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World today (Ni Srbija ni zemlje u okruženju)

Started by Loni, 25-06-2010, 14:43:08

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varvarin

Quote from: Mica Milovanovic on 16-03-2011, 12:34:46
Meho, bojim se da nisi u pravu.
Ovo je nešto najače što si rek'o do sada!!  ;)

Meho Krljic

Pa ja uglavnom razmišljam naglas. Naravno da je Varvarin u pravu kad veli da žrtva malog broja ljudi za veće dobro velikog broja ljudi zvuči kao prava stvar i naravno da treba pozdraviti svakog sa jajima da to i učini. Kao neko ko nikada nije bio u prilici da tako testira svoju čovečnost i testise, svakako neću sad da serendžam kako su ti ljudi koji tako nešto urade zapravo romantične budale itd. Takvi postupci zaslužuju samo najdublje poštovanje.

Ali o istom trošku, nezgodno je ako počnemo da razmišljamo u terminima dužnosti. Pročitajmo još jednom citate iz vesti:

QuoteAn official at the plant confirmed the workers' return as government spokesperson Yukio Edano said radiation levels are not high enough to cause an immediate health risk.

Nigde ne piše da oni idu tamo da spreče dalju eskalaciju katastrofe, da bi spasli ljude od još veće opasnosti. Piše da se radnici vraćaju jer radijacija nije dovoljno snažna da predstavlja neposredan zdravstveni rizik. U istoj vesti gde se govori da je 140,000 ljudi dobilo sugestiju da ostane kod kuće da ne bi bilo ozračeno.

Tu sam ja nervozan jer se u neku ruku može tumačiti da je njihova dužnost da rade u uslovima ogromnog rizika a nigde se ne vidi da je to da bi se sprečili još veći rizici.

Albedo 0

''radiation levels are not high enough to cause an immediate health risk''

immediate - ključna riječ



QuoteIli ovo nikako nije srpski fazon u razmišljanju?

Vidiš, ovo sa Vinčom kaže da i Srbi imaju trunku ljudskosti u sebi. naravno, treba provjeriti šta se desilo sa porodicama tih ljudi i da li im se država odužila na pravi način, kao što znamo da će Japan učiniti sa svojim ljudima.

Mica Milovanovic

Meho, pobogu, valjda ti je jasno da moraju da žrtvuju određen broj ljudi da spreče veće sranje - ako se to uopšte može sprečiti. Kakav crni rad u uslovima većeg rizika.
Mica

Meho Krljic

Pa, sad.. nije mi jasno jer to ne piše u vesti koju sam citirao. Ti i Varvarin to podrazumevate.

varvarin

Quote from: Meho Krljic on 16-03-2011, 12:52:53
Pa, sad.. nije mi jasno jer to ne piše u vesti koju sam citirao. Ti i Varvarin to podrazumevate.
Ne podrazumevam ništa, pitam se šta bih ja uradio.
Još se pitam.

Usput... negde sredinom sedamdesetih, sa dna tokijskog zaliva izvađena je japanska podmornica, potopljena na samom kraju rata, jula 1945. Avion ju je tako pogodio, da je podmornica samo legla na dno: Svi živi, pogon mrtav, kiseonika malo, dubina velika da bi vojska pokušala spasavanje...
Kad su izvukli podmornicu, svi članovi posade nađeni su na svojim borbenim mestima: kao da su zaspali. Kapetan je bio u svojoj kabini, a na stolu, u nepromočivom omotu - tri  pisma: prvo caru, gde se izvinjava zbog gubitka broda, drugo - svom komandantu, gde objašnjava razloge potapanja, treće - svojoj ženi.
Priča malo kaže o jednom mentalitetu... I klanjam se tom kapetanu, do zemlje.

Meho Krljic

Ja ne bih da se shvatimo pogrešno. Klanjanje je na mestu u ovakvim situacijama. Samo velim da se iz vesti ne vidi da je u pitanju ovakva situacija. Idu li ti ljudi da spasu tuđe živote ili da smanje štetu japanskoj privredi? Sigurno, i japansku privredu treba spasavati, ali po koju cenu?

Albedo 0

pa ipak je to nuklearka, to je već pitanje i državne bezbednosti, ne samo privatnih gubitaka vlasnika elektrane

Mislim, kada su Rusi detektovali u Vladivostoku povišeni nivo radijacije onda je sigurno ozbiljno.

džin tonik

cernobil ca. pola miliona likvidatora. a ovo je daleko gore.

scallop

Mića i Varvarin su inženjeri i oni drugačije posmatraju situaciju od amatera. Ultimativna katastrofa podrazumeva i mogućnost da se Zemlja prosvira do jezgra što nikome ne bi prijalo. Kamikaze su se žrtvovale za daleko manje. Negde 1963. vlasnici nuklearnog naoružanja su se očas posla dogovorili da prekinu sve nuklearne probe, osim podzemnih. Razlog je bio što je radijacioni nivo u atmosferi prevazišao sva očekivanja i postao globalna pretnja. "Pet milja" je zataškan, a "Černobil" je prozujao kroz veći deo Evrope. Ako se Fukušima ne svede na nivo tih katastrofa biće kuku-lele. U zoni će biti cela severna hemisfera (blago zaostalima) i jedina dobra okolnost je što je ugrožena odgovorna nacija. Oni će učiniti sve što je moguće.
Ono što je meni nejasno je zašto su te NE podizane na jugositočnoj a ne na severozapadnoj obali. Valjda razlog nije "pretnja" Kine? Te fobije znaju da budu krajnje kontraproduktivne.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

mac

Verovatno je manja naseljenost na severozapadu.

Meho Krljic

Pa, ja sam sin dvoje inženjera i unuk još dvoje, i sam školovan za inženjera (ali neuspešno). Ne sporim ja sve to ako je to tako kako pričamo, ali velim da se ne vidi da li je tako iz onoga što piše.

scallop

A na suprotnoj strani je Vatreni zid! Ipak je politička paranoja.

Meho, ima nešto i u belinama.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

Mica Milovanovic

Ja ne znam razlog zbog čega su podizane na toj obali, ali da sam na njihovom mestu podizao bih ih na obali sa koje vetrovi pretežno duvaju ka moru.
Mica

Meho Krljic

Quote from: scallop on 16-03-2011, 16:29:05
Meho, ima nešto i u belinama.

