to triumph, as the rebels expect the West to do,  could also encourage a belief among rebels elsewhere that if they take up arms against a tyrant, NATO will fly to their rescue.

Already, the situation on the ground is highlighting the dilemma in the Western intervention: Air strikes have stopped Gaddafi's march on Benghazi, but fighting continues at close quarters there and in other cities. And a rebel drive to recapture Ajdabiya on Monday on the back of the bombing campaign appeared to flounder under fire from regime tanks guarding the northern entrances to the city. Many of the rebel fighters on the ground made clear they were expecting Western warplanes to open the way to Ajdabiya and beyond. That's not a role with which U.S. commanders are comfortable.

to be viewing the NATO planes as the close air support of their own infantry campaign -- a role that the operation's commanders appear reluctant to embrace.

The Washington Post reports:

From a point about five miles from the northern entrance to Ajdabiya, rebels jumped into dozens of vehicles and made a massive push toward the city Monday when they heard jets in the air and the sounds of bombardment. But after about half a mile, the rebels came under fire from loyalist tank and mortar shelling and promptly turned back.

Afterward, rebel commanders said they plan to wait for more allied airstrikes against Gaddafi's forces before pushing forward again.

But in Stuttgart, Germany, the commander of coalition forces involved in the Libya campaign, U.S. Army Gen. Carter F. Ham, said the allied mission was to "protect civilians from attack by the regime ground forces" and not to provide close air support for the rebels or "support opposition forces if they engage in offensive operations."

But it appears unlikely, right now, that the rebels can prevail in offensive operations without considerable foreign air support. And Western powers appear reluctant to intervene to enable a decisive military victory by  a rebel force about whose nature and intentions they know precious little. If the regime were, in fact, to suddenly lose control of the capital, the fact that so many people have been armed and with so little discipline or organizational structure threatens to create the sort of chaos that would require the insertion of peacekeeping forces -- a potentially perilous mission that none of the Western powers is willing to contemplate.

President Obama insists that the burden of responsibility for and leadership of the mission must be shared between the U.S. and its allies. First, however, they may need to agree on a coherent strategy beyond simply stopping Gaddafi from butchering civilians.

QuoteThe Gaddafi regime continues to deny any massacre took place in the Libyan town of Zawiyah.


Instead the government spokesman in Tripoli has asked Britain to produce "evidence" of any civilians dying at the hands of Gaddafi forces there.

Well, Dr Moussa Ibrahim, Sky News has that evidence. A Sky News team of three was trapped in Zawiyah as Gaddafi unleashed the might of his toughest brigade on the town - for days and days.

We saw civilians battling for their lives and we saw far too many of them dying. We saw the regime's soldiers firing on ambulances (including one we were travelling in).

We saw the colonel's men shelling residential apartments and firing so close to the main hospital that the windows rattled and the nurses were barricading the windows. We saw wounded children and women who had been shot in the head.


We were inside the town as Gaddafi's military attempted to strangle it to death, encircling it with tanks and other military vehicles and cutting off the internet, the mobile phone network and eventually power and water supplies.

The British Ministry of Defence's strategic communications officer, Major-General John Lorimer, has used an aerial photograph of the town's mosque, in Martyrs Square where most of the battle took place, to demonstrate how the landscape of this town changed.

One photograph showed the town with its mosque intact, the other with the mosque destroyed, its dome collapsed.

"This shows just what Gaddafi is capable of," said Major-General Lorimer. Not even a sacred holy place was considered off-limits to Col Gaddafi's men.

We cowered in a storeroom in the mosque with half a dozen other civilians as we witnessed the bombing and constant fighting outside.

My colleagues, Sky's deputy foreign editor Tim Miller and cameraman Martin Smith, and I were there from Friday, March 4 until Sunday, March 6.

We moved from the main hospital to the mosque to the square a number of times whenever the firing and fighting died down. With the help of people who put their lives at risk for us, we somehow managed to smuggle the pictures out.

We were told over and over again how important it was for us to deliver the pictures and show what had happened.


"They will try to stop you broadcasting these pictures," they told us. "They will lie and deny it happened."

From the government-controlled hotel which houses most of the Western journalists, they did just that. And they are still saying that.

Dr Ibrahim told my colleague Lisa Holland in Tripoli that the military would never fire upon its own people because they are "Libyan children" and the soldiers could not even if they wanted to.

Well, they did.

Tim, Martin and I were there when one wounded soldier from the Kharmis brigade was brought in with both his ankles blown away. He had ID which showed his brigade unit and his nationality. He was Libyan and he was a tank commander.

He was also conscious and able to answer my questions. I asked how many military vehicles he had come into the town with. He said 25 to 30.

He went onto say - as his wounds were being tended to - that he never expected to be treated so humanely.

"We were told you were all al Qaeda terrorists," he said. "But you are good people."

Quote from: John Reynolds on 24-03-2011, 16:19:05
Jbg, ovakve akcije će me naterati da se i ja registrujem na taj usrani FB.

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 24-03-2011, 17:52:40
Srbi stvarno ne razmišljaju ni sekunda pre nego što delaju. Mislim, sve u redu, ali svrstavati se uz Gadafija????

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 24-03-2011, 17:52:40
Srbi stvarno ne razmišljaju ni sekunda pre nego što delaju. Mislim, sve u redu, ali svrstavati se uz Gadafija????

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 24-03-2011, 17:52:40
Srbi stvarno ne razmišljaju ni sekunda pre nego što delaju. Mislim, sve u redu, ali svrstavati se uz Gadafija????

Quote from: Bata Trokrilni on 24-03-2011, 18:08:09
pa dobro, nisu oni predstavnici države, država je prilično mirna i tu nema frke, a svaki građanin ima pravo da izrazi sopstveni stav, jer u protivnom se oni opravdano bune.

Quote from: John Reynolds on 24-03-2011, 18:38:17

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 24-03-2011, 17:52:40
Srbi stvarno ne razmišljaju ni sekunda pre nego što delaju. Mislim, sve u redu, ali svrstavati se uz Gadafija????

Protiv Imperije Zla, a uz čoveka koji, kakav god bio, nama nikad ništa nije skrivio - štaviše, dobijali smo od njega podršku još u vreme SFRJ i svaki put kasnije; čak je napravio i mini skandal s Pacolijem? Zašto da ne.

Quote from: scallop on 24-03-2011, 18:51:05

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 24-03-2011, 17:52:40
Srbi stvarno ne razmišljaju ni sekunda pre nego što delaju. Mislim, sve u redu, ali svrstavati se uz Gadafija????

I u SAD više političara smatra da je sve isilovano.

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 24-03-2011, 19:06:44
Ako sad krenemo o silovanjima, bićemo ovde do jutra...

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 24-03-2011, 19:06:44Pa, ja ovde i ne kritikujem državu nego narod, zapravo njegove pojedince koji stvarno ne umeju da nađu svoje mesto u koordinatnom sistemu konfuzije.

Quote from: varvarin on 25-03-2011, 11:37:25
Dakle, otišao na FB, po prvi put:  Pa tamo je zabava!!

(https://www.znaksagite.com/diskusije/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Falbum.php%3Fprofile%3D1%26amp%3Bid%3D198247770197560%23%21%2Fphoto.php%3Ffbid%3D198249453530725%26amp%3Bset%3Da.198249450197392.42971.198247770197560%26amp%3Btheater&hash=d2bbfe77400f53fc3d9df9962b9a53203d1cdebf)

QuoteSecurity forces have reportedly opened fire on demonstrators in and around Syria's southern city of Daraa, killing as many as 20 people. Skip related content

Witnesses said they died in the village of Sanamein as they tried to march to Daraa, but the reports have not been verified.

Amnesty International has said 55 people have been killed in Daraa in the past week.

Unrest has simmered in the area around the city for more than a week. Now it seems to be spreading and the UK's Foreign Office has said it is "deeply concerned" by the violence.

The UN's secretary-general Ban Ki-moon called for "maximum restraint" by Syria in a phone call with President Bashar al-Assad.

There are reports of protests in the towns of Homs, Tel, Lattakia and the capital, Damascus.

