George R. R. Martin "Igra Prestola"

[cutter]

ups, na internetu kažu da je i to vinterfel. a kako je prevedeno frostfangs?

[EMA]

Meni je Zimovrel odličan prevod. Ne bih mogla da zamislim ništa drugo umesto toga. Čak i zvuči slično Winterfell-Zimovrel 
Inače sam ove 4 knjige pročitala samo na srpskom, za većinu termina i ne znam kako glase u originalu. A najbolja mi je treća knjiga (Oluja mačeva), tu samo lete glave 

[Savajat Erp]

баш сад њу читам...

[Svevid]

да, винтерфел...

[Savajat Erp]

у том случају је наш превод тачнији, нисам знао оргиналне називе...а Ливачка Стена - Бацачева Хрид, Брзоречје - Ријекоток? 

[Svevid]

Звучи лепо

[Savajat Erp]

прочитао Олују мачева, стварно је засад најзанимљивији део...колико још има - још једна књига из два дела и то је то?

[Perin]

Da, i onda čekaš na "Ples s zmajevima."

[Savajat Erp]

колико сам схватио на тај "Плес змајева" се већ чека годинама, чак толико да се људи прибојавају да ће Мартин пандркнути пре него што га уопште заврши...

[Savajat Erp]

и сад и ја чекам "Плес са змајевима"...Гозба за вране је отворила још гомилу питања и чисто сумњам да ће Мартин оов све моћи ефектно да заврши без неких 1000-1200 страна, види се да се у овом делу олако отарасио неких осредње битних ликова из претходних (Псето, Витез од Празилука, који је у једном од претходних делова имао и посебна поглавља), једноставно наводећи да су негде тамо рикнули, а док им је пре давао доста простора. самом чињеницом да се у овом делу готово ништа од радње не одиграва на Зиду и да нема Баука (Вражићка, што би рекли Рвати), чини га за мене мање занимљивим од осталих.

[cutter]

чисто сумњам да ће Мартин оов све моћи ефектно да заврши без неких 10000-12000 страна

Isto.

[Mme Chauchat]

Zašto misliš da se otarasio Pseta? 

[Savajat Erp]

мислиш да није? да ће и он као и Кејтлин Старк (Kate S за пријатеље) да се појави изненада? сумњам, али никад се не зна...

cutteru, претера га...

[cutter]

Samo se zalažem da ne zbrza ono što je pokrenuo. Mada bih mu ja bio zahvalan da Eurona i vikinge više ne pominje. A najbolje da će i Šandor da ispadne zombi, nije dosta što će brat da mu za konačni showdown izađe iz dungeona kao uber frankenštajn nego treba i da posle umre na Sansinim rukama dok mu ona peva pesmicu.  

[armadillo]

Pseta se otarasio, ali Davosa nije. Samo se pominje glas da je Davos pogubljen, ali mislim da je to varka. Čak sam siguran da jeste. A što se tiče kraja, neće još duuugooo biti gotovo.

[cutter]

On the upper slopes they saw three boys driving sheep, and higher still they passed a lichyard where a brother bigger than Brienne was struggling to dig a grave. From the way he moved, it was plain to see that he was lame. As he flung a spadeful of the stony soil over one shoulder, some chanced to spatter against their feet. "Be more watchful there," chided Brother Narbert. "Septon Meribald might have gotten a mouthful of dirt." The gravedigger lowered his head. When Dog went to sniff him he dropped his spade and scratched his ear.

    "A novice," explained Narbert.

[Savajat Erp]

Samo se zalažem da ne zbrza ono što je pokrenuo. Mada bih mu ja bio zahvalan da Eurona i vikinge više ne pominje. A najbolje da će i Šandor da ispadne zombi, nije dosta što će brat da mu za konačni showdown izađe iz dungeona kao uber frankenštajn nego treba i da posle umre na Sansinim rukama dok mu ona peva pesmicu. 

