World today (Ni Srbija ni zemlje u okruženju)

[Gaff]

London Street Battles: Video of mad clashes, riots out of control

London Ruins: Aerial video of riot 'warzone' cleanup, homes destroyed

[SIMERIJANAC]

The Rioting Underclass: Product of a Diseased Culture

Pressure from above, pressure from below; It's about eviscerating the middle class by manipulating them to demand their own enslavement

Paul Joseph Watson

Tuesday, August 9, 2011

The riots that have gripped London and swept other major cities in the UK are the product of a diseased culture that leads to violence and mayhem which ultimately only serves to benefit the ruling elite in its bid to eviscerate the middle class by manipulating them to demand their own enslavement.
Firstly, anyone who truly believes that the rioters are burning and looting to protest any legitimate grievances, at least ones that they are consciously aware of, needs their head examining.
A BBC video clip features audio of a group of drunk teenage girls describing how fun it is to engage in wanton violence and thieving. In a transparent and moronic attempt to justify their actions, the girls begin babbling about "the government....conservatives or whatever....I don't know," before responding to a question about why they are attacking local residents of their own community by snorting, "It's the rich people, the people that have got businesses and that's why all of this happened because of rich people."
Those "rich people" include a local family-owned furniture store in Croydon that survived two world wars yet has now been burned to the ground, a charity shop that raises revenue for the elderly, and a cat rescue center based in Enfield, amongst scores of other homes, charities and small businesses owned by innocent and far from "rich" people.
To claim that these disaffected youths are the vanguard of some organic revolutionary movement is completely asinine. If this is a genuine backlash against the establishment, why are the mobs not congregating around Downing Street, the Houses of Parliament or Buckingham Palace, the real culprits of Britain's economic degradation. Why instead are they busy filling trolleys full of tennis shoes, mobile phones, along with plentiful supplies of booze and cigarettes from tiny local off-licenses?
The rioters are composed predominantly of nihilistic, aggressive, vapid and intellectually castrated youths that have come to represent the very term "broken Britain".
This is like a bad zombie movie – it's the rise of the idiots. The plague started in Tottenham. It rapidly spread to other areas of London, and soon the hordes were rampaging around major cities nationwide. But these zombies weren't scavenging for brains, they were in search of JD Sports chav-wear, 40 inch TVs and iPads. The police stood by and watched. The petrified public welcomed troops on the streets, curfews, more surveillance and control with open arms. Thanks a lot, idiots.
The cause of this mayhem cannot be traced to any legitimate political grievance, it is almost entirely the product of a diseased culture, fostered by multinational corporations and the celebrity-obsessed entertainment industry, that brainwashes young people to aspire to lifestyles they can never possibly attain.
The social decline of young people becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy as a result of constant media fascination with demonizing youngsters and presenting them with a putrid diet of "heroes," vacuous footballers and drug-addled musicians, whose behavior makes impressionable kids think that life revolves around being constantly trashed, engaging in amoral sexual conquests and proving their manhood by pointless displays of animal-like aggression.
MTV-manufactured rap icons, movies and video games have trained an entire generation of disadvantaged kids to grow up as wannabe gangsters, marauding around town with their jeans half-way down their thighs in huge mobs intimidating the public. Rampant consumerism is also to blame. Deprived kids on benefits cannot afford the iPods and laptops they are told they must own to be accepted by their peers, so an opportunity like this cannot be wasted. As the Guardian reports today, "Where we used to be defined by what we did, now we are defined by what we buy. These big stores are in the business of tempting [the consumer] and then suddenly these people find they can just walk into the shop and have it all."
This army of Clockwork Orange-style droogs are then played off against the general public who, suitably terrified by the media's incessant hyping of the problem, openly welcome troops on the streets, more surveillance, curfews and whatever else is necessary 'just to keep us safe'.
But if the last few nights have proven nothing else, they have proven that the police and the authorities cannot keep us safe. Almost every eyewitness who described the violence and looting said the police sat back and did nothing.
The establishment only benefits from allowing the chaos to spread because the call from the public for a more brutal response gets louder and louder. Now Parliament has been recalled for one day to ensure the opportunity to pass more draconian legislation that will only impact law-abiding people is not passed up.
This is how the middle class is habitually manipulated to support the very police state that is ultimately used to oppress the middle class itself. It's also a perfect example of pressure from below – the cultural cultivation of an underclass of yobs who are let loose by the system to generate the crisis it needs to clamp down with an iron fist.
We all need to wake up and realize we are being played off against each other by an establishment that craves the kind of pointless rioting we have seen over the last three nights, because it creates the perfect pretext for the establishment to entrench and expand its power in the name of safety and security.