Dramatic footage apparently taken near Daraa today shows crowds scattering to the sound of gunfire before they return to the streets to carry away several people clearly severely injured or dead.

Unconfirmed reports claim several people have been killed.

Other video being posted on YouTube and Facebook shows substantial protests in a number of towns. It is impossible to verify when, how or where the videos were taken.

Syrian authorities are not issuing visas to foreign journalists to allow them to enter the country and report on what is happening.

The escalation follows efforts President al Assad to defuse the unrest yesterday with promises to consider lifting the decades-old state of emergency.

Assad recently said he believed Syria was immune from unrest in a press interview, but since those comments parts of his country have begun seething with protests.

Added to the long list of demands for political reform there are now furious calls for justice for those killed by his security forces, regarded as martyrs by protestors.

Syria has barely tolerated any dissent for almost five decades of Assad rule, first under Hafez al Assad and then under his son.

Despite promises of reform the regime has been one of the most authoritarian in the Arab world.

It may now be following the path of Egypt, Tunisia and Libya and on the verge of a general uprising. But it is unclear how widespread the protests are.

The unrest is remarkable because it is so unprecedented but so far it has been restricted to a small number of towns. However, that seems to be changing.

The coming days will be crucial as it becomes clearer whether or not the events in the south will cause others across the country to rise up against their government.

The UK's Foreign Office Minister for the Middle East and North Africa, Alistair Burt, has called on Syria's leadership to allow peaceful protests.

He said: "I have been watching closely the situation in Syria, and am deeply concerned by the use of force against demonstrators.

"I condemn the violence that has resulted in a large number of deaths in Daraa."

QuoteЈедногласном одлуком Савета безбедности отворена истрага против либијског лидера, тројице његових синова и четворице најближих сарадника

Главни тужилац Међународног кривичног суда у Хагу аргентински адвокат Луис Морено Окампо најавио је да разматра проширивање истраге против либијског лидера Муамера Гадафија због ,,могућих ратних злочина" током оружаних сукоба са побуњеницима у Либији.

Окампо је 3. марта, по налогу Савета безбедности УН, већ отворио истрагу против Гадафија, тројице његових синова (Саифа, Касима и Мутасима) и четворице најближих сарадника због ,,злочина над цивилима" током првих 12 дана народне побуне у Либији, од 15. до 26. фебруара.

Први пут од оснивања Међународног кривичног суда у Хагу 2002, Савет безбедности је 26. фебруара донео једногласну одлуку да једног актуелног шефа државе проследи истрази МКС-а.

Последњи пут када је Савет безбедности покренуо истрагу против актуелног шефа државе било је 2005. против суданског лидера Омара ал Башира због ратних злодела у Дарфуру. Тада су четири земље биле уздржане: САД, Кина, Алжир и Бразил.

Овог пута, предлог Либана да Савет безбедности пред МКС-ом покрене истрагу о ,,широко распрострањеним и систематским нападима на цивилно становништво, који могу имати размере ратних злочина у Либији, први је случај да и САД и Кина подрже ,,упутницу хашком суду".

САД, Кина, Судан и Либија нису чланице МКС-а. У складу са прописима постојећег међународног правног поретка, само Савет безбедности УН може МКС-у да предложи истрагу о збивањима у земљи која није чланица хашког суда. Једногласно усвојена Резолуција 1970 о истрази против Гадафија и његових најближих сарадникаутолико има историјски значај, оцењују на Ист Риверу.

Луис Морено Окампо, охрабрен ,,веома добрим истражним информацијама", најавио је у четвртак у Каиру сатницу даљег тока шесте истраге коју МКС отвара на тлу Африке.

Окампо ће 4. маја обавестити Савет безбедности УН о напретку истраге о евентуалним злочинима над цивилима, а тужбени предмет биће уобличен до краја истог месеца.

Окампо се потом окреће истрази оружаних сукоба да би утврдио да ли су почетком марта у Либији почињени ратни злочини. Специјална комисија УН у следећих неколико седмица одлази у Либију да на лицу места проучи евентуално почињене злочине, саопштено је у Женеви. Извештај специјалне комисије очекује се у јуну, када ће Окампо донети и одлуку о проширењу оптужбе.

У истрази евентуалног злочина против цивила Окампо и његов тим ослониће се на новинске и друге извештаје са терена. Главни тужилац очекује и сарадњу Савета за људска права УН, из чијег је чланства Либија недавно избачена.

Тања Вујић
објављено: 26.03.2011

QuoteNadam se da će i ta Saudi Arabija doći na red. Francuzi su i nju ovih dana kritikovali.

Quote from: Melkor on 27-03-2011, 20:23:43
Ako mislis na Saudi Arabiju, bile su demonstracije kod njih, u istom naletu kao i Bahreinske. Malo su pucali po ljudima, malo pozatvarali politicke protivnike i resili stvar.

Quote from: Lom on 27-03-2011, 17:22:29Ne volim nelojalnost bilo kome i nadam se da će ga zapad zbog ovakvih autogolova pustiti niz vodu i isforsirati nove pulene.

Quote from: Anomander Rejk on 27-03-2011, 22:59:53
Ameri se rukovode onim diktator je dobar ako je naš, tako da Saudijci mogu da gaze i tenkovima, mogu slati policiju i u Bahrein, i naravno da im niko neće lupati čvrge.
Mislim da su sledeći na redu Sirija i Iran. NATO je izdao neko saopštenje, koje je stvarno vrhunac cinizma- kao oni su u Libiji da štite civile i nepristrasni prema stranama u sukobu. Izbombarduju jednoj strani oklopne snage na tlu, pobunjenici naravno iskoriste kao pešadija i zauzmu grad. Nepristrasnost na delu.

Quote from: Lom on 27-03-2011, 21:05:55
Je l neko u Londonu gađao demonstrante snajperom?

QuoteThe US President has hailed the coalition's progress in stopping Colonel Gaddafi's "deadly advance" but warned that its mission is not to topple him from power. Skip related content

In a 27-minute speech, Barack Obama set out why the US had become militarily engaged in another Muslim country and explained the narrow focus of the mission: to protect Libyan civilians, not to force regime change.

Mr Obama said once the UN Security Council agreed Resolution 1973, the swiftly assembled coalition had the legal and moral authority to act when the Libyan leader threatened the rebel-held city of Benghazi.

He said: "At this point, the United States and the world faced a choice.

"Gaddafi declared that he would show 'no mercy' to his own people. He compared them to rats, and threatened to go door to door to inflict punishment.

"We knew that if we waited one more day, Benghazi... could suffer a massacre that would have reverberated across the region and stained the conscience of the world."

He explained that his decision to authorise military engagement was not just based on humanitarian concerns but on America's national security interests.

"A massacre would have driven thousands of additional refugees across Libya's borders, putting enormous strains on the peaceful, yet fragile, transitions in Egypt and Tunisia," he argued.

"The democratic impulses that are dawning across the region would be eclipsed by the darkest form of dictatorship, as repressive leaders concluded that violence is the best strategy to cling to power.

"So while I will never minimize the costs involved in military action, I am convinced that a failure to act in Libya would have carried a far greater price for America."

He also appeared to criticise his predecessor in the White House, George W Bush, when explaining why the mission was not to target Col Gaddafi.

"To be blunt, we went down that road in Iraq... regime change there took eight years, thousands of American and Iraqi lives, and nearly a trillion dollars.

"That is not something we can afford to repeat in Libya."

He also set out, for the first time, what is likely to be interpreted as the Obama foreign policy doctrine.

"American leadership is not simply a matter of going it alone and bearing all the burden ourselves," he said.

"There will be times when our safety is not directly threatened, but our interests and values are.

"Sometimes, the course of history poses challenges that threaten our common humanity and common security: responding to natural disasters, for example; or preventing genocide and keeping the peace; ensuring regional security, and maintaining the flow of commerce.

"These may not be America's problems alone, but they are important to us, and they are problems worth solving.

"And in these circumstances, we know that the United States, as the world's most powerful nation, will often be called upon to help."

As more than 40 nations prepare to discuss the situation at a London conference, there was little mention of how long America will continue to commit its assets, nor what would be deemed 'mission accomplished'.

