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Šta smo dobro krkali ovih dana?

Started by scallop, 22-09-2008, 18:02:06

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pokojni Steva

Meni nekako lakše o majcu, oko bubrega, stvar navike. Kecelja, eno ih 4-5 komata, visile jadne na zidu dok vakum nosač nije otpao. Valjda su sad međ krpama. A lepe.


Nego, oni njihovi "panjevi" od dasaka za sečenje su me u bedak bacali. Kad ono, neki furnir, lepljen perket, šta li.
Ostavio sam sebi od brestovog debla (a biće i viška, ako je kokođ zainteresovan) da napravim slično, ali u komadu. Samo se bojim da će ispucati kad se rasuši, videćemo na proleće. Nisam nigde našao da je brest otrovan  :-?
Jelte, jel' i kod vas petnaes' do pola dvanaes'?

Cornelius

Quote from: scallop on 14-02-2012, 16:03:33
Kad ja spremam i kad imam kecelju (žena naredi), ja i dalje brišem ruke o farmerke. Jesmo li muški ili ne?

Probaj da brišeš ruke o krpu. Dodje higijenskije.
Je n'ai aucune confiance dans la justice, même si cette justice est faite par moi.

Mica Milovanovic

Mica

Melkor


Food is one of our most basic desires. It's the first thing we ask for after being born, the fuel for our work and our reward at the end of a long day. Because of this, it's been an integral element of storytelling since Eve ate the apple, and science fiction and fantasy are no exception. It's true that food has had a lower profile in the fantastic genres than in literature as a whole—but while it's rarely the star of the show, food frequently plays an essential role.

Perhaps the most common use of food in SF and fantasy is to ground a work. Taste is our most intimate sense, the only one that we experience by taking things into our bodies. For this reason, food imagery can make the most outlandish setting more real and immediate by tying it to familiar sensations. J. R. R. Tolkien, for example, had his characters eat essentially the same foods he enjoyed, and there is a strong connection drawn in his The Fellowship of the Rings between food and home: the last scene set in the Shire is a dinner with Farmer Maggot, whose famous mushrooms Frodo was beaten for stealing many years before. The basket of those mushrooms that the hobbits are gifted with serves as a reminder of what they are leaving behind. It is the homeliness of The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit—in which Bilbo's first challenge is to cook breakfast for thirteen hungry, fussy dwarves—that helped set those books apart from Tolkien's earlier work and contributed to their accessibility and timelessness.

The association of food and home is a natural one. Our notions of home are made up largely of the flavors and smells of what we cook and eat. This applies on the level of a family—most of us have experienced the mild culture shock of visiting a house that uses margarine when we are used to butter, or white bread instead of brown—but it is even more powerful in defining a whole culture. It's the smells of different foods—say, of certain spices or kinds of meat—that can sometimes cause friction when peoples from different cultures are forced to share space.

SF and fantasy writers take advantage of this phenomenon when they use food to establish distance rather than familiarity, as George R. R. Martin does in his A Song of Ice and Fire series. While the largely authentic medieval cooking he describes is not strange enough to make his setting feel entirely alien, it communicates a powerful sense that the novels' world is different from ours—partly by featuring foods that have fallen out of favor, such as lamprey pie (see the excellent Inn at the Crossroads blog for recipes and more information on the use of pies in Martin's series), but also by highlighting the regional and seasonal differences in food. As Waldo Jaquith points out in his essay "On the Impracticality of a Cheeseburger," the biggest gap between the present and the past is not what we eat but when we eat it. Until the development of railroads, canning, and refrigeration, along with the complex financial infrastructure that makes it profitable to ship and store food around the world, only a tiny number of foods could be eaten out of season. As a result, our ancestors' meals were deeply rooted to the time of year in a way that we can hardly imagine.

Using food in this way, to highlight cultural differences rather than similarities, is a common SF trope. Works of SF nearly always include some token examples of foods that are exotic on a surface level—an obvious one being the blue milk in Star Wars—but this technique may also be used in a more thorough way to make aliens seem more alien. In particular, aliens' eating habits are often shown as being disgusting to humans. For example, Klingon food in Star Trek is generally used as a challenge or an obstacle to the humans who must eat it: Our first introduction to Klingon cuisine on Star Trek: The Next Generation comes when Commander Riker eats a Klingon meal, to the open disgust of his colleagues, in order to accustom himself to it before serving as an exchange officer on a Klingon ship. The archetypal Klingon food—a living (and still moving) worm called gagh—is an example of a classic cultural slander: To accuse others of eating their food raw is to claim that they either have not developed or worse have rejected the use of fire for cooking—making them so savage as to be barely above the level of animals.