[džin tonik]

"...
This is how the middle class is habitually manipulated to support the very police state that is ultimately used to oppress the middle class itself. ..."

dream on. there is no middle class in engshitland.

[marlowe]

Gradonačelnik Londona teška seljačina.

[дејан]

[Karl Rosman]

 

[Meho Krljic]

Sinoć slušam Kamerona kako preti "Naći ćemo vas, optužićemo vas, kaznit ćemo vas" a BBC World News prikazuje slike kako murija upada u paviljone i hapsi omladinu. Nekako posle toga naše vlasti ne deluju previše kretenski... U svakom slučaju, mladi u Londonu tvrde da su ovo radili zbog perspektivnosti. "Ne pljačkamo iz zabave nego jer nam treba novac da bismo preživeli". Treći svet je svuda isti:

Exclusive: Teen Gang Reveals Looting Spree

(Naravno, ovo je Sky news pa treba unapred napraviti korekciju na žutinu. Na primer naslov spominje "geng" iako sagovornici u tekstu insistiraju da NISU u bandi itd.)

..Four teenagers who looted in neighbourhoods across London have told Sky News it was like a 'shopping spree'.

Speaking on condition of anonymity the group admitted that they stole iPads, Blackberry tablets, games consoles, laptops, clothes, trainers and even nappies and clothes for their children.

They claim that they used a transit van to move between different boroughs and grabbed so many different items that the van was filled several times and emptied between their sprees.

The young men, all aged 16 or 17, told Sky that they are not part of an organised gang but just disillusioned young men who cannot find work.


One 16-year-old said: "Everything we wanted we could get.

"I couldn't believe the van could hold so much stuff."

They admitted that they spent two nights looting in their home borough of Lewisham but also went to Catford, Bromley and Clapham.

A 17-year-old admitted that his stop in Clapham Junction was solely to target a store where he had been refused work.


He said: "It was Comet - they didn't reply to me emailing my CV, or going up there so this was payback man, payback."

The teens told Sky News that their parents were unaware of their involvement, one even said he had been warned by his parents to stay in his bedroom but jumped out of his window to join in the looting.

They claim to have hidden their haul at homes of friends or had already sold goods onto the black market.

One said he had sold a Blackberry tablet for £400 on the Gumtree website.


Another, wearing a pair of Nike trainers that he had stolen, said: "Right now it looks like there isn't a future for young people, that's how I see it."

He added: "We are not doing it for the fun of it, we are doing it for money to survive."

None of the group was concerned about the unprecedented police efforts to catch those responsible.

They said they believed that because there were so many people looting that their chances of not getting caught were "quite good."


The Metropolitan Police have already arrested over a thousand people across the capital and have vowed that there will be many more as they trawl through CCTV and other evidence.

The teenagers, speaking on the banks of the Thames opposite the financial centre of Canary Wharf, said they believe inequality is part of the problem.

Referring to wealthy bankers and businessmen one said: "They are only interested in one pocket, not ours, the pocket over there."


All insisted they have been doing voluntary work while applying for jobs but often their job applications are not even acknowledged.

One teenager appealed for the Government to help them and said: "They say are going to help us but I don't see any of it, there has to be more opportunities and jobs."

"Help us at least and then maybe everyone will settle down."
...

Evo i prigodnog saundtraka

The Bug & Tippa Irie - Angry - 01

[Father Jape]

Odlican prilog Skaja:

UK Riots 2011: Sheldon Thomas (Target Against Gangs) / Gavin McKenna (Ex-Gang Member)

[Josephine]

U, odlični sagovornici.

Meni je zanimljiv nesporazum i u verbalnoj i u neverbalnoj komunikaciji u ovom prilogu.

Nevrbalni nivo u potpunosti oslikava verbalno, najpre u razlici u akcentima, gde gosti govore iskvarenim, žargonskim engleskim, a voditeljka ne. Ona je predstavnica srednje više klase, i njena pitanja prvenstveno se odnose na strah i šok građana, tugu i bes onih kojima je opljačkana imovina u neredima.

Ona priznaje patnju dece koja divljaju ulicama Londona, ali se njen stav (i verovatno stav ljudi njoj bliskih po standardu i mentalitetu) u potpunosti odaje u rečenici u kojoj priča o zastrašenim građanima i ljudima koji jesu teško radili da postignu to što imaju, da bi im sve to bilo razneto u neredima.

U toj rečenici leži čitav nesporazum između dve suprotstavljene strane. Bogatijima nije jasno da se siromašnima ni ne pruža šansa za težak rad, ne pruža im se šansa za rad uopšte. Dok ih bogatiji smatraju lenjima, onima kojima je lakše da kradu (što se vidi po upornom gang epitetu koji pridaju učesnicima u neredima), siromašni, zapravo, nemaju odakle da počnu, da bi uopšte nešto stekli teškim radom.