Еурона? Мислиш на Јурона и тако те? Читаш у оргиналу, or what?
А ово друго тек нисам сконтао, сем да се можда мисли на Џејмибоја и "Вражићка"...

[Mme Chauchat]

Bravo Cutter, to je to. Ne bih ja nikad skontala da nisam vapila "Kako? A ko će ubiti zlog burazera?? A Sansa???" i očajnički tražila signale nade

[cutter]

Samo se zalažem da ne zbrza ono što je pokrenuo. Mada bih mu ja bio zahvalan da Eurona i vikinge više ne pominje. A najbolje da će i Šandor da ispadne zombi, nije dosta što će brat da mu za konačni showdown izađe iz dungeona kao uber frankenštajn nego treba i da posle umre na Sansinim rukama dok mu ona peva pesmicu.  

Еурона? Мислиш на Јурона и тако те? Читаш у оргиналу, or what?
А ово друго тек нисам сконтао, сем да се можда мисли на Џејмибоја и "Вражићка"...

Da, mislim na Eurona i ekipu naprasno vojno ojačalu i sa magičnim oružjem umesto da se dragocen prostor posveti Theonu. U originalu, imao sam sreću da me domaći prevod mimoiđe ako izuzmemo prelistavanje tako da ne znam šta mu dođe Vražićko ali ću svakako pročitati poslednju knjigu na srpskom ako Martin poživi da nam podari finalni duel između ala i bauka.  

[Savajat Erp]

Тирион Ланистер зв. Баук, а у хрватском преводу Tirion Lanister zv. Vražićak, пошто сам имао ту чест да други део читам преко компа и са њи`овим преводом.

[angel011]

Vražićak? To zvuči slatko, što je potpuno neodgovarajuće za lika čijeg se izgleda gade.

[Savajat Erp]

како ли је у оргиналу? а баш сам обрисао све оргиналне варзије са компа...

[Mme Chauchat]

Srpski prevod je uglavnom odličan, po meni. "Čardak šumski"...   Nisam ni poželela da saznam kako je u originalu.

[angel011]

како ли је у оргиналу? а баш сам обрисао све оргиналне варзије са компа...

The Imp.

U principu, Vražićak nije pogrešan prevod za Imp, ali u ovom slučaju ne odgovara.

[Savajat Erp]

The Imp?! Признајем да први пут чујем за такав израз...сваки дан сазнаш нешто ново.

[angel011]

"Demončić" bi bio bukvalan prevod na srpski.

[cutter]

Savajate, vidi se da nisi igrao Dungeon Keeper.

[Melkor]

This post and thread is an attempt to put together the 'factual' history (i.e. of the writing of the series) of A Song of Ice and Fire, something I know has been mooted a few times. I dare say this initial post will be much-edited as we get more info and refine things, but this is, as a rough overview, how things have gone down.

Long Ago

George RR Martin collected toy knights and castles as a child, upgrading to more professional models as he got older. Some of his earliest stories and attempts at fiction in a fantasy world resulted in names that any ASoIaF fan will find familiar: Prince R'hllor of Raugg and his boisterous, swaggering companion, Argilac the Arrogant were the heroes of a story called Dark Gods of Kor-Yuban (never published). In a planned but never-written sequel, Argilac teams up with Barron, the Bloody Blade of the Dothrak Empire, to slay the winged demons who killed Barron's grandfather, Barristan the Bold.

Years later, GRRM reused some of these names in his fantasy series: R'hllor is, of course, the red god of Essos; Argilac the Arrogant was the last Storm King slain by Orys Baratheon during Aegon's Conquest; the Dothrak Empire obviously was recast as the Dothraki khalasars; and Barristan the Bold transformed into Ser Barristan Selmy of the Kingsguard. More on this can be found in GRRM's essay, 'The Heirs of Turtle Castle', in Dreamsongs.