Historically, the only food-related slander worse than saying that people didn't cook their food was to accuse them of eating the wrong things entirely—like other people. An example in fantasy is Caliban in Shakespeare's The Tempest, whose eating habits—implied by his name, which is a near-anagram of "cannibal"—justify Prospero's conquest of the island and Caliban's enslavement. The ingestion of human tissue is, of course, a frequent activity of certain monsters, most notably vampires and zombies. In both cases the bite may transform the victim as well, a common feature of cannibalistic monsters. The Wendigo, according to the Algonquian peoples, was most often a malevolent spirit, but it could also be a person transformed by eating human flesh. In SF, humans are more likely to be victims of human-eating aliens—as in (spoiler alert) the Twilight Zone episode "To Serve Man"—than to be cannibals themselves.

There are exceptions to this rule, though, one of the most famous being the film Soylent Green. Although Harry Harrison complained about the changes made to the source material for Soylent Green—his novel Make Room! Make Room!, which did not contain any references to cannibalism or even the phrase "soylent green"—those changes give the movie a deeper currency than the novel. By juxtaposing heavily processed food with cannibalism, Soylent Green's very title has become a shorthand for the way in which our industrial food system, thanks to which we may go our entire lives eating food that has been picked, processed, cooked, and packaged out of our sight, distances us from our moral responsibility toward what we eat—leaving open the possibility that what we eat could be soylent green without our knowing it.

Like the Wendigo's cannibalism, the invention of soylent green is caused by famine. This illustrates another way in which SF uses food: to speculate about scarcity and abundance. One of the building blocks of SF is the question, "What happens if this goes on?"—and many writers have explored the idea that developments in technology, society, or demographics might lead us to either critical shortages of food or to a future where those shortages are a thing of the past. Both visions exist side by side in H.G. Wells' The Time Machine. Musing on the increasing economic disparity of his day, Wells describes a life of ultimate leisure for the indolent, upper-class Eloi. While all their physical needs are tended to, however, the Eloi themselves end life as food for the subhuman Morlocks—a situation Wells likely imagined as both an echo and a reversal of Jonathan Swift's A Modest Proposal, which satirically suggested that Ireland's potato famine could be solved if the Irish were only willing to eat their own children.

Genuinely endless food supplies are not often found in SF, and when they do they are rarely the central idea of the story. Rather they are devices that keep the writer from having to deal with food as an issue, such as the food dispensers in Philip José Farmer's Riverworld and the replicators in Star Trek. Nevertheless, food pills and machines have become fixed in the general public's mind as one of the key elements of SF. Rather than being created by SF writers, though, the idea of the food pill more likely arose from nutritionists of the 19th century, who attempted to solve hunger by boiling down food (in some cases literally) to its supposedly essential elements. The fact that those who embarked on these diets often became worse off eventually led to the discovery of vitamins. Ironically, the isolation of vitamins in pill form encouraged a widespread belief that a complete food pill was on its way, whereas the truth was that people needed vitamins to supplement the heavily processed and barely nutritious "food pills" they were already eating.

For most contemporary readers, especially those in more developed areas of the world such as North America, the notion of a food shortage is so distant that fantasies of abundance have little power. What has taken their place is the imagining of food that is not just free but guilt-free—such as meat that can be eaten without killing animals. This, too, may be played straight or satirically, but it is the satirical examples that have endured. For instance: the vat-grown meat found in Frederik Pohl and Cyril M. Kornbluth's The Space Merchants and William Gibson's Neuromancer; the Chickie Nobs in Margaret Atwood's Oryx and Crake, genetically engineered to have no heads and therefore feel no pain; and of course the sentient Meat served in Douglas Adams' The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, which introduces itself to diners and, in an effort to soothe their consciences, tries to reassure them by insisting, "I'll be very humane."

One place the fantasy of an endless food supply is still alive is children's fiction. Food is a major part of the power dynamic between adults and children, who learn early that the pleasures of dessert only come after the sacrifice of eating vegetables. This dynamic is reproduced in Suzanne Collins' The Hunger Games series, where the impoverished Districts make do with fish and greens stew (and, no doubt, broccoli and Brussels sprouts) while the rulers in the Capitol enjoy such exotic treats as a purple-fleshed melon. With a few exceptions (such as foie gras, surely chosen for its associations with gluttony and cruelty), nearly all of the foods associated with the Capitol are sweets: melon, pancakes, marmalade, and orange juice—as close to candy as is possible in the world of the series. Because it is controlled, withheld, and only occasionally doled out by adults, candy is a natural focus for children's fantasies. When British author Roald Dahl's Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was published in 1964, many readers had vivid memories of wartime shortages (the rationing of candy had only ended in England in 1953), making the image of endless chocolate extra appealing. But the novel's fantasy goes beyond mere abundance: It also imagines that all the restrictions adults place on eating candy may be removed by such magical treats as caramels that fill the dental cavities they create.