I dok je ovog nesporazuma i nerazumevanja, trajaće i neredi.

Onaj koji ima, retko kad razume kako je onom koji nema.

Vlast u Britaniji dobro je krila stopu siromaštva, izgleda. Sada je sirotinja dostigla kritičnu masu.

[Father Jape]

Nevrbalni nivo u potpunosti oslikava verbalno, najpre u razlici u akcentima, gde gosti govore iskvarenim, žargonskim engleskim,

Ne postoji takva stvar kao sto je iskvaren jezik, pa samim tim ni iskvaren engleski.

Ali da, razlika u govoru je vise nego primetna. Posebno je bar meni interesantna razlika izmedju jednog i drugog gosta.

Bivsi gang member ima pored jakog MLE akcenta i govor pun nestandarnih oblika, kolokvijalnih postapalica, i losu dikciju. Drugim recima on se voditeljki obraca maltene kao svom ortaku iz kraja.

S druge strane, za ovog Sheldona Thomasa je jasno da je naviknut da govori u javnosti. Ima dobru dikciju, sluzi se gotovo iskljucivo standardnim engleskim, ali naravno akcenat ostaje neizbezno tu, kao badge of pride. To je ko je on i odakle dolazi.



EDIT: A da, sa ostatkom posta se u principu slazem.  

Interesantno je da, iako je Blerova vlada nacelno naginjala vise ka levici od torijevskih pre nje i sad, razlike u bogatstvu onih na vrhu drustvene lestvice i onih na dnu su se za tih desetak godine jos dalje povecale. Procesi koji su zapoceli za vreme Tacericinih 80ih su se tokom sledece dve decenije samo nastavili. Manji deo stanovnistva drzi veci deo ukupnog bogatstva. U tom pogledu je danasnja Britanija slicnija Americi u odnosu na onu Britaniju iz 1991. recimo.

[mac]

Onaj koji ima, retko kad razume kako je onom koji nema.

Sit gladnom ne veruje.

[Gaff]

Speech by Brave Hackney Woman Against London Rioters/ Looters [SUBTITLED]

[džin tonik]

Onaj koji ima, retko kad razume kako je onom koji nema.

Sit gladnom ne veruje.

ko uci znace, ko stedi imace.

[Father Jape]

Manchester Riots 2011: scenes from Whalley Range

[džin tonik]

dalston: stotinjak pljackasa doslo u cetvrt razbijati. zavrsili u zamci nekoliko stotinjak turaka naoruzanih palicama i lancima koji navalise na njih. vecina se razbjezala, ostali tesko prebijeni.
ta engleska je stvarno, stvarno bolesna.

[Josephine]

ko uci znace, ko stedi imace.

Jok.

Dođi da živiš u Srbiji gde ti obrazovanje ne garantuje znanje, a da uštediš ne možeš.

[Hobit]

ko uci znace, ko stedi imace.

Jok.

Dođi da živiš u Srbiji gde ti obrazovanje ne garantuje znanje, a da uštediš ne možeš.

Ma nemoj!
Nije tačno ni jedno ni drugo
I ne pali zoska bez veze... kakav je blesav - još će i da dođe...

[Josephine]

Pardon. Možeš da uštediš. Od ugrađivanja u državne poslove, švercovanja, primanja mita i krađe.

[pokojni Steva]

A i karijes je hroničan, mater mu...

[Stipan]

Uporno driftuje sa severnjačke strane.

[pokojni Steva]

Prvi UK 'korisnik' socijalnog smeštaja izbačen iz stana zato što mu je sin uhapšen na demonstracijam (ukucati Wandsworth Court eviction notice)

Sledeći verovatni korak je spaljivanje čitavog kvarta odakle je izgrednik.

[Lord Kufer]

Dobri, poslušni i vredni robovi najviše mrze loše, neposlušne i lenje robove.

[cutter]

Kad Jape neće da okači svog mancrusha moram ja...

http://www.russellbrand.tv/2011/08/big-brother-isnt-watching-you/
Big Brother isn't watching you
August 11th, 2011

I no longer live in London. I've been transplanted to Los Angeles by a combination of love and money; such good fortune and opportunity, in both cases, you might think disqualify me from commenting on matters in my homeland. Even the results of Britain's Got Ice-Factor may lay prettily glistening beyond my remit now that I am self banished.

To be honest when I lived in England I didn't really care too much for the fabricated theatrics of reality TV. Except when I worked for Big Brother, then it was my job to slosh about in the amplified trivia of the housemates/inmates. Sometimes it was actually quite bloody interesting. Particularly the year that "Nadia" won. She was the Portuguese transsexual. Remember? No? Well, that's the nature of the medium; as it whizzes past the eyes it seems very relevant but the malady of reality TV stars is that their shelf life, expires, like dog years, by the power of seven. To me it seems like Nadia's triumph took place during the Silver Jubilee, we had a street party.