Pogotovo ono što čovek sam u njih upiše.  :lol:

scallop

Onima koji znaju da pišu i nije teško. Teško je onima koji jedva i pročitaju.

Mićo, lepa ti je misao o vetrovima, ali svi tajfuni (uragani) se lome sa te strane, da ne govorimo o potresi sa Vatrene linije.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

pokojni Steva

Saif Gadafi traži natrag novce koje su dali Šarkoziju za predizbornu kampanju. Kako je ovo jako :-)
Jelte, jel' i kod vas petnaes' do pola dvanaes'?

džin tonik

Quote from: scallop on 16-03-2011, 16:09:24
Mića i Varvarin su inženjeri i oni drugačije posmatraju situaciju od amatera. ...

pa dobro, ima li na ovom forumu i normalnih ljudi???

Mme Chauchat

Pa šta bi hteo, ovo je ipak primarno srpski forum.

Josephine


sekta

Quote from: Josipovitch Broznjev

pa dobro, ima li na ovom forumu i normalnih ljudi???
/quote]                                                                                                                  xrofl

Meho Krljic

Sudeći po današnjim napisima u štampi, ja sam bio u krivu, ostali su bili u pravu.

Heroji Fukušime žrtvuju živote da zaustave havariju

QuoteNEMANJA VLAČO | 17. 03. 2011. - 00:02h | Foto: AFP | Komentara: 0

TOKIO - Pogledi stanovnika Japana i juče su bile uprti u grupu od 50 radnika koji su ostali u nuklearnoj centrali Fukušima 1 pokušavajući da upumpavanjem morske vode ohlade jezgro reaktora i spreče nove eksplozije i požare. Organizacija "Grinpis" tvrdi da novi heroji Japana rade u smenama od po 15 minuta kako bi što manje bili izloženi zračenju. To je daleko više od 15 sekundi koliko su se sovjetski radnici zadržavali u zoni najveće radijacije tokom havarije u Černobilju 1986. godine.


Radnici u nuklearki Fukušima 1 bili su prinuđeni da privremeno napuste postrojenje, ali su se potom vratili i nastavili da rade u ekstremno opasnim uslovima.
"Ljudi koji rade u ovim nuklearkama bore se i ne nameravaju da ustuknu. Sada mogu samo da se molim za sve njih. Molim vas ne zaboravite da su to ljudi koji štite tuđe živote umesto svojih", napisala je na japanskoj društvenoj mreži "Miksi" Mičiko Otsuki, radnica susedne nuklearke Fukušima 2 čije je osoblje u međuvremenu evakuisano.


Dejvid Brener, direktor Centra za radiološka istraživanja na američkom Kolumbija univerzitetu, smatra da su radnici koji su preostali u centrali Fukušima 1 pod "značajnim rizikom", imajući u vidu nivo radijacije kojem su izloženi.
"Na mnogo načina oni su već heroji", kazao je Brener za Bi-Bi-Si.


Naoto Kan, premijer Japana, pozdravio je napore i hrabrost grupe od 50 radnika energetske kompanije TEPKO, a njegov portparol Jukio Edano priznao je da je njihovo zdravlje ugroženo.


"Oni rade na upumpavanju vode, rade najbolje što mogu i ni ne pomišljaju na opasnost", rekao je Edano.


Japanske vlasti još uvek nisu saopštile kolike su maksimalne doze radijacije kojima bi preostali radnici mogli da budu izloženi, kao ni to da li se razmišlja o njihovoj zameni. Ukoliko problem u nuklearki ne bude ubrzo rešen, oni će na kraju sigurno biti izloženi opasnim dozama ili će morati da se evakuišu. Po nekim spekulacijama, vlasti razmišljaju da pozovu i volontere iz drugih nuklearki ili penzionisane radnike.


Prema podacima "Grinpisa", ekološke organizacije koja se protivi upotrebi nuklearne energije, zaštitna oprema koju nose zaposleni u centrali Fukušima 1 nimalo im ne garantuje bezbednost od radijacije.


"Prilično sam siguran da su radnici koji su ostali unutra izloženi visokom stepenu zračenja. Ne radi se samo o riziku od dugoročnih posledica, mogu i odmah da se razbole. Po našim informacijama, oni rade u smenama od po 15 minuta", tvrdi Rijan Teule, antinuklearna aktivistkinja "Grinpisa". Britanski list "Indipendent" podseća da je pre 25 godina, nakon katastrofe u Černobilju, na saniranju havarije nuklearke angažovan tim starijih stručnjaka koji su se prijavili pošto nisu brinuli zbog dugoročnih posledica, poput raka. Kasnije su sovjetske vlasti poslale u Černobilj hiljade radnika za operaciju čišćenja, a neki od njih su se smenjivali čak i na 15 sekundi.


Japanski car Akihito obratio se juče naciji, ističući da je duboko zabrinut zbog krize u nuklearnom postrojenju Fukušima i pozvao ljude da u teškim vremenima pomognu jedni drugima. Japanska Nacionalna policijska agencija saopštila je da je broj žrtava zemljotresa i cunamija porastao na više od 11.000, uključujući 3.676 do sada potvrđenih smrtnih slučajeva u 12 prefektura i 7.843 osobe koje se vode kao nestale u šest prefektura. Sajt Vikiliks objavio je dokumente po kojima je Japan u decembru 2008. ignorisao upozorenja Međunarodne agencije za atomsku energiju o tome da su zemljotresi velika opasnost po nuklearne elektrane u toj državi.


Meho Krljic

I još malo panike:

U.S. shows growing alarm over Japan nuclear crisis

QuoteBy Jeff Mason and Tom Doggett Jeff Mason And Tom Doggett – Thu Mar 17, 12:24 am ET
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The United States showed increasing alarm about Japan's nuclear crisis on Wednesday and urged its citizens to stay clear of an earthquake-crippled power plant, going further in its warnings than Japan itself.

The State Department said the United States has chartered aircraft to help Americans leave Japan and had authorized the voluntary departure of family members of diplomatic staff in Tokyo, Nagoya and Yokohama -- about 600 people.

"The State Department strongly urges U.S. citizens to defer travel to Japan at this time and those in Japan should consider departing," it said.

As operators of the Fukushima plant tried to douse overheating reactors, U.S. officials warned about the risks of getting anywhere near the area and relied on their own officials for details about the danger.