The most lasting images from Dahl's book (and its film versions) are not the visions of plenty, however, but those of transformation—such as Violet Beauregarde's metamorphosis into a giant blueberry as a result of chewing experimental gum. The notion that food can change us has a long history; as the adage has it, "You are what you eat." In some cases this means that food acts essentially as a drug. To the cyborgs in Kage Baker's Company series, chocolate is literally a drug, intoxicating them as alcohol does normal humans. More often, though, food is seen as having a medicinal effect—a common feature of many medical beliefs, such as the medieval theory of humors and the central tenet of the health-food movements of the last two centuries. Soylent green is in part a satire of health food; so, too, is the deadly yogurt in the movie The Stuff, which is also a critique of the have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too mentality that has produced low-fat versions of ice cream and mayonnaise.

In fantasy, the transformative effects of food tend to run deeper, altering the soul as well as the body. Lembas, the Elven bread in The Lord of the Rings, resembles a food pill in its physical effects, but it is also shown as lightening the souls of good people while being inedible to evil creatures such as Gollum. Underlining its healing power, Tolkien also refers to lembas as waybread—the Anglo-Saxon name for plantain leaf, an herb whose healing and protective powers were so revered that it was numbered among Woden's Nine Herbs in the medieval English tradition. Food can also be the cause of a negative transformation, and in some cases may change a character's identity entirely: In some Norse sources, Loki turns from mischievous to truly evil only after eating the heart of a witch. Similarly, visitors to fairyland are typically warned to avoid eating any food there, or else they will be forced to lose their humanity and remain forever—as the Greek goddess Persephone was bound to remain in the underworld for half of every year after eating six pomegranate seeds.

While Loki brought his transformation on himself, Persephone was tricked by someone she should have been able to trust—her host Hades, the god of the dead. For the ancient Greeks, xenia—the responsibility of a host to a guest (and vice versa)—was one of the highest values. The relationship between guest and host is symbolized by food. To break bread with someone is to accept them as a guest, essentially considering them a part of the family for the length of their stay. Because of this, meals are often used in fiction to bring antagonists together in a situation where their conflict must be restrained; think of all the dinners Dracula has served his guests over the years. But they may also serve as symbols of reconciliation or restoration, as the meals served at Beorn's and Elrond's houses in The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings do, or of a restoration of the natural order. An example of the latter is the ending of every one of René Goscinny's Asterix stories, where Asterix's Gaulish village joins together in a feast that shows all is once more right with the world.

The ultimate expression of the idea of feast-as-reconciliation is a wedding, in which two unrelated groups are permanently joined; this is why comedies traditionally end with weddings. The symbolic power of weddings makes it doubly powerful when those attending betray the ethic of xenia, as in the Red Wedding in Martin's A Storm of Swords. (The link between food and xenia here is underlined by Robb Stark's request to be fed just bread and salt, which symbolize the host's duty to his guest in the world of the series.) A similar use of xenia in play is the scene in The Empire Strikes Back where Lando Calrissian ushers the heroes to dinner with Darth Vader. This serves as a dramatic betrayal of xenia, as Calrissian is violating his duty to his guests. Placing Vader at the head of the table makes the scene a parody of xenia as well, by having a host who presumably cannot eat.

To the Greeks, the greatest offender against xenia was Tantalus, who failed as both guest and host. After stealing ambrosia from the gods' table, he served them his own son for dinner. For this he was punished by being made to stand in a pool of water that drained whenever he tried to drink it, near a fruit tree whose branches pulled away whenever he tried to pick from it—which gave rise to the English word tantalized, something which may happen to you when you read about some of the meals described in SF and fantasy.
"Realism is a literary technique no longer adequate for the purpose of representing reality."

Mica Milovanovic

Da scallop ne kaže da ne mislimo na njega...

Eh, a ja godinama bezuspešno tražim:

       SF, konjske trke i upravljanje vodama
- Od Bernulija, preko Meri Šeli do Lestera Pigota...
Mica

scallop

A jedan esej na temu: Šta se dobro krkalo u delima Radmila Anđelkovića.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

scallop

Evo još jedne veze između dobre književnosti i dobre kuhinje. I za dobru kuhinju neophodna je priprema. Danas na TV onaj Rudolf van Vim krka sa nekom ženskom po Parizu i u jednom trenutku dođe na red choucrout. To mu dođe kao neki ribanac sa svinjarijama, ali, tako mi je zapušilo sa ekrana da sam odlučio da to napravim. Priprema počinje sada, a šukru će krkamo za nekoliko dana.