Early in that series there was an incident of excitement and high tension. The testosteronal, alpha figures of the house – a Scot called Jason and a Londoner called Victor incited by the teasing conditions and a camp lad called Marcus (wow, it's all coming back) kicked off in the house, smashed some crockery and a few doors. Police were called, tapes were edited and the carnival rolled on. When I was warned to be discrete on-air about the extent of the violence I quoted a British WW1 general who reflecting on the inability of his returning troops to adapt to civilian life said "You cannot rouse the animal in man then expect it to be put aside at a moments notice."
"Yeah, that's exactly the kind of thing we want you to say the opposite of" said the channel's representative.

This week's riots are sad and frightening and if I have by virtue of my temporary displacement forgone the right to speak about the behaviour of my countrymen then this is gonna be irksome, I mean even David Cameron came back from his holiday. Eventually. The Tuscan truffles lost their succulence when the breaking glass became too loud to ignore. Then dopey ol' Boris came cycling back into the London clutter with his spun gold hair and his spun shit logic as it became apparent that the holiday was over.

In fact it isn't my absence from the territory of London that bothers me it's my absence from the economic class that are being affected that itches in my gut because as I looked at the online incident maps the boroughs that were suffering all, for me, had some resonance. I've lived in Dalston, Hackney, Elephant, Camden and Bethnal Green. I grew up round Dagenham and Romford and whilst I could never claim to be from the demographic most obviously affected I feel guilty that I'm not there now.

I feel proud to be English, proud to be a Londoner (alright an Essex boy) never more so than since being in exile and I naturally began to wonder what would make young people destroy their communities.

I have spoken to mates in London and Manchester and they sound genuinely frightened and hopeless and the details of their stories place this outbreak beyond the realms of any political idealism or rationalisation. But I can't, from my ivory tower in the Hollywood Hills, compete with the understandable yet futile rhetoric, describing the rioters as mindless. Nor do I want to dwell on the sadness of our beautiful cities being tarnished and people's shops and livelihoods, sometimes generations old, being immolated. The tragic and inevitable deaths ought be left for eulogies and grieving. Tariq Jahal has spoken so eloquently from his position of painful proximity, with such compassion that nearly all else is redundant.

The only question I can legitimately ask is; why is this happening? Mark Duggan's death has been badly handled but no one is contesting that is a reason for these conflagrations beyond the initial flash of activity in Tottenham. I've heard Theresa May and the Old Etonians whose hols have been curtailed (many would say they're the real victims) saying the behaviour is "unjustifiable" and "unacceptable". Wow! Thanks guys! What a wonderful use of the planet's fast depleting oxygen resources, now that's been dealt with can we move onto more taxing matters like whether or not Jack The Ripper was a ladies man? And what the hell do bears get up to in those woods?

However "unacceptable" and "unjustifiable" it might be, it has happened so we better accept it and whilst we can't justify it we should kick around a few neurons and work out why so many people feel utterly disconnected from the cities they live in.

Unless on the news tomorrow it's revealed that there's been a freaky "criminal creating" chemical leak in London AND Manchester AND Liverpool AND Birmingham that's causing young people to spontaneously and simultaneously violate their environments – in which case we can park the ol' brainboxes, stop worrying and get on with the football season, but, if as I suspect, there hasn't, we have, as Human Beings, got a few things to consider together.

I should here admit that I have been arrested for criminal damage for my part in anti capitalist protest earlier in this decade. I often attended protests and then, in my early twenties, and on drugs, I enjoyed it when the protests lost direction and became chaotic, hostile even. I was intrigued by the anarchist "Black-Block", hooded and masked, as in retrospect, was their agenda but was more viscerally affected by the football "casuals" who'd turn up because the veneer of the protest's idealistic objective gave them the perfect opportunity to wreck stuff and have a row with the Old Bill.
Big Brother isn't watching you

That was never my cup of tea though. For one thing policeman are generally pretty good fighters and secondly it registered that the accent they shouted at me with was closer to my own than that of some of those singing about the red flag making the wall of plastic shields between us seem thinner.

I found those protests exciting, yes because I was young and a bit of a twerp but also, I suppose, because there was a void in me. A lack of direction, a sense that I was not invested in the dominant culture, that Government existed not to look after the interests of the people it was elected to represent but the big businesses that they were in bed with.