Career Divergence

In 1983 George RR Martin was a successful author, thanks to the immense success of Fevre Dream, a horror novel about vampires on the Mississippi after the American Civil War. In that year he published The Armageddon Rag, his next novel, about a rock band called the Nazgul and fantastical events surrounding their attempt to reform for a new tour. Whilst very well reviewed and nominated for major awards, the novel bombed commercially and Martin felt that it had almost killed his literary career. He abandoned work on his novel-in-progress, Black and White and Red All Over (the extant material can be found in his collection Quartet) and ended up working in Hollywood, on The New Twilight Zone (1985-89; Martin worked on the first two seasons). In 1987 he moved to Beauty and the Beast, an urban fantasy series set in New York, and worked as a producer, scriptwriter and script editor. He worked on all three seasons of the show before it was cancelled in early 1990.

Whilst working in Hollywood, Martin kept his hand in with fiction, publishing Tuf Voyaging (a fix-up novel of previously-published short stories and novellas, with some new material) in 1986 and beginning the Wild Cards series of 'mosaic novels' (short stories by different authors held together by a tight continuity) in 1987. These works sold quite well, with Wild Cards going on to become a major success, restoring Martin's reputation in the literary SF world.

A Beheading

After Beauty and the Beast's cancellation Martin worked on some pilots and other projects which never made it to the screen. Feeling frustrated creatively in Hollywood (despite being well-paid), Martin returned home to Santa Fe to work on a new novel, Avalon, an epic SF book set in his 'Thousand Worlds' mileu. In 1991, whilst work on Avalon was proceeding satisfactorily, Martin was suddenly struck by the image of a man being beheaded whilst a young boy watched. He wrote the scene and found it expanding into a second chapter and then a third. He was initially unsure if this new work was a short story, a novella, a novel or possibly even more than that. He ended up writing over 100 manuscript pages before he received a telephone call from Hollywood: a pilot script he had been working on, Doorways, had been put into development by the studio.

Abandoning work on the new book, Martin decamped to Hollywood to work on the Doorways project for about two years. During this time he found himself thinking about the story, wondering what Tyrion Lannister's story was going to be whilst attending casting sessions and so on. After Doorway's pilot failed to impress the networks, he returned to Santa Fe in 1993 and resumed work on the book. For a time he considered writing a book set in a fictional world but with no fantastical elements. He reconsidered after a talk with his friend and colleague Phyllis Eisenstein, who urged him to 'put the dragons in' and make it a broad, sweeping fantasy epic. By this time he had decided that the series was going to be a trilogy called A Song of Ice and Fire, consisting of the novels A Game of Thrones, A Dance with Dragons and The Winds of Winter. His agent began shopping the project around and it sold to Bantam in the USA and, after a fierce bidding war, to HarperCollins in the UK for the impressive sum of £450,000 (over $600,000 at the time).

Expanding the Series and Splitting Books

By late 1995 or early 1996, A Game of Thrones had ballooned into a massive novel, more than 1,200 manuscript pages in length. Martin had planned to end the first book with an event called the 'Red Wedding' but he was barely halfway there. He extracted 1,088 manuscript pages, climaxing at a dramatically-satisfying point and delivered it to his publishers. He now believed that the series would be four books in length, with the second half of AGoT now dubbed A Clash of Kings. He resumed work on ACoK whilst AGoT was published in the UK and USA in August 1996 to a reasonably strong reception. In the UK HarperCollins Voyager previewed the book with a free 100-page extract of the novel, whilst in America the Daenerys chapters were condensed into a novella called Blood of the Dragon, which went on to win a Hugo Award in 1997.

Whilst work on A Clash of Kings proceeded, Martin was asked to submit a story to Robert Silverberg's Legends collection. He agreed, penning a story set much earlier in the history of Westeros called The Hedge Knight. By this time Martin realised that the story he was telling was much bigger than he first realised. Pausing briefly, he penned a rough outline which convinced him that A Clash of Kings was also going to be two books, and The Winds of Winter was going to be two as well. He also envisaged a 'five-year gap' between the two halves of the story to help the children and dragons age and grow up.