The Republican speaker of the House, John Boehner, said Obama provided 'few new answers'.

"Nine days into this military intervention and Americans still have no answer to the fundamental question: what does success in Libya look like?"

:: The mother of a woman who was allegedly raped by Libyan officials and tried to explain her story to foreign journalists has said minders tried to buy her silence.

:: A north Africa expert tells Sky News that Colonel Gaddafi is running out of money as rebels have taken control of key oil installations.

QuoteIn relatively brief remarks Monday night, President Barack Obama sought to strike a delicate balance, justifying his decision to use force in Libya while assuring a doubtful nation that the U.S. military actions would be limited and low-risk. Obama built his case for intervention by arguing that swift intervention in Libya was necessary to avert a humanitarian catastrophe on the scale of the 1990s Bosnia genocide. But while Obama repeatedly attacked Libyan leader Muammar Gadhafi for creating that impending catastrophe, he insisted that international military action would stop well short of toppling the Libyan dictator, and declared that U.S. allies would soon take over leadership of the operation.

"I said that America's role would be limited; that we would not put ground troops into Libya; that we would focus our unique capabilities on the front end of the operation, and that we would transfer responsibility to our allies and partners. Tonight, we are fulfilling that pledge," Obama said, saying the 28-member NATO alliance would take over command of all military functions in Libya starting on Wednesday.

With Gadhafi's forces closing in on the rebel stronghold of Benghazi ten days ago, "the United States and the world faced a choice," Obama said at the National Defense University. "Gadhafi declared that he would show 'no mercy' to his own people. He compared them to rats, and threatened to go door to door to inflict punishment."



"We knew that if we waited one more day, Benghazi -- a city nearly the size of Charlotte -- could suffer a massacre that would have reverberated across the region and stained the conscience of the world," Obama said. "It was not in our national interest to let that happen. I refused to let that happen. And so nine days ago, after consulting the bipartisan leadership of Congress, I authorized military action to stop the killing."

While making the case for action to skeptics, Obama also defended the limited U.S. military mission in Libya from critics on the right who argue the mission will not succeed until Gadhafi is overthrown.

"There is no question that Libya — and the world — will be better off with Gadhafi out of power," Obama said. "But broadening our military mission to include regime change would be a mistake."

"If we tried to overthrow Gadhafi by force, our coalition would splinter. We would likely have to put U.S. troops on the ground, or risk killing many civilians from the air," Obama said. "To be blunt, we went down that road in Iraq."




Libya's former envoy to Washington Ali Aujali - who broke with the Gadhafi regime - praised Obama's remarks and his decision to intervene in Libya.

"On behalf of the Libyan National Transitional Council, I would like to express deep gratitude to President Obama and the American people for their commitment to protect and assist the Libyan people," Aujali said in a statement Monday. "While the situation in Libya still remains very fluid, the intervention of the United States and the international community has saved tens of thousands of lives."

Washington foreign policy observers said Obama had walked a fine line in his first major -- and some critics charge belated -- address to the American public on the Libya intervention.

"Obama effectively made the case for the urgency of U.S. and international action in the face of an impending humanitarian catastrophe," said George Washington University Middle East expert Marc Lynch, who has consulted with the White House on Libya. "He also was right to include the crucial point that not acting would have been not only a stain on America's image but would have given other dictators in the region a green light."

Lynch said that he is not sure, however, how the president "will deliver on the promise to not escalate or use ground troops if this doesn't work ... and how the U.S. will act if things get ugly in other Arab countries."

"What I think is vital is that [Obama] paint for Americans a picture about how this kind of American leadership, in which we lead by letting others lead, works in practice," said former Clinton administration speechwriter Heather Hurlburt, now with the progressive National Security Network. And that he "make the point that from the standpoint of limited, humanitarian objectives endorsed by the international community, it is working rather quickly and well.

"It's understandable that, given recent history, Americans experience some uncertainty with this model," Hurlburt continued. "But it is the kind of progressive leadership we were in fact promised."

(President Barack Obama delivers his address on Libya at the National Defense University in Washington, Monday, March 28, 2011: AP Photo/Manuel Balce Ceneta.)

QuoteAn international conference on Libya takes place in London today, as the Nato-led coalition continues to target Colonel Gaddafi's military and rebel forces move closer to the capital, Tripoli.

Representatives of more than 40 countries, including all those who have contributed military assets, will join figures from the United Nations, the African Union, the Arab League and Nato at the one-day meeting.

It has been designed to take stock of progress on the ground and discuss how best to proceed and comes hours after US President Barack Obama justified the reasons behind military action.

But the gathering takes place against a backdrop of increased criticism of the strikes on Gaddafi's troops and an emerging fear in the Arab world that efforts at securing a no-fly zone and protecting the public are a precursor to regime change.

In a communique released ahead of the conference, Prime Minister David Cameron and French President Nicolas Sarkozy said: "We emphasise that we do not envisage any military occupation of Libya, which would be contrary to the terms of the Resolution.

"We reaffirm our strong commitment to the sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity and national unity of Libya.

"Military action is not an objective as such. A lasting solution can only be a political one that belongs to the Libyan people.

"That is why the political process that will begin... in London is so important.

"The London conference will bring the international community together to support Libya's transition from violent dictatorship and to help create the conditions where the people of Libya can choose their own future."

Yet on Monday, Russia warned there were "contradictions" in the approach taken by the allied nations now operating under Nato command.

Nato has shown no sign of altering its strategy in response to Mr Lavrov's remarks.

The veneer of legitimacy for intervention in Libya provided by support from Arab nations will be tested in London.

Although the coalition is now under Nato command, a political "steering committee" will provide direction - involving countries such as Qatar who are not Nato members.

But the British government is hopeful the meeting will demonstrate the international community's desire to allow the Libyan people the freedom to determine their own future.

Britain's Foreign Secretary William Hague told Sky News: "The conference has three broad objectives.

"One is to continue to strengthen and deepen the international coalition.

"Secondly, we want to look at how to get more humanitarian aid to where it is needed.

"Thirdly, as the Prime Minister and President Sarkozy have said, what we want is to get the thinking going about an eventual transition in Libya."

QuoteA shocking scene occurred in Tripoli on Saturday when a gun was pointed at Sky News after a woman tried to tell foreign journalists about being raped and tortured by Libyan officials. Skip related content

A visibly very distressed woman burst into the breakfast room of the hotel where we are staying and attempted to speak out about an ordeal at the hands of Gaddafi supporters.

As correspondents here in Tripoli under the supervision of the Libyan government, we are not allowed to move around freely.

However, it has become apparent to those in the city that there are a clutch of journalists in two hotels.

We were having breakfast in our hotel when the woman broke in and said she'd been picked up at a checkpoint in the city.

She claimed she had been held for two days, and that she had been raped and tortured.

The woman showed marks on her body which she said she had received as a result of beatings by the people who were holding her, Gaddafi supporters.

She showed marks on her legs and on her wrists, which she suggested came from handcuffs.

In a state of great distress, she said she had suffered this beating because she was from Benghazi, the city where the uprising began in the east of the country.

As journalists tried to speak to her, things got out of control and the police minders waded in, trying to physically shut her up and stop her talking.

Hers is not the voice they want heard in this country. In the commotion a gun was pointed towards the Sky News team in an attempt to stop them filming.

A team from another news organisation had their camera smashed in front of them.

After about 15 minutes the woman was dragged outside the hotel and put into a waiting car.

As I tried to get in the way, a minder put his hand over the woman's mouth to stop her talking.

She was driven away at speed and we have no idea where she was taken. Her story could not be immediately verified, but the scene provided glimpse of the atmosphere in the city.

Government officials initially said they knew nothing about this woman, although another official later added the woman's mental health would be assessed.

QuoteTwo fighters, shoulder to shoulder, show the diversity of the Libyan rebel forces

By Leila Fadel
Monday, March 14, 2011

IN BENGHAZI, LIBYA They are two fighters on the front lines of what they say is a battle for freedom and survival. But the paths that Haitham al-Ghaybee and Abu Sultan took to this moment were very different.