"The situation has deteriorated in the days since the tsunami and ... the situation has grown at times worse with potential greater damage and fallout from the reactor," White House spokesman Jay Carney told reporters.

U.S. officials took pains not to criticize the Japanese government, which has shown signs of being overwhelmed by the crisis that began after last Friday's devastating 9.0 magnitude earthquake and resulting tsunami.

But Washington's actions indicated a divide with the Japanese about the perilousness of the situation.

U.S. President Barack Obama told Japanese Prime Minister Naoto Kan in a telephone call that the United States will do all it can to help Japan recover, the White House said.

"The president briefed Prime Minister Kan on the additional support being provided by the U.S., including specialized military assets with expertise in nuclear response and consequence management," it said in a statement.

The State Department recommended that U.S. citizens within 50 miles of the plant leave the area or stay indoors.

Japan's government has asked people living within 12 miles to evacuate and those between 12 miles and 18 miles to stay indoors.

PLUME OF RADIATION

Gregory Jaczko, the top U.S. nuclear regulator, cast doubt on efforts to cool overheating reactors, saying workers may be hit with "lethal doses" of radiation.

"It would be very difficult for emergency workers to get near the reactors," Jaczko said.

A United Nations forecast projects the radioactive plume from the Fukushima facility would reach the Aleutian Islands on Thursday and hit Southern California late on Friday, The New York Times reported.

The projection, calculated on Tuesday and obtained by the newspaper, gives no information about actual radiation levels, it said. Health and nuclear experts emphasize that radiation in the plume will be diluted as it travels and will have extremely minor health consequences in the United States, it reported.

The U.S. military has ordered its forces to stay 50 miles away from the plant, the Pentagon said. There are at least 55,000 members of the U.S. forces in Japan and offshore assisting the relief operation.

"All of us are heartbroken by the images of what's happening in Japan and we're reminded of how American leadership is critical to our closest allies," Obama said in Washington.

"Even if those allies are themselves economically advanced and powerful, there are moments where they need our help, and we're bound together by a common humanity."

CONFLICTING REPORTS

The State Department's warning to U.S. citizens was based on new information collected by the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission, Department of Energy and other U.S. sources.

The United States is trying to deploy equipment in Japan that can detect radiation exposure at ground level, U.S. Energy Secretary Steven Chu told a congressional hearing.

The detection system is part of equipment and 39 personnel from the Energy Department sent to Japan, he said. It has also provided equipment to monitor airborne radiation.

The United States is deploying more radiation monitors on Hawaii and other U.S. islands even though it does not expect harmful levels of radiation to reach U.S. soil, environmental regulators said.

Chu declined to tell lawmakers, when asked, whether he was satisfied with Japan's response so far to its nuclear crisis.

"I can't really say. I think we hear conflicting reports," Chu said. "This is one of the reasons why (the United States is) there with boots on the ground ... to know what is really happening."

Beyond the risk to workers at or near the damaged nuclear plant, one scientist, Dr. Ira Helfand, warned of possible widespread contamination of people and land.

"We need ... to focus on the radioactive isotopes being dispersed at some distance from the plant, because this is going to cause a whole different set of health problems," Helfand, past president of the anti-nuclear group Physicians for Social Responsibility, said in a telephone briefing.

The Obama administration has maintained its support for expanding U.S. use of nuclear energy despite renewed fears about its safety after the events in Japan.

But Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said on Wednesday the crisis raised questions about the use of nuclear energy in the United States.

"What's happening in Japan raises questions about the costs and the risks associated with nuclear power but we have to answer those," she said in an interview with MSNBC in which she emphasized the need for a comprehensive U.S. energy policy.

"We get 20 percent of our energy right now in the United States from nuclear power."

(Additional reporting by Ayesha Rascoe, David Morgan, Andrew Quinn, Paul Eckert, Matt Spetalnick, Alister Bull, Patricia Zengerle, Steve Holland, Deborah Zabarenko and Phil Stewart; Editing by Peter Cooney and John O'Callaghan)


Neki od citata ovde deluju bizarno, na primer: "All of us are heartbroken by the images of what's happening in Japan and we're reminded of how American leadership is critical to our closest allies," Obama said in Washington.

WTF??? Ovo je pravi trenutak da se podvuče važnost američkog predvođenja njenih saveznika? Na koje su onomad bacali nuklearne bombe?

Father Jape

Quote from: Meho Krljic link=topic=9198.msg315349#msg315349
WTF??? Ovo je pravi trenutak da se podvuče važnost američkog predvođenja njenih
i]saveznika[/i]? Na koje su onomad bacali nuklearne bombe?

Ih, pa to su bacali u tvoje vreme, u modernom hip smislu svi osim Osovine Zla!(tm) i onih zemalja treceg sveta za koje niko nije cuo su nasi saveznici.
Blijedi čovjek na tragu pervertita.
To je ta nezadrživa napaljenost mladosti.
Dušman u odsustvu Dušmana.

Cornelius

Quote from: Mica Milovanovic on 16-03-2011, 16:38:46
Ja ne znam razlog zbog čega su podizane na toj obali, ali da sam na njihovom mestu podizao bih ih na obali sa koje vetrovi pretežno duvaju ka moru.

Verovatno jer je bilo jeftinije ili su bili bolji bakšiši onima koji su potpisivali dozvole...

Japanske nuklearne centrale, a za to se znalo, nisu bile gradjene za previše jake zemljotrese (da bi se uštedele pare i ostvario veći profit) i nisu održavano onako kako treba (da bi se uštedele pare i ostvario veći profit). Firma koja eksploatiše te nuklearke, lažirala je dokumenta o stanju reaktora tokom dve decenije (da bi se uštedele pare i ostvario veći profit).

Najtužnije od svega je što sada vatriraju ljude tamo da se žrtvuju i pokušaju da sipaju vodu ili da remontuju nešto. Oni će posle umreti, a firma koja eksploatiše nuklearke, opet će da lažira i da mulja (da bi se uštedele pare i ostvario veći profit), kao što nam rade trejderi i bankari (neposredno odgovorni za svetsku finansijsku krizu) u ovom trenutku.