When Legends was published in early 1998, the introduction noted that A Song of Ice and Fire was now a six-book series consisting of A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, A Dance with Dragons, The Winds of Winter and A Time For Wolves. A Clash of Kings followed and was published in October 1998 in the UK and in the USA in February 1999. Once again, Martin had a lot more manuscript pages written, including a lot of Tyrion's story for the following story, and this gave him a head start on the third book. He completed A Storm of Swords in late April 2000. By this time, the sales of the series had reached the point where the publishers were prepared to 'rush' the book out: the UK edition hit the shelves just three months later in July, whilst the American edition followed in November, hitting the lower reaches of the New York Times bestseller list.

The Five-Year Gap

Martin begun work on A Dance with Dragons in earnest towards the end of 2000. As planned, the story picked up five years after the events of A Storm of Swords. Initially, this approach worked well, with the younger characters now older and more realistically capable of handling their new storylines. However, as the writing wore on Martin found a growing reliance on flashbacks and exposition to explain why certain ongoing storylines had not progressed for half a decade. By the middle of 2001 this tendency appears to have overtaken the book, making the worth of the five-year-gap questionable. Finally, in September 2001 Martin announced that he had completely scrapped and deleted all of the material he had worked on in the preceding year and started again from scratch with a new book, A Feast for Crows.

Work on A Feast for Crows continued for the next three and a half years but was plagued by problems. Martin attempted a new prologue structure which touched base with many 'lesser' characters from Dorne and the Iron Islands rather than just being from one POV. This got far too long and was eventually broken up into a series of smaller chapters scattered through the books. Martin also found that whilst 'filling in the gap' worked well for some characters, such as Brienne, Cersei, Jaime, Sansa and Arya, it did not work out so well for others, such as Tyrion, Daenerys and Jon, who seemed to be ready to move into their next storylines (i.e. the ones planned for A Dance with Dragons) immediately. This introduced timeline problems as the storylines for the two sets of characters threatened to get out of synch with one another.

By May 2005, with the novel almost three years overdue, A Feast for Crows had ballooned to over 1,600 manuscript pages in length. Martin had completed several character arcs, but many of the others only had small amounts of material written for them, or were incomplete. After discussing the situation with his friend and occasional writing partner Daniel Abraham, Martin decided to separate the characters by location, as this also corresponded with the characters whose storylines were complete and those who were not. Characters in the south of Westeros and a few others remained in A Feast for Crows, which comprised 1,100 manuscript pages, and the characters in the North and in Essos were moved into the next book, which now had almost 550 manuscript pages completed for it. Rather than split A Feast for Crows in two, Martin decided that the next book in the series would remain entitled A Dance with Dragons, suggesting that he hoped to combine the originally-planned events for that novel with the 'flipside' of events in A Feast for Crows. A Feast for Crows was delivered in May 2005 and published in the UK in October 2005, and a month later in the United States.

Dancing in the Dark

Martin's original plan - as outlined in the now-infamous 'Note' at the end of A Feast for Crows - was that the 550 manuscript pages he had held back for A Dance with Dragons would remain unchanged and an additional 500-600 manuscript pages would be required to bring the novel to completion. Using the writing speed he achieved at the end of A Feast for Crows (when he wrote 300 MS pages in about six months), he estimated it would take approximately one year to complete the novel.

However, this plan proved to be optimistic from the start. After delivering the book, Martin's publishers requested that, after the lengthy gap since ASoS, he take part in the most ambitious signing tour for the series seen yet, including numerous dates across the United States, Canada and the United Kingdom stripped over a period of six months. Once he returned to work on A Dance with Dragons in early 2006 he appeared to reconsider his previous plans for the book, reporting on changes requiring the rewriting of much of the extant material he had left over from A Feast for Crows. The plans for A Dance with Dragons also grew more ambitious: the book was now going to expand substantially beyond the timeline of A Feast for Crows and hopefully further the stories of characters left on cliffhanger endings in that book. This also introduced fresh timeline complexities to the book that Martin found difficult to resolve.