One is a scruffy rabble-rouser who has a reputation for hard drinking; the other a clean-shaven, green-eyed Islamist who has fought before in the name of his religion, carrying out attacks against U.S. forces in Iraq.

Neither fits neatly into the profile of drug-addled al-Qaeda devotees that Col. Moammar Gaddafi has used to denigrate the rebel force seeking to oust him from power after 41 years.

Instead, the men reflect the wide array of perspectives and backgrounds present among those who in recent weeks have captured control of half of Libya, and are desperately seeking to win the rest.

The rebel movement's strength has been its diversity - an all-inclusive mix of secularists and Islamists, women and men, young and old, longtime Gaddafi opponents and recent government defectors. They are bound by their love for Libya, and by their hatred for Gaddafi.

But with the rebels losing ground in the face of a withering assault by pro-Gaddafi forces, the movement's fate could hinge on the question of whether men like Abu Sultan and Ghaybee can stay united.

Abu Sultan is a deeply religious 39-year-old who believes he must fight against those who threaten his religion, and his land. He told his story from the rebel capital of Benghazi, in eastern Libya, and spoke on the condition that only his nom de guerre be published. His account could not be independently corroborated.

During a break from the fighting, Abu Sultan explained that he is no stranger to bloody battles. He traveled to Iraq in 2003, incensed by the U.S.-led invasion.His brother Hassan blew himself up near a U.S. Marine vehicle, killing the Americans. Abu Sultan called home to tell his mother, and Hassan was celebrated as a martyr in the eastern Libyan city of Ajdabiya. Another brother, Abu Sultan said, has become a top commander of al-Qaeda, and is based in Afghanistan.
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For six months, Abu Sultan waged war against the American Marines in the Iraqi city of Ramadi, but he refused to ally himself with the Sunni insurgent group al-Qaeda in Iraq when it began a campaign of killing Iraqi civilians.

Because of his stance, Abu Sultan said he was turned into the authorities by the extremist group and shipped back to Libya, where he sat in jail for three months.

"The Americans invaded a Muslim country and I am against this," he said. "But I'm also against Bin Laden. I don't kill innocent people."

Abu Sultan said he disapproves of his brother's choice to fight with al-Qaeda.

When Abu Sultan's fellow Libyans revolted against Gaddafi late last month, he finally had the chance he had been waiting for: to fight what he sees as injustice in his own country. He said he wants the international community to set up a no-fly zone to protect the rebels from air strikes, but he stressed that this is a Libyan fight.

"I want to protect myself, my land and my religion. Since I was born there has never been justice, no constitution and no elections," he said. "I don't want an Islamic Caliphate like al-Qaeda. I want a civilian government with justice, freedom and a constitution."

During an interview, he rubbed his clean-shaven chin and seemed relaxed in a green sweater and khaki slacks. His beard from the previous day's battle in the port city of Brega - where he and thousands of others repelled an assault by pro-Gaddafi forces - was gone.

"The media was focusing on our beards, so we all shaved," he said. He proudly displayed pictures of a younger brother who had volunteered with the Red Crescent in Tunisia during that nation's revolution in January. In the pictures, the young man sat with a group of male and female activists.

Abu Sultan's days are now filled with battles as rebel fighters try to defend their turf in eastern Libya.

"It's so hard to fight Libyans, but this is a mafia regime," he said. "When I see Libyans I want to throw my weapon away, but I can't." ....

QuoteDespite fears that Islamic extremists may be playing a hidden role in the rebellion against Moammar Kadafi, the U.S. intelligence community has found no organized presence of Al Qaeda or its allies among the Libyan opposition, American officials say.

A U.S. intelligence-gathering effort that began shortly after anti-Kadafi forces started seizing towns in eastern Libya last month has not uncovered a significant presence of Islamic militants among the insurgents.

"We're keeping an eye out for extremist activity in Libya, but we haven't seen much, if any, to date," said a U.S. counter-terrorism official. A Defense official added that the U.S. had not seen a direct link between the opposition and extremists.

A congressional staffer who receives intelligence briefings did not dispute those assessments. But the aide added: "There ought to be a concern and recognition that there may be such a linkage. There should also be an appreciation that the opposition is not a uniform, monolithic movement."

Eastern Libya has a history as a breeding ground for Islamic militants. U.S. officials say more than 100 Libyans entered Iraq to fight in the anti-U.S. insurgency between August 2006 and August 2007. The vast majority came from Benghazi, the rebels' de facto capital, and nearby Derna.

The Obama administration is concerned about long-term instability that could allow extremism to take root, and is sensitive to any suggestion that Al Qaeda, which has long opposed Kadafi, could somehow benefit from the U.S.-led international military effort in Libya.

On Feb. 24, Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, a North African affiliate of the group, vowed to "do whatever we can" to help the Libyan rebels, according to a statement translated by SITE Intelligence Group, a Washington-based company that tracks militant websites.

Kadafi has repeatedly claimed that the insurgents are dominated by Al Qaeda, a charge strongly denied by opposition leaders in eastern Libya, an area that has long opposed Kadafi.

Islamic fundamentalists clearly are among the rebels, but no organized segment is pursuing a Taliban-style government or an Al Qaeda agenda, Libya experts say.

"Who is behind the revolution? It's not the Islamists or the jihadists," said Noman Benotman, a former Libyan militant now with the Quilliam Foundation, a London-based group staffed by former Islamic radicals. "It's ordinary people, moderates, liberals, lawyers and writers."

"There's no evidence that any of the leaders are extremists, and to the extent that we know anything, they seem to be secular professionals," said Robert Pape, a terrorism expert at the University of Chicago who has traveled to Libya.

Charles Faddis, who led a CIA team in northern Iraq before the 2003 invasion, and who retired in 2008, questioned whether the U.S. intelligence community really understands who the rebels are.

"Everyone wants to believe the opposition consists of individuals dedicated to a democratic revolution," Faddis said. "Is that true?"

"Is this a political movement or a tribal one? What we need is solid intelligence on the nature of the opposition, who the key figures are, who is going to emerge on top. I suspect we do not have that, because our collection inside Libya, a denied area, has probably been very weak for a very long time."

A Libyan journalist in Derna said in an interview last week that Islamic militants were seeking influence in that city. "In the beginning I was very optimistic about the possibility of reform and change, but there has been a violent takeover and now we are seeing foreign fighters, Islamists, from the Gulf and other Arab countries," said Milad Hassani.

The large number of Libyans who went to fight in Iraq is less an indication of a large extremist community than a social network that could be activated in a short period of time, said Brian Fishman, a terrorism expert who analyzed captured documents about the Libyan fighters for the U.S. Military Academy at West Point.

QuoteReporting from Benghazi, Libya—
The rebels of eastern Libya have found much to condemn about the police state tactics of Libyan leader Moammar Kadafi: deep paranoia, mass detentions, secret prisons and tightly scripted media tours.

But some of those same tactics appear to be creeping into the efforts of the opposition here as it seeks to stamp out lingering loyalty to Kadafi. Rebel forces are detaining anyone suspected of serving or assisting the Kadafi regime, locking them up in the same prisons once used to detain and torture Kadafi's opponents.

For a month, gangs of young gunmen have roamed the city, rousting Libyan blacks and immigrants from sub-Saharan Africa from their homes and holding them for interrogation as suspected mercenaries or government spies.

Over the last several days, the opposition has begun rounding up men accused of fighting as mercenaries for Kadafi's militias as government forces pushed toward Benghazi. It has launched nightly manhunts for about 8,000 people named as government operatives in secret police files seized after internal security operatives fled in the face of the rebellion that ended Kadafi's control of eastern Libya last month.

"We know who they are," said Abdelhafed Ghoga, the chief opposition spokesman. He called them "people with bloodstained hands" and "enemies of the revolution."

Any suspected Kadafi loyalist or spy who does not surrender, Ghoga warned, will face revolutionary "justice."

Rebels have also detained scores of Libyans they say were captured during battles with government forces in the last week or so.

On Wednesday, 55 terrified detainees were paraded in front of a busload of international journalists.

It was the first time the opposition's month-old transitional national council had organized such a controlled bus tour, and it featured some of the same restrictions placed on journalists taken on tours in Tripoli by the Kadafi regime: no interviews and no close-up photographs of prisoners.
sea

Opposition officials who herded journalists on trips to two former internal security complexes said the restrictions were based on international conventions that prohibit public displays of prisoners of war.