Najpre ide komparativna studija. 8)  Pravimo mi slične stvari. Asocijacija na kupus sa svinjarijama mi uvek pred oči stavlja sliku prstiju koji poklope tanjir sa jelom, pa kad se dignu uvis, pola tanjira ostane zalepljeno za njih. To znači da će u kiselom kupusu, pored masnije svinjetine obavezno biti i mesa sa puno pektina, sigurno neki komad junetine od ribića, san je da se tu promuva juneći papak sa sve kožicom i tetivama na njoj. To sigurno nije ribanac, ima tu puno safta... Ribanac uvek zamišljamo kao sitno narezan kiseli kupus, biber, svinjske krmenadle, vrat... Iz poređenja me budi činjenica da šukru ima i kleku. Da se ribanac, dok se dinsta, naliva sa pivom!


Dakle, imam svoj kupus i znam da ga narežem sitno. Lako ćemo za pivo, imam listove lorbera, ali moram da kupim zrna kleke. Mnogi ne znaju da kleku nazivaju i venjom. Jedino, venja ne vuče na crno nego na smeđe. Sutra ću da skoknem po stiške i kranjske kobasice, neku šniclu od vrata ili krmenadlu, slaninu imam, a ako se okliznem na neki juneći ribić... niko nije savršen.


Nastavak u sledećoj epizodi. xcheers
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

Cornelius

Quote from: scallop on 16-02-2012, 15:34:29
Evo još jedne veze između dobre književnosti i dobre kuhinje. I za dobru kuhinju neophodna je priprema. Danas na TV onaj Rudolf van Vim krka sa nekom ženskom po Parizu i u jednom trenutku dođe na red choucrout. To mu dođe kao neki ribanac sa svinjarijama, ali, tako mi je zapušilo sa ekrana da sam odlučio da to napravim. Priprema počinje sada, a šukru će krkamo za nekoliko dana.

Pored šukruta sa svinjskim mesom, kobasicama i viršlama, pravi se i šukrut sa ribom. Kupus se garnira dimljenim bakalarom, svežim lososom i manićem. Ko voli, može da dadoda i kozice, kao i malo školjki. Stvar je ubistvena kada se pripremi sa gevurctraminerom koji se, jelte, posle pije uz šukrut. Sehr schoen!
Je n'ai aucune confiance dans la justice, même si cette justice est faite par moi.

pokojni Steva

Kad je to riba prestala biti meso?
Jelte, jel' i kod vas petnaes' do pola dvanaes'?

scallop

Od onda kad su su ih jezici prepoznali kao različite.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

Cornelius

Je n'ai aucune confiance dans la justice, même si cette justice est faite par moi.

pokojni Steva

Jelte, jel' i kod vas petnaes' do pola dvanaes'?

pokojni Steva

Rudolf i onaj pekar su isti likovi  :-?






Još uvek "procesuiram" ali mi nikako ne liče. Doduše, meni su svi "Belgijanci" isti...


I nije Vim  xtwak  neg Vin.
Jelte, jel' i kod vas petnaes' do pola dvanaes'?

Cornelius

Quote from: Cornelius on 03-02-2012, 20:14:17


Obradu mesa ne komentarišem, jer o tome ne znam.


Tu.
[/quote]

U tom postu sam komentarisao dva recepta Nightija, spremana sa povrćem, svinjskim i govedjim mesom. Komentarisao sam obradu povrća, ali ne i mesa (svinjskog i govedjeg), jer to nisam radio zadnjih 17 godina.
Je n'ai aucune confiance dans la justice, même si cette justice est faite par moi.

scallop

Razlikuju se cvikeri i farba kose, a ja gledam zube i uši.


Ako nemaš pametnija posla: kako se razlikuju ova trojica: Rođa sa Bezvođa, Zare iz Pustare i Mina iza Dina?
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

scallop

Gledam i ovu žensku što cinculira recepte do iscrpljenja, pa da dam par saveta: Nikada ne nasedajte na artičoku. To je arčenje para i vremena, jer se upotrebljava isto toliko koliko i iz morskog ježa. Druga stvar je da kupite u tegli samo srca artičoke, ako možete da platite. U istu korpu idu i vinogradarski puževi. Možete da ih nakupite za Џ, ali ćete dobiti jariće dok ih spremite. Umesto toga, kupite pola kile pilećih bubaca, spremite ih kao gulaš, a poslužite kao puževe. :mrgreen:
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

Cornelius

Quote from: scallop on 17-02-2012, 12:53:07
U istu korpu idu i vinogradarski puževi. Možete da ih nakupite za Џ, ali ćete dobiti jariće dok ih spremite. Umesto toga, kupite pola kile pilećih bubaca, spremite ih kao gulaš, a poslužite kao puževe. :mrgreen:

Ja ovde imam olakšicu. Mogu da se kupe puževi bez kućice i nisu u nekakvom sosu. Tegla od 60 puževa. Posle je lako sa njima napraviti pilav, rižoto ili špagete. E, baš je dobro što si me podsetio. Spremaću puževe ovih dana.  xjap
Je n'ai aucune confiance dans la justice, même si cette justice est faite par moi.