Work proceeded slowly and frustratingly on the novel in this period, with Martin later admitting to periods of pressure and stress, both from outside sources and from his own growing perfectionism. However, there was also good news: in early 2007 the television company HBO optioned the rights to the series. In late 2009 they produced a one-hour pilot based on the series, and over the second half of 2010 filmed a ten-episode full season based on A Game of Thrones, with Martin acting as a consultant and penning one episode. Work on Dragons continued through this period.

In early 2010 Martin confirmed that A Dance with Dragons' structure was now more ambitious than originally planned: the first half of the book would run alongside A Feast for Crows and the second half would take place after and incorporate a number of additional POV characters from the previous novel as well. The book was substantially larger than first planned as well, with over 1,300 MS pages completed at that time. By the end of the year some reports from the publishers and editors placed the book at 1,500 pages, close to the length of A Storm of Swords. After a flurry of activity in late December 2010 and early January 2011 Martin reported he was finally very close to delivering the novel.

After A Dance with Dragons two further novels are projected to bring the series to a close: The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring (formerly A Time for Wolves).

[Mme Chauchat]

Još da znamo šta je ovde "very close"...

[Melkor]

"Demončić" bi bio bukvalan prevod na srpski.

Najblizi moguci, demoncic je genericki naziv, impovi su konkretna vrsta 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imp

Treba samo videti koliko suptilnosti se izgubi samo u prevodu jednog nadimka...

[Nightflier]

Samo se zalažem da ne zbrza ono što je pokrenuo. Mada bih mu ja bio zahvalan da Eurona i vikinge više ne pominje. A najbolje da će i Šandor da ispadne zombi, nije dosta što će brat da mu za konačni showdown izađe iz dungeona kao uber frankenštajn nego treba i da posle umre na Sansinim rukama dok mu ona peva pesmicu. 

Еурона? Мислиш на Јурона и тако те? Читаш у оргиналу, or what?
А ово друго тек нисам сконтао, сем да се можда мисли на Џејмибоја и "Вражићка"...

NE SERI da je JURON?????

[Savajat Erp]

Јурон Вранооки, главом и брадом! Значи и ти му га дајеш по оргиналу?

[Nightflier]

Јурон Вранооки, главом и брадом! Значи и ти му га дајеш по оргиналу?

Pisao sam o tome i ranije. Nisam pobornik držanja za englesku transkripciju kao pijan za plot, zato što ti ljudi nisu Englezi, ne govore engleskim jezikom, niti njime pišu. Po analogiji, Hamlet bi trebalo da je Hejmlet. Kada se prevodi fantastika, najbolje je da se transkribuje kao sa latinskog.

[Savajat Erp]

Што би значило шта? Да би требао да остане Еурон? (што стварно боље звучи, без обзира како се чита на енглеском, а не чита се Јурон сигурно) Како би ти нпр. превео Euron Crow's Eye?

[Nightflier]

Што би значило шта? Да би требао да остане Еурон? (што стварно боље звучи, без обзира како се чита на енглеском, а не чита се Јурон сигурно) Како би ти нпр. превео Euron Crow's Eye?

Euron bi ostalo Euron u svakom slučaju, mada bih morao da se svađam sa lektorima na krv i na nož da bih to postigao. Crow's Eye - ne znam. Iskren da budem, uopšte ga se ne sećam, pa ne znam ni kako je dobio nadimak ni zašto. Evo ti primera: U "Gospodaru prstenova" Gandalfa zovu "Vranolujni" - na engleskom Storm Crow. Kod nas je prevedeno kao "Vranolujni", ali to zapravo znači "nosilac loših vesti", dakle - Zloguk. Nikakve veze sa vranama nema na srpskom. Najpre bih proverio da li Crow's Eye ima neko svoje značenje, pa ako nema - gledao bih šta bih tada radio.