I felt that, and I had a Mum that loved me, a Dad that told me that nothing was beyond my reach, an education, a grant from Essex council (to train as an actor of all things!!!) AND several charities that gave me money for maintenance. I shudder to think how disenfranchised I would have felt if I had been deprived of that long list of privileges.

That state of deprivation though, is of course, the condition that many of those rioting endure as their unbending reality. No education, a weakened family unit, no money and no way of getting any. JD Sports is probably easier to desecrate if you can't afford what's in there and the few poorly paid jobs there are taken. Amidst the bleakness of this social landscape, squinting all the while in the glare of a culture that radiates ultra-violet consumerism and infra-red celebrity. That daily, hourly, incessantly enforces the egregious, deceitful message that you are what you wear, what you drive, what you watch and what you watch it on, in livid, neon pixels. The only light in their lives comes from these luminous corporate messages. No wonder they have their fucking hoods up.

I remember David Cameron saying "hug a hoodie" but I haven't seen him doing it, why would he? Hoodies don't vote, they've realised it's pointless, that whoever gets elected will just be a different shade of the "we don't give a toss about you party."

Politicians don't represent the interests of people that don't vote. They barely care about the people who do vote. They look after the corporations who get them elected. Cameron only spoke out against News International when it became evident to us, US, the people, not to him, (like Rose West, "He must've known") that the Newspapers Murdoch controlled were happy to desecrate the dead in the pursuit of another exploitative, distracting story.

Why am I surprised that these young people behave destructively, "mindlessly", motivated only by self-interest? How should we describe the actions of the city bankers that brought our economy to it's knees in 2010? Altruistic? mindful? Kind? But then again, they do wear suits, so they deserve to be bailed out, perhaps that's why not one of them has been imprisoned. And they got away with a lot more than a few fucking pairs of trainers.

These young people have no sense of community because they haven't been given one. They have no stake in society because Cameron's mentor Margaret Thatcher told us there's no such thing.

If we don't want our young people to tear apart our communities then don't let people in power tear apart the values that hold our communities together.

As you have by now surely noticed, I don't know enough about politics to ponder a solution and my hands are sticky with blood money from representing corporate interests through film, television and commercials, venerating, through my endorsements and celebrity, products and a lifestyle that contributes to the alienation of an increasingly dissatisfied underclass. But I know, as we all intuitively know that the solution is all around us and it isn't political, it is spiritual. Gandhi said "Be the change you want to see in the world."

In this simple sentiment we can find hope, as we can in the efforts of those cleaning up the debris and ash in bonhomous, broom-wielding posse's. If we want to live in a society where people feel included, we must include them, where they feel represented, we must represent them and where they feel love and compassion for their communities then we, the members of that community, must find love and compassion for them.

As we sweep away the mistakes made in the selfish, nocturnal darkness we must ensure that amidst the broken glass and sadness we don't sweep away the youth lost amongst the shards in the shadows cast by the new dawn.

Tags: riots

Tags: riots
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[Father Jape]

Mancrusha?! Ali meni je Brand bio i odbojan, ili makar sasvim nezanimljiv, sve do onog klipa. 
Od tad mogu da mu pruzim neku umerenu dozu postovanja. -_-

[Josephine]

Dobri, poslušni i vredni robovi najviše mrze loše, neposlušne i lenje robove.

Znam, Lorde, da se gnušate potrošačkog društva i kapitalizma, i pitam se: od čega vi živite? Da li ste ikada pokušali da se zaposlite?

Ako niste, nikada vam neće biti jasno koliko beznadežnost i nepostojanje prespektive može da ubije čoveka u pojam i da mu izaziva bes kakav je teško kontrolisati.

[Lord Kufer]

Sva beda i zlo svojstveni su životu. izgovor da treba živeti proizvodi sve to zlo.
Kolko ja znam, mi svi MORAMO da umremo.
Treba shvatiti da su države nastale tako što se ološ udružio i naoružao i naterao ljude da rade i služe toj idiotskoj ideji. The rest is HISTORY. Treba stalno sebe lagati da je to dobra stvar, tra la la la la. Osuđivati one koji se pobune i uživljavati se u ropsko nadanje da ćemo biti pošteđeni.

Dosta sam ja radio i dobro znam koliko sam malo koristi i više štete imao, a neko drugi se grdno ofajdio od mog rada. A sad kad ne radim, ološ koji rinta kao magare me prezire. No, taj prezir je naučen u školi za robove. Neka bude tako. Ja žu se držati podalje.

[Savajat Erp]

То је био манифесто матричног куфера...у следећој епизоди: теорије о сврси живота - научно утемељени погледи или безпотребно теоретисање у недоглед? Будите са нама и следеће суботе. Лаку ноћ!

[Lord Kufer]

Automatsko poricanje je deo ropskog treninga.