Činjenica je da ljudska pohlepa makes world go 'round, ali ta ista pohlepa nam jebe milu majku, pa masovno stradamo u raznim planetarnim ratovima, epidemijama, krizama i katastrofama.
Je n'ai aucune confiance dans la justice, même si cette justice est faite par moi.

lilit

Mene stomak zaboli čim pomislim na ljude koji uzaludno pokušavaju da upumpaju faking vodu ne bi li ohladili reaktor.  :(
That's how it is with people. Nobody cares how it works as long as it works.

varvarin

Quote from: Mica Milovanovic on 16-03-2011, 16:38:46
Ja ne znam razlog zbog čega su podizane na toj obali, ali da sam na njihovom mestu podizao bih ih na obali sa koje vetrovi pretežno duvaju ka moru.

Tako je! Nek ide prema Americi...

Cornelius

Kao i uvek, oni koji su odgovorni za nedovoljnu sigurnost centrala, sada su daleko, zaštićeni, bezbedni, čekajući da se sve završi, pa da ponovo krenu da otimaju. Umiru, kao i uvek, oni koji su dole:

"L'oncle de [mon épouse] travaille à la centrale. Il nous a envoyé un email qui était plutôt un au revoir", a témoigné sur France Info un Français vivant au Japon.

"Ujak (moje supruge) radi u centrali. On nam je poslao mejl koji je neka vrsta opraštanja", posvedočio je na France Info jedan Francuz koji živi u Japanu.
Je n'ai aucune confiance dans la justice, même si cette justice est faite par moi.

Plut



Meho Krljic

Dobro, sad, Dejli Mejl, to je nešto ko Kurir kod nas...

Rojters, pak veli ovo:

Japan weighs need to bury nuclear plant

QuoteBy Shinichi Saoshiro and Mayumi Negishi Shinichi Saoshiro And Mayumi Negishi – 1 hr 7 mins ago
TOKYO (Reuters) – Japanese engineers conceded on Friday that burying a crippled nuclear plant in sand and concrete may be a last resort to prevent a catastrophic radiation release, the method used to seal huge leakages from Chernobyl in 1986.

But they still hoped to solve the crisis by fixing a power cable to at least two reactors to restart water pumps needed to cool overheating nuclear fuel rods. Workers also sprayed water on the No.3 reactor, the most critical of the plant's six.

It was the first time the facility operator had acknowledged burying the sprawling complex was possible, a sign that piecemeal actions such as dumping water from military helicopters or scrambling to restart cooling pumps may not work.

"It is not impossible to encase the reactors in concrete. But our priority right now is to try and cool them down first," an official from the plant operator, Tokyo Electric Power Co, told a news conference.

As Japan entered its second week after a 9.0-magnitude earthquake and 10-meter (33-foot) tsunami flattened coastal cities and killed thousands of people, the world's worst nuclear crisis since Chernobyl looked far from over.

Millions of people in Tokyo continued to work from home, some fearing a blast of radioactive material from the complex, 240 km (150 miles) to the north, although prevailing winds would likely carry contaminated smoke or steam away from the densely populated city to dissipate over the Pacific Ocean.

Radiation levels recorded in areas near the plant did not pose an immediate risk to human health, said Michael O'Leary, the World Health Organisation's representative in China.

"At this point, there is still no evidence that there's been significant radiation spread beyond the immediate zone of the reactors themselves," O'Leary told reporters in Beijing.

Japan's nuclear disaster has triggered global alarm and reviews of safety at atomic power plants around the world.

President Barack Obama, who stressed the United States did not expect harmful radiation to reach its shores, said he had ordered a comprehensive review of domestic nuclear plants and pledged Washington's support for Japan.

The Group of Seven rich nations, stepping in together to calm global financial markets after a tumultuous week, agreed to join in rare concerted intervention to restrain a soaring yen.

The top U.S. nuclear regulator said it could take weeks to reverse the overheating of fuel rods at the Fukushima Daiichi plant.

"This is something that will take some time to work through, possibly weeks, as you eventually remove the majority of the heat from the reactors and then the spent-fuel pools," Nuclear Regulatory Commission Chairman Gregory Jaczko told a news conference at the White House.

SAND AND CONCRETE SOLUTION MOOTED

Yukiya Amano, head of the Vienna-based International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), called the crisis "grave and serious" and urged Japan's prime minister to release better information after arriving in Tokyo on Friday with a team of four experts.

"They are racing against time to cool it down and then to contain it. It is worse than it was at the beginning, but I don't know compared with yesterday," he said, adding that the experts would travel to the reactors on Saturday or Sunday.

Graham Andrew, his senior aide, said helicopters used to dump water on the plant had shown exposure to small amounts of radiation. "The situation remains very serious, but there has been no significant worsening since yesterday," Andrew said.

The nuclear agency said the radiation level at the plant was as high as 20 millisieverts per hour. The limit for the workers was 100 per hour.

Even if engineers restore power at the plant, it was not clear the pumps would work as they may have been damaged in the earthquake, tsunami or subsequent explosions and there are fears of the electricity shorting and causing another blast.

Japan's nuclear agency spokesman, Hidehiko Nishiyama, said it was also unclear how effective spraying water on the reactors from helicopters had been on Thursday. The priority was to get water into the spent-fuel pools, he said.

"We have to reduce the heat somehow and may use seawater," he told a news conference. "We need to get the reactors back online as soon as possible and that's why we're trying to restore power to them."

Asked about burying the reactors in sand and concrete, he said: "That solution is in the back of our minds, but we are focused on cooling the reactors down."

Jaczko said the cooling pool for spent-fuel rods at the complex's reactor No.4 may have run dry and another was leaking.

An official at the plant operator said he expected power to be restored at its most troubled and damaged reactors -- No.3 and No.4 -- by Sunday. Engineers are trying to reconnect power to the least damaged reactors first.

DOLLAR GAINS AS FINANCIAL LEADERS INTERVENE

The U.S. dollar surged more than two yen to 81.80 after the G7's pledge to intervene, leaving behind a record low of 76.25 hit on Thursday.

Japan's Nikkei share index ended up 2.7 percent, recouping some of the week's stinging losses. It has lost 10.2 percent this week.

U.S. markets, which had tanked earlier in the week on the back of the crisis, rebounded on Thursday but investors were not convinced the advance would last.

The yen has seen steady buying since the earthquake, as Japanese and international investors closed long positions in higher-yielding, riskier assets such as the Australian dollar, funded by cheap borrowing in the Japanese currency.