scallop

Koliko koštaju? To je poenta, jer je ukus isti.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

Cornelius

Ne sećam se cene. Puževi su prodavani u dva dela - sa jedne strane meso, a sa druge strane prazne kućice. Posle treba pripremiti sos od putera i belog luka sa začinimaq, pa njime i mesom puniti kućice. Inače, kućice su bile skuplje od mesa, valjda što možeš da ih propereš i ostaviš za sledeći put.
Je n'ai aucune confiance dans la justice, même si cette justice est faite par moi.

scallop

Nije to prvo pakovanje skuplje od proizvoda. :(  Kad kupiš kućice onda možeš u njih da pakuješ i bubce. :lol:


Nigde kleke, nigde paradajz pirea... A i kupus mi je na terasi zamrznut. :cry:

Jutros nešto razmišljam o tome kako uništiti momentalni svetski ekonomski poredak, pa mi padne na pamet kako uništavamo sami sebe. Na primer, pre nekih pola godine otkrijemo (ne samo ja) dobru mesaru Agropapuk kod Kalenić pijace. Meso od mangulice, dobri suhomesnati proizvodi, papci za pihtije malo dlakavi, ali kad ih depiliraš, em jeftini em ukusni. Neka "čvarkovača" (mast i sitni čvarci) za samo 260 dinara kilo. Kupio ja tu mast i - divota. Eh, sledeći put, učini se meni da u "proizvodu" ima više masti nego čvaraka. Treći put utvrdim da je to činjenica i odlučim da više ne kupujem. Pre dva dana svratim do te radnje, imali i simpatične kranjske kobasice i šipak. Prodavnice nema, a lokal se izdaje. Znači, pukla firma. Slično mi se dogodilo i sa pekorinom i kačkavaljima Imleka iz njihove mlekare u Makedoniji. Hvalio sam ih ovde, a sad - nikakav. Pre godinu dana smo mogli da nabavimo sjajne suve višnje iz Brusa, pa nestalo. Mi u Srbiji ili izvezemo u Rusiju, ili podignemo cene pa postane nedostupno ili oborimo kvalitet pa firma propadne. Prava slovenska antiteza, jer, niti grmi, nit se zemlja trese, nit udara more o mramorje, več navalile razne izjelice, oni koji ne muzu krave ali skidaju kajmak. Budući da je car odavno go, Grčka propala, a bune se ko Grk u apsu, nešto mi fali globalni Dinkić da sjebe svetski bankarski sistem, da se oslobodimo pantljičara i jedemo ono što sami skuvamo.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

zakk

A uđavola, nije mi valjda Agropapuk propao  :( :cry:
Why shouldn't things be largely absurd, futile, and transitory? They are so, and we are so, and they and we go very well together.

scallop

Život je kučka.


Problem je u tome što se pod pritiskom stranog kapitala kome je cilj da plasira robu koju kontroliše sve druge inicijative surovo istrebljuju. Eno ti Steve i njegovih žutih roga koje je neko odlučio da ne kupi, jer je druga ponuda bila bolje komtrolisana. Negde  pre 40 godina sam bio iznenađen u Norveškoj što su promptno kupovali njihov sitan i nikakav krompir, a ne švapski, jer im je bilo važno da baš tog krompira uvek bude. Ne bi nas mnogo koštalo da malo podržimo domaće proizvode. Kad pobegnu svi ovi koji nas cede, mora da ostane neko ko ovde proizvodi ono što ćemo da žderemo.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

Cornelius

Quote from: scallop on 18-02-2012, 15:15:11
Ne bi nas mnogo koštalo da malo podržimo domaće proizvode. Kad pobegnu svi ovi koji nas cede, mora da ostane neko ko ovde proizvodi ono što ćemo da žderemo.

Ama i ovde je tako. Svi pricaju da treba kupovati domace proizvode, a najvise to pricaju oni koji imaju najmanje para i rade u domacoj proizvodnji. Najveci problem je sto su svi strani proizvodi (kineski, indijski, turski, alzirski, juznoamericki...) bitno jeftiniji od domacih. Finalno, domace proizvode kupuje samo elita koja ima puno para i koja moze sebi da priusti trosak.

Hrana u Francuskoj je sve gora i gora. Prehrambeni proizvodi se prave sa palminim uljem (jeftino, a lose za zdravlje), riba se uvozi iz zemalja u kojoj je hrane cistom hemijom, skoro svo brasno je prepuno pesticida, a 30 % svih pesticida idu u vinogradarstvo (a posle u nase case). Cuvena francuska kuhinja postoji jos samo u knjigama i u najskupljim restoranima. Vise od 80 % francuskih restorana servira industrijski pripremljenu hranu koju samo malo dorade ili prespu u tanjire.