Perspektiva je takođe deo ropskog treninga. Perspektiva = nada! Pa se tako robovi nadaju boljem, a kad neko pokuša da mu bolje bude odmah, onda je on terorista, lenčuga, itd.

A to što besperspektivnost loše utiče na ljude, to je takođe deo ropskog treninga. To sedešava obespravljenim robovima koji bi želeli da budu malo bolje plaćeni robovi.
Inače, besperspektivnost je neophodna onome koji hoće da bude živ sada, a ne u nekoj projektovanoj budućnosti koja se nikada neće dogoditi.

A što se tiče svrhe života, svrha je da se održi ideja života, a oni koji služe toj ideji samo se rađaju i umiru.

[Josephine]

I ovom poslednjom rečenicom pobili ste sve što ste rekli u prethodna dva posta.

Da bi se održala ideja života, da bi se ljudi rađali i umirali, oni moraju da jedu. Da bi jeli, moraju da rade. U početku su morali da skupljaju plodove i love. I ratovali su za plodnu teritoriju. U pitanju je impuls, instinkt, nagon za samoodržanjem, egoizam, ne trening.
Da ne govorim o ljudima koji prehranjuju porodice, osećanju odgovornosti i brige za nju.

Mada, slažem se da treninga svesti ima u potrošačkom društvu, ali ga ne bih širila do nivoa do kog ga širite vi.

[Lord Kufer]

Ogroman je broj zločina počinjenih da bi se prehranila porodica.

[angel011]

Pa, super je ako možeš da preživiš a da ne radiš - i da nikome ne budeš na grbači (to jest, ne preživljavaš tako što neko drugi rinta da bi ti imao šta da jedeš).

[Lord Kufer]

Da vidimo kako neki "rintaju". Koliko košta proizvodnja jedne paklice malbora koji u prodaji staje 170 dinara?

A laganje, krađa, korupcija, ubistva? To nije društveni proizvod? Smatra se izuzetkom, jelda?
Samo vi koji rintačite verujte da ste plaćeni "po zasluzi". Baš se radujem vašoj sreći.

[Josephine]

Ja uopšte ne verujem da sam plaćena po zasluzi. Trudim se da ne lažem, ne kradem i ne ubijam. Trudim se i da ne podstičem i podržavam te pojave.

I imam tri izbora: jedan je da radim, izdržavam sebe i ne budem nikome na grbači, što kaže Anđela; drugi je da ne radim (to, možda, i silom prilika, zbog krize; a mogu i da odlučim da budem lenja) i budem nekome na grbači; a treći je da umrem od gladi i da za gladnog života ne budem nikome na grbači, što će me automatski postaviti na grbaču onima koji treba da plate moju sahranu/kremaciju.

Ne razumem za šta vi ovde optužujete ljude koji rade? I pri tom mislim na svaku vrstu rada, pa i kulturnu, umetničku...

[Savajat Erp]

А можеш и да се удаш за напуцаног фудбалера! Немој искључити ту могућност.

[Josephine]

Teško. No, nikad se ne zna. Ljubav ne poznaje granice!!!

[Lord Kufer]

A ja se trudim da me niko ne eksploatiše. Međutim, činjenica je da se jedan život hrani drugim životom. Glupo je idealizovati život, kad je on sam u sebi zlo.

Ako treba da budem rob da bih preživeo, tome ću se svakako suprotstaviti.

Nažalost, u svetu preovlađuju oni koji su izabrali tu opciju i zbog toga se zlo priširilo svetom, a najviše zbog toga što su robovi naučeni da trpe i veličaju sebe zbog toga što toliko mogu da istrpe a da ne budu "zli".

Radnički bataljon je junački izginuo na Kadinjači kako bi drug Tito izvukao dupe. I svi ponosni na te budale.

Da nema onih koji žele da budu robovi ne bi nikad ni bilo ropstva i sveg zla koje je proisteklo iz toga - čitava istorija. Istorija nasilja, istorija patnje - ali, to je  - život. Šta ćeš, mora se.

[Josephine]

Glupo je idealizovati život, kad je on sam u sebi zlo.

A zašto ste vi onda još uvek živi?

[Lord Kufer]

Mnogo glupo pitanje. Život je dešavanje koje je naše iskustvo. Život nismo mi. Oni koji se identifikuju s životom prinuđeni su da slede "zakone opstanka".

Karl Marks, Lenjin i ostali pajaci, idealizovali su radničku klasu, načinili od nje herojsku žrtvu, a to je ustvari najgori soj. To su oni koji zure u televizor i gledaju reality show želeći zlo učesnicima, koji ni sami nisu ništa bolji. A onda, kad izbije rat, baš ti mediokriteti u potpunosti su spremni da nabadaju bebe na bajonete i spaljuju žive ljude u krematorijumu.