Expectations that Japanese insurers and companies would repatriate billions of dollars in overseas funds to pay for a reconstruction bill that is expected to be much costlier than the one that followed the Kobe earthquake in 1995 also have helped boost the yen.

850,00 WITHOUT ELECTRICITY; WATER SUPPLIES LOW

The plight of hundreds of thousands left homeless by the earthquake and tsunami worsened following a cold snap that brought heavy snow to worst-affected areas.

Supplies of water, heating oil and fuel are low at evacuation centers, where many survivors wait bundled in blankets. Many elderly lack proper medical supplies. Food is often rationed.

The government said on Friday it was considering moving some of the hundreds of thousands of evacuees to parts of the country unscathed by the devastation.

About 850,000 households in the north were still without electricity in near-freezing weather, Tohuku Electric Power Co. said, and the government said at least 1.6 million households lacked running water.

The National Police Agency said on Friday it had confirmed 6,539 deaths from the quake and tsunami disaster, exceeding 6,434 who died after the Kobe earthquake in 1995. But 10,354 people are still missing.

RADIATION WITHIN TOKYO AT AVERAGE LEVELS

The government has told everyone living within 20 km (12 miles) of the plant to evacuate, and advised people within 30 km (18 miles) to stay indoors.

The U.S. embassy in Tokyo has urged citizens living within 80 km (50 miles) of the Daiichi plant to evacuate or remain indoors "as a precaution," while Britain's foreign office urged citizens "to consider leaving the area." Other nations have urged nationals in Japan to leave the country or head south.

At its worst, radiation in Tokyo has reached 0.809 microsieverts per hour this week, 10 times below what a person would receive if exposed to a dental x-ray. On Thursday and Friday, radiation levels were within average levels.

Tokyo's 13 million residents were warned on Thursday to prepare for a possible large-scale blackout but the government later said there was no need for one. Still, many firms are voluntarily reducing power and trains are reducing services.

(Additional reporting by Linda Sieg, Nathan Layne, Elaine Lies, Leika Kihara and Chris Gallagher; Writing by Jason Szep; Editing by Dean Yates and John Chalmers)


Savajat Erp

Да ли је Црна Гора закључила мир са Јапаном? Ако није досад, сад је одлична прилика да покажу добру вољу. :)
Niste mi verovali da ću da pucam?!
ZAŠTO MI NISTE VEROVALI?!!!!

Meho Krljic

A da ne ispadne da smo samo mi shizofrenični kad su u pitanju obnovljivi izvori energije:

Evropska platforma protiv vetrenjača

QuoteBilo da je reč o Belgiji, Britaniji, Holandiji ili Francuskoj, scenario je uvek isti – tamo gde počnu da niču moderne vetrenjače, lokalno stanovništvo organizuje borbu protiv njihove gradnje


Od našeg stalnog dopisnika

Brisel – Dok svet bez daha iščekuje nove vesti iz Japana gde još traje drama izazvana oštećenjem nuklearke u Fukušimi, a nadležni u Evropskoj uniji preispituju sopstvenu energetsku politiku upotrebe nuklearki, čudno zvuči podatak da u Evropi jača pokret protiv gradnje vetrenjača. Ali ko bi i zašto imao nešto protiv korišćenja vetra za proizvodnju struje?

Odgovor glasi – Evropska platforma protiv izgradnje vetrenjača koja obuhvata 473 udruženja iz 21 države, dobro povezane sa srodnim organizacijama u SAD, Kanadi i Meksiku. U Belgiji najviše udruženja protiv gradnje vetrenjača ima u Valoniji, gde je u 21. veku izgrađeno nekoliko takozvanih – farmi sa vetrenjačama.

Bilo da je reč o Belgiji, Britaniji, Holandiji ili Francuskoj, scenario je uvek isti – tamo gde počnu da niču moderne vetrenjače, lokalno stanovništvo organizuje borbu protiv njihove gradnje. ,,Buka od njihovog okretanja je nesnosna. Vibracije takođe. Njihova blizina koja je ispod zakonskog minimuma umanjila mi je vrednost kuće i imanja za 20 do 30 odsto", objasnio nam je Gido Novelo, profesor u penziji i aktivista u jednom od desetina belgijskih udruženja građana.

Prema belgijskom zakonu razdaljina između vetrenjače i najbliže kuće ne sme da bude manja od 1.500 metara iz zdravstvenih razloga, jer izaziva stres, umor, poremećaj sna i srčane probleme, ali kako tvrde aktivisti iz okoline Namura u Valoniji, tamo su vetrenjače podignute preblizu kućama.

Oni objašnjavaju da njihova zabrinutost za očuvanje okolnog izgleda nije samo nostalgični san, već se pozivaju na Konvenciju o zaštiti pejzaža iz Firence. Jedan od predloga valonskih društava je premeštanje vetrenjača na obalu Severnog mora u Flandriju. Evropska platforma protiv vetrenjača zahteva moratorijum na njihovu gradnju, kao što su ga nedavno proglasile vlasti Južnog Tirola u Italiji, u nameri da očuvaju divan planinski pejzaž.

Stručnjaci u Evropi i SAD istražuju sve negativne uticaje koje vetrenjače mogu da imaju na čoveka, ali kada je reč o pojedinim vrstama ptica selica po njih su posledice često fatalne. Kada jato ptica uleti u polje sa vetrenjačama stotine stradaju od njenih ogromnih metalnih krakova koji se okreću. Svaka vetrenjača je neprijatelj ptica, a neke su sagrađene baš na tradicionalnim koridorima ptica selica, pa se ptičje žrtve broje hiljadama.

Moderne vetrenjače nisu ni nalik romantičnim srednjevekovnim mlinovima, već su to metalne grdosije čiji oštra krila imaju raspon od 45 do 75 metara. Kada ne duva vetar, vetrenjače rade na gas, pa stoga aktivisti tvrde da one zapravo ne smanjuju emisiju ugljen dioksida.

Upravo je smanjenje zagađenja i korišćenje čistih tehnologija jedan od evropskih prioriteta u ovom veku, a u čiste tehnologije ubrajaju se kako vetrenjače, tako i nuklearne elektrane. Logično zvuči da je sada sudbina evropskih nuklearki posle ovih poslednjih događaja u Japanu upitna, ali kakva budućnost očekuje vetrenjače?