The prisoners and detainees were hauled out of dank cells that stank of urine and rot — the same cells that once housed some of the dissidents now aligned with the rebel movement, known as the Feb. 17 Revolution.

But when a rowdy mass of photographers and reporters rushed the prisoners and began snapping photos and shouting questions, the carefully staged event collapsed in chaos. Soon opposition officials were hauling out prisoners for interviews and photos, all the while shouting down the detainees when they proclaimed their innocence.

One young man from Ghana bolted from the prisoners queue. He shouted in English at an American reporter: "I'm not a soldier! I work for a construction company in Benghazi! They took me from my house ... "

A guard shoved the prisoner back toward the cells.

"Go back inside!" he ordered.

The guard turned to the reporter and said: "He lies. He's a mercenary."

The Ghanaian was one of 25 detainees from Chad, Niger, Sudan, Mali and Ghana described by opposition officials as mercenaries, though several of them insisted they were laborers. The officials declined to say what would become of them.

The opposition has acknowledged detaining an unspecified number of sub-Saharan Africans on suspicion of serving as Kadafi mercenaries. Human Rights Watch has described a concerted campaign in which thousands of men have been driven from their homes in eastern Libya and beaten or arrested.

Peter Bouckaert, emergencies director for the rights group in Libya, said he had been promised access to the detainees and prisoners put on display Wednesday.

Another 30 men who were paraded about were described as Libyan soldiers captured in the last week or so. Some were said to have served in the armored column that was demolished by allied airstrikes on the outskirts of Benghazi over the weekend.

"These are the people who came to kill us," said Col. Ahmed Omar Bani, a military spokesman for the council, gazing on the detainees with contempt.

Asked whether some of the accused might indeed be foreign construction workers, Bani replied: "We are not in paradise here. Do you think they're going to admit they are mercenaries? We know they are, of course."

Bani said nightly raids to detain men named in the internal security files had intensified in recent days and would continue "until we get them all."

One of the accused shown to journalists was Alfusainey Kambi, 53, a disheveled Gambian wearing a bloodstained sport shirt and military fatigue trousers. He said he had been dragged from his home and beaten by three armed men who he said also raped his wife. A dirty bandage covered a wound on his forehead.

Khaled Ben Ali, a volunteer with the opposition council, berated Kambi and accused him of lying. Ali said Kambi hit his head on a wall while trying to escape.

He commanded the prisoner to comment on his treatment in the detention center.

Kambi paused and considered his answer. Finally, he glanced warily up at Ali and spoke.

"Nobody beat me here," he said in a faint, weary tone. "I have no problems here."

QuoteWorld powers and international institutions at today's Libya Conference in London agreed that Muammar Gaddafi and his regime have "completely lost legitimacy and will be held accountable for their actions". Skip related content


A statement released by Foreign Secretary William Hague, who chaired the conference, said participants reaffirmed their commitment to full and swift implementation of United Nations Security Council resolutions on Libya.

He said military action would continue until the conditions of the resolution were met, and called for an immediate ceasefire by Gaddafi's forces.

A Libya Contact Group is now being created to co-ordinate international support for the people of Libya. The new group's first meeting will be chaired by Arab state Qatar "as soon as possible", Mr Hague said.

Later, Mr Hague's American counterpart Hillary Clinton said no decision had been made on whether to arm the Libyan opposition.

There will be further sanctions for individuals associated with the dictator's regime, and Qatar will assist in the sale of Libyan oil by opposition leaders where consistent with international law.

The one-day meeting included officials from United Nations, the Arab League and Nato.

Opening the conference, Prime Minister David Cameron said the Libyans needed the UN resolution to be implemented, for humanitarian aid to be delivered and for Libyans to receive help in planning for their future after the conflict is over.

The meeting came as Nato prepared to take over command and control of military operations in Libya.

Coalition aircraft have carried out hundreds of bombing raids targeting the military hardware of Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's forces in recent days.

Today loud explosions have been heard in the capital Tripoli, as well as anti-aircraft fire. The US said new Tomahawk strikes had targeted missile sites around Tripoli.

The Ministry of Defence said RAF Tornados had fired missiles at a Gaddafi armoured vehicle and two pieces of artillery in Misratah. They are believed to have been destroyed.

The Libyan leader has written to the attendees of the summit demanding that they stop the "barbaric offensive" against his country, likening the airstrikes to campaigns launched by Adolf Hitler during the Second World War.

However, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told the Libya conference that the military action would continue until Gaddafi stops attacking civilians and allows humanitarian aid to reach his people.

The US ambassador to the UN said on Tuesday that Washington had not ruled out arming the opposition.

As the meeting took place, the Benghazi-based rebels said 124 civilians had been killed during nine days of fighting between opposition forces and Gaddafi loyalists in the western city of Misratah.

Libya's third city has been under constant bombardment from artillery and tanks for days, while Gaddafi's snipers have reportedly been deployed throughout the centre.

Gaddafi's troops appear to have halted the rebels outside the Libyan leader's home town of Sirte, after coalition airstrikes aided a rapid advance over the weekend.

The Libyan opposition said that the meeting should decide to prosecute Gaddafi for crimes against humanity, rather than offering him exile in an attempt to end his rule.

"He must be charged for crimes against the Libyan people," rebel spokesman Shamsiddin Abdulmolah said. "This is non-negotiable."

Representatives of the opposition today set out their vision for a democratic country after Gaddafi has been removed from power.

A delegation from the transitional Interim National Council (INC) was in London for the conference.

The INC's UK co-ordinator Guma El-Gamaty said: "The Libyan people have been suffering for 42 years under sheer tyranny and repression and dictatorship.

"The real aspirations of the Libyan people are to be free, to live under a constitutional democratic system, where there is rule of law, all essential freedoms are guaranteed and people can fulfil their potential and realise their aspirations.

"That is the hope. That is the vision."

Mr Hague, who met the Libyan rebel foreign representative before the conference, said earlier "people who have committed crimes" should be sent to the International Criminal Court.

"But of course where he (Gaddafi) goes, if he goes, is up to him and the people of Libya to determine, and we will not necessarily be in control of that."

A senior US and Nato commander said Gaddafi was likely to be forced out if the coalition used its full range oif military options against him.

"If we work all the elements of power, we have a more than reasonable chance of Gaddafi leaving, because the entire international community is arrayed against him," Admiral James Stavridis, Nato's supreme allied commander in Europe said.

He also revealed that intelligence on the rebel forces had shown "flickers" of al Qaeda or Hizbollah presence, but there is still no detailed picture of who makes up the emerging Libyan opposition.

The London gathering takes place against a backdrop of increased criticism of the strikes on Gaddafi's troops and an emerging fear in the Arab world that efforts at securing a no-fly zone and protecting the public are a precursor to regime change.

Russia, as well as the African Union, did not attend the London conference at which a political "steering committee" -  involving countries such as Qatar who are not Nato members - is to be formed to provide direction for the mission.

On Monday, Russia warned there were "contradictions" in the approach taken by the allied nations, which will now operate under Nato command.

The meeting came just hours after US President Barack Obama justified the reasons behind military action.

The Pentagon said on Tuesday that military intervention in Libya has cost the US about $550 million so far, mostly for bombs and missiles.

Quote from: Steva Lazin Ljuštikin on 30-03-2011, 01:39:32
Jelil upratio još neko snimak kad libijski pobunjenik održi prikladan kratak govor pa opali metak iz Kalašnjikova a čaura mu opizdi kolegu pravo u oko? Em sam ispao iz fotelje em mi ulepšalo dan :-)

QuoteWhen unrest exploded in Libya last month, Khamis Gadhafi--the youngest son of the country's embattled leader Muammar Gadhafi--wasn't around. He was on an internship program in the United States.

Khamis, who runs Libya's special forces, quickly returned to his home country, where he has led a military unit that has brutally suppressed rebel forces.