S tim - da se razumemo - ne kritikujem Pajvančićev rad. Ne slažem se sa nasilnom transkripcijom u fantastici, ali za to su pre odgovorni lektori nego on. To što bih ja uradio nešto drugačije od njega sasvim je prirodno. Prevođenje je primenjena umetnost, ali ipak jeste umetnost i nema dva prevodioca koji na jednu stvar isto gledaju.

[Alex]

Dobre su korice (ilustracije) Laguninih izdanja. Uvek može bolje, ali i ovako ništa ne fali.

[Nightflier]

Samo su preuzeli originalne ilustracije. Doduše, i tih originalnih ima nekoliko, ali ove su zaista dobro probrane.

[Alex]

Samo su preuzeli originalne ilustracije. Doduše, i tih originalnih ima nekoliko, ali ove su zaista dobro probrane.

Pa da. Moj komentar je bio na komentare sa druge strane ovog topika, kako knjige izgledaju užasno i odbijajuće.

[Nightflier]

Ja sam inače shvatio da više nemam Martina u originalu i sada gledam da kupim jedan komplet u HC i jedan u PB, za pozajmljivanje, pa sam shvatio da nigde nema da se kupi izdanje sa pristojnim ilustracijama. Sve što ima su sa tipskim motivima pehara, krune i tome slično.

[Melkor]

Nista mi se ne svidja, ni USA ni UK korice, o tie-in da i ne pricam. Sacekacu neko pristojno izdanje, recimo za 10 godina cekanja na nastavak ili tako nesto.

[Nightflier]

Naslovnica za francusko izdanje prve knjige je veoma lepa:



A što se ostalih tiče, verovali ili ne, naša izdanja još i najlepše izgledaju. Voleo bih da "Tor" pokrene neku prodaju zvaničnih elektronskih izdanja, pa da urade redizajn, kao za WoT.

[Melkor]

Hmm, da, sa francuskim bih i mogao da zivim.

[Melkor]

E, da, to mi stvarno nije jasno, jedno od epskijih dela "epske fantastike" i useru ga ogavnim pakovanjem. A nije da ti isti izdavaci nisu u stanju da nas obraduju lepim, cool naslovnicama. Jos uvek nemam nijednu ASOIAF knjigu, sve cekam neku, bar, pristojnu varijantu.

[Nightflier]

Uzdam se u silne ilustracije rađene za kalendare na temu PLIV. Valjda će nešto od toga da iskoriste za izdanje povodom dvadesetogodišnjice prve knjige. Recimo nešto što je radio moj trenutno omiljeni ilustrator, Majkl Komark.

Ned Stark:



Jon Snou:

[Nightflier]

Sersei:

[elSaik]

To je portugalski gore. Tj. brazilsko izdanje.

[Nightflier]

To je portugalski gore. Tj. brazilsko izdanje.

Jeste, ali uzeli su ilustraciju franscuskog izdanja.

[Melkor]

A Game of Thrones: Genesis Coming Soon

Fans of George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series will soon have another way to kill some time as they wait for the fifth book to be published.

A Game of Thrones: Genesis is a real-time strategy game for PCs with single player and multiplayer campaigns that let you pick a faction and battle for the Irone Throne of Westeros. Others from the frozen North, dragons from the east, and powerful fleets moving across the Western seas meet and clash as you use diplomacy, connivance, and economic might to build the best army in the Seven Kingdoms. If anything, it offers a way for fans to play out years of end-game scenario speculation, if not offering them what they want the most—further adventures with their favorite characters.

As with A Dance of Dragons, there's no hard release date, but it's scheduled for Summer 2011. Visit Cynide's website to sign up for the latest news.

Ah, da... Martin se ozenio

[zakk]

Slike, iskusne slike!, kod Martina na blogu:

http://grrm.livejournal.com/196160.html

[aenimax]

Game Of Thrones: An Invitation To Westeros (HBO)

evo pozivnice za vesteros - and everyone's invited