Sudeći prema pritužbama lokalnog stanovništva čija se imanja graniče sa farmama vetrenjača, i sve višem stepenu njihove organizovanosti, treba očekivati žestok otpor gradnji novih kompleksa ovih modernih fabrika struje u čitavoj Evropi.

Vladimir Jokanović

objavljeno: 20.03.2011

scallop

Vetrenjače su sjajno rešenje i protivnike organizuju grupe koje imaju interes za svoja postrojenja i izvore. Jednom sam već navodio primer Indijanaca iz okoline Cap Koda (jebote, nisam ni znao da postoje) koji su bili ugroženi za lep pogleda ka istoku jednom godišnje. Drugi problem, ovo se odnosi na SAD, je što vetrenjače ne mogu zakonski da nadzemno isporučuju struju. Razlog je, sa jedne strane, tehnološki, a sa druge strane imućniji ne mogu da voze svoje male avione (kakve ptice?). Praktično, jedina nevolje je što je ova struja dopunskog karaktera, pa, eto, neki proizvođači pribegavaju vrćenju na gas (koji idiotluk!). Problem komšiluka se svodi na alavost i podstrekavanje od strane advokatskih lobija koji u procesima mažnjavaju dopunsku kintu.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

Meho Krljic

Da, deluje kao da tu prste imaju firme koje se bave drugim izvorima energije.

Meho Krljic

Nego:

Око 1.000 Београђана послало поруку охрабрења Јапану



QuoteОко 1.000 Београђана окупило се данас на Тргу републике, у оквиру скупа ,,Београд Јапану", у црвеним и белим мајицама и формирало јапанску заставу, како би заједничком фотографијом послали поруку охрабрења јапанском народу, који је прошле недеље погођен земљотресом и цунамијем.

Срђан Ајваз који је на Фејсбуку оформио групу ,,Love and suport to Japan from serbian people", рекао је Танјугу да ова подршка значи много грађанима Јапана, јер су то људи који веома цене шта други народи мисле и како се понашају према њима.

Он је казао да група сада има око 300 чланова, али да се њихов број повећава из дана у дан, истакавши да је јапанском народу потребна подршка, посебно од Србије која је толико пропатила, као и Јапан.

,,Они цене нашу подршку која је важна за унапређење односа две земље.Последице ће увек остати, као што су последице Хирошиме и Нагасакија, али Јапанци су народ који је спреман на одрицања и борбу", рекао је Ајваз и пожелео да се јапански народ што пре опорави и врати нормалном животу.

Професорка јапанског језика у Филолошкој гимназији Маргарета Саморан, која је на Тргу републике пружала подршку својим ученицима који су по симболичној цени продавали грађанима оригами фигуре, рекла је Танјугу да је новац од продаје намењен јапанском народу.

,,Не очекујем да сакупимо велику своту новца. Ученици су фасцинирани достојанством и прибраношћу јапанског народа, упркос трагедији која их је задесила и пожелели су да им на неки начин помогну", рекла је Саморан.

Она је додала да је очекивала више људи, али је, с обзиром на лоше време, могла да претпостави да се неће појавити велики број људи, колико их је на Фејсбуку обећало, али да је задовољна и овим бројем.

Оперска певачица Уржин Јелић, пореклом из Монголије, истакла је да није задовољна бројем људи који се окупио да би пружио подршку јапанском народу, с обзиром на то колико је влада те земље помогла Србији.

,,Очекивала сам да ће се појавити толико људи да се заустави саобраћај од Трга Славија до Трга републике", рекла је она Танјугу и додала да су Јапанци диван народ који воли свакоме да помогне и да истом мером и њима треба узвратити. Група блогера телевизије Б92 организоваће сутра у 14 сати у Дому омладине скуп ,,1.000 ждралова за Јапан".

Учесници треба да понесу листове папира, иглу и конац, како би заједно направили 1.000 ждралова у оригами техници, јер ће се, према веровању, оном ко направи толики број ждралова испунити жеља.

Поред ове две акције, мобилни оператери ВИП, МТС и Теленор су, на иницијативу групе са друштвене мреже ,,Твитер", отворили СМС број 2001, на који грађани Србије могу да пошаљу поруку подршке Јапану, која кошта 50 динара, а сав новац биће уплаћен Црвеном крсту Јапана.

Танјуг
објављено: 19.03.2011



pokojni Steva

Video sam na snimku da su neki likovi sa tog skupa nosili majce sa japanskom ratnom zastavom. To je tek idiotluk.  xuss
Jelte, jel' i kod vas petnaes' do pola dvanaes'?

varvarin


Meho Krljic

Protiv Srbije se rovari i u Europskom parlamentu:

Оставка због оптужби за мито

Quote,,Сандеј тајмс" оптужио за корупцију словеначког, аустријског и румунског посланика у Европском парламенту


Љубљана – Словеначки посланик у Европском парламенту Зоран Талер поднео је јуче неопозиву оставку на посланички мандат, након оптужби да је умешан у корупцију, преноси Бета.

,,Саопштавам јавности да са данашњим даном дајем неопозиву оставку на место европског посланика", рекао је Талер на конференцији за новинаре у Љубљани.

Он је додао да тим чином жели да омогући да ,,истрага свих чињеница и околности покушаја компромитације тече неоптерећено и без притисака", као и да жели да ,,истина буде обелодањена и да се види ко је деловао законито, а ко незаконито".

Талер је јуче ујутру на своју иницијативу био на састанку словеначке Комисије за борбу против корупције, која је већ успоставила контакт са националним истражним органима, Државним врховним тужилаштвом и надлежним органима Европске уније.

Оставка словеначког посланика у Европском парламенту уследила је након оптужбе изнесене у лондонском недељнику ,,Сандеј тајмс" да је од лобиста руске фирме примио стотину хиљада евра мита да би као посланик улагао амандмане на законе из области банкарства.

Талер је јуче одбацио тврдње да је умешан у незаконите послове и поставио питање зашто је посланик ЕУ мета покушаја компромитације и да ли су за постизање одређених циљева заиста дозвољене све методе, од незаконитог прислушкивања надаље. ,,У складу са својим етичким опредељењима желим да читава истина буде обелодањена", рекао је Талер. Он је додао да ће у складу са британским законима, када цела ствар прође, поступати и према лондонском листу који је објавио оптужбе против њега.