The internship, which lasted a month, was sponsored by AECOM, a Los Angeles-based global engineering and design company that has been working with the Libyan regime to modernize the country's infrastructure. Khadis made stops in San Francisco, Colorado, Houston, Washington, and New York City, meeting with high-tech companies (including Google, Apple, and Intel), universities, and defense contractors like Northrop Grumman and Lockheed Martin. While in the Big Apple, Khamis even took in the Broadway show "Mamma Mia."

News of Khamis's internship, which was approved by the State Department, was first reported by ABC News.

Since coming home, Khamis appears to have played a key role in helping his father's regime in its violent campaign to quell the uprising. He has led the elite 32nd Reinforced Brigade, known at the Khamis Brigade, which reportedly has been involved in brutally suppressing rebel forces.

Vice Adm. William Gortney of the Joint Chiefs of Staff described the Khamis Brigade, whose headquarters were the target of U.S. Tomahawk missiles, as "one of the most active in terms of attacking innocent people."

On Monday night, Libyan television showed Khamis dressed in his military uniform and greeting people at his father's Tripoli compound.

A spokesman for AECOM told CNN that the company was "shocked and outraged" to learn of Khamis' military role.

AECOM added in a statement: "The educational internship, which consisted of publicly available information, was aligned with our efforts to improve quality of life, specifically in Libya, where we were advancing public infrastructure such as access to clean water; quality housing; safe and efficient roads and bridges; reliable and affordable energy; and related projects that create jobs and opportunity."

This isn't the first time that Gadhafi's sons--and their ties to the west -- have hit the headlines. As we've written, the regime was embarrassed after Wikileaks cables shed light on the lavish New Year's parties that another son, Muatassim, has held on the Caribbean island of St. Barts, at which Mariah Carey, Usher, and Beyonce have all been paid to perform. And the current crisis also has spotlighted the Libyan leader's own personal eccentricities.

(Soldiers and dozens of tanks from the Libyan military's elite Khamis Brigade, led by Khamis Gadhafi. take positions and check vehicles in Harshan, Libya, Feb. 28, 2011.: Ben Curtis/AP)

QuoteBritain may be willing to accept Colonel Muammar Gaddafi going into exile as a way to end the current crisis in Libya, Foreign Secretary William Hague has indicated. Skip related content


Mr Hague said he would prefer to see Col Gaddafi held to account in front of the International Criminal Court (ICC).

But Mr Hague added the dictator taking refuge abroad would bring about the kind of change that "most of the world and probably most of the Libyan people want to see".

He suggested it was up to Col Gaddafi to decide whether to flee to a safe haven outside Libya.

Italy is talking to a number of countries on a possible deal that would provide a bolthole for Col Gaddafi - possibly in another African state - along with a ceasefire in Libya and a peaceful transition to a new government.

Mr Hague also appeared to indicate that Sudan was a possible choice, as it did not hand over individuals indicted by the ICC, like its own president Omar al Bashir.

Prime Minister David Cameron held out the prospect of "a future free from violence, oppression and uncertainty" after Col Gaddafi was removed.

He used an article in the Arab press to promise that the international community would stand by the people of Libya.

In the joint article with Qatari PM Hamed Bin Jassem in the pan-Arab Asharq al Awsat newspaper, Mr Cameron said Tuesday's Libya Conference in London sent a clear message to Col Gaddafi that he will not be allowed to continue to brutalise his own people.

"And it sends a message of hope to the Libyan people too, 'We are on your side,'" the two leaders said.

"We will continue to protect their lives, defend their rights and support their aspirations - and we will continue to support them on the path that they choose to take."

Discussions on Col Gaddafi's possible fate were taking place as pressure grew for the international community to provide arms for the Libyan opposition.

The rebels are still outgunned despite 10 days of coalition air strikes on regime military assets.

Britain has so far taken the position that the arms embargo imposed by United Nations Security Council resolution 1970 applies equally to the liberated east of Libya, as to areas in the west still under Col Gaddafi's control.

But US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said it would be "legitimate" to arm the rebels, in an interpretation of the resolution that puts her country at loggerheads with Nato, which is due to take command of the Libyan campaign later.

QuoteAP: Moammar Gadhafi's forces hammered rebels with tanks and rockets, turning their rapid advance into a panicked retreat in an hourslong battle Tuesday.

Quote from: lilit_depp on 30-03-2011, 21:02:56
2. Обама ионако не вуче потезе већ то раде Јевреји, али не обични Јевреји, забога има и међу њима дивних људи, а и култура им није лоша  :cry:, него су за све криви Ционисти. 
3. Најгоре од свега је што због тих Јевреја Американци гину на Блиском Истоку, ето не би они ишли да ратују - они су доказано мирољубив народ, види се то кроз историју. 
4. И свега тога не би било да су ови Арапи демократе као Американци, а то што не иду на Сауди Арабију је само због пара, не због тога што они мисле да је тамо демократски режим. 
5. Уствари, боље би било да нема тих Јевреја, ионако сви проблеми од њих потичу. Све је било дивно док не добише државу. 

QuoteЈбт, дошло ми је да се бацим с терасе

Quote from: Mica Milovanovic on 30-03-2011, 22:59:14

QuoteЈбт, дошло ми је да се бацим с терасе

А да ли си размишљала да на комшију примениш метод из оне поучне приче Артура Кларка о Ерминтруди палац (Sirius 9) - оне млађе упућујем на СФ библиографију...

Quote from: Mica Milovanovic on 31-03-2011, 12:05:42
To nema nikakve veze sa legitimnošću zahteva

Quote from: Mica Milovanovic on 31-03-2011, 12:07:52
Ne bih se složio.

Quote from: scallop on 31-03-2011, 14:05:38
Мехо,

QuoteBy BEN HUBBARD and RYAN LUCAS, Associated Press Ben Hubbard And Ryan Lucas, Associated Press – 44 mins ago
BENGHAZI, Libya – Libya's rebels will agree to a cease-fire if Moammar Gadhafi pulls his military forces out of cities and allows peaceful protests against his regime, an opposition leader said Friday.

Mustafa Abdul-Jalil, head of the opposition's interim governing council based in Benghazi, spoke during a joint press conference with U.N. envoy Abdelilah Al-Khatib. Al-Khatib is visiting the rebels' de facto stronghold of Benghazi in hopes of reaching a political solution to the crisis embroiling the North African nation.

Abdul-Jalil said the rebels' condition for a cease-fire is "that the Gadhafi brigades and forces withdraw from inside and outside Libyan cities to give freedom to the Libyan people to choose and the world will see that they will choose freedom."

The U.N. resolution that authorized international airstrikes against Libya called for Gadhafi and the rebels to end hostilities. Gadhafi announced a cease-fire immediately but has shown no sign of heeding it. His forces continue to attack rebels in the east, where the opposition in strongest, and have besieged the only major rebel-held city in the west, Misrata.

Abdul-Jalil said the regime must withdraw its forces and lift all sieges.

He stressed the ultimate goal was Gadhafi's ouster.

"Our aim is to liberate and have sovereignty over all of Libya with its capital in Tripoli," he said.

The U.N. said Al-Khatib, arrived Thursday in Tripoli.

Forces loyal to Libya's leader of nearly 42 years spent much of this week pushing the rebels back about 100 miles (160 kilometers) along the coast, and the opposition was trying to regroup. The rebels had mortars Friday, weapons they previously appeared to have lacked, and on Thursday night they drove in a convoy with at least eight rocket launchers — more artillery than usual.

The rebels also appeared to have more communication equipment such as radios and satellite phones, and were working in more organized units, in which military defectors were each leading six or seven volunteers.

The rebels' losses this week, and others before airstrikes began March 19, underlined that their equipment, training and organization were far inferior to those of Gadhafi's forces. The recent changes appear to be an attempt to correct, or at least ease, the imbalance.

A Libyan opposition official said rebels will be able to buy more arms thanks to an oil deal they reached with the tiny Arab nation of Qatar.

Ali Tarhouni, who handles finances for the opposition's National Transitional Council, said Qatar has agreed to market oil currently in storage in rebel-controlled areas of southeastern Libya.

Tarhouni didn't say when the deal was signed or when oil shipments will begin. He said one sticking point is how to truck the oil out of the country.