Znaci, najbolje se jede u kuci, ako se ima dovoljno love da se kupe kvalitetniji proizvodi.
Je n'ai aucune confiance dans la justice, même si cette justice est faite par moi.

angel011

Ima l' bre negde da je normalno?


Otac mi živi u Hrvatskoj, u primorju; njegova žena radi kao kuvarica u hotelu. Ona mi kaže da maltene ništa više ne spremaju onako kako su nekad spremali, ono, stvarno da skuvaju supu i tako to. Sve već unapred industrijski spremljeno.


Govedinu su uvozili (verovatno i dalje uvoze) argentinsku, ono što je 3-4 godine trčalo po pampi i što otprilike isto toliko treba da kuvaš da bi bilo jestivo, predviđeno za sekundarne sirovine, a prodaje se kao normalna govedina u trgovinama.


Ovde imaš haringe u konzervi. Eva haringa, Neptun haringa, Losos haringa... Pogledaš deklaraciju, sve isti proizvođač iz Poljske, ovi samo prepakuju i eventualno dodaju neki sos.  xrotaeye
We're all mad here.

scallop

U Dalmaciji ne plivaju haringe, a ni krava nema po kamenjaru između četinara i maslina. Da nema Slavonije ne bi bilo ni pršuta.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

zakk

A u Srbiji nema goveda kolko ih samo Zlatiborac proda.
Why shouldn't things be largely absurd, futile, and transitory? They are so, and we are so, and they and we go very well together.

scallop

Uvoz sirovina za proizvodnju prehrambenih proizvoda bio bi u redu da je pokriven izvozom sopstvenih proizvoda. Svojevremeno je Japan bio najveći izvoznik, ali i uvoznik pirinča. Svoj skup i visokokvalitetan proizvod su trampili za daleko veće količine jeftinijeg i manje kvalitetnog pirinča sa Indijskog potkontinenta (Indija, Burma itd.) Dakle, bilo bi lepo da mi izvozimo naše kvalitetne proizvode od naših, recimo, krava, a da uvozimo argentinske za neke naše potrebe. Kao što sam svojevremeno bio car kad u Grčku donesem belasičko jagnje ili jare, a tamo su "bugarska" (i sva domaća) bila izuzetno skupa, a dostupna samo zelandska zamrznuta.


Muka je što naš proizvod nije kvalitetan, sa snažnom tendencijom opadanja istog. Nijedan naš prehrambeni proizvod nema zaštitu kvaliteta. To znači da nema šanse da kontinuirano jedete isti hleb, sir, mesne proizvode, pa i bilo šta drugo. A odsustvo zaštite kvaliteta automatski znači da nema ni izvoza. Sigurno postoji određeni broj naših proizvoda koji imaju prolaz na svetskom tržištu, ali mi njih ni ne vidimo. I o kvalitetu se brinu oni koji kupuju, a ne oni koji prodaju. Jedan od retkih naših mesnih proizvoda koji bih bio spreman da kupim je Izletnička kobasica, Banatska Topola. Ali, to se pojavi samo kad nešto ne izvezu.


Kad naš kajmak bude imao deklaraciju kao francuski normandijski sirevi kamamber ili livaro, a ne konstataciju da bez projinog brašna i margarina nema dobrog kajmaka, onda ćemo moći o nečemu da govorimo. Kamamber ima istoriju, legendu, spomenike Marie Harel, propise, zakone, udruženja i teritoriju. Neke države imaju manje.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

Plut

Jedna naša firma pokušava da napravi kvalitetan proizvod (i to ne jedan), striktno od domaćih sirovina, plaćaju silne standarde, prečišćavaju vodu, nakupovali se dobrih mašina, zasukali rukave,  brinu o kvalitetu, nastoje da svaki bude isti, nema šećera, nema vode, sve divno i krasno i šta? Toliko ispalo skupo da neće naši da kupuju, tj. malo ih je koji mogu. I šta sad? Krkljaju, muče se i jedinu nadu polažu u izvoz, a bome i to teško ide. Ne vredi kod nas raditi kvalitetno, nema potrošača. Uvezi iz neke tamo zemlje jeftino, prepakuj, ubaci u tegle i šibaj, to se kupuje. I trgovačke marke, a to je već druga priča, izuzetno ružna i pljačkaška.