Сада већ бившег словеначког посланика у Европском парламенту ће заменити Марко Голобич, његов наследник према изборним резултатима на изборима за Европски парламент. Талер је био изабран као кандидат партије Социјалних демократа и деловао у групи левице у европском парламенту. ,,Сандеј тајмс" је поред Талера за корупцију оптужио и посланике Аустрије и Румуније у Европском парламенту Ернста Штрасера и Адријана Северина. Штрасер је због притиска аустријске јавности такође дао оставку, иако и он пориче кривицу за примање мита.



U ovoj elektronskoj verziji teksta ne piše (ali u papirnoj i to pominju) da je Taler bio osnivač neformalne grupe Prijatelji Srbije (čiji je član i Severin). Pa vi sad vidite!!

scallop

Šta tu ima da se vidi? Prijatelji Srbije su i prijatelji Rusije. I obratno.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

Meho Krljic

Nego, ja sam poslednjih dana unaokolo hvalio Japan kako oni imaju najuhodanije službe za odgovor na katastrofe itd. Ali ispada da ih dramatično usporava birokratija. Ili to ili podli Ameri lažu:

Japan Aid Effort: Is Government Bureaucracy Slowing Help?

QuoteBy HANNAH BEECH / TOKYO Hannah Beech / Tokyo – Tue Mar 22, 7:45 pm ET
By 9:30 a.m. local time on March 22, the emergency shelter at Saitama Super Arena, just north of Tokyo, had reached its maximum capacity of 500 volunteers. The other 1,500 do-gooders wanting to help the displaced people of Futaba, the town closest to ground zero of the earthquake- and tsunami-damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, were turned away by volunteers holding hand-printed cardboard signs that said "We are sorry, but we cannot take any more volunteers. Please try again tomorrow."

Inside the arena, which normally hosts rock concerts, some 5,000 earthquake, tsunami and nuclear-plant refugees, including those from Futaba, were trying to carve out a normal routine in their makeshift homes, composed of squares of blankets and mats. There to help them were the volunteers, who handed out free bananas, blankets, diapers, toys and other necessities for people who escaped with little more than the clothes on their backs. Some volunteers held signs presenting complimentary day-care services, while others offered free shampoos, blow-dries and shaves at local beauty parlors. "It's the least I can do," said Hideyuki Tanaka, a stylist with dyed blond hair who held a sign offering free salon services. "I don't have any other skills except for this, so I thought I could make this small contribution." By noon, some 60 evacuees had taken advantage of free services at his Maggie Friends beauty salon. (See TIME's exclusive pictures of the devastation in Japan.)

The Saitama emergency shelter is a model of organization and goodwill, with masking-tape arrows pointing the way to the bath, food and clothing lines. Bowing, smiling volunteers shepherd dazed-looking evacuees from one line to another. But in northeastern Japan, where an estimated 21,000 are dead or missing and another 350,000 are homeless as of March 22, the country's labyrinthine bureaucracy has seriously hampered efforts to deliver aid. Some shelters still have no heat, while others are rationing rice balls. In a country that prides itself on efficiency, the fact that 11 days after the earthquake, displaced people are still hungry and, even if they have cars, cannot get food because of a shortage of fuel is a shocking turn of events. The aid bottlenecks are all the more surprising given that most Japanese anticipated that their government would respond quickly. "There are very high expectations of the government here, and civil society is struggling to find its place," says Randy Martin, director of global emergency operations for Mercy Corps, a U.S.-based NGO. "The most important thing is to get the supply chain going again."

In other natural disasters that I've covered, steady streams of local and international aid have usually converged upon the stricken area within four days of the event. This has happened even in developing-world countries with far less infrastructure than Japan has. But in Tohoku, as Japan's northeast is called, aid has trickled in agonizingly slowly, despite the mobilization of 100,000 Japanese soldiers for the relief effort. It took more than a week after the earthquake, for example, for the region's highways, which are reserved for emergency vehicles, to be filled with the kind of aid convoys that typically race to disaster scenes. (See Japan's history of massive earthquakes.)

One major bottleneck has been Japan's fondness for red tape. "In special times, you have to do things in a special way," says Kensuke Kobayashi, an IBM employee in Tokyo who has tried to organize relief efforts to Tohoku from the Japanese capital. "But in Japan, there is a legal wall that stops everything." Japanese shipping company NYK offered to provide a container ship for helicopters to land on when ferrying in relief supplies to coastal areas. But the government rejected the offer because the NYK shipmates lacked the proper licenses to help with such work. After some wrangling, volunteer foreign doctors were told that because they didn't have Japanese medical licenses, they could conduct only the "minimum necessary medical procedures" in the disaster zone.

Some medicine donations from overseas haven't reached the many elderly suffering in the earthquake's aftermath because Japanese regulatory agencies have not yet given the drugs approval. Local logistics companies have complained - off the record, for fear of angering the bureaucrats whom they depend on for future licensing - of days-long waits for permission from the central government to deliver donated goods. Only when their trucks get the magic pass can they start moving toward Tohoku. Until then, the boxes of relief goods, some of which were donated just hours after the earthquake and tsunami hit, sit in Tokyo warehouses.

See how to help Japan's earthquake and tsunami victims.

See TIME's complete coverage of the Japan earthquake.


Then there's fuel, which is in plentiful supply in southern Japan but all but impossible to procure easily in the north without special permits. To get even a 2.6 gal. (10 L) ration, cars in Tohoku often have to wait for half a day. When TIME wanted to accompany an NGO helicopter delivering aid to one stricken area, we were given permission on one condition: that TIME hire a car to drive the aid supplies to the airfield. The NGO's cars were out of gas and had no way to get the relief goods to the chopper. Such shortages have been repeated writ large, hampering even the efforts of major organizations like the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies, which was one of the first groups on the scene.

There have been some extenuating circumstances. The radiation leaking from the Fukushima plant has meant that aid vehicles have to take a wide berth around a region contaminated by higher-than-normal radiation levels. Nevertheless, there are other ways to Tohoku. Indeed, one of the first organizations to start relief convoys in the northeast was none other than the yakuza, Japan's famous gangsters. Unconstrained by reams of regulations, the underworld representatives, whose business tentacles extend to the trucking business, simply started delivering aid on their own, without government approval. (See pictures of objects found in the rubble of Japan's quake.)