Tarhouni said money from oil sales will be put into an escrow account the opposition will use to pay for weapons, food, medicine, fuel and other needs.

It was unclear where the front line was Friday. Rebels were holding journalists back at the western gate of Ajdabiya, far from the fighting.

Thursday the opposition had moved into Brega, about 50 miles (80 kilometers) east of Ajdabiya, before Gadhafi's forces pushed them out.

Gadhafi's greatest losses this week were not military but political. Two members of his inner circle, including his foreign minister, abandoned him Wednesday and Thursday, setting off speculation about other officials who may be next. The defections could sway people who have stuck with Gadhafi despite the uprising that began Feb. 15 and the international airstrikes aimed at keeping the autocrat from attacking his own people.

Libyan state TV aired a phone interview with intelligence chief Bouzeid Dorda to knock down rumors that he also left Gadhafi.

"I am in Libya and will remain here steadfast in the same camp of the revolution despite everything," Dorda said. "I never thought to cross the borders or violate commitment to the people, the revolution and the leader."

Gadhafi struck a defiant stance in a statement Thursday, saying he's not the one who should go — it's the Western leaders who attacking his military with airstrikes who should resign immediately. Gadhafi's message was undercut by its delivery — a scroll across the bottom of state TV as he remained out of sight.

The White House said the strongman's inner circle was clearly crumbling with the loss of Foreign Minister Moussa Koussa, who flew from Tunisia to England on Wednesday. Koussa is privy to all the inner workings of the regime, so his departure could open the door for some hard intelligence, though Britain refused to offer him immunity from prosecution.

Ali Abdessalam Treki, a former foreign minister and U.N. General Assembly president, announced his departure on several opposition websites the next day, saying "It is our nation's right to live in freedom and democracy and enjoy a good life."

Gadhafi accused the leaders of the countries attacking his forces of being "affected by power madness."

"The solution for this problem is that they resign immediately and their peoples find alternatives to them," the Libya state news agency quoted him as saying.

His government's forces have regained momentum on the rapidly moving front line of the battle with opposition forces, retaking the town of Brega after pushing the rebels miles back toward the territory they hold in eastern Libya.

The rebels said they were undaunted, taking heart from the departures in Gadhafi's inner circle.

"We believe that the regime is crumbling from within," opposition spokesman Mustafa Gheriani said in Benghazi, the rebels' de facto capital.

Libyan officials, who initially denied Koussa's defection, said he had resigned because he was sick with diabetes and high blood pressure. Government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim said Koussa was given permission to go to Tunisia, but the regime was surprised to learn he had flown to London.

"I talked to many people and this is not a happy piece of news, but people are saying, 'So what? If someone wants to step down that's his decision,'" Ibrahim said.

Nations behind the campaign of international airstrikes that have hobbled Libya's military hailed Koussa's resignation as a sign of weakness in Gadhafi's reign. They're hoping for nonmilitary solution, in part because the rebels have been seriously outgunned.

The U.S. has ruled out using ground troops in Libya but it is considering providing arms to the rebels.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates, however, told Congress on Thursday that the U.S. still knows little about the rebels, and that if anyone arms and trains them it should be some other country.

Asked by a lawmaker whether U.S. involvement might inevitably mean "boots on the ground" in Libya, Gates replied, "Not as long as I am in this job."

NATO is among those saying a new U.N. resolution would be required to arm rebels, though Britain and the U.S. disagree. Several world leaders oppose arming rebels, including Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who said in London that it could "create an environment which could be conducive to terrorism."

___

Lucas reported from Ajdabiya, Libya. Hadeel Al-Shalchi in Tripoli and Maggie Michael in Cairo contributed to this report.

QuoteUN workers were among as many as 20 people reportedly killed in northern Afghanistan after a Koran burning protest turned violent.

Demonstrators stormed their compound in the city of Mazar-i-Sharif, opening fire on guards and setting fires.

They had gathered in a mass protest following reports that an American pastor had recently set a copy of the Muslim holy book ablaze in Florida.

Police said the dead included three foreign members of the UN, five Nepalese United Nations guards and three Afghan protesters. Two are said to have been beheaded.

UN officials have been reported saying as many as 20 have died.

Other reports said several hundred demonstrators were peacefully protesting against the Koran burning when the violence broke out.

Afghanistan had earlier condemned the "disrespectful and abhorrent" burning of the Koran by evangelical preacher Pastor Wayne Sapp in a Florida church on March 21, calling it an effort to incite tension between religions.

It was carried out under the supervision of Terry Jones, who planned to burn a pile of the holy books last year to mark the anniversary of the 2001 terrorist attacks in New York.

He aborted the move under pressure from world leaders including the US president, who has strongly criticised the latest violence.

The pastor described Friday's incident as "tragic and criminal". "The time has come to hold Islam accountable," he said.

QuoteThe United Nations has condemned an attack on a compound in Afghanistan that has left at least 12 people dead including seven UN staff. Skip related content


Protesters stormed the compound in the northern city of Mazar-i-Sharif, grabbing weapons from guards and opening fire.

They had gathered following reports an American pastor in Florida had set a copy of the Koran on fire.

Initial reports said up to 20 UN workers had been killed. Two people are said to have been beheaded.

As well as condemning the violence members of the UN Security Council called on the Afghan government to bring those responsible to justice.

An Afghan official said police had arrested the suspected mastermind behind the attack. He was one of more than 20 detained by officers.

One of the victims was Lt Col Siri Skare, a 53-year-old female pilot from Norway. A 33-year-old Swede and four UN guards from Nepal were among the others.

The nationality of the seventh UN worker to die has not been released, although he or she is not thought to be British.

Several hundred people were holding a peaceful demonstration against the Koran burning when the violence broke out.

Afghanistan had earlier condemned the "disrespectful and abhorrent" burning of the Muslim holy book by evangelical preacher Pastor Wayne Sapp in a Florida church on March 21.

It was carried out under the supervision of controversial pastor Terry Jones, who was barred from entering the UK in February after organising a similar stunt last year

Mr Jones planned to burn a pile of the holy books to mark the anniversary of the 2001 terrorist attacks in New York, but aborted the move under pressure from world leaders including US president Barack Obama.

Speaking to Sky News, the pastor attempted to defend the burning of the Koran and launched another attack on Islam. He described Friday's deaths as "tragic and criminal".

President Obama condemned the killings and called for restraint on both sides. UN secretary-general Ban Ki-moon also denounced the attacks, calling them "outrageous and cowardly".

UK Foreign Secretary William Hague said: "I call upon the Afghan government to investigate this incident and bring the perpetrators to justice."

Quote from: Melkor on 02-04-2011, 20:51:35
Do juce smo pratili svaki predjeni kilometar u Libiji, svaku izjavu u Siriji i Jemenu... Danas, Libija je 5. u vestima, nema minute by minute update-a... hmmm.

QuoteLibya's rebel force has claimed 13 of their fighters and seven civilians were accidentally killed in a coalition air strike near Brega in the east of the country.

And one of the rebels' spokesmen said civilians may have died in a separate air raid that could have been carried out by their planes outside the same town.

Brega is one of a string of oil towns along the coast that have been won and lost by the opposition in recent weeks.

After coalition airstrikes began on March 19, the rebels raced forward to recapture the towns of Ajdabiyah, Brega and Ras Lanuf.

But instead of advancing towards Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's home town of Sirte and the capital Tripoli, the rag-tag rebel group has been forced to retreat and is struggling to hang on to many of its gains.

Opposition fighters have now taken up defensive positions near Brega following their dramatic reversal of fortune.

It was about 10 miles east of the town that the coalition air raid happened, according to a rebel official.

Issa Khamis said the four civilian victims were an ambulance driver and three medical students from the second city of Benghazi, who were part of a rebel convoy of five or six vehicles.

Rebel fighters were reportedly shooting tracer fire into the air to celebrate a group of them advancing into the city when the air strike happened.

But one rebel fighter Mustafa Ali Omar claimed some of Col Gaddafi's forces had sneaked in among the rebels and fired anti-aircraft guns in the air.

"After that the Nato forces came and bombed them," he added.

A Nato spokeswoman said the coalition was looking into the reports.