Nightflier

Šta znam - valjda to zavisi od kupovne moći. Na primer, ja se trudim da kupujem domaće proizvode kad god mogu i kada su zadovoljavajućeg kvaliteta. Od čokolada kupujemo ili "Bambi" ili "Najlepše želje". Kada se uželim ajvara, ili se zadesi da sam potrošio sve domaće slatko u kući, a majka mi nije bila u poseti da donese novu turu, kupujem samo "Bakinu tajnu". Od prerađevina samo "Karneksove", mada sam probao "Gombitove" kranjske kobasice i zadovoljan sam. Ali problem je u tome što je sve što sam naveo drastično skuplje od nekih drugih istorodnih proizvoda, tako da nisam siguran koliko ih ljudi kupuje, a koliko se opredeljuje za smeće tipa "Premije" ili "K plus", koje je trostruko jeftinije.
Sebarsko je da budu gladni.
First 666

Plut

O tome i pričam. Ti si jedan od retkih koji uspeva. Što se Bakine tajne tiče, misliš da bi Foodland uspeo na ovom tržištu da nemaju i Amfissu (uvozno đubre, ali jeftino), da se ne bave distribucijom makarona i sl? Inače, trgovačke marke ne moraju pod obavezno biti lošijeg kvaliteta. ja ih kupujem, ali redovno prvo pogledam čiji je proizvod. Poenta je da obaraju cene po kojima radiš za njih ili nema ulaska na njihove police, pa ona ulistavanje proizvoda na flajerima, akcije, promocije i sl. Kvalitet isti. Ako hoćeš da tvoj proizvod ugleda svetlo police moraš to debelo da platiš. Čista ucena. Nikad ne kupujem trgovačku marku za koju radi meni nepoznat proizvođač, tu jesam sumnjičava.

scallop

Plut, "neka firma" će sigurno propasti, ako ne napravi projekat pre nego što potroši pare. Ponekad ne razumem kako razmišljate uopšte. Priča "jedan tamo propao" je tako luzerska i kontraproduktivna, a stalno lupam glavu o nju. Evo, i za Gulov doktorat me uveravaju "u tamo neki slučaj", a ja znam da to nije tako.


Na primer, pre pet dana sam odlučio da napravim šukrut. Pa, smo studirali recepte, raspoložive sirovine, ograničenja za proizvodnju... Pa sam  polako nabavio sve što mi treba i sinoć smo raspravljali kome ćemo da "prodamo". Jer, ko će to sve izesti? Danas smo udeverali dva gosta, a mislim da ćemo da nabavimo još bar dva. Zakazano za petak, kasni ručak. Vino i pivo ću da dokupim u petak, ko zna da li će neko da otkaže. 8)  Pa, ako ja mogu jedan ručak da planiram deset dana, mogla je i "neka firma" da prvo sagleda gde je kraj projekta!
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

M.M

Quote from: Nightflier on 21-02-2012, 23:18:28
... tako da nisam siguran koliko ih ljudi kupuje, a koliko se opredeljuje za smeće tipa "Premije" ili "K plus", koje je trostruko jeftinije.

Za "smeće" se opredeljuju građani trećeg/četvrtog/n-tog reda, a, njih, nas, na žalost u Srbiji ima, otprilike, 85 procenata, ako ne i više.
Nijedan poraz nije konačan.

Nightflier

Pazi, uspevam sada kada imam posao. Pre jedno dve godine daleko od toga da sam kupovao takve stvari. Dapače, ni sada ne bih mogao da ih priuštim da nije ženinih roditelja i moje majke, koji nas snabdevaju svinjetinom i piletinom, respectively.
Sebarsko je da budu gladni.
First 666

scallop

Ženini svinjetinu, a majka piletinu. K'o Nešić? Jedan na jedan?
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

Nightflier

Duga je to i komplikovana priča.

Naime, u jednom trenutku silno sam poželeo da imam psa. Bilo je 2004. Pošto smo majka i ja živeli u dvosobnom stanu, iako samo praktično u seoskoj sredini, iznajmili smo dvorište sa nekom straćarom i ja sam kupio malamuta. Nekoliko meseci kasnije, majka je kupila tibetanskog terijera, da malamut ne bi bio sam kada mi nismo sa njim, odnosno njom. E, pošto je sredina takva kakva je, majku je bio blam da izmajmljujemo kuću & dvorište samo zbog kučića, pa je kupila nekoliko kokošaka, pošto je to društveno prihvaćeno. I tako je to krenulo...

Uglavnom, kupuje jarmu na pijaci i njom hrani kokoške, pa nas snabdeva jajima manje-više redovno, a prošle godine je probno utovila tri megaćurke. Usput ima i morke, plovke i raznu ukrasnu živinu - premda je prošle godine bračni par lisica napravio pogrom međ' njenom živinskom populacijom. Gajila bi ona i svinje, ali ja ne dam. Doduše, sada ima shared custody nad stadom od desetak koza...
Sebarsko je da budu gladni.
First 666

Plut

Ne kažem ja da "neka firma" nije grešila u proračunima, ali ne u svim. Ovo su poslovi koji se ne rade u godinu dana, proces je mnogo, mnogo duži. Naravno da se planira, pa se onda planovi usklađuju sa trenutnom situacijom i procenama šta nas čeka, pa se onda opet malo menjaju i tako u krug, drugačije nije moguće išta uraditi. Kod nas se sve jako brzo menja, tržište, potražnja, da ne pričam o subvencijama države koja dve godine podržava jedno, a onda se okrene pa lepo u po posla prekine sa subvencijama i smisli čemu će se sada okrenuti, cene... sve. Ne može se ipak tako lako porediti planiranje ručka i čitavo postrojenje za pravljenje npr. ajvara od pečene paprike i to domaće paprike. A država nema nameru da zaštiti domaćeg proizvođača ili prerađivača ili barem da mu pomogne u izvozu. Zato sve može da se uveze, jeftinije, a o kvalitetu ne vredi pričati.