Citizen volunteers have been actively discouraged by the government from jumping into their cars and delivering aid themselves. That's because after the 1995 Kobe earthquake, roads into the area were jam-packed with well-meaning citizens whose endeavors hindered larger aid efforts. But there's a fine balance to be struck between not overwhelming damaged infrastructure and leaving it worryingly underutilized. And while U.S. military aid sorties conducted from American bases in Japan have been accepted by the Japanese government, other international organizations have been quietly told they're not needed - a stunning response given the magnitude of the disaster. "Everything has to go through government emergency centers," says one international NGO representative in Tokyo. "But they're very slow to respond and can't keep up with the flow of aid. They should let us get in there and start getting relief to people instead of worrying about paperwork." (Comment on this story.)

Meanwhile, back at Saitama Super Arena, Kouhei Nagatsuka, 18, ponders the strange fact that he just graduated from high school without a proper ceremony in Futaba, the town next to where the Fukushima plant is located. On March 11, the earthquake destroyed his home - or so he has heard from a friend who went back to the ravaged town to take a look. Nagatsuka and his family were first herded into an emergency shelter for earthquake and tsunami victims. Then, just as they were contemplating trying to salvage what they could from their home, a Fukushima reactor began spewing radioactive material into the air. Four days ago, they arrived as nuclear-plant refugees to Saitama. (See more pictures of the aftermath of Japan's earthquake.)

As Nagatsuka scrounged for warm clothes for his four siblings in a heap of donated goods, news that steam and smoke were again pouring from two of the plant's damaged reactors spread among the displaced Futaba residents. (By Tuesday evening, plant engineers said they had laid power cables to all six of the facility's nuclear reactors, though it's not clear whether the electricity can be turned on or whether pumps needed to cool down overheating reactors will work.) Already, reports of vegetables, water and milk tainted by small levels of radiation from the leaking nuclear plant have raised concerns about the accident's long-term effects - even if engineers are able to tame the reactors in the coming days and weeks. "I'm afraid I'll never be able to go back there," says Nagatsuka, who spent time volunteering when he was in high school. "I was supposed to start my adult life, but I guess I'll have to do that someplace else."

Hmmmm... Za svaki slučaj, možda bi bilo dobro da NATO i ovde uleti sa jednom intervencijom, da zaštiti civile od njihovih vlasti koje ih očigledno maćehinski tretiraju...

scallop

Meho, problem je što je u današnjem svetu podvaljivanje legitimno. Dalje, medijska dezinformatika ima zvezdane trenutke - možeš podvaljivati bilo šta, uvek će neko raspačati linkove naokolo. Kratki krici svesti zagušeni su pozadinskom bukom. Sve teže iznad gradova vidiš zvezde, u ovom svetu istina je ispod nivoa legitimnosti. Japan nije izuzetak. Ko je rekao da bušido važi i za biznis?

Na primer, u vreme Černobila, dok je TV tutnjao o radioaktivnosti povrća, a seljaci na pijaci plakali, ja sam sa kolegom iz instituta Vinča "nakupovao" gomilu skoro džaba spanaća i mladog luka. Stručnjaci na TV su uživali u sopstvenom izgledu na ekranu i niko nije poručio gledaocima da se primarna radioaktivnost da oprati pod česmom. A svi peremo povrće, zar ne? Godinu dana kasnije, kad je ta radioaktivnost, isisana iz zemlje, dospela u srž povrća niko tome nije dao značaja. Jebiga, u dezinformaciji nije važno što neko zna, važno je da mase ne znaju.

I sad, treba da čitam linkove? Tu i tamo čak i mene zaglupljuju. Kako li je drugima?
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

Stipan

Drugima (čitaj Stipanu) je sve to potpuno konfuzno, Scallope.

Meho Krljic

 :lol: I Još je konfuznije kad Skalop povezuje anegdote koje ilustruju njegove teze sa tekstom koji se samo tangencijalno bavi istom temom.

Ali ništa zato!!!! Japan je udario novi zemljotres od šest stepeni na Rihterovoj skali, tako da mi je to uspešno odvuklo pažnju:

Japan pogodio zemljotres jačine šest stepeni

QuoteTanjug | 23. 03. 2011. - 07:56h | Komentara: 3

Zemljotres jačine 6 stepeni Rihterove skale uzdrmao je jutros severoistočni deo Japana gde se japanske vlasti bore da zauzdaju oštećenu nuklearnu elektranu, javila su agencije.

Za sada nema izveštaja da li je najnoviji zemljotres izazvao štetu i ljudske žrtve, ali nije izdato upozorenje za cunami.


Kompanija "Tokio iliktrik pauer" koja upravlja oštećenom nuklearkom Fukušima Daići, navela je da nije primila izveštaje da je najnoviji zemljotres oštetio ugroženo postrojenje.


scallop

Razlika je što moje teze imaju veze, a tvoje - linkove. xrofl xrofl xrofl
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.


Cornelius

Quote from: scallop on 23-03-2011, 09:39:47
Meho, problem je što je u današnjem svetu podvaljivanje legitimno.

Apsolutno tačno. Na primer, u Japanu su svi industrijalci vezani za nuklearni biznis, svi državni kontrolori i svi zakonodavci, znali da su njihove nuklearke napunile 40 godina i da je neophodno remontovati ih i menjati skoro sve. Kako su u pitanju ogromni novci, oni su rešili da ćute i da teraju dokle se može, pa kako im bude. E, sad smo videli šta se desilo.

Naravno, ne zaboravimo da će svi ti isti koji su u Japanu lažirali, podvaljivali, krali i otimali kroz atomski biznis, posle katastrofe, opet da se nadju na čelu nuklearnog biznisa. Još da se prirododa na sve to da je omerta u čitavom svetu i da milijarderi svih zemalja štite jedan drugog, jer njihovi umreženi biznisi ne trpe nikakve poremećaje. Poremećaji vode ka smanjivanju profita, a to je neprihvatljivo. Zato se žrtvuje običan narod da crkava ili da ulazi u nuklearke i da zavrće gvintove i umre od raka. Oni što su do ovoga doveli, sede na sigurnom i broje pare, čekajući da sve ponovo krene.
Je n'ai aucune confiance dans la justice, même si cette justice est faite par moi.

Meho Krljic

Jeste.

Mada moj post nije pričao o tome. Ali dobro, valjda je to deo neke šire teme.