But the opposition force remains defiant even as Col Gaddafi's forces renew attacks on Misratah - the main city the rebels still hold in western Libya.

Residents said government forces have continued their intense bombardment, and medical officials claim six civilians were killed by sniper fire and the army shelling the area on Saturday.

Doctors said 243 people have been killed and 1,000 others wounded in more than a month and a half of fighting between the two sides.

Amid fierce battles, rebel leaders said they would accept a ceasefire if Col Gaddafi's forces withdrew from key areas they have besieged.

But the regime mocked the offer, dismissing it as "mad".

Libyan government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim said: "The rebels never offered any peace.

"We are the ones who offered peace weeks ago, and we said we are going to talk, and let's sit down.

"The rebels - you're not offering peace if you are making impossible demands. It's a trick."

Furthermore, reports of the rebel deaths come after the Libyan government claimed Western airstrikes at a village nine miles from Brega killed at least 12 civilians and wounded dozens more.

The attack hit a truck carrying ammunition for Col Gaddafi's forces and the resulting explosion destroyed two homes.

However, rebels have told Sky News it was their aircraft that was flying that day.

Security editor Sam Kiley, reporting from Ajdabiya, said if that is true, it showed Nato was prepared to be highly flexible in its interpretation of the no-fly zone.

"One might have assumed the no-fly zone applied to all aircraft," he said.

"But clearly, in negotiation with Nato - which is responsible for policing that no-fly zone - there is a possibility the rebels can get into the air.

"The rebels told us that they were able to conduct some airstrikes between 5.10pm and 6.30pm local time on Wednesday.

"They have not been in the air since. They don't have many planes and they're not of the sophisticated type that Nato has.

"Therefore there's more vulnerability to the civilian population for deaths."

Nato airstrikes have been reduced considerably in the past three days due to adverse weather conditions.

Officials have said cloud cover and sandstorms have made it difficult to distinguish between Col Gaddafi's forces, rebels and civilians.

Speaking on Sky News, Defence Secretary Liam Fox hit back at Libyan claims that coalition air strikes were killing civilians.

He said the military intervention had avoided hitting targets where innocent people might be hurt and insisted its leaders held the "moral high ground".

"Isn't it the ultimate in hypocrisy for them to talk about casualties among the civilian population when they are on a daily basis, shelling housing, schools, hospitals, mosques in cities like Misratah, inflicting who knows what death and destruction on their own people?"

"The international coalition has been extraordinarily careful to avoid civilian casualties where at all possible.

"We are there to try to stop the Gaddafi regime indiscriminately killing people inside their own country."

Meanwhile, the US is preparing to withdraw its planes from the allied military operation.

US Defence Secretary Robert Gates said American combat missions would end on Saturday, with Nato partners and other coalition nations picking up the slack.

Mr Gates said no one should be surprised by the move, although he called the timing "unfortunate".

The US will continue to help with aerial refuelling, search and rescue, and aerial reconnaissance.

Quote from: varvarin on 30-03-2011, 22:41:08

Quote from: lilit_depp on 30-03-2011, 21:02:56
2. Обама ионако не вуче потезе већ то раде Јевреји, али не обични Јевреји, забога има и међу њима дивних људи, а и култура им није лоша  :cry:, него су за све криви Ционисти. 
3. Најгоре од свега је што због тих Јевреја Американци гину на Блиском Истоку, ето не би они ишли да ратују - они су доказано мирољубив народ, види се то кроз историју. 
4. И свега тога не би било да су ови Арапи демократе као Американци, а то што не иду на Сауди Арабију је само због пара, не због тога што они мисле да је тамо демократски режим. 
5. Уствари, боље би било да нема тих Јевреја, ионако сви проблеми од њих потичу. Све је било дивно док не добише државу. 

MILOŠE  BOJANIĆU,  OPROSTI NAM!!!  :cry:

QuoteA militant preacher in Florida whose Koran burning triggered deadly riots in Afghanistan has vowed to lead an anti-Islam protest outside the biggest mosque in America.

The planned demonstration could further inflame tensions over the Koran burning, which led to two days of protests in Afghanistan that included the killings of UN staff and stoked anti-Western sentiment across the Muslim world.

"Our aim is to make an awareness of the radical element of Islam," pastor Terry Jones said at the church he leads in the college town of Gainesville, Florida.

"Obviously it is terrible any time people are murdered or killed - I think that on the other hand, it shows the radical element of Islam."

Jones, a former hotel manager turned pastor who claims the Koran incites violence, said he will go ahead with a protest on April 22 in front of the US' largest mosque, in Dearborn, Michigan.

US President Barack Obama denounced the act of burning a Koran but did not mention Jones by name.

"The desecration of any holy text, including the Koran, is an act of extreme intolerance and bigotry," Mr Obama said in a statement released by the White House.

"However, to attack and kill innocent people in response is outrageous, and an affront to human decency and dignity."

Government officials in Pakistan and Afghanistan have called for US authorities to arrest Jones, however his public criticism of Islam and desecration of the Koran are allowed under US laws protecting free speech.

Jones provoked an international outcry last year over his plan to burn copies of the Koran on the anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, with Mr Obama saying it would cause "profound damage" to the US.

He backed down after pleas from the US government and other world officials, but then presided over a March 20 mock trial of the Koran that included a torching of the book.

Internet footage later reverberated across the Muslim world and sparked the latest wave of violence.

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 03-04-2011, 08:01:57
Dobro je znati da iza američkog predsednika koji je verovatno musliman, a skoro sigurno nije američki državljanin (barem su tako tvrdili njegovi politički oponenti i među republikancima i među demokratama) stoji cionistički lobi. Odmah se čovek bezbednije oseća. Ipak su ti cionisti ekipa sa pedigreom i tradicijom.

QuoteColonel Muammar Gaddafi's regime planned to put down protests by killing civilians before the uprising began, the International Criminal Court believes.

Anti-Libyan government demonstrations which started in February soon descended into civil war after the dictator's forces opened fire on protesters.

Court prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo is to report back to the UN on May 4, and is then expected to request arrest warrants.

He said: "We have evidence that after the Tunisia and Egypt conflicts in January, people in the regime were planning how to control demonstrations inside Libya.

"They were hiding that from people outside and they were planning how to manage the crowds.

"The evidence we have is that the shooting of civilians was a pre-determined plan."

He added: "The planning at the beginning was to use tear gas and (if that failed to work) shooting."

Meanwhile, Sky News has returned to Zawiyah - a town which saw a bloody uprising put down by Col Gaddafi's troops.

Correspondent Stuart Ramsay discovered that the mosque which had been at the heart of the rebellion was razed to the ground.

In Tripoli, government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim appeared to admit for the first time that civilians had been killed during battles in Zawiyah.

But he blamed "armed militias" rather than Col Gaddafi's troops.

Elsewhere in Libya, Nato forces have reportedly launched air strikes on government forces near the key oil town of Brega.

It came as David Cameron said there was no future for Libya while the dictator was still in charge.

The Prime Minister said: "How could there be when he's literally been trying to butcher his own people?"

Rebels said the troops' convoy of eight vehicles was hit early on Tuesday and two trucks mounted with machine guns were destroyed.

Both sides are battling for control of the key eastern port, which has changed hands several times.

Rebel attempts to fire rockets and mortars against government forces have been met with counter-attacks, sending rebel forces scrambling many miles east towards Ajdabiya.

Opposition fighters have been asking the coalition to assist them with bombardments against the dictator's troops for days.

Sky's Sam Kiley, in Ajdabiya, said: "The fact that there have been some air strikes, we believe, should be very encouraging to them (the rebels).

"(The rebels) are very anxious to take the oil terminal at Brega so they can begin to export oil through an arrangement with Qatar."

The Libyan regime has said it is ready to discuss reforms to its political system, but insists that Col Gaddafi must be allowed to stay in the country.

Nato says its aerial onslaught has destroyed 30% of Libya's military weapons. The alliance's warplanes have flown 851 sorties since taking command of UN-backed military action last week.

Meanwhile, an oil tanker has arrived at a rebel-held eastern port in Tobruk, where it is expected to be loaded for the first time in nearly three weeks.