No, oni su idealizovani i na drugi način, kao birači u demokratskom sistemu, na šta su veoma ponosni - još jedna uslovljena emocija koja ih čini veličanstvenim u sopstvenim očima.

Nisi ni svesna do koje mere ide taj trening, uslovljavanje emocija i ideja, praktično od samog rođenja.

Koliko puta sam video kako majke vaspitavaju decu, terajući ih da priznaju da su pogrešili, a deca izbegavaju da je pogledaju, gledaju u zemlju - prava priprema za robove. Rob ne sme da pogleda gospodara u oči iako mu ovaj to naređuje. Zna da je u pitanju prevara. Gospodar je taj koji kažnjava a istovremeno i hrani roba. Kakvo sranje!

[angel011]

A ja se trudim da me niko ne eksploatiše.

Ovo je lično pitanje, tako da, ako ne želiš da odgovoriš, poštujem to.

Da li ti nekog eksploatišeš time što si odrasla osoba koju drugi izdržavaju?

[Josephine]

Mnogo glupo pitanje. Život je dešavanje koje je naše iskustvo. Život nismo mi. Oni koji se identifikuju s životom prinuđeni su da slede "zakone opstanka".

Ali vi ste osvestili da ste rob i pokušavate da to ne budete, da vas ne eksploatišu.

Dakle, kada je rad u pitanju - vi nećete da budete rob; kada je život u pitanju - vi pristajete da budete rob, jer je činjenica da, iako život niste vi, ipak imate moć da život (jedan njegov mikro deo), pa samim tim i (lično) zlo, prekinete. Vi ste rob života.

Paradoksalno je da živite, a kritikujete život. Vi od nečega živite. Ako ne eksploatišu vas, eksploatišu druge da biste vi (pre)živeli. Tako podržavate ropstvo.

Na primer, koliko košta izrada starki, koje volite da nosite? Kako ste ih kupili?

[Lord Kufer]

Pa šta? Ja takođe pušim iako je pušenje loše. Mada, uzrok raka pluća uopšte nije duvan nego je azbest, kojeg je bilo svugde oko nas, staklena vuna, izolacija, industrija - međutim, to niko ne pominje. Zar treba zdravo za gotovo da verujem u sve što mi je napisano na paklici?

Ja sam iskusio život i još uvek ga iskušavam, kao zlo. Nisam glup pa da se nadam da će biti bolje. Ništa mi ne znači to što radim, ukoliko sledim "prirodne zakone". Nemam nikakvu motivaciju koja dolazi iz življenja. Naprotiv, moja motivacija je da sagledam život u što više aspekata, dok sam tu. To ću činiti dokle god mogu da trpim. Ali neću činiti ono što je činio Mengele uz neki odgovarajući izgovor. Niti ono što je učinio Brejvik. Niti ono što čine mnogi, samo "autorizovano". Hoću da vidim šta se stvarno dešava i na koji način to uspeva.

Razlog što su starke skupe je taj što se hiljadu njih ugradilo u tu cenu, a cena rada, onih koji u znojarama proizvode te iste starke uopšte nije "po zasluzi" nego je jedva dovoljna da prežive. Ali, oni hoće da žive, pa eto im. Nisu sposobni ni da se pobune. A zašto da ih smatram herojima rada i da mislim da su bolji i pošteniji od mene jer su takvi mamlazi pa rade za druge?

Nije to moj problem - problem je ljudi što su glupi i što tu svoju glupost, nekim čudom (a nije čudo nego je program) smatraju svojom velikom prednošću, pa ima idiota koji se hvale kako u životu nisu pročitali ni jednu knjigu! Upoznao sam i takve. Kako onda njima objasniti bilo šta, kad oni unapred imaju debelu odbranu na način poricanja? A koliko su se puta ljutili na mene kada sam pokušao da razložim to što se dešava - to je ono što se smatra životom i u život se ne sme dirati - život je "svet"! Malo morgen je svet.

[Josephine]

Ima ljudi koji se hvale da nisu pročitali nijednu knjigu. Ali ima i ljudi koji veruju da su ljudi glupi. Ni sa jednima ni sa drugima ne može se razgovarati.

Ja, naprotiv, mislim da ljudi treba da se ponašaju u skladu sa svojim principima. Ne postoje tu izuzeci u vidu "motivacija za sagledavanje svih aspekata života", osim ako niste bog ili vanzemaljac.

Deo ste života i čovečanstva, ipak živite po svim njegovim principima, već samom činjenicom da koristite proizvode robova i time podržavate ropstvo, te vas nikakva distanca ne opravdava.