Slažem se, duga je i komplikovana priča.

scallop

I sad ti misliš da si mi nešto objasnila, a ja mislim da ti ništa nisam objasnio.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

pokojni Steva

Jelte, jel' i kod vas petnaes' do pola dvanaes'?

zakk

Why shouldn't things be largely absurd, futile, and transitory? They are so, and we are so, and they and we go very well together.

Cornelius

Ova Tante Marie pravi tarte tatin kao što ja radim zidarske radove. Posle sve, uglavnom, otpada i ruši se. A izgledalo je kao pravo dok sam malterisao.
Je n'ai aucune confiance dans la justice, même si cette justice est faite par moi.

zakk

Ješću velkom kašikom, nema veze :D
Why shouldn't things be largely absurd, futile, and transitory? They are so, and we are so, and they and we go very well together.

pokojni Steva

Ti se baš loše hranih kad ti ono tera čorbu na usta  :( 


Sve novce dajem na domaći lenju pitu s jabukama.





p.s.
Babac ima rad ruku ko Miroslav Ilić  :!:
Jelte, jel' i kod vas petnaes' do pola dvanaes'?

zakk

Ne umem lenju pitu, ovo ću umeti, otud moje radovanje :)
Why shouldn't things be largely absurd, futile, and transitory? They are so, and we are so, and they and we go very well together.

scallop

Juče smo, konačno, napravili i izjeli choucrout.


Gore su projice. Red je sa tako nečim. Verovatno svi znaju kako to ide: projino brašno, sir i kajmak. Ja pojma nemam. Opet nisam gledao kako to žena pravi.


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Ovo je choucrout. Više nego liči na sve one slike na Netu. Izvedba je bila slična onoj koju nudi Emerill Lagassee. On je moj idol. Za ovo sam zaslužan u kompletu i nadam se da niko neće zaželeti da mu dam recept. Letnji dan dopodne sam trpao sve što ide i što mi se dopalo da ide. Pržio, dinstao, braunirao, krčkao i rernirao. Bem ti kiseli kupus koji ima ime različito od našeg ribanca ili kupuščine sa svinjarijama. A stalno vuče ka tim jelima. Izvedba je kompletno moja, žena je čak gostima rekla da sam ja pravio. Pobrao sam komplimente.




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Uz ovako seljačka jela idu i seljački slatkiši. Salarice su sa domaćim salom, a pekmezi su isto naši, od kajsija i grejpfruta. Izvedba je bila lapo-lapo.


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Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

Nightflier

Sebarsko je da budu gladni.
First 666

scallop

Neku domaću, zapaprenu sa pijace, 500 d/kg, Stišku i Kranjsku iz Slavije, 290 d/kg. Kolenica je bila duga i bez kože (bolje nego uobičajene, na pijaci kod istog kao i kobaje) 300 d/kg. A, počeo sam na slaninici krupno sečenoj.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

M.M

Scallope, ovo zaista izgleda impresivno. Gledam slike i razmišljam o tome kako bih, bar, pola količine sa svake slike proždrnuo. Mislim da ne moram da naglašavam da sam baš onako gladan.
Nijedan poraz nije konačan.

scallop

Muka je što se kupus i krompir ne vide, pa Nihgtflier pita za kobaje, a njih možeš da jedeš i bez kupusa. :-x
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. - Mark Twain.

lilit

joj majko kakvi salčići!!! zavidim najcrnje onima koji su imali priliku da ih jedu.
That's how it is with people. Nobody cares how it works as long as it works.

Nightflier

Quote from: scallop on 25-02-2012, 19:31:02
Muka je što se kupus i krompir ne vide, pa Nihgtflier pita za kobaje, a njih možeš da jedeš i bez kupusa. :-x

Pitam zbog toga što nigde u Beogradu nisam našao dobre ljute kobasice. Ima kobasica u mesari u kojoj redovno kupujem, ali su vlasnici Bosanci, pa su kobadže nedovoljno začinjene. Inače su izrvsne. Izgleda mi da ću morati da kupujem takve stvari na pijacama - a do sada sam izbegavao ponajviše iz straha da ne kupim nešto lošeg kvaliteta ili zaraženo nekim čudom.
Sebarsko je da budu gladni.
First 666