Ništa lično, naravno. Moram to da napomenem, izuzetno poštujem vaš obrazovanje i znanje. Samo diskutujemo.

[Lord Kufer]

Nije tačno da podržavam ropstvo. Ne mogu ja da budem odgovoran tamo gde se od svakoga traži lična odgovornost i odluka hoće li ili neće. To je ona stara fora, uhvate te nacisti sa još nekim ljudima, i onda ti kažu: Odaberi jednog da ga ubijemo, pa će ostali živeti! Razume se, ako to učiniš, postaješ kao oni. Ali, racionalnost koja vlada ljudima, u većini slučajeva će odabrati "pozitivnu računicu", pa će na osnovu raznoraznih interesa, odrediti ko je najmanje važan i može odmah da umre.

Ja sam u sebi otkrio zlo i želim da ga se otarasim. Obrni-okreni, ispostavilo se da je sam život izvor tog zla. Ali, nije dovoljno samo to reći i onda zdravo doviđenja.

Odlazak iz života se zove smrt, ali šta je smrt? Smrt je znanje koje ti omogućuje da ne slediš protokole života. Postoji ta mogućnost da si u životu i da ideš protiv njega, ne tako što ćeš da ubijaš sve oko sebe, kao u nekom lošem palp SF-u, nego tako što ćeš sebe da poštediš mahinalnog ponašanja.

Kad počneš da motriš na to što radiš, ali doslovno sve što radiš, videćeš koliko toga radiš automatski, prema nekom konsenzusu koji si potpisala ko zna kad, još dok nisi ni bila svesna o čemu se radi. Ljudi daju pristanak na mnoga zla još kad su sasvim mala deca - tako ih vaspitavaju i to se ne dovodi u pitanje (i to je deo vaspitanja). Između ostalih, i Andrić je pisao o tome, kako se vaspitavaju Srbi, muslimani i Hrvati u Bosni i kako je situacija zbog toga bezizlazna. To je poznata opaska. Čim se rodiš, oni te krste ili obrežu a ti se tu ništa ne pitaš. Tako je i s demokratijom i političkom korektnošću, koja je najnovija, globalna religija u nastajanju. U osnovi - fašistička.

[Josephine]

Ja, u potpunosti, razumem šta govorite (nadam se). Razumela sam još od prvog posta, zato sam se sa vama i upustila u diskusiju. Zanimljiva mi je i bliska vaša teza.

No, ja zaista, negde iz dubine svoje suštine , ne mogu da koristim proizvode društva i robova, ne mogu da živim sa ljudima, ne mogu da im razumevam slabosti (mislim i na svoje, naravno), ne mogu ni da razumevam sebe i zlo, a da ih osuđujem.

Ne mogu da kažem da su ljudi glupi. Mogu da kažem da smo programirani, ali glupi - ne. I ne mogu da se distanciram od života i da idem protiv njega tako što neću da radim, jer me to, jednostavno, ostavlja drugima na teretu.

Znate, Lorde, postoji i treći put. Da idete u susret životu, te da, kada ste se već usudili da ga osuđujete, usudite i da ga aktivno menjate. A to ne ide bez neke vrste altruizma.

Moj je lični stav da su svi mizantropi zapravo razočarani altruisti. Vas svrstavam u ove potonje.

[Tex Murphy]

Što bi rekli Dr. Alex Paterson i ekipa:
"There's a third world: a world of objective contents of thoughts."

[angel011]

Nije tačno da podržavam ropstvo. Ne mogu ja da budem odgovoran tamo gde se od svakoga traži lična odgovornost i odluka hoće li ili neće.

Čisto iz radoznalosti: šta bi se desilo da svi neće? Da svako pojedino ljudsko biće odbije da radi? Ko bi onda proizvodio starke i 'marlboro' cigarete, kako bi, recimo, ti dolazio do hrane?

[Josephine]

Na kraju, svaka osuda drugog bića zbog njegove slabosti je manifestacija zla u nama i put u proširivanje mržnje i zla. I to je začarani krug.

Edit: ju, kako ovo hrišćanski zvuči, majku mu. 

[Lord Kufer]

Pa ja to i kažem. Život je zlo.

Life is Resident Evil

[Lord Kufer]

To da je Hrist preuzeo naše grehe na sebe je najveća podvala svih vremena.
Pa i metafizički, ako je "hrist" ličnost, ličnost uopšte ne može da trpi jer nema taj mehanizam razmene, uzimanja i davanja. A život je upravo to - razmena materije, pri čemu nema ni govora o nekakvoj pravičnoj razmeni.

[Josephine]

Pa ja to i kažem. Život je zlo.

Life is Resident Evil

Pa da, ali onda ne osuđujete druge (već ih razumevate) i proterate bar deo zla